Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 405 - AVS Forum
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post #12121 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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At this time Audio Delay is only available when using HDMI. We have already requested that it be added for the analog outputs, but there has been no change in firmware of the BDP-83 to reflect this feature request.
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post #12122 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:17 PM
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Thanks to all for the helpful posts on the -10db LFE channel. Since I am doing all bass management in the processor and not in the player, I think I have a simpler situation. I should be ok if I just boost the player LFE channel by 10db. Correct?

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post #12123 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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In most cases, yes. You will want to check your results with a SPL meter (if you have one) to verify that your receiver is not naturally increasing the subwoofer input.
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post #12124 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

At this time Audio Delay is only available when using HDMI. We have already requested that it be added for the analog outputs, but there has been no change in firmware of the BDP-83 to reflect this feature request.

I had a feeling

Thanks, there was no way I could read through 200 pages of this thread to find that out and I had already tried to search.

Much appreciated.

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post #12125 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

I had a feeling

Thanks, there was no way I could read through 200 pages of this thread to find that out and I had already tried to search.

Much appreciated.

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Hey Craig, long time no see! Hope all is well.

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post #12126 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Hey Craig, long time no see! Hope all is well.

David

HA! Hi David and good to see you to.

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post #12127 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 05:10 PM
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I have both bdp 83 and 981 hd. I am very happy with my new blu ray from OPPO
This is my only dissapointment I have very limited control over multi channel audio,something I always had with 981. I can't set the player in stereo mode when listening to music .When I tried my first DTS HD 7.1 movie "the Orphanage" the rear channels were silent so I had to power the player off and on before getting all channels.I need the analog out because my AVR doesn't have HDMI inputs.Besides all this ,this player has amazing soundstage.
BTW, 981's digital output has more dynamic when listening music.I am aware this is a new machine and it's going to be awhile before all the kinks are worked out,but would someone help me with this mch analog problems.Thanks

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post #12128 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

What do you mean by that?

The LFE channel is a discrete channel included in digital soundtracks (the ".1 channel") for low-frequency effects (massive bass output). It is encoded with the same maximum level as the regular channels because digital sound has hard limits, but is defined to be played back 10 dB louder than the other channels.

The subwoofer channel or output is the signal that actually gets sent to the subwoofer, which typically includes the contents of the LFE channel (if there is one) mixed with bass redirected from the other speakers if bass management is active and operating in certain modes (the common case). When there is such mixing going on, which usually happens in the digital domain, the redirected bass is mixed 10 dB lower than the contents of the LFE channel; this is because it does not make sense to give the LFE channel its 10 dB boost yet as the signal could be clipped very severely (defeating the whole purpose of its existence, really). When the boost is finally applied later on, the LFE bass and redirected bass will then have the proper balance between them. Years ago (but even today), some players and receivers did not mix LFE and redirected bass properly, effectively not giving the LFE channel its 10 dB bias over redirected bass, resulting in the notorious "LFE bug". The BDP-83 does not suffer from this bug.

As you can see, although related, the LFE and subwoofer channels are different things entirely--one represents soundtrack content while the other directly represents output from the subwoofer specifically. You can have an LFE channel without a subwoofer channel, in which case through bass management the contents of the LFE channel will be reproduced by the main speakers (as well as they can, anyway). You can also have a subwoofer channel with no LFE channel, in which case the subwoofer channel will only contain bass redirected from the other channels. The most common case is that the subwoofer channel will contain a mix between the LFE channel and redirected bass that is 10 dB lower.

One problem we're having here right now is that somebody keeps claiming that I'm wrong about everything, and that the BDP-83 does not give the LFE channel its needed 10 dB bias. This sounds an awful lot like the dreaded LFE bug, doesn't it? However, what this person really means is that the BDP-83's subwoofer channel (analog output) is 10 dB lower than that of a typical receiver, which appears to be true. Clearly, there is confusion over what the LFE channel and subwoofer channels are, and I hope that I've managed to clarify it.

As for when the 10 dB bass boost should be applied, a lot of people think that THE right thing to do, above all other options, is to set the BDP-83's subwoofer trim control to +10 dB (I assume that this is a digital control for a small analog amplifier). In fact, some consider this a bug or flaw in the player, when all the player is really doing is keeping with the spirit of the LFE channel itself, which is to defer this massive 10 dB boost until the signal gets to equipment that can handle it, such as the subwoofer itself. If you boost the signal in the player's subwoofer trim control, then because it is so much more powerful than the other signals (about ten times the RMS power or 3.16 times the amplitude), you'd run the risk of overloading the player's analog subwoofer output jack, the receiver's subwoofer input jack, the receiver's subwoofer output jack, and the subwoofer's input jack. In my case, my digital subwoofer EQ would clip badly at +10 dB (red clipping light on constantly during bass-heavy scenes). Granted, analog components may fare better, but you don't know that for sure.

