Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1368 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #41011 of 41039 Old 08-01-2016, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dcbii View Post
Is this because deep color on the 83 is not really related to deep color on the TV? I'm guessing RGB will work fine, but I'm curious if I should need to use that. Maybe it's just time to put the 83 out to pasture with my daughter who only has a 1080p TV. She wants a region-settable BD player (it has a JVB kit) anyway.
Ok so here's the thing, Deep Colour on Standard BluRay is not the Same as Deep Colour for 4k - in 4k land it's known as HDR10 (10 Bit Colour encoding) and uses the DCI-P3 Color Space unlike the old Deep Colour which is still only 8 Bit but uses better (less lossy) RGB encoding YUV 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:0 (with the standard HD REC.709 colour space).

DCI-P3 as a result is a much wider colour space (90% of visible light spectrum) and the two are not "compatible" hence your issues (almost nothing ever supported the old Deep Colour Standard).
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post #41012 of 41039 Old 08-01-2016, 06:20 PM
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Deep color vs not-so-deep color

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Originally Posted by djos View Post
Ok so here's the thing, Deep Colour on Standard BluRay is not the Same as Deep Colour for 4k - in 4k land it's known as HDR10 (10 Bit Colour encoding) and uses the DCI-P3 Color Space unlike the old Deep Colour which is still only 8 Bit but uses better (less lossy) RGB encoding YUV 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:0 (with the standard HD REC.709 colour space).

DCI-P3 as a result is a much wider colour space (90% of visible light spectrum) and the two are not "compatible" hence your issues (almost nothing ever supported the old Deep Colour Standard).
OK, that sounds like what I suspected. So in that case, I *should* leave the 83's deep color option off. That makes sense to me. With the color space, if the 4K TV is using something other than REC.709, would it make sense then that when I use the YCbCr colors on the 83, I get the pink or orange screen, but when I use RGB, it looks normal?

Thanks for the explanation!

Dave Barnhart

Oppo BDP-103D, Denon X4200W, LG 55EF9500
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post #41013 of 41039 Old 08-01-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dcbii View Post
OK, that sounds like what I suspected. So in that case, I *should* leave the 83's deep color option off. That makes sense to me. With the color space, if the 4K TV is using something other than REC.709, would it make sense then that when I use the YCbCr colors on the 83, I get the pink or orange screen, but when I use RGB, it looks normal?

Thanks for the explanation!
Yep, Turning off Deep Colour on your 83 is the best option - no BD's ever supported it AIUI.

My pleasure.

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post #41014 of 41039 Old 08-01-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dcbii View Post
With the color space, if the 4K TV is using something other than REC.709, would it make sense then that when I use the YCbCr colors on the 83, I get the pink or orange screen, but when I use RGB, it looks normal?
So the weird colours is the TV confusing YUV (aka YCbCr) for RGB (or vice a versa) and that results in the Pink colours.

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post #41015 of 41039 Old 08-01-2016, 06:44 PM
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So the weird colours is the TV confusing YUV (aka YCbCr) for RGB (or vice a versa) and that results in the Pink colours.
Yes, I thought that was odd. If the TV's HDMI interface keeps UHD Deep Color on, which I intend to do to be able to use HDR from my Shield TV, I found I have to use RGB on the 83 instead of YCbCr. Not sure why the TV is getting confused with what the 83 is outputting, but it seems to work OK.

Dave Barnhart

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post #41016 of 41039 Old 08-02-2016, 02:26 PM
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From my experience with the BDP-83 and "Deep Color," I am running a pretty old Sony SXRD rear projection display, and OPPO has always instructed me to keep Deep Color on 36-Bits so the internal processing "can be maximized" even if the final signal will yield 30-Bit...

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post #41017 of 41039 Old 08-02-2016, 02:47 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]

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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
From my experience with the BDP-83 and "Deep Color," I am running a pretty old Sony SXRD rear projection display, and OPPO has always instructed me to keep Deep Color on 36-Bits so the internal processing "can be maximized" even if the final signal will yield 30-Bit...


Deep color isn't 36 bit, it's still 24 bit but with less chroma subsampling on each RGB channel e.g. 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4 for DC. HD Blu-Ray disks all use 4:2:0 so there's no benefit to enabling DC at all.

