Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 503 - AVS Forum
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post #15061 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 11:17 AM
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I have a PDF with pictures of the hardware region free mod for the Oppo. If anyone wants to see how it is done just PM me. I got it from England and I am thinking of getting it for myself.
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post #15062 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

It works for me. I just plug in the flash drive and it pops up the update dialog.

The only time I have used my USB thumbdrive, I did the same and was prompted to update my firmware. I did not have to insert the drive before powering on the unit.
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post #15063 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I guess I'm not splaining this well enough. Oppo has to assume that if there's a way to manually send DSD out to a display that can't handle it, then this will happen either by accident or by intent. So yes, the player must default to PCM if such a device is connected regardless of user settings. If HDMI audio is forced to "off" by the connection, then you open a can of worms with people calling because of no HDMI audio. The current solution is the least of those evils. What would prolly be an improved solution would be if the player could in some way communicate the switch to PCM.

Perhaps I am missing something? Would you provide a specific example where if setting HDMI Audio to Off (and this does indeed result in no HDMI audio), where there could be a dangerous issue? I am not talking about the connection forcing the off. I am talking about any issues where an HDMI Audio Off turns off the HDMI audio completely.

I imagine that the handshake establishes audio and video and that it might be hard to separate the two, so this is why HDMI audio still does an audio handshake and there is this problem of not being able to get DSD out of the analogs in some cases. If HDMI Audio is set to off, then it should be off, and this problem should not occur. There should be no handshake to cause this issue.

I can see where this would not be called a bug, but to me, off means off. There should be no effects at all from HDMI.
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post #15064 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybob View Post

Perhaps I am missing something? Would you provide a specific example where if setting HDMI Audio to Off (and this does indeed result in no HDMI audio), where there could be a dangerous issue? I am not talking about the connection forcing the off. I am talking about any issues where an HDMI Audio Off turns off the HDMI audio completely.

I imagine that the handshake establishes audio and video and that it might be hard to separate the two, so this is why HDMI audio still does an audio handshake and there is this problem of not being able to get DSD out of the analogs in some cases. If HDMI Audio is set to off, then it should be off, and this problem should not occur. There should be no handshake to cause this issue.

I can see where this would not be called a bug, but to me, off means off. There should be no effects at all from HDMI.

It's not a question of what happens when HDMI audio is set to off. It's a question of what happens if the person behind the remote turns it on either by accident or intent and fries his or her hardware that can't handle DSD. Oppo has chosen instead to force PCM output if a device is connected by HDMI that doesn't support DSD. That simple fact is not going to change soon, and it shouldn't change either. It's not a bug, it's by design.

As for the analog outs, they are fed whatever is output by the decoder, which in this case is PCM. The player architecture does not allow different feeds to HDMI and analog, the decoder puts out either PCM or DSD.
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post #15065 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradandbree View Post

...but on my system the difference is noticeable and enjoyable....

And that's all that counts! For me, I'm running DSD via HDMI to my Denon AVR, and it's enjoyable for me!
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post #15066 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It's not a question of what happens when HDMI audio is set to off. It's a question of what happens if the person behind the remote turns it on either by accident or intent and fries his or her hardware that can't handle DSD. Oppo has chosen instead to force PCM output if a device is connected by HDMI that doesn't support DSD. That simple fact is not going to change soon, and it shouldn't change either. It's not a bug, it's by design.

The OP has a point. As long as the Oppo won't output DSD when HDMI = Bitstream until the receiving device indicates support via a handshake, it should be safe. If HDMI Audio = Off (meaning no audio output at all over HDMI) and the user turns it to Bitstream by accident, the Oppo could simply refuse to output DSD until it initiates a handshake to find out if DSD is supported. It seems to initiate handshakes at the slightest provocation anyway (sometimes when not needed), so it certainly should before attempting to output DSD.
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post #15067 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It's not a question of what happens when HDMI audio is set to off. It's a question of what happens if the person behind the remote turns it on either by accident or intent and fries his or her hardware that can't handle DSD. Oppo has chosen instead to force PCM output if a device is connected by HDMI that doesn't support DSD. That simple fact is not going to change soon, and it shouldn't change either. It's not a bug, it's by design.

