Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 170 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Any idea what the mechanism behind glitches with Superbit and not (?as much) with other DVDs?

The only issue I'm aware of is with the menu display on Superbit discs with minimalist menus: those that have a vertical stack of buttons against the brushed-steel background. I think those are the titles with plain red disc art.

For those discs the menu displays briefly then goes black with a red selection rectangle. You can fix it with STOP + PLAY.

Some Superbits have more traditional menus that do not have the problem.

This bug was introduced in recent firmware and I suspect it will be fixed shortly.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

Any chance that you have the inside track on getting 1080p over component video and the new CODEC's over Toslink or 75ohm coax?

Component can handle 1080p, but it's not generally supported by either sources or displays. The bandwidth requirements for the new codecs (and for multichannel PCM) don't play well with coaxial or optical digital audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

I'll acknowledge that with eight RCA cables it could be done on the audio side, but the video is another can of tuna. If no video solution is in the pipeline, why kill HDMI?

He's saying to kill CEC, which is the method by which HDMI devices talk to each other. It's a very messy "convenience" feature that does more harm than good in many cases.

We're stuck with HDMI until the next new digital audio/video connection arrives (and likely with HDCP even after that), but it would be a delightful change of pace if both standards started thinking more about stability, reliability, and consistency than marketing buzzwords and protecting the studios. CEC is an example of the former gone horribly wrong...

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Old 03-27-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain
Die, HDMI CEC, Die!

-Bill



He said "Die, HDMI CEC, Die!" -- not HDCP.

Consumer Electronics Control (CEC)
High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Mike

I know, I was just venting
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Any idea what the mechanism behind glitches with Superbit and not (?as much) with other DVDs?


Just curious.

Mike

I'd say coincidental. There are non-Superbit DVDs with just as high a bit rate, or even higher, than Superbits. Superbits look like any other DVD to the hardware.

larry

I don't know Butchie instead
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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It is not related to Superbit per se, just the menu system that some Superbit discs use. If it uses the very plain brushed metal background, then you will likely run into the error with the menu options disappearing with the current firmware implementation.

Superbits which use a "normal" menu system do not have this issue.
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:29 AM
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The Oppo website states

Additional Media Formats - Additional disc and file formats, such as audio CD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD, AVCHD, MKV, and other audio/video/picture files on recorded discs or USB drives can be played back on the BDP-83.

What are other audio files? MP3 AIF etc?

tmoss
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmauceri View Post

The Oppo website states

Additional Media Formats - Additional disc and file formats, such as audio CD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD, AVCHD, MKV, and other audio/video/picture files on recorded discs or USB drives can be played back on the BDP-83.

What are other audio files? MP3 AIF etc?

See the FAQ: Media Files

-Bill

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Old 03-27-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

Anyone have issues with Quantum Of Solace BR locking up the player?

Played without problems.
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

If the occasional HDMI handshake glitch was to prevent a product from being sold to the public, no HDMI products would ever be sold. Lord knows there are products out there that can't seem to accomplish a correct handshake under any circumstances.

I think you're reading way too much into my comments.

I understand that this HDMI handshake issue was introduced in the latest firmware, so OPPO can presumably resolve it. ALL I'm saying is that until they get it back to where it was prior to this most recent firmware update I will not vote yes. That's all. I'm not saying it has to be perfect and work with every single combination of components. But based on feedback in this thread, a bunch of people have stumbled across this problem so far. If you were OPPO, would you want to release the player with the handshaking as it is now and get flooded with support calls from more typical customers who have no idea what's going on?

Until the BDP-83 entered into my system, I have not had a single HDMI handshake issue except with my HTPC, which was caused by a known issue with ATI video cards and is fixed with a Geffen DVI Detective and appears to have been resolved in ATI's latest drivers. I've got a pretty decent assortment of HDMI devices - Denon DVD-3930CI, XBox Elite, PS3, HTPC, 3 DirecTV HR21 Pro's, DirecTV HR10-250 (the original HD Tivo), Parasound zHD HDMI switcher, and formerly had an OPPO HM31 HDMI switcher. If they don't eventually fix the HDMI handshake issue for my particular combination of equipment, I could easily see myself returning the player for a refund and going with another option (most likely a Bluray player and then a 2nd player for everything else - possibly keeping my Denon DVD-3930CI). However, I know that Mark Rubin has been one of the beta testers and owns the same surround sound processor (Denon AVP-A1HDCI) - I don't recall him mentioning any handshake problems, so I'm pretty confident that OPPO will get the problem resolved.
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Joe,
The instructions on page 9 of the manual also say you have to open the disc tray before holding down Enter on the remote. It is done this way to reduce the chance you will accidentally change the remote code in the Blu-Ray player if you have another Oppo remote for another Oppo player and happen to get a little ham-fisted with its Enter button. (All Oppo players share the same code for Enter.)

