Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 793 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post

As far as another player, I'd prefer a lower end player with only BDP capability and the ABT DVD up conversion. No 7.1 analogs, just 2 channel analog and hdmi.

I think they should be able to cut the cost of the player quite a bit if they took out all of the analog audio and video, the IR ports, and the USB ports. They could also cut some costs by not shipping the two calibration discs and the reusable bag. I also thought that the HDMI cable and power cable they shipped were overkill. I just sat there laughing at the thickness of that power cable.

For the people that need the extra features, they could keep the BDP-83, but I think the cheaper one could be a top seller. Most people I talk to can't comprehend spending $500 on a player, since the PS3 is the benchmark for most of these people.

On a cheaper player I would be afraid that they might hurt the build quality. I had been worried about where I was going to put the BDP-83, because I was out of shelves. It was so heavy duty that I had no worries about stacking a DVR on top of it. Everything else I have caves in a little with pressure from my hand, but not the 83.

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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

off topic, but you don't even have to wait until black friday...

$99 insignia player...

Yeah. Most Wal-Mart stores have been selling a $98 Magnavox player for several months.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by marconist View Post

...I have my flatscreen directly via HDMI connected to the BDP-83. This screen is non-DSD. Sound is passed through the analog output to my hifi....

Explain this further. Are you passing analog from the panel to your AVR, or from the Oppo to your AVR. If it's the panel, you are not going to get SACDs to pass through.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by marconist View Post

This is weird!

I have my flatscreen directly via HDMI connected to the BDP-83. This screen is non-DSD.
Sound is passed through the analog output to my hifi.

Your remark means I have to disconnect my screen everytime I want to play a SACD in optimum quality ???

I did some testing this morning.

HDMI direct to Sony KDS 60A2000 HD monitor.
Oppo 2ch direct to stereo preamp.

SACD set to DSD and the monitor turned off.
Using the Oppo volume control there was no reduction in volume, only mute.

SACD set to DSD and the monitor turned on.
The Oppo volume control will reduce the volume.

So to achieve DSD direct to analog leave the monitor off
With the monitor off we can't access disc info but a possible source of RFI
is eliminated.

Am I wrong?
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:52 AM
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@dirtauger

You're quire right.

I think however that it is silly that we cannot access the info on a SACD without influencing the analog output of the Oppo.
Hope they will make that adjustable in the next FW revision.
Does anyone know if Oppo support is aware of this feat already?
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

I have the BDP-83 and whenever I play SD-DVD it will start playing some scenes faster. It's subtle but everyone notices it. It's like it's skipping frames. If I hit the previous button and go back over the same scene it doesn't happen again. I can also pause it while it's happening and then hit play and this clears it up. I have an Anthem D2 processor connected to it. I've tried 24 and 60Hz with no difference. Any ideas on how to fix this? Sometimes it happens with BD but not as often.

What firmware are you using in the BDP-83? Check Setup > Device Setup > Firmware Information. If you haven't already updated to the latest official Oppo firmware release then that's the first thing you should do. There WAS a bug like this for SACD playback in older Oppo firmware as I recall, but it was fixed long ago.

Your Main Oppo firmware should be the 0925 release. Check ALL THREE version numbers for the three parts of the firmware (see the Oppo Support page for the BDP-83). There are cases where you need to do a network firmware install more than once to get all three parts updated.

Your D2 firmware should be V1.33.

I play plenty of SD-DVDs into a D2v and have never had any such problem. Nor did I have it when using a D2 during the pre-release Beta testing with the Oppo.

An HDMI cable problem will not cause playback speedup. But you can easily prove that to yourself by temporarily using Component video and Optical Digital audio from the Oppo just to see if the speedup is ever observed.

Press Select several times on the D2 remote to double check what's coming in as video resolution and frame rate -- just to be sure you really have turned off DVD/24 as you believe you have -- that you are really getting /60 into the D2. Stuttering during DVD/24 playback won't look like playback speedup, but it WILL look like frames are being skipped.