The best place to give the bass its 10 dB boost is the subwoofer's volume control, if possible. That way, by the time the signal is finally boosted, it will be handled by heavy-duty analog components. If this causes a mismatch between the BDP-83 and other sources that are processed by the receiver, then lower the receiver's subwoofer trim settings for the other sources by 10 dB, which really should have been done from the beginning (this nullifies the 10 dB boost that most receivers seem to give their subwoofer outputs for digital sources). But I digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck05 View Post

Wow; the MCH topic seems to be a bit difficult to wade through...

It wouldn't be quite as difficult if we all had the same point of view and used the same terminology (semantics are especially annoying).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck05 View Post

For my "older" Denon AVR-4802, Multi-channel was my only choice for the lossless codecs. The LFE/SW output was way below what I was used to (which for some of you may have been way too much as I do enjoy boomy movie sound effects and music).

It's the subwoofer output--the LFE channel is a part of the soundtrack, not what comes out of the player in a direct sense. If your Denon receiver is like mine, then it automatically boosts the subwoofer output by 10 dB, unlike the BDP-83 which correctly (in my view) keeps the signal at nominal line levels. The easiest thing to do would be to boost the signal from the BDP-83 by 10 dB, and the safest would be to lower the receiver's subwoofer output for digital sources by 10 dB and recalibrate the subwoofer's volume control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

here Robert Cook, here is the post where a member emailedoppo on the issue and their reply:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11248

right there oppoiadmits that the subwoofer OUTPUT is 10db lower than the others under normal conditions.

OPPO support said "When using the multi-channel analog outputs the Subwoofer output is -10dB lower than the other channels." This statement is incomplete in some ways--the subwoofer output is 10 dB lower (maybe 15 dB in reality but 10 dB when compared to typical receivers) than it needs to be reproduced, but it is not 10 dB lower in an absolute sense than the other channels when the LFE channel and redirected bass are blasting at full volume. The point here, just as with the LFE channel itself, is to keep signals from overloading various inputs and outputs. I'm sure that OPPO's engineers understand this, but they're probably not the ones answering emails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

they do NOT boost the LFE by 10db, because then when they mix in the bass from the small speakers then the LFE channel would be 10db too high after compensating for the small speaker redirected bass.

I'm not sure what you mean here. All of this processing takes place in the digital domain, so even boosting the LFE channel by 10 dB (or any amount) at this stage alone--never mind redirected bass--could cause overflows and severe clipping. I'm guessing here, but it almost seems as though you believe that the LFE channel never gets any louder, as encoded, than -10 dB. Is that what you believe?

What I've been saying all along is that one way or another, the LFE channel content is supposed to be 10 dB louder than redirected bass when reproduced, so that's how they have to be mixed, relatively speaking. In actuality, since boosts cannot be done digitally, this means that redirected bass is mixed 10 dB lower than LFE content in order to keep the relative levels correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

by leaving the LFE channel 10db below the other channels as encoded and mixingin the redirected bass 10db low, when your receiver boosts the signal by 10db (or 12 in my case) then everything will be at the correct level.

I think we've been saying basically the same thing but using completely different points of view and terminology. The difference is that you consider the LFE channel encoded at a low level and say that the redirected bass has to be lowered to match it, while I view the LFE channel as a regular encoding that needs to be played extra loud, so redirected bass has to be lowered to compensate before mixing. Both points of view are valid because both of us use the same mix formula: taking redirected bass down by 10 dB before mixing it with LFE content.

A subtle aspect of this difference is that I'm more focused on how loud the LFE channel can get (and the subwoofer output as a result) because although it's defined as being encoded 10 dB low, the LFE channel encoding itself can reach the same level as that of the other channels, making it 10 dB louder than the other channels, and opening up the possibility of creating an extremely hot analog subwoofer output signal at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

it is a well known fact that the LFE channel..again notice i said the LFE channel is encoded 10db BELOW the other channels on a DISC..and the oppo and all other players i know of including my pioneer 51 decode the channel at the level it is encoded at and supplies this to the multichannel jacks as is. period. therefore even the LFE channel with NO redirected bass needs a 10db boost ELSEWHERE prior to amplification.