As for the analog outs, they are fed whatever is output by the decoder, which in this case is PCM. The player architecture does not allow different feeds to HDMI and analog, the decoder puts out either PCM or DSD.

I understand what you are saying and agree. So then my question is why can't or shouldn't HDMI Audio being set to Off, not result in an audio handshake (I am assuming an audio handshake occurs no matter what the HDMI Audio setting and this is the problem) so that this problem goes away?

If someone were to go into the menu and turn the HDMI Audio on, then a handshake would happen and this would override any possible DSD streaming problem.
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post #15068 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
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I just updated the firmware, with a memory stick, worked like a charm. I still have a problem with Beatles "Love" it locks up on the last two tracks. Is this normal or is it just my disc? I double checked the firmware in my player and it is the new version.

Thanks
Jeff
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post #15069 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:40 PM
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I'm about to pull the trigger on a theater upgrade and I'm intrigued by the BDP-83, especially the PAL to NTSC conversion.

I read the FAQ and visited the Oppo website but it's not clear when the BPD-83 will ship. Has anyone actually bought one yet (outside of the early adopters program)? I saw a powerbuy out there for one at a site I'm not familiar with.

Also, how can I set it up to ignore SD-DVD region coding? The FAQ says "Unofficial hacked firmware and hardware modified by third parties exist but are not discussed in this FAQ" which is fairly useless.
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post #15070 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdodmead View Post

I just updated the firmware, with a memory stick, worked like a charm. I still have a problem with Beatles "Love" it locks up on the last two tracks. Is this normal or is it just my disc? I double checked the firmware in my player and it is the new version.

Thanks
Jeff

The Love disc plays straight through here, no problems, with the current public beta FW revision.
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post #15071 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog8 View Post

I'm about to pull the trigger on a theater upgrade and I'm intrigued by the BDP-83, especially the PAL to NTSC conversion.

I read the FAQ and visited the Oppo website but it's not clear when the BPD-83 will ship. Has anyone actually bought one yet (outside of the early adopters program)? I saw a powerbuy out there for one at a site I'm not familiar with.

Also, how can I set it up to ignore SD-DVD region coding? The FAQ says "Unofficial hacked firmware and hardware modified by third parties exist but are not discussed in this FAQ" which is fairly useless.

PAL->NTSC conversion is superb.

There is no release date specified for the general release of the player yet. However, if you go to the OPPO website and go to the page that lists the player and specs, you can sign up to be notified for information regarding the player. After a short period of time, OPPO may send you a personal invitation to buy one before it is released to the general public because they do have a limited number of players on hand. Many people have been able to buy one this way.

Hacked firmware to unlock region coding is not supported by OPPO. Anyone using such third party fw is subject to voiding their manufacturers warranty.
If you want more info about the actual fw and how it works, it is heavily discussed on the AVForums.com website.
The info is not included in the FAQ because the author does not want readers to think that OPPO supports such firmware. I agree with that sentiment.

~Dave

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
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post #15072 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The Love disc plays straight through here, no problems, with the current public beta FW revision.

ditto

~Dave

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post #15073 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdodmead View Post

I just updated the firmware, with a memory stick, worked like a charm. I still have a problem with Beatles "Love" it locks up on the last two tracks. Is this normal or is it just my disc? I double checked the firmware in my player and it is the new version.

Thanks
Jeff

I have the beatles love and I got no lock-ups no problem and the sound to me is 100% better then sdcd.
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post #15074 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajivarora View Post

You must not have read my post carefully. What you say makes sense if I have HDMI Audio set to Bitstream. In that case, reverting to LPCM if the HDMI handshake indicates no DSD capability on the receiver seems prudent. But the whole point of HDMI Audio set to Off is to send no audio to the PJ, so where's the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I guess I'm not splaining this well enough. Oppo has to assume that if there's a way to manually send DSD out to a display that can't handle it, then this will happen either by accident or by intent. So yes, the player must default to PCM if such a device is connected regardless of user settings. If HDMI audio is forced to "off" by the connection, then you open a can of worms with people calling because of no HDMI audio. The current solution is the least of those evils. What would prolly be an improved solution would be if the player could in some way communicate the switch to PCM.