Also make sure you are not trying to convert from /60 input to /24 output in your D2. You can check that too by pressing Select on the D2 several times.

If the firmware update doesn't fix it, you should give Oppo tech support a call. You may have a hardware problem in your Oppo.
--Bob

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Old 10-31-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconist View Post

@dirtauger

You're quire right.

I think however that it is silly that we cannot access the info on a SACD without influencing the analog output of the Oppo.
Hope they will make that adjustable in the next FW revision.
Does anyone know if Oppo support is aware of this feat already?

Have you tried simply turning off HDMI Audio output from the Oppo when you want to use the Analog outputs this way?

Setup > Audio Format Setup > HDMI Audio = OFF

The player can not decode DSD to PCM for HDMI output AND maintain DSD for Analog output at the same time. But turning off the HDMI Audio output should allow your SACD DSD setting to remain in effect for Analog.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Have you tried simply turning off HDMI Audio output from the Oppo when you want to use the Analog outputs this way?

--Bob

Just did. No difference, helas.
Just to be sure I also switched power off to the player and restarted. No difference.

Removing the HDMI-plug seems the only way.
And indeed there is a small difference in sound (improvement) when the HDMI-connector is removed .......
The direct indication is of course the volumecontrol on the remote. It indeed does not function when the player is in the DSD-mode.

My FW is the latest version on the Oppo site.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:43 AM
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I'm waiting for 83 to arrive at Oppo on Tuesday. It had to go in for repair, I had major freezing and no disc error going on. I'm very pleased with their customer service so far. They actually reply to your email very quickly and try to resolve the issues with you. I had to send them 2 movies, Transformers 2 and Watchmen. Both exhibited freeze-ups with newest firmware. My 83 has been bulletproof since August but out of nowhere these issues cropped up last week. I can't wait to get it back, I also can't stay away from this thread

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Old 10-31-2009, 10:48 AM
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Small addition to "DSD":

When removing the HDMI plug from the Oppo you first have to switch power-off and on again to get the machine in de SACD-DSD-analog mode!
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconist View Post

@dirtauger

You're quire right.

I think however that it is silly that we cannot access the info on a SACD without influencing the analog output of the Oppo.
Hope they will make that adjustable in the next FW revision.
Does anyone know if Oppo support is aware of this feat already?

I agree. I am going to write it up and shoot CS an email. Perhaps if a few of us do so, we can get it on their radar. I have been following this thread for months and I think lately it the first time this has cropped up. Thanks to all who have contributed thus far in discovering and bringing this issue to light. I just recently have started using the -83 in a dedicated 2ch rig and this particular thing has been a puzzlement to me. Seems we need a way to get both DSD-->Analog conversion and NOT have to unhook our HDMI.

I had assumed that after a handshake occured, I was getting DSD to Analog conversion at my 2ch analog outputs. Now I am led to believe that as long as an HDMI cable is connected to my AVR, I am getting DSD to PCM conversion and then output to 2ch analog.

Is this correct? Am I missing anything before I bother Oppo with this?

-Kevin
"audio is a slippery slope"
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:48 AM
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It's written in the manuel that not all BD movie can be played from where it was when we stopped the movie, but i've tried about 10 and none of them has been.

What the problem.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SA1 View Post

It's written in the manuel that not all BD movie can be played from where it was when we stopped the movie, but i've tried about 10 and none of them has been.

What the problem.

BD-Java is the problem, or rather the studio and authoring houses use of it.

I heard that a recent disc (SNOW WHITE?) is a BD-J title with automatic resume. Maybe it will be a trend.

-Bill
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by vc69 View Post

I agree. I am going to write it up and shoot CS an email. Perhaps if a few of us do so, we can get it on their radar. I have been following this thread for months and I think lately it the first time this has cropped up. Thanks to all who have contributed thus far in discovering and bringing this issue to light. I just recently have started using the -83 in a dedicated 2ch rig and this particular thing has been a puzzlement to me. Seems we need a way to get both DSD-->Analog conversion and NOT have to unhook our HDMI.