True, but you keep using the LFE channel and subwoofer channel terms synonymously when they're really different things. By saying that the LFE channel specifically is not boosted by 10 dB in the context of bass management, you imply, however accidentally, that the BDP-83 has the infamous "LFE bug" whereby it fails to lower redirected bass by 10 dB before mixing it with the LFE channel (raising one or lowering the other results in the same meaning). A number of players and receivers have had this bug, but the BDP-83 does not. You misunderstood when I said that the LFE channel was mixed 10 dB higher than the redirected bass (in relative terms), but now we both understand why. I'll try to use different phrasing next time, although I think most people knew exactly what I meant.
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post #12129 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

youre all wrong. i have played dts ma 5.1 titles and i get sound out of my back speakers using analog outs. it does it with both MA and DTS core sources. if you look back on my posts from a few pages ago, this has already been discussed.

Thanks and are you or others able to confirm if this is done over HDMI (i.e. 5.1 DTS-HD MA becomes 7.1 LPCM after player decoding) also ? [note: can only be ascertained by those with 7.1 configured systems]

I suspect it is but need to know for sure!

Thanks,

Bryan
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post #12130 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

I found and pasted the info below which I found helpful:

http://ramelectronics.blogspot.com/2...ng-dac-or.html

Bitstream vs PCM (LPCM) when using a DAC or in your Home Theater Setup
Why don't I hear the digital audio?!

Thank you, but this really does not pertain to me.

I already know that I will not be using the Oppo bdp 83 for video processing or audio decoding.

I know that I will be using Source Direct via HDMI and setting the Oppo up to do as little video processing as possible in order to leave this to a downstream processor.

I also know that I will be bitstreaming the audio via HDMI, leaving all of the decoding, speaker set-up, etc. to my surround processor.

I also know that I will only be using the Oppo bdp 83 for DVD and Blu-Ray and will not be using the Oppo bdp 83 for CD, DVD-A, SACD, or for any other type of software.

So, my question is -- has anyone who is using the Oppo bdp 83 in this fashion, as a digital transport for DVD and blu-ray only, had any difficulties?

Or are all of the people who are reporting difficulties using the Oppo to decode audio, set-up speakers, process video, or using it for CD, SACD, DVD-A, or other types of video besides DVD and blu-ray?

To be clear -- I want to hear whether anyone who is using Source Direct for video and Bitstreaming audio in digital through HDMI and limiting usage to DVD and blu-ray only has experienced any difficulty.


.
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post #12131 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

My AVR does MCH pass thru - no trim controls. My 2 subs have volume controls, but they are set to provide satisfactory DVR audio and I do not want to adjust them whenever I change the AVR input. Thus, I must use the 83's trim.

You could turn the existing trims on your AVR down by 10 dB, but I'm probably the only person who is paranoid enough to do something like that (based on personal experience and empirical evidence, mind you, not my imagination ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

As I think I understand it, the SW output, which is ONLY LFE when there's no bass mgmt,

That's right, when bass is not redirected to the subwoofer channel, it should only contain the LFE channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

outputs the same level as the other channels, but needs a +10dB boost for proper listening.

In theory, more or less--you never know what's really going on inside processors. For example, some may attempt to keep the subwoofer level the same regardless of whether bass is being redirected to the subwoofer channel, apparently for the sake of convenience since it won't force you to recalibrate. This is why I think people here are a bit too obsessed with exact numbers--personally, I keep measuring and tweaking until it's right. As it happens, I have my receiver's subwoofer trim level at 0 dB for the BDP-83 on the multichannel analog input (the player's own subwoofer trim is also at 0 dB) and -10 dB for all digital sources. There's no guarantee that there will be exactly a 10 dB difference between the BDP-83 and every receiver, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

With bass mgmt, the redirected bass is reduced -10dB, then the entire SW output (redirected bass + LFE) is reduced by -5dB, thus requiring a +15 boost somewhere for proper listening. Do I have this correct?

Technically, in most processors, each channel from which bass is redirected is lowered by 15 dB (just for this process), the LFE channel is lowered by 5 dB, all of these lowered channels are summed together, and then the summed channel is passed through a low-pass filter (these processes are usually all digital, by the way, and certainly are in the BDP-83). The subwoofer channel then goes through a DAC, a small analog amplifier controlled by the trim setting, and finally an RCA jack. Somewhere from the DAC to the subwoofer itself, there must be a combined total of +15 dB gain.