Edit got my wires crossed, that should be deep color is 30 bit not 24 bit. It's still pointless as there are no deep color HD Blu-Ray discs.

By enabling deep color your Blu-Ray player has to perform chroma upsampling and bit depth interpolation so it's better left off.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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post #41018 of 41039 Old 08-02-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by djos View Post
Deep color isn't 36 bit, it's still 24 bit but with less chroma subsampling on each RGB channel e.g. 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4 for DC. HD Blu-Ray disks all use 4:2:0 so there's no benefit to enabling DC at all.

Edit got my wires crossed, that should be deep color is 30 bit not 24 bit. It's still pointless as there are no deep color HD Blu-Ray discs.

By enabling deep color your Blu-Ray player has to perform chroma upsampling and bit depth interpolation so it's better left off.
OPPO has sent me COUNTLESS emails in a conversation I had with them YEARS back regarding definitely keeping my Deep Color set to "36 Bit" and my Color Space set to "4:4:4" (as this is the native color space my Sony display samples at) because the VRS would be operating "more effectively" or something to that effect; I haven't changed it since and everything looks fine.

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post #41019 of 41039 Old 08-02-2016, 06:00 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]

Even 4k HDR TV's are only 10 bit panels so I'd be shocked if your Sony was a true 12 bit display.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
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post #41020 of 41039 Old 08-04-2016, 10:47 AM
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BDP-83 deep color

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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
OPPO has sent me COUNTLESS emails in a conversation I had with them YEARS back regarding definitely keeping my Deep Color set to "36 Bit" and my Color Space set to "4:4:4" (as this is the native color space my Sony display samples at) because the VRS would be operating "more effectively" or something to that effect; I haven't changed it since and everything looks fine.
When I first bought the BDP-83, I had a Sony television that "supported" x.v.Color (xvYCC) which was supposed to be "compatible" with (or at least work with) deep color, even though it was not the same. Obviously I really understood nothing at the time about these issues, and no matter how I set the Oppo's deep color settings, 36-bit, 30-bit dithered, off, etc., I couldn't see a difference in the picture on the Sony TV, but at least I never had HDMI-sync issues.

With my new LG TV, the Oppo flat out won't sync with the LG in 10-bit mode (UHD Deep Color) if the Oppo deep color is set to anything other than off or off(dithered). Further, the TV displays wrong colors if I use any YCbCr color space on the 83, though the colors displayed are different for the different color spaces. Both RGB PC and video appear to work, so for now I've left it set to RGB video, and the TV seems to display this OK, though I don't know if it's optimal. I didn't have to change any of these settings if the TV was not in 10-bit mode. So clearly, whatever the BDP-83 is outputting, the LG doesn't like it, where it doesn't seem to have issues with newer devices like the BDP-103D.

So for me, I currently can't leave Deep Color settings on for the BDP-83, even if Oppo recommends it, but it's really only a secondary device now anyway. I still do prefer the ABT chipset in the 83 for the foreign DVDs I have, though (not measured, just an impression).

Suffice it to say I find the whole "deep color" terminology less than helpful, especially when LG is now using it in a different sense.

Dave Barnhart

Oppo BDP-103D, Denon X4200W, LG 55EF9500

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post #41021 of 41039 Old 08-08-2016, 04:57 PM
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I agree that the whole Deep Color (and maybe Color Space, too) thing is irrelevant especially when we're discussing older gear like my Sony SXRD display, but I am merely reporting what OPPO instructed me to do with my equipment and what settings to leave the BDP-83 on...and I made it perfectly clear to them what kind of display I was using. I just leave the Deep Color on 36 Bits and Color Space to 4:4:4, and nothing seems to me amiss.