I had assumed that after a handshake occured, I was getting DSD to Analog conversion at my 2ch analog outputs. Now I am led to believe that as long as an HDMI cable is connected to my AVR, I am getting DSD to PCM conversion and then output to 2ch analog.

Is this correct? Am I missing anything before I bother Oppo with this?


I agree. It also happens when you connect a non-DSD AVR to the Oppo HDMI.
I will write them too, but wait a bit if maybe Bob P. still has a suggestion.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vc69 View Post

...I am getting DSD to PCM conversion and then output to 2ch analog....

Besides level differences, do you hear a difference between the two??? Inquiring minds need to know!
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Besides level differences, do you hear a difference between the two??? Inquiring minds need to know!





I hear. In the highs. You can easily try yourself. There are no level differences.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:15 PM
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If the HDMI connection is forcing DSD to PCM conversion even with HDMI Audio turned off, then I would consider that a bug.

Go ahead and write it up for Oppo.

Although I don't think they can provide BOTH DSD to analog and PCM to HDMI at the same time, if the HDMI Audio is turned off there should be no need to force conversion to PCM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Besides level differences, do you hear a difference between the two??? Inquiring minds need to know!

Well, it's just one of those things Jim. Some can, some cannot. That really isn't the point. Some of us are purists. It's a curse. Thank goodness I am only cursed where 2ch is concerned. After reading this thread for months now, I truly feel for the videophiles.

-Kevin
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Besides level differences, do you hear a difference between the two??? Inquiring minds need to know!

This is not a question that has a universal answer. Even minute level differences can and do influence listening comparisons, not to mention that no 2 people hear the same things and mostly hear what they expect to hear.

Bottom line is that if you use analog audio outs with HDMI direct to a display you should use the PCM setting. Also good to note again that with the DSD setting you cannot get a downmix to the stereo output from 5.1 SACD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If the HDMI connection is forcing DSD to PCM conversion even with HDMI Audio turned off, then I would consider that a bug.

Go ahead and write it up for Oppo.

Although I don't think they can provide BOTH DSD to analog and PCM to HDMI at the same time, if the HDMI Audio is turned off there should be no need to force conversion to PCM.
--Bob

I think we have been over this ground before. Even with HDMI audio turned off the HDCP handshake can force PCM conversion. I thought we were told this is a limitation of the decoder chip and any resolution will have to come from MTK. Turning off HDMI audio stops the audio feed to the display, but does not prevent the handshake. My recollection may be faulty.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vc69 View Post

I had assumed that after a handshake occured, I was getting DSD to Analog conversion at my 2ch analog outputs. Now I am led to believe that as long as an HDMI cable is connected to my AVR, I am getting DSD to PCM conversion and then output to 2ch analog.

Is this correct? Am I missing anything before I bother Oppo with this?

Why don't you just turn off the AVR if using a dedicated 2ch rig? Or turn off the display if going directly to it? That's what I've always done, for "purist" reasons (edit: I mean, if we're talking about "purist" stuff like PCM vs DSD for SACD, why would you want the display on?). I mentioned this a few days ago when somebody asked. Make sure you have your HDMI gear set up so that the HDMI ports are dead in standby/off, that is always a selectable option and is "normal" if not selectable. Then you'll get your DSD to analog outs.

Totally different subject. I always rave about the 83's DVD ability. I was playing a DVD yesterday where the whole pressing were "bad". Wouldn't play a section of it on any of my other previous and current BD/DVD players, and I had exchanged it a couple times so eventually gave up. The 83 played it! I had been missing a good part, who knew!
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I think we have been over this ground before. Even with HDMI audio turned off the HDCP handshake can force PCM conversion. I thought we were told this is a limitation of the decoder chip and any resolution will have to come from MTK. Turning off HDMI audio stops the audio feed to the display, but does not prevent the handshake. My recollection may be faulty.