That said, this +15 dB number is still kind of arbitrary because it depends on the location of the subwoofer, how it's balanced with the other channels, and many other factors. The bottom line is that you don't need to be concerned with exact numbers--calibrating your system will take care of this boost and everything else at the same time. You don't have to use specific values anywhere, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

Sounds like there should be a +15dB trim in the 83, but as pointed out, could be problematic re clipping.

And even if the BDP-83 were designed for such output levels (which one could reasonably argue because it offers a +10 dB trim setting), there is no guarantee that it would be acceptable for the inputs of all devices further downstream.

In any case, it's curious that many receivers seem to have subwoofer outputs that are only 10 dB higher than the BDP-83's, which would therefore make them 5 dB too low. Obviously, something weird is going on here, and yet everybody seems to be so concerned with these numbers and the technical details behind them. The truth is that receivers output a somewhat weak signal, too, but nobody cares because it's compensated for by the subwoofer's volume control and everybody assumes that the receivers have the correct level while the BDP-83 does not. No offense intended, but I'm laughing at everybody because the subwoofer outputs of ALL of these devices are wrong, relative to the other channels, and it doesn't matter anyway because you still have to set the sub's volume control.
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post #12132 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:14 PM
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The HFS10 is FAT32. It chunks long video into <2GB chunks.

The BDP-83 seems to play long videos just fine. It seems to correctly assemble the chunked video on the fly. Probably a benifit of playing from the AVCHD file system on camera.

The HFS10 is quite good, there are threads in the camcorder section on the HFS10/100 also quite a bit of content recorded by the camera if you google around. My biggest gripe is it has to be connected to power to use the USB.
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post #12133 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:19 PM
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[quote=dsok;16518518]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

No difference in terms of audio quality between the formats, at least none that mere humans can discern. (note: audiophiles are not human).

Now that's funny. After reading many post at the Audio Asylum me thinks you may just have a point.

Welcome one and all, to AVS, the Audiophile Villification and Slander forum. We are delusional. We are snobs. Now we are sub-human. No wonder some feel that it's OK to shoot us. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/0...udiophile.html

For the uninitiated, this is what's known as "technical talk". It must be, as this is a "technical talk only" forum.

Is anyone aware of a forum that discusses the BDP-83 that is modded?

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post #12134 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:29 PM
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Is anyone aware of a forum that discusses the BDP-83 that is modded?

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post #12135 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:36 PM
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Interesting as all this SW and LFE banter is...

Perhaps the best description I have ever read and one that is accurate - can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...40#post8855640

If you are interested, spend the time reading and understanding the information in this thread.

Now, can we get back on topic? The -83 processes LFE correctly, from it's standpoint.

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post #12136 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:51 PM
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I've been playing with the 83 some while waiting for my new room to get finished (#@%$!), so I haven't worried about much tweaking. Looks nice on the 40" CRT though.

Anyway, the zoom works well on DVDs- doing the main things it's needed for (stretching discs that aren't marked anamorphic but should be and expanding letterboxed 4:3 images). I had a disc I thought was incorrectly anamorphic, but it looked OK. Either I was thinking of another disc or my Oppo 971 did it wrong.

Data files from my ReplayTV play in the correct (4:3) AR too, which the 971 does wrong (it makes them 16:9). But- and I'm finally to the point- it changes the AR to something skinny when I zoom. Does the same thing on VCDs.

I have not experimented with files with different explicit ARs yet. I think the Replay uses transport streams that are 720 x 480 (like DVDs), but that don't have an AR notation (can you even do that in an MPEG-2 TS?). At least that's what MPEG Streamclip reports- most of the Apple stuff says they're 640 x 480, but I think that's because it's the default display size (AR).

The only other kind of data file I've played was Michael Moore's Slacker Uprising AVI, and it played about 16:9 (per its pixel dimensions) and as wide as the screen, but zooms skinny (to the number sizes) as well. I'd expect "stretch" and "full" (because it's really 640 x 352) to be off by nature, but 1/2 should look the same (AR-wise) as it does normally, right?

[ Insert Michael Moore / skinny joke here. ]

I'm impressed by the 1x AR choices the player has made so far, but zooming breaks it in ways I wouldn't expect. I can experiment more, but I was guessing this is a known problem. Anyone else seen this?

ab
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post #12137 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

interesting as all this sw and lfe banter is...