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post #41022 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I agree that the whole Deep Color (and maybe Color Space, too) thing is irrelevant especially when we're discussing older gear like my Sony SXRD display, but I am merely reporting what OPPO instructed me to do with my equipment and what settings to leave the BDP-83 on...and I made it perfectly clear to them what kind of display I was using. I just leave the Deep Color on 36 Bits and Color Space to 4:4:4, and nothing seems to me amiss.
I have Darbee in my display path which causes issue with Deep Color. When I did not use Darbee, I set Deep Color to 36 Bits and never had an issue from my BDP83 through my Marantz pre pro to an Epson Pro 1080 and now Epson 5030. When I place the Darbee in the path, the output color gets screwed up, whether 36 or 30 bit. Since I never really seen a difference with Deep Color on or off, I rather use my Darbee for the improvement it gives me on my screen.
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post #41023 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 04:44 PM
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I have Darbee in my display path which causes issue with Deep Color. When I did not use Darbee, I set Deep Color to 36 Bits and never had an issue from my BDP83 through my Marantz pre pro to an Epson Pro 1080 and now Epson 5030. When I place the Darbee in the path, the output color gets screwed up, whether 36 or 30 bit. Since I never really seen a difference with Deep Color on or off, I rather use my Darbee for the improvement it gives me on my screen.
Interesting; well, I'm just going by what OPPO instructed ME to do given MY particular gear chain...I haven't had an issue with screwed up colors or any other visual bugaboo.

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post #41024 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 06:32 PM
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Interesting; well, I'm just going by what OPPO instructed ME to do given MY particular gear chain...I haven't had an issue with screwed up colors or any other visual bugaboo.
I'm really at a loss to why they'd say that, it's like upscaling, you only do it if there is a benefit. Here's an analogy along those lines:

You have a TV that is 1080p but can accept 4k, you have a HD BD player that can upscale to 4k, you set it to upscale 1080p to 4k, your TV then downscales the 4k pictures to 1080p t display them.

So you are creating extra picture information that isnt in the source and your TV is 1080p, so throws away the extra information making it a pointless exercise.

It's no different from upconverting BD's encoded at 8 bit 4:2:0 to 10 bit 4:4:4 and then your 8 bit TV throws away all the extra info it cant use. You are actually likely introduce errors in this process or at the very least achieve precisely ZERO benefit.

I'm a huge Oppo fan, but their advice is not helpful in this instance.

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post #41025 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 07:07 PM
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I'm really at a loss to why they'd say that, it's like upscaling, you only do it if there is a benefit. Here's an analogy along those lines:

You have a TV that is 1080p but can accept 4k, you have a HD BD player that can upscale to 4k, you set it to upscale 1080p to 4k, your TV then downscales the 4k pictures to 1080p t display them.

So you are creating extra picture information that isnt in the source and your TV is 1080p, so throws away the extra information making it a pointless exercise.

It's no different from upconverting BD's encoded at 8 bit 4:2:0 to 10 bit 4:4:4 and then your 8 bit TV throws away all the extra info it cant use. You are actually likely introduce errors in this process or at the very least achieve precisely ZERO benefit.

I'm a huge Oppo fan, but their advice is not helpful in this instance.
I'll try to dig up the exact email conversations (I have them saved) I had with their rep at the time -- you may not think their "advice is helpful in this instance," but the way it was explained to me had something to do with the fashion in which the VRS processor INTERNALLY would be operating in a more "enhanced mode"...regardless of the fact that the final signal would still be 30-bit.

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post #41026 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 07:17 PM
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Okay.

Here are portions of the conversations I had with OPPO -- cut and pasted WORD FOR WORD without any editing on my behalf -- regarding the settings (this goes back to when the player was BRAND NEW):

We would recommend setting the player to 1080p/60Hz explicit and not Auto.

Set your Deep Color to 36-bit and ColorSpace to YCbCr 4:4:4 under Video Setup->HDMI. Leave De-Interlacing at Auto.

Set Primary Output to HDMI.

Ensure that your receiver is not set to do any video processing.

Disable any Motion or Cinemotion controls on your television.


and...

Yes, the use of YCbCr 4:4:4 is confirmed for your television.


and...

Deep Color 36-bit is your best option. You will only use the DITHERED options if you are seeing excessive banding when playing DVD media.


and...

Incorrect colorspace selection or handshakes will cause visual errors. You want to force a colorspace in order to ensure that you are not adding additional processing or incorrect processing.


HERE'S where they began to go into specifics about their recommendations:

Deep Color processing can still be useful even on a television which does not support it. The reason is that the internal video processing is now done at a higher rate than if you had had it disabled. Please try enabling Deep Color 36-bit.


and...

The correct colorspace to use is determined by the native colorspace of your television. Your Sony natively samples at YCbCr 4:4:4.


and...