I don't see how that can be the case. Some firmware needs to interpret the EDID table returned by the handshake and instruct the audio decoder to turn on the conversion to PCM.

That means the firmware can simply be changed to ignore that part of the EDID if the user has HDMI Audio turned off.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

Why don't you just turn off the AVR if using a dedicated 2ch rig? Or turn off the display if going directly to it? That's what I've always done, for "purist" reasons (edit: I mean, if we're talking about "purist" stuff like PCM vs DSD for SACD, why would you want the display on?). I mentioned this a few days ago when somebody asked. Make sure you have your HDMI gear set up so that the HDMI ports are dead in standby/off, that is always a selectable option and is "normal" if not selectable. Then you'll get your DSD to analog outs.

No. You are incorrect. With my AVR (Onkyo 606 which is DSD capable btw) off the player appears to attempt a handshake and when none is possible, reverts to DSD--> PCM @stereo 2ch outputs. I have an even stranger behavior with my particular setup where it only outputs to one of the L/R outputs when set to DSD and 2ch layer priority and none of my HDMI devices are powered on. Definitely a bug I would think.
I have Monday off and plan on calling Oppo and working through this with them. I will report back here with any info I may get as I am truly grateful to all those that have done this for us in the past.

I suspect I am in a very small niche group of folks who use the player in a configuration where it is connected to both an AVR and a 2ch preamp simultaneously. I only use one or the other though. Never both at the same time. I do think it would be nice to have the display available during 2ch analog playback, but that is by no means important to me.

-Kevin
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:08 PM
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I recently received my AIX setup disc from Oppo and i tried to play it and i cannot get any sound out of it. The remote does not respond except for stop and play. I have the input set for blu-ray and HD, i use coaxl inputs since i cannot use hdmi for audio. thanks
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:17 PM
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Op- do this 1st. Unplug the Oppo from the wall. for 5 min.
#2 did the AIX work before?
#3 re install you last FW
#4 check your settings- Auto for everything -for now. Turn oFF HDMI audio. SPDIF to bitstrem Check your AVR to.....
I have Calibrated the AIX with the Oppo83 with the SPDIF.{for DVD and cablebox}.
But i too had some issues with S/PDIF at first.
This can be done all in 30 min.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vc69 View Post


I suspect I am in a very small niche group of folks who use the player in a configuration where it is connected to both an AVR and a 2ch preamp simultaneously. I only use one or the other though. Never both at the same time. I do think it would be nice to have the display available during 2ch analog playback, but that is by no means important to me.

Kevin,
I would think that our niche is not small at all (a big niche? ); anyone who has a good stereo preamp would likely want to hear their 2 channel SACD, DVD-A and Blu-Ray audio via their better preamp than their jack-of-all-trades surround processor/receiver.

I ordered my Oppo and will test it as I stated earlier. But....to reiterate, the Oppo CS guy told me that once a receiver/processor/AVR was off/standby, then no handshake would be attempted and no DSD->PCM conversion would take place. Also, of course, if a DSD-capable AVR was on, then DSD would be stabilized as well. This says my 83 -> HDMI 1.3 -> DSD-capable- Denon 3808 should provide DSD 2 channel analog in either case. I'll see once Amazon's UPS delivery arrives.
......hmmmm...gets me thinking, could some folks DSD -> PCM conversion be a result of older HDMI cables being bandwidth limited (i.e not 1.3 capable) and not supplying a DSD handshake?

Yes, Bob, the Oppo cannot simultaneously do DSD via analog and PCM via HDMI..one or the other only. So the HDMI audio off scenario should theoretically work. :confused

And yes, i can definitely hear the difference between glorious DSD and the otherwise fine PCM. On pure DSD recordings especially, the air around instruments, the dynamics, the microdetail and harmonics...the live feel...all better with no conversion. This is not to say that 24/192 or 24/176 PCM via DVD-Audio does not also sound great....it's the conversion from DSD to PCM where I hear the loss of fidelity....at least on my Modwright Denon 3910. Same was true for mch mixes on either the 3910 or my older Oppo 980 (which didn't send pure DSD to analog so that comparo is moot).