Perhaps the best description i have ever read and one that is accurate - can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...40#post8855640

if you are interested, spend the time reading and understanding the information in this thread.

Now, can we get back on topic? The -83 processes lfe correctly, from it's standpoint.


most excellent!
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post #12138 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabillyhop View Post

Thanks to all for the helpful posts on the -10db LFE channel. Since I am doing all bass management in the processor and not in the player, I think I have a simpler situation. I should be ok if I just boost the player LFE channel by 10db. Correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

In most cases, yes. You will want to check your results with a SPL meter (if you have one) to verify that your receiver is not naturally increasing the subwoofer input.

Uh...unless I'm interpreting this wrongly, Kabillyhop is using the BDP-83's analog multichannel output with a processor that can perform bass management on its multichannel input. If this is indeed the case, then I don't think it would be a good idea to boost the player's subwoofer output (which in this case is just the LFE channel) before the signal reaches the processor. I imagine that the processor expects exactly what's in soundtracks, with the balance set by the author, as if it had decoded the soundtracks itself. If the processor really can perform bass management, then it should know what to do with the raw LFE channel. In the player, all of the speakers should be set to Large with a trim level of 0.0 dB. Any adjustments to the subwoofer output level should be made in the processor, not the player, I would think.

Admittedly, I have zero experience with processors that perform bass management on external multichannel inputs, so maybe my assumptions are completely incorrect. Am I missing something here?
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post #12139 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Most receivers which can do bass management over multi-channel analog will have options available for enabling or disabling "Subwoofer Boost". Some receivers, like the Yamaha RX-Vxxxx will always be bass shy over multi-channel analog, as there is no option to boost just the subwoofer input.

Like I said, I would check the SPL readings first and see how your receiver is processing the audio. If you find the bass is shy, then you will need to adjust the Subwoofer trim through the BDP-83 or the receiver. I generally recommend using the BDP-83, as it eliminates the concern that your receiver will adjust the Subwoofer settings globally (ie. now your cable box, video game consoles, and other sources will be way too hot).
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post #12140 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gonk View Post

I also would see it as something better suited to the analog output only (much like bass management already behaves), since there are only a couple of HDMI receivers and processors around that can't apply matrix processing to 5.1 PCM sources.

Unfortunately mine is one of these AVRs. I would like to see this over HDMI too, since this lacking feature is the only thing that makes me unhappy with my current AVR so it'd save me an upgrade.

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post #12141 of 39352 Old 05-24-2009, 10:22 PM
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I know that alot of people on the forum like the oppo. I want to know if there is any improvement on an HDTV that can do the 120 refresh rate. I own the panasonic 60 and when I do the 24.. looks very nice.. I am using the 120 refresh from the tv.

Jacob
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post #12142 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 01:21 AM
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Setting up the analog SW/LFE levels has been a trial and error process for sure. I received this response from Oppo about the LFE output in the 83.

The alterations to the bass management happens internally before the player reads the end-user instructions. That is, increasing the volume or the other channels will not increase the internal volume before bass management, thereby making the subwoofer always +10dB. Increasing the speaker trims will cause the speakers to be +5dB louder than the other channels.

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2629B Terminal Blvd.
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Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119


This was hard to translate but I believe they are saying the same thing Robert Cook has said.

I am fortunate in this regards as I incorporated an Outlaw ICBM into the mix. I have speakers set to large in the player all levels at 0.

The Oppo is hooked into the ICBM there the crossovers are set for each individual speaker and from there they are hooked into my NAD T773 (which is pass through but can adjust speaker levels which I did). But I do not run my subwoofer outputs from the ICBM to the receiver but directly into my 2 subwoofers.

The OutLaw has a separate LFE adjustment -10dB to 0dB (the 0dB = +10dB) and a separate Subwoofer level control. I calibrated all this using a DVE HD Basic disc and a rat shack meter, the SW levels are really adjusted close with the meter but mostly by what it sounds and feels like in my room.

The only drawback is I have to readjust the subwoofer control differently for CD's and some DVD Audio discs but I marked the settings on the ICBM and just adjust when putting in a disc.