Ok guys, when HDMI audio is forced to "off", is there still a audio track in some form going out to your display ?

Does anybody really know whats happening when HDMI audio is set to off in the Oppo. And i am not talking about "in theory" but what is happening.

ss

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post #15075 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 05:05 PM
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Thanks for the links. It seems there is a software based region free firmware which will solve my problem. I'll go ahead and order one.

It's ironic how the British and Australians can legally talk about region free DVD's as their governments stood up for consumer rights, but here in the land of the free we fear it.
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post #15076 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog8 View Post

Thanks for the links. It seems there is a software based region free firmware which will solve my problem. I'll go ahead and order one.

It's ironic how the British and Australians can legally talk about region free DVD's as their governments stood up for consumer rights, but here in the land of the free we fear it.

What I would fear most is voiding your warranty and being unable to get support.

-Bill


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post #15077 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I read and understood you completely. First, this has nothing to do with the HDMI audio setting, but with the SACD setting. The player is preventing you from using DSD, because if it didn't you could accidentally send DSD over HDMI and kill a monitor. You may not like being forced to be safe, but Oppo has to make this idiot-proof. Their position is that under no circumstances is it OK for the player to be able to do the above regardless of user settings. They have to assume that if it's possible, it will happen. If you were sitting there with a dead monitor, you would probably agree. So you either have to turn off the monitor or unplug it if DSD is worth that much to you. The only other option is to buy a AVR/processor that supports DSD over HDMI. If they can figure out a way for the player to automatically disable HDMI audio under these circumstances, they will do so.

In the specific example that was given, the user had a projector. When the Oppo and the projector perform a handshake, the capabilities of the projector are read off the projector's EDID. In this specific example, most projectors have absolutely no audio playback capability and this would be understood by the Oppo. If you were talking about a TV with speakers that could possibly play back audio, then you may have a point but the example given was a front projector. The projector was in no more danger of being "fried" by the Oppo as a Denon A1UDCI owner would willingly admit the Oppo is a better universal player.

It is possible for DSD to sound better than PCM if you own 5 identical full range speakers all equidistant from the listening position and following the ITU diagram for DSD playback.

http://www.timefordvd.com/ref/ITU.shtml

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post #15078 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTguy View Post

Will the Oppo allow you to set the center channel to none/phantom? I don't have a center and my receiver doesn't support high definition codecs so I would need to use the analog outs. So I am wondering if I could use the analog outs or if I would have to use the optical/coaxial out (receiver doesn't support HDMI). TIA.


How's that for customer service? I emailed my question to Oppo and less than an hour later they responded stating that the center channel can be disabled in the audio setup menu rerouting info to the L/R. Thanks Oppo CS!
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post #15079 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:18 PM
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Please go buy a center channel..
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post #15080 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTguy View Post

How's that for customer service? I emailed my question to Oppo and less than an hour later they responded stating that the center channel can be disabled in the audio setup menu rerouting info to the L/R. Thanks Oppo CS!

Hmmm, was that question posted HERE? I don't remember seeing that or would have replied with a yes. The center can definately be disabled to create a phantom center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvcgolf View Post

Please go buy a center channel..

Nothing wrong with a phantom center setup. There can be some minor issues with dialog away from the "sweet spot", but if done properly with good speaker placement in a treated room, and proper calibration, it can sound just as good as a setup with a center channel.

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post #15081 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:35 PM
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Re: the DSD issues: I have an Onkyo TX-SR 605 that I had NO idea could stream DSD. It's not in the manual, on line, or anywhere else...yet it accepts DSD bitstream for SACDs and works fantastically! AND I notice a difference when I switch it back to PCM, so it's not my imagination (I hope).

Any fellow Onkyo users out there who can validate this?

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post #15082 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cvcgolf View Post

Please go buy a center channel..

How dare you! J/K. A center would be nice but unfortunately it isn't an option right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Hmmm, was that question posted HERE? I don't remember seeing that or would have replied with a yes. The center can definately be disabled to create a phantom center.