----------------------------------------------------

On your image noise problem: Does the Oppo splash screen display properly when you Stop the disc?

Have you tried changing the output resolutions using the button on the lower left of the remote? 480p (not 480i) is the "simplest" resolution for HDMI to handle. If 480p works and, say, 1080p doesn't then the problem might be a marginal HDMI cable.

Also check your settings for 1080p/24 and HDMI Deep color. Try turning 1080p/24 OFF and Deep Color OFF. Either of these settings could cause the Oppo to send out video your display can't handle. And these wouldn't be available in the 983, so that may explain the difference you are seeing.
--Bob

Hi Bob,

I reread page 9 of the manual. It states: change the code in the remote to 2 or 3, have the player on with no disc playing, aim the remote and press enter for 5 seconds. No mention of having the tray open.

The splash screen shows the same noise pattern with a disc stopped or no disc in the player.

1080p/24 and deep color are off.

I tried all output resolutions that my 720p pj will accept. Tried 4 different HDMI cables. Ran direct to the pj. Problem is persistent.

That was last night. The player was unplugged for 10 hours. Fired it back up just now. Reset to factory default. Ran through all of the above again. No change.

On Wednesday everything was fine for the 3 or 4 hours I used the unit.

Time to give oppo a call.

Thanks everyone,

Joe
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHG View Post

Not to get off topic, but, the IR-ES1 is now available? I emailed them back in Sept. and got this reply:

Unfortunately we have not yet manufactured this product. Originally we had hoped to release the IR-ES1 with the HM-31 and DV-983H launches, but we have had manufacturing issues with this product.

Received an answer back from Oppo.

"The IR-ES1 has still not been manufactured."

I guess they must have some that were never released.

Well as I said, I emailed asking about purchasing an IR-ES1 for my BDP-83, and the reply I received stated I could have one for free with proof-of-purchase. I replied to that email, giving them the email address associated with the PayPal account used to purchase my BDP-83, and I received a reply that an IR Cable would be sent to me that afternoon.

So much media, so little time...

 

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Old 03-27-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

A few words about DVD 24P since there seems to be a lot of questions.

1) Very few displays correctly handle 24p input, and most still pull it down to 60 or some other derivative of 60. Unless your display is known to correctly handle 24p, there's not much to be gained from using it. While this is also true of BD 24p, that causes fewer playback issues since it's usually encoded at 24p.

2) Almost all DVDs will have some cadence errors and can cause blips, skips or image tearing which may or may not be noticeable or irritating to some viewers. DVDs are not mastered with 24FPS in mind. Some displays seem to show the errors more than others. Prolonged stuttering of the video is the worse case scenario. This can be corrected sometimes by pausing or rewinding.

3) Very few movies have much of the kind of panning, zooming and full-screen motion that 24p will tend to help display more smoothly. so the benefits of using it is limited at best.

4) Bottom line: unless you can demonstrate that your display correctly handles 24p, and that using 24p produces smoother motion, there's no point to having it turned on given the playback problems it can create. It's a nice marketing point, but in reality it's not much help and does nothing for actual image quality.

Well, my Pioneer Elite Pro-150FD does support 24 fps natively, and I can tell the difference during pans.

Right now I have an Onkyo 805 (like the Toshiba XA-2) which does a perfect job of playing DVDs with 24 fps output. Even some educational DVDs are shot on film. Only a few in my collection need to be 30 fps.

The Pioneer has an "Advanced" mode which turns the screen to 72 fps for everything EXCEPT 1080p60. It obviously cannot keep switching the screen playback rate based on content -- only on how the connection is set.

It is easier to force the 1080p60 or 1080p24 output modes on the player, for DVDs (BluRay should be automatic I hope), and leave the TV alone. This way, 1080i content can be forced to the right playback mode, and the TV always does the right thing.

So, yes, I do need the ability to select 1080p24 vs. 1080p60 for my DVDs, and need to be able to program a macro on my Harmony to either switch it, or get me to the correct menu to switch it.