Enabling Deep Color will increase the sampling rate on the VRS internally, even if the final signal will still be 30-bit. This is why we are having you use Deep Color, as it will increase the picture accuracy.


and after I CONTINUED to ask them to confirm if 36-Bit was the best setting for MY setup, they said:

Yes, you will want to keep the player at 36-bit for Deep Color.


There are more I can dig up...

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post #41027 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I'll try to dig up the exact email conversations (I have them saved) I had with their rep at the time -- you may not think their "advice is helpful in this instance," but the way it was explained to me had something to do with the fashion in which the VRS processor INTERNALLY would be operating in a more "enhanced mode"...regardless of the fact that the final signal would still be 30-bit.



Further, I don't understand where you're getting the whole "my TV can accept 4K" thing from -- it most certainly cannot, as I am using a KDS-50A2020 rear projection display which is a 1080p native screen (unless you meant something else by your statement).

The 4K input to 1080p TV was an analogy.

As for Oppo's advice to use Deep Color, I could understand if you're actually using the VRS picture controls to make adjustments. There could be a mathematical benefit to having more bits to play with when you make large adjustments. However if you are like most people and keep everything at default (mid point) or use Pure Direct mode then there is no math to be performed, and you're just padding the signal with extra zeroes.

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post #41028 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 07:27 PM
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The 4K input to 1080p TV was an analogy.
Yes, I realized that after I posted; I since edited my response. I'd appreciate it if you could edit it in your quote, as well.

Quote:
As for Oppo's advice to use Deep Color, I could understand if you're actually using the VRS picture controls to make adjustments. There could be a mathematical benefit to having more bits to play with when you make large adjustments. However if you are like most people and keep everything at default (mid point) or use Pure Direct mode then there is no math to be performed, and you're just padding the signal with extra zeroes.
I do use the VRS controls for at least one adjustment -- the Noise Reduction, which I keep on "+4" per OPPO's recommendations, as well, and based on what I told them I'm seeking in noise reduction capabilities. At any rate, I provided samples of the email conversation I had with them in a previous post (their responses only)...

5.1: ONKYO TX-SR605B - oppo BDP-83 - SONY KDS-50A2020 SXRD
Mains: polkaudio RTi12 - Center: polkaudio CSi30 - Surrounds: SpeakerCraft Preinstalled In-Ceiling - Sub: polkaudio PSW350 - Auralex Acoustics SubDude - MONSTER PowerCenter HT700
2-CHANNEL:
ONKYO TX-8555 - marantz CC4001 - TASCAM CD-RW900SL PROFESSIONAL - Numark CDMIX 1 PROFESSIONAL
Infinity BY HARMAN PRIMUS P363BK - audio-technica AT-LP120-USB PROFESSIONAL -
Bell'O AT423T Audio Tower

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post #41029 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 07:59 PM
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I do use the VRS controls for at least one adjustment -- the Noise Reduction, which I keep on "+4" per OPPO's recommendations, as well, and based on what I told them I'm seeking in noise reduction capabilities. At any rate, I provided samples of the email conversation I had with them in a previous post (their responses only)...
Noise reduction imo wont benefit from upconverting to 4:4:4 colour encoding, if anything upconverting to 4:4:4 may increase noise.

The fact that your TV can handle 4:4:4 is really only relevant if you are using it for PC gaming where the video card is actually generating the video signal on the fly so it's native 4:4:4 to start with ... all imo of course.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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post #41030 of 41039 Old 08-09-2016, 08:22 PM
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Noise reduction imo wont benefit from upconverting to 4:4:4 colour encoding, if anything upconverting to 4:4:4 may increase noise.

The fact that your TV can handle 4:4:4 is really only relevant if you are using it for PC gaming where the video card is actually generating the video signal on the fly so it's native 4:4:4 to start with ... all imo of course.
As I stated, these were the precise suggestions given to me from a company rep, and that's what I use without issue.