Nothing wrong with a phantom center setup. There can be some minor issues with dialog away from the "sweet spot", but if done properly with good speaker placement in a treated room, and proper calibration, it can sound just as good as a setup with a center channel.


I did pose the question here. The thread moves so fast that it is easy to miss posts. But hey I realize I don't have the clout that some of the AVS celebrities do.
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post #15083 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Nothing wrong with a phantom center setup. There can be some minor issues with dialog away from the "sweet spot", but if done properly with good speaker placement in a treated room, and proper calibration, it can sound just as good as a setup with a center channel.

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post #15084 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arkangel_3 View Post

Re: the DSD issues: I have an Onkyo TX-SR 605 that I had NO idea could stream DSD. It's not in the manual, on line, or anywhere else...yet it accepts DSD bitstream for SACDs and works fantastically! AND I notice a difference when I switch it back to PCM, so it's not my imagination (I hope).

Unfortunately it is your imagination if you are using HDMI. DSD support did not become standard on Onkyo receivers until the x06 series. In the x05 series you have to step up to the TX-SR805 or higher models for SACD DSD over HDMI.

Analog may be a completely different issue, as I have read some comments from users that state that DSD from a multi-channel analog source is amplified without any conversion (A/D) or processing when using PURE DIRECT.
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post #15085 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Unfortunately it is your imagination if you are using HDMI. DSD support did not become standard on Onkyo receivers until the x06 series. In the x05 series you have to step up to the TX-SR805 or higher models for SACD DSD over HDMI.

Analog may be a completely different issue, as I have read some comments from users that state that DSD from a multi-channel analog source is amplified without any conversion (A/D) or processing when using PURE DIRECT.

I'm using HDMI...and OK, I'll take your word for it (and thanks for the info). But if so many others are having problems accessing DSD if the TV or AVR is hooked up to the Oppo...why am I not having the display "grayed out"? Btw, this was pre upgrade and pre-hack as well.

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post #15086 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

It's in the FAQ: How do I update firmware using a USB stick?

-Bill

The Oppo site could be a bit more clear. At best, it is implied, but not specifically stated.
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post #15087 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog8 View Post

I'm about to pull the trigger on a theater upgrade and I'm intrigued by the BDP-83, especially the PAL to NTSC conversion.

I read the FAQ and visited the Oppo website but it's not clear when the BPD-83 will ship. Has anyone actually bought one yet (outside of the early adopters program)? I saw a powerbuy out there for one at a site I'm not familiar with.

Also, how can I set it up to ignore SD-DVD region coding? The FAQ says "Unofficial hacked firmware and hardware modified by third parties exist but are not discussed in this FAQ" which is fairly useless.

Being a casual observer to this thread and also....someone who has spent the last 4 years overseas, please expand on the bold text above. Are you saying the 83 is region free for SD. I know the other Oppo units had that option but wasn't sure if the 83 carried it over. I have an awful lot of PAL discs in my collection but have not purchased the 83 yet. This very well may be the proverbial "straw" for me....Now what on earth did I do with that camel?
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post #15088 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkangel_3 View Post

I'm using HDMI...and OK, I'll take your word for it (and thanks for the info). But if so many others are having problems accessing DSD if the TV or AVR is hooked up to the Oppo...why am I not having the display "grayed out"? Btw, this was pre upgrade and pre-hack as well.

The BDP-83 is saving you from yourself.

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post #15089 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Being a casual observer to this thread and also....someone who has spent the last 4 years overseas, please expand on the bold text above. Are you saying the 83 is region free for SD. I know the other Oppo units had that option but wasn't sure if the 83 carried it over. I have an awful lot of PAL discs in my collection but have not purchased the 83 yet. This very well may be the proverbial "straw" for me....Now what on earth did I do with that camel?

"Region free" and converting PAL to NTSC are 2 different functions, neither of which is dependent on the other. The player is not region free, but does play PAL discs if they are all-region or no region.
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post #15090 of 39473 Old 06-23-2009, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merryvale View Post

The Oppo site could be a bit more clear. At best, it is implied, but not specifically stated.

You mean this isn't clear?
Quote:


Firmware Upgrade via a USB Thumb Drive

This information is found on every firmware release, such as the 27-0601 Firmware
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