Is the Oppo good for this? How well does it do with 1080p24 output from film-based movies? It sounded like you were playing down the feature because it might not work well. This is the opposite of my experience with my HD-DVD player.
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post

I reread page 9 of the manual. It states: change the code in the remote to 2 or 3, have the player on with no disc playing, aim the remote and press enter for 5 seconds. No mention of having the tray open.

From the manual:

Quote:


To select a new remote code, open the battery compartment cover of the remote control, and then use a ball point pen to flip the switch to one of the positions marked as “1”, “2”, or “3”. Close the battery compartment cover. Make sure that the BDP-83 player is turned on and the disc tray is ejected. Aim the remote control at the player. Press and hold the ENTER button for 5 seconds. The player will start using the new remote code.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Die, HDMI CEC, Die!

-Bill

This might be cool for some, but most have a programmable remote. I wonder if we see this removed from future firmware, just to eliminate any gotchas or at least have it disabled as default?
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrumc View Post

This might be cool for some, but most have a programmable remote. I wonder if we see this removed from future firmware, just to eliminate any gotchas or at least have it disabled as default?

I would turn it off by the default, but you can't remove it entirely else you'd have to call the wahmbulance for people who shop by checklist.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryecohen View Post

Well as I said, I emailed asking about purchasing an IR-ES1 for my BDP-83, and the reply I received stated I could have one for free with proof-of-purchase. I replied to that email, giving them the email address associated with the PayPal account used to purchase my BDP-83, and I received a reply that an IR Cable would be sent to me that afternoon.

You are talking about two different products.

IR-ES1 is a Remote Sensor. This product is not available as it has not been produced.

What OPPO is sending out is the 1m 3.5mm Stereo-to-Mono IR cable which is necessary to use the HM-31, DV-983H, and BDP-83 with an external IR device (such as Xantech IR block). These are sent out upon request as long as you provide a proof of purchase.
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:44 PM
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Received a new unit today. So far pretty good:

1. Eagles DVD-A was a mess. Just total stuttering. Video was OK.
2. My sons Sesame Street DVD was fine.
3. Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon SACD was fine.
4. Billy Joel The Stranger SACD was fine.
5. Wall-E Blu-Ray was great. Except noticed a lot of judder during Pans. My display is a Kuro 111FD. Everything is on Auto for the display. Maybe my 24P settings are wrong? I have everything on Auto (resolution, 24P detect) and 24P turned on. I tried turning it off and setting my resolution to 1080P, but I noticed the same problem. What am I doing wrong?
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Until the BDP-83 entered into my system, I have not had a single HDMI handshake issue except with my HTPC, which was caused by a known issue with ATI video cards and is fixed with a Geffen DVI Detective and appears to have been resolved in ATI's latest drivers. I've got a pretty decent assortment of HDMI devices - Denon DVD-3930CI, XBox Elite, PS3, HTPC, 3 DirecTV HR21 Pro's, DirecTV HR10-250 (the original HD Tivo), Parasound zHD HDMI switcher, and formerly had an OPPO HM31 HDMI switcher. If they don't eventually fix the HDMI handshake issue for my particular combination of equipment, I could easily see myself returning the player for a refund and going with another option (most likely a Bluray player and then a 2nd player for everything else - possibly keeping my Denon DVD-3930CI). However, I know that Mark Rubin has been one of the beta testers and owns the same surround sound processor (Denon AVP-A1HDCI) - I don't recall him mentioning any handshake problems, so I'm pretty confident that OPPO will get the problem resolved.

Let me assure you that while you may not have experienced HDMI handshake issues with mainline equipment, they can and do happen to others. Sony Bravia displays do not get along with Denon 3808/4308 series receivers. I have both a Bravia TV and a 3808, and I now try to avoid using HDMI through the receiver at all because of HDMI dropouts/re-handshakes that take place on a regular basis while watching, and I'm far from alone in having this problem. Neither of these manufacturers are AV neophytes. I can't speak directly to the BDP-83, but my 983 has never had a problem with HDMI sync when going either directly to the TV, or through a Monoprice HDMI switch. Obviously, it's just as easy for OPPO to have problems in this area as other manufacturers. The difference is that OPPO support will actually talk to you about problems and try to verify and fix them. Their email support was amazing -- I always had responses within a few minutes. That has not been my experience with Denon. Once their only suggestion of replacing the HDMI cables and changing power-up order did not work, they no longer even acknowledged any further communication with them, and that was going through their own problem ticketing system.