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post #41031 of 41039 Old 09-20-2016, 11:49 PM
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The last I heard from Oppo Support on the The Force Awakens audio issue was this on August 8th:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppo Support
Unfortunately there is still no resolution to your observations. Active development for software on this player has ceased from the decoder manufacturer, so if we find that a SDK revision would need to become available to fix this issue, then we will not be able to issue a firmware to address the missing channels for this film.
So, it will be a very pleasant surprise if this actually happens.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #41032 of 41039 Old 09-22-2016, 12:49 PM
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I got a LG 4K OLED HDTV a couple of days ago that has HDR. I had turned on Deep Color on the correct HDMI input. Today I was installing my new receiver and various audio/video devices including my Oppo BDP-83. I noticed a Deep Color setting so I turned on 36 bit to see what it did. Well, it did something my LG TV doesn't like at all. I get an "invalid format" warning and now I can't see the video output from my Oppo Blu-Ray player. I can't see what I'm doing in the setup menu so I can't reset to factory defaults.

Is there another way to reset the player? Or could someone write down EXACTLY what buttons I need to press on my remote?
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post #41033 of 41039 Old 09-22-2016, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymmv99 View Post
I got a LG 4K OLED HDTV a couple of days ago that has HDR. I had turned on Deep Color on the correct HDMI input. Today I was installing my new receiver and various audio/video devices including my Oppo BDP-83. I noticed a Deep Color setting so I turned on 36 bit to see what it did. Well, it did something my LG TV doesn't like at all. I get an "invalid format" warning and now I can't see the video output from my Oppo Blu-Ray player. I can't see what I'm doing in the setup menu so I can't reset to factory defaults.

Is there another way to reset the player? Or could someone write down EXACTLY what buttons I need to press on my remote?
Does the LG 4K HDTV have a component or composite video input connectors? If so, you can connect the Oppo that way to see the menu, then change your Deep Color setting back.
Good luck!
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post #41034 of 41039 Old 09-22-2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymmv99 View Post
I got a LG 4K OLED HDTV a couple of days ago that has HDR. I had turned on Deep Color on the correct HDMI input. Today I was installing my new receiver and various audio/video devices including my Oppo BDP-83. I noticed a Deep Color setting so I turned on 36 bit to see what it did. Well, it did something my LG TV doesn't like at all. I get an "invalid format" warning and now I can't see the video output from my Oppo Blu-Ray player. I can't see what I'm doing in the setup menu so I can't reset to factory defaults.

Is there another way to reset the player? Or could someone write down EXACTLY what buttons I need to press on my remote?
Welcome to AVSForum.

Do the Setup options show on the player front panel? You can sometimes do limited navigation that way, but forget how the -83 behaves.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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post #41035 of 41039 Old 09-22-2016, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymmv99 View Post
I got a LG 4K OLED HDTV a couple of days ago that has HDR. I had turned on Deep Color on the correct HDMI input. Today I was installing my new receiver and various audio/video devices including my Oppo BDP-83. I noticed a Deep Color setting so I turned on 36 bit to see what it did. Well, it did something my LG TV doesn't like at all. I get an "invalid format" warning and now I can't see the video output from my Oppo Blu-Ray player. I can't see what I'm doing in the setup menu so I can't reset to factory defaults.

Is there another way to reset the player? Or could someone write down EXACTLY what buttons I need to press on my remote?
FROM THE FAQ -- Link at the top of the first post of this thread:
Press and Hold the Display, "i", button -- middle right on the Remote -- for about 15 seconds, then release it. This will reset the Video Output options (but not the Picture Adjustment settings).
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #41036 of 41039 Old 09-22-2016, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthemAZ.HDTV View Post
Does the LG 4K HDTV have a component or composite video input connectors? If so, you can connect the Oppo that way to see the menu, then change your Deep Color setting back.
Good luck!
This idea worked. All it took was a composite video cable and I was back in business.
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post #41037 of 41039 Old Yesterday, 11:57 PM
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Thermal Paste Replacement

I bought my 83SE in 2009 ie. 7 years ago. Will the Player require Thermal Paste Replacement for the heatsinks on the circuit board chipsets? The player seems to cause read errors and stuttering when the player gets warm. Maybe the processor chips are getting too hot.
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post #41038 of 41039 Old Today, 06:37 AM
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Have you ever had your loader replaced? This is a known issue that could cause stuttering too. Contact Oppo and ask them what they think, they usually respond in 1 day. Even if you need service, it's only 79.00
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post #41039 of 41039 Old Today, 08:24 AM
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^^^
Cleaning the lasers is the place to start with that.
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