Now I am happy , the Oppo preforms wonderfully, and the replaced never realized Samsung UP5000 is going into the guest room.
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post #12143 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 01:38 AM
 
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Outlaw Intercontintental Ballistic Missile?!
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post #12144 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

Thanks and are you or others able to confirm if this is done over HDMI (i.e. 5.1 DTS-HD MA becomes 7.1 LPCM after player decoding) also ? [note: can only be ascertained by those with 7.1 configured systems]

I suspect it is but need to know for sure!

Thanks,

Bryan

Yes Bryan good to nail this down ; the manual doesnt expand on pg62 when it lists dts hdma '' lpcm up to 7.1'' ? Is this inclusive/exclusive of 5.1 ? [the manual does distinguish dts core as decoded 5.1 pcm as it should] ; this implies it leaves 5.1 lossless as is possibly .
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post #12145 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

I know that alot of people on the forum like the oppo. I want to know if there is any improvement on an HDTV that can do the 120 refresh rate. I own the panasonic 60 and when I do the 24.. looks very nice.. I am using the 120 refresh from the tv.

Jacob

The player will produce 24hz output and for Blu-ray you can have this with or without ABT VRS processing.

What sort of improvement are you looking for?

-Bill
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post #12146 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 04:56 AM
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Hello. I ordered an 83 and received it on Friday, as I was one of the "early interest" people (as opposed to early adopter). It will be used in my system for "quickie" viewing, meaning when I don't have time or desire to fire up the main rig. It is also back-up to a Pioneer Elite 09FD. The 09's audio is connected to the main system via analog (it's a conventional 2-channel stereo); the 83's through an EDGE via HDMI to the display, a 111FD.
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post #12147 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

Uh...unless I'm interpreting this wrongly, Kabillyhop is using the BDP-83's analog multichannel output with a processor that can perform bass management on its multichannel input. If this is indeed the case, then I don't think it would be a good idea to boost the player's subwoofer output (which in this case is just the LFE channel) before the signal reaches the processor. I imagine that the processor expects exactly what's in soundtracks, with the balance set by the author, as if it had decoded the soundtracks itself. If the processor really can perform bass management, then it should know what to do with the raw LFE channel. In the player, all of the speakers should be set to Large with a trim level of 0.0 dB. Any adjustments to the subwoofer output level should be made in the processor, not the player, I would think.

Admittedly, I have zero experience with processors that perform bass management on external multichannel inputs, so maybe my assumptions are completely incorrect. Am I missing something here?

Thanks Robert, that was helpful. Reading through the manual, it looks like my pre-pro actually does know what to do with the LFE channel and I will leave the player setting as you suggest. The speaker configurations for the 5.1 analog input have a cinema setting (LFE boost applied), a music setting (LFE boost not applied) and an auto-LFE setting where it detects the presence of the LFE channel and applies the boost if necessary... if I am interpreting it correctly. In addition, there is a sub/LFE button on the remote which when pushed twice will remove the boost... presumably in case it was applied when it should not have been.

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post #12148 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

Uh...

Admittedly, I have zero experience with processors that perform bass management on external multichannel inputs, so maybe my assumptions are completely incorrect. Am I missing something here?

I believe you have it right. I am using my Lexicon MC-12 in this manner. The Lexicon takes in the analog signal from the player and does an A/D conversion and applies all the base management in the digital realm. The bass management in the Lex has the capability of running a separate LFE sub and two stereo L/R subs. This is how I have it setup. Sounds really good and testing with an SPL meter indicate that the proper boost is being applied in the processor.
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post #12149 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 06:14 AM
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[quote=Gregor Samsa;16521707]
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Originally Posted by dsok View Post


Welcome one and all, to AVS, the Audiophile Villification and Slander forum. We are delusional. We are snobs. Now we are sub-human. No wonder some feel that it's OK to shoot us. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/0...udiophile.html

For the uninitiated, this is what's known as "technical talk". It must be, as this is a "technical talk only" forum.

Is anyone aware of a forum that discusses the BDP-83 that is modded?

Sorry, this is NOT a technical post. Mods remove if must. I had to respond.

Just for the record I am an audiophile with a sense of humor. The two do not need to be mutually exclusive IMOP!
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post #12150 of 39352 Old 05-25-2009, 06:26 AM
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[quote=Gregor Samsa;16521707]
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Originally Posted by dsok View Post


Welcome one and all, to AVS, the Audiophile Villification and Slander forum. We are delusional. We are snobs. Now we are sub-human. No wonder some feel that it's OK to shoot us. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/0...udiophile.html

Damn! Just when I thought I'd be able to chat with people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to "quality" audio!



R
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