The BDP-83 may not be completely ready for prime-time in its current state, especially in your system. That's kind of the point of an EAP. However, their record says they will be doing everything they can to make sure that when it launches, it will be ready.

Dave Barnhart
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Loiterman View Post

1. Eagles DVD-A was a mess. Just total stuttering. Video was OK.

Ensure HDMI was set to LPCM and not Bit Stream if you have not done so already.

Quote:


I tried turning it off and setting my resolution to 1080P, but I noticed the same problem. What am I doing wrong?

When you changed from Auto to 1080p, what did the front panel of the player show? Was it "1080p 60" or "1080p 23.943"?
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You are talking about two different products.

IR-ES1 is a Remote Sensor. This product is not available as it has not been produced.

What OPPO is sending out is the 1m 3.5mm Stereo-to-Mono IR cable which is necessary to use the HM-31, DV-983H, and BDP-83 with an external IR device (such as Xantech IR block). These are sent out upon request as long as you provide a proof of purchase.

Hmmm... Well that won't help me much. I specifically asked for an IR-ES1 in my email, as that is what Oppo suggests I need on page 18 of the BDP-83 owners manual. I see many wired remote sensors/extenders on ebay for under $10. Why would Oppo have difficulty producing one? Why would customer service also not explain to me what it is they are sending out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by email trail View Post

From: OPPO Service
To: Barry E. Cohen
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:16:44 PM
Subject: RE: IR-ES1 for BDP-53...

Barry,

We will send a IR cable this afternoon.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. Cohen
Sent: Thu 3/26/2009 10:55 AM
To: OPPO Service
Subject: Re: IR-ES1 for BDP-53...

Wonderful. How should I send proof-of-purchase for my player?

The payal account that I used for purchase is: XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXX.com. You can send the IR-ES1 to that same address.

Regards, Barry


________________________________

From: OPPO Service
To: Barry E. Cohen
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:26:12 PM
Subject: RE: IR-ES1 for BDP-53...

Barry,

We can send these free of charge as long as you provide us with a proof of purchase for your OPPO product.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. Cohen
Sent: Thu 3/26/2009 9:16 AM
To: OPPO Service
Subject: IR-ES1 for BDP-53...

Hello,

I received my BDP-53 yesterday, and I was wondering how much the IR-ES1 costs. I looked on your web-site and can't find any information on it.

Regards, Barry


So much media, so little time...

 

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Old 03-27-2009, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbii View Post

can't speak directly to the BDP-83, but my 983 has never had a problem with HDMI sync when going either directly to the TV, or through a Monoprice HDMI switch. Obviously, it's just as easy for OPPO to have problems in this area as other manufacturers.

The interaction between the decoder and the external scaler is a lot more complicated than it was on the DV-983H. For the DV-983H the external scaler (ABT1018 or ABT2010) was always receiving 480i/576i unless you played back a HD JPEG.

For the Blu-ray player, the source material can be 480i/576i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24Hz, 1080p 50/60Hz and resolution in between for user created contents. Each time the decoder changes resolutions to decode at the native resolution of the source material, a new handshake with the ABT solution is required. This in turn cascades into a new handshake with the receiving device.

Each time you handshake is an opportunity for failure. OPPO has been working diligently on this problem, and it is hopeful that most of these errors will be resolved or greatly reduced in frequency.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Loiterman View Post

...What am I doing wrong?

Try setting your Pure Cinema mode to either Off or Advance, and see what happens.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:04 PM
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The manual that came with my unit must be a new version. It is not marked draft or preliminary.

Page 9: "To select a new remote code, open the battery compartment cover of the remote control, and then use a ball point pen to flip the switch to one of the positions marked as "1", "2", or "3". Close the battery compartment cover. Make sure the BDP-83 player is turned on and there is no disc playing. Aim the remote control at the player. Press and hold the ENTER button for 5 seconds. The player will start using the new remote code."

That's the total statement.

Joe
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryecohen View Post

Why would customer service also not explain to me what it is they are sending out?

Because OPPO CSRs are not robots; they are humans that will make mistakes.

If the CSR did not read carefully that you said the IR-ES1 and just pre-assumed that you meant the IR Cable (which is what most of the conversations on the forum have been eluding to) then they would have sent our the IR Cable.