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Old 10-31-2009, 02:47 PM
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The cable should not be a factor.

The video output resolution might possibly be a factor -- although it shouldn't be if HDMI Audio is set to OFF. High bandwidth audio over HDMI requires at least 720p video resolution. I could imagine a bug where the Oppo was mistakenly switching to 2-channel, "normal" bandwidth PCM instead of DSD because it thought the output video resolution wasn't high enough to do the DSD correctly.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vc69 View Post

No. You are incorrect. With my AVR (Onkyo 606 which is DSD capable btw) off the player appears to attempt a handshake and when none is possible, reverts to DSD--> PCM @stereo 2ch outputs. I have an even stranger behavior with my particular setup where it only outputs to one of the L/R outputs when set to DSD and 2ch layer priority and none of my HDMI devices are powered on. Definitely a bug I would think.
I have Monday off and plan on calling Oppo and working through this with them. I will report back here with any info I may get as I am truly grateful to all those that have done this for us in the past.

I suspect I am in a very small niche group of folks who use the player in a configuration where it is connected to both an AVR and a 2ch preamp simultaneously. I only use one or the other though. Never both at the same time. I do think it would be nice to have the display available during 2ch analog playback, but that is by no means important to me.

Well, I am a part of that niche too. I can definitely say there is not a bug with the BDP-83 per se as it doesn't do it with mine. So it can't be the 83 by itself, hmmm? Unless yours is broken. DSD to the 2ch analog outs, DSD capable AVR connected up via HDMI, AVR turned off (standby, HDMI ports "dead"). HDMI cable is a low-end Audioquest.

Edit: are you sure your HDMI ports aren't still alive when you have the Onkyo off or in standby? (Sorry, not familiar.) I found out there were certain setups with my Denon that the HDMI ports were in fact alive even though the AVR looked to be in standby, thus still allowing the HDMI handshake.

Edit again: I also have 2ch SACD priority set up, and got both channels just fine. Go back a few pages where I say what I tested. Sounds like what you're trying to do. The BDP-83 passed perfectly. I am only saying this because going on the presumption that it's an 83 "bug" is only preventing you from determining the true cause. Unless of course there's something wrong with yours, which would be most unfortunate, but again the 83 does do what you want so it's something to look forward to. Mine is not a new model either, came with some firmware from April (but updated a couple times of course).
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:16 PM
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Is there some trick necessary to get this to output on the composite video out?

I'm in a temporary situation where I have no HDTV but we want to watch one of my BDs on a SD TV. So we're trying to use the stereo audio outs (which work fine) and the composite video (which isn't working). My understanding was all the outputs were live at all times, and that the composite video was down-converting HD to SD (by definition).

Help? Thanks.

"Your" isn't the same as "you're". "There", "their" and "they're" are also not the same. Please learn the difference.

And... it's "couldn't care less". Thank you. :)
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:19 PM
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Can't get hd video out of composite though.
So in order for ALL video outputs to actually produce video, they all have to be set to the least common denominator... 480i.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Can't get hd video out of composite though. So in order for ALL video outputs to actually produce video, they all have to be set to the least common denominator... 480i.

Ok, gotcha. Anyone have a minute to transcribe the keypresses so I can do this blind? Thanks

"Your" isn't the same as "you're". "There", "their" and "they're" are also not the same. Please learn the difference.

And... it's "couldn't care less". Thank you. :)
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sremick View Post

Ok, gotcha. Anyone have a minute to transcribe the keypresses so I can do this blind? Thanks

Depending on what res you have it set to right now...
Hit the 'resolution' button on the remote, then 'down arrow', then 'enter'.
Repeat same procedure until pic comes on screen.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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