Quote:


Why would Oppo have difficulty producing one?

They've never produced such a product before. They may have manufacturing problems, can't properly tool for it, or don't want to spend the money tooling for something that is not going to sell enough to make up for the production costs. But really, that is speculation, as I do not know why they have not produced it, as it has been "advertised" in the HM-31, DV-983H, and BDP-83 manuals.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post

Hi Bob,

I reread page 9 of the manual. It states: change the code in the remote to 2 or 3, have the player on with no disc playing, aim the remote and press enter for 5 seconds. No mention of having the tray open.

The splash screen shows the same noise pattern with a disc stopped or no disc in the player.

1080p/24 and deep color are off.

I tried all output resolutions that my 720p pj will accept. Tried 4 different HDMI cables. Ran direct to the pj. Problem is persistent.

That was last night. The player was unplugged for 10 hours. Fired it back up just now. Reset to factory default. Ran through all of the above again. No change.

On Wednesday everything was fine for the 3 or 4 hours I used the unit.

Time to give oppo a call.

Thanks everyone,

Joe

The on-line version of the manual found here (link also available at the top of the first post of this thread):

http://www.oppodigital.com/Download/...ish_Manual.pdf

says this on page 9:

"Make sure that the BDP-83 player is turned on and the disc tray is ejected."

Which version of the manual were you looking at? It sounds like you got an older version somehow.

-------------------------------------

Your video problem looks to me to be a hardware failure. Yep, time to call Oppo.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post

The manual that came with my unit must be a new version. It is not marked draft or preliminary.

Preliminary is written on the Online Manual. None of the User's Manuals have "Preliminary" written on them, as they were likely printed in anticipation of being used for the official product.

Firmware changes will change functionality. In previous firmware the code could be changed without the tray being ejected. This was altered to require a tray ejection to limit the possibility of the IR codes being changed accidentally.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dcbii View Post

Let me assure you that while you may not have experienced HDMI handshake issues with mainline equipment, they can and do happen to others.

The BDP-83 may not be completely ready for prime-time in its current state, especially in your system. That's kind of the point of an EAP. However, their record says they will be doing everything they can to make sure that when it launches, it will be ready.

Good grief people. I'm well aware that HDMI handshake issues exist out in the wild, but it's been acknowledged that OPPO is aware that they INTRODUCED a problem in the most recent firmware that wasn't present in earlier versions and INCREASES the likelyhood of HDMI handshake issues.

I also realize that part of the point of the EAP is to identify and give OPPO a chance to resolve problems.

A few of you seem to be suggesting that I should just ignore the fact that this particular HDMI handshake issue exists and gleefully vote yes. Well sorry, but that's not how the EAP is intended to work. If OPPO gets the HDMI handshake issue to the point where it's only an issue for a few oddball configurations, then I'll probably vote yes even if it's still an issue in my system. I think that's a pretty reasonable stance to take on this.

I'm not expecting absolute perfection, but it has to be close enough that I feel that the typical user will actually be happy with their purchase.

So far I'm happy with my purchase assuming the issues I've seen can be addressed (and I am pretty confident that they can be).
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Preliminary is written on the Online Manual. None of the User's Manuals have "Preliminary" written on them, as they were likely printed in anticipation of being used for the official product.

Firmware changes will change functionality. In previous firmware the code could be changed without the tray being ejected. This was altered to require a tray ejection to limit the possibility of the IR codes being changed accidentally.

So we can infer that the online manual that says "Preliminary" is the most up to date manual, and actually is more accurate than the manual sent with the EAP units? Thanks for that clarification.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The on-line version of the manual found here (link also available at the top of the first post of this thread):

http://www.oppodigital.com/Download/...ish_Manual.pdf

Says this on page 9:

"Make sure that the BDP-83 player is turned on and the disc tray is ejected."

Which version of the manual were you looking at? It sounds like you got an older version somehow.

-------------------------------------

Your video problem looks to me to be a hardware failure. Yep, time to call Oppo.
--Bob

Maybe my manual is an old one.

Page 71 at the bottom: 5196527 V2.0

Joe
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coffee nudge View Post

So we can infer that the online manual that says "Preliminary" is the most up to date manual, and actually is more accurate than the manual sent with the EAP units?

Yes, the Online Manual is more up to date than the manual which was included with the player.

There should have been a piece of paper with your your manual alerting you to the more up to date online manual.
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