Sony BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 Blu-ray players (and BDP-BX2) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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SONY'S NEW BLU-RAY DISC PLAYER AND HOME THEATER SYSTEMS GO WIRELESS

New Line Includes Wi-Fi Enabled Player and S-AIR Wireless Theater Systems

LAS VEGAS, March 2, 2009 - Sony is adding four new Blu-ray Disc devices to its lineup today, including a stand-alone player with Wi-Fi® capability for easy BD-Live access and Blu-ray Disc home theater systems with S-AIR wireless audio.
The BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 stand-alone players and BDV-E300 and BDV-E500W BD home theater systems deliver full HD 1080/60p and 24p True Cinema output, decode the latest advanced audio codecs, and are BD-Live capable with your broadband internet connection and purchase of external memory.
"The demands of today's home theater go beyond pristine picture quality and our new Blu-ray Disc product line offers a breadth of technologies that deliver an amazing entertainment experience," said Chris Fawcett, vice president of marketing for Sony Electronics' Home Product Division. "Consumers don't want a living room cluttered with wires and the new Blu-ray Disc product lineup breaks down the wired barriers of the past."
Offering built-in Wi-Fi wireless network capabilities (802.11N/G/B/A), the BDP-S560 can easily connect to the Internet through your existing wireless home network to download and stream BD-Live content including additional scenes, short subjects, trailers, interactive games, and more. It also enables easy firmware updates to assist in keeping your player up-to-date with the latest Blu-ray Disc media and features.
While compatible with most wireless routers, the BDP-S560 also supports Wi-Fi Protected Setup, for a quick and easy connection to enabled wireless routers. Additionally, the player is Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA®) ready, allowing it to connect to other DLNA compliant devices to share digital photos.
Since many consumers own extensive DVD movie libraries, the BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 incorporate Sony's Precision Cinema HD Upscale technology that converts standard-definition signals (480i) to near HD quality.
Additionally, the models add Sony's Precision Drive technology?, which helps to detect and correct wobbling discs from three directions, supporting stabilization of the playback of bent or scratched Blu-ray Discs and DVDs.
The BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 models support 7.1 channel Dolby® TrueHD and Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS®-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding as well as bit-stream output via HDMI.
Both players support Deep Color video output and AVCHD discs encoded with x.v.Color (xvYCC) technology. They also feature compatibility with an array of video formats, including BD-R/RE (BDMV and BDAV modes), DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW, CD, CD-R/RW (CD-DA format), and JPEG on BD/DVD/CD recordable media.
The models also offer an external port for local storage so users can add their USB flash storage device. The BDP-S560 features a front USB port for viewing photos from your USB flash memory device or directly from a digital camera.
Shipping this summer, the BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 will retail for about $300 and $350, respectively.
Styled to match the BDP-S360 and BDP-S560 with a black gloss exterior design, the HT-SS360 component home theater system is an integrated A/V receiver supporting full HD 1080p video and high resolution audio. Added to either of the new players, the theater system completes the package with 5.1 surround sound for a true cinematic experience.
The model will be available this May for about $350.

BLU-RAY HOME THEATER SYSTEMS
Sony also launched two new 5.1 channel Blu-ray Disc home theater systems, the BDV-E300 and BDV-E500W. The models are BD-Live capable and support the latest advanced audio codecs including 7.1 channel Dolby® TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus, DTS®-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding as well as bit-stream.
The BDV-E500W features integrated S-AIR wireless audio capabilities. Sony's S-AIR technology transmits audio up to 164 feet from the main system to wireless rear speakers for simple surround sound (signal and sound quality may vary) or up to 10 individual S-AIR AirStation audio devices (sold separately) throughout the home. The BDV-E300 model is S-AIR ready so users can add optional modules, also sold separately.
Both systems include Sony's Digital Media Port, which adds control and connectivity options for music playback through various accessories, including a cradle for iPod® players which is packaged with each system, or an optional Network Walkman cradle, a PC client device, and a Bluetooth® adapter (each sold separately).
The models include an easy set-up DVD, eliminating any confusion during the set up process. Also, Sony's BRAVIA® Sync technology simplifies every day operation with one-button command of compatible home theater components through HDMI.
The models also feature Sony's Xross Media Bar (XMB) graphic user interface for easy menu navigation, Precision Drive technology, Precision Cinema Upscaling technology, and a USB port allowing users to add their external flash memory for BD-Live features. The units ship with an easy set-up DVD for step-by-step instruction on initial set up process.
The BDV-E300 and BDV-E500W ship in June for about $600 and $800, respectively.
All of the new models will be offered at Sony Style stores, online at www.sonystyle.com, at military base exchanges, and at authorized retailers nationwide.


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post #2 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 08:58 PM
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Interesting news.

But let me get this straight - they're adding DLNA support and the extent of the new functionality is sharing photos? With DLNA support and XMB navigation, it could do a decent job as a networked video device.
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post #3 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 09:50 PM
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Sounds good. Looking forward to the reviews on them...

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post #4 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 09:55 PM
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The front reminds me a little of the Panasonic BD30/50.

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post #5 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 11:02 PM
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Nice.

Many homes already have a Wi-Fi router in place, but it's a hassle to have to hook up a wired Ethernet bridge of some type for your BD player; that's also what has stopped me from adding a BD player to a second TV.

All for a street price that will likely be a bit lower than that for the 550.
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post #6 of 1364 Old 03-02-2009, 11:08 PM
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Quote:


The front reminds me a little of the Panasonic BD30/50.

No, like the Sony Recorder in Japan. I like the finish. Much better than the S350 and S550. I will buy the S560, when it´s out.
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post #7 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 09:47 AM
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The big question for me would be if the 560 still has analog output! I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a 550, but would wait if the 560 still retains analog outputs.
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post #8 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 09:50 AM
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RayWindu, I'm in the same boat.
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post #9 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayWindu View Post

The big question for me would be if the 560 still has analog output! I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a 550, but would wait if the 560 still retains analog outputs.

It looks like the Sonystyle website already has the pictures for this unit. It doesn't look like there is multichannel analog out.
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post #10 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 12:06 PM
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I saw that too doing a compare w/ the 550 on the sonystyle site. So the 560 is $50 cheaper than the 550, but leaves out the analog output. Disappointing...unless there are hardware differences that affect PQ and sound!!???
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post #11 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 02:11 PM
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So basically it sounds like if you want analog outs and no wi-fi, then you should go with the 550. If you prefer wi-fi and no analog outs, you should go with the 560. Am I correct with this assumption?
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post #12 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 02:42 PM
 
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Wow! I like that, our setup has wires going everywhere even though we try to hide them it would be nice to minimize them as much a possible.

[IMG]http://z09a0222gshv273.imageshacknow.info/img/3056************************[/IMG]
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post #13 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 02:53 PM
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At $350.00 list, I'm buying one anyway to replace my PS3. If this player is a stud performer, I could put one in every room at that price. With its wi-fi capability, less cables.
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post #14 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlund83 View Post

It looks like the Sonystyle website already has the pictures for this unit. It doesn't look like there is multichannel analog out.

I too am disappointed at the apparent lack of 7.1 analog outputs in the S560. The photo of the rear panel on the Sonystyle site for the S560 doesn't seem to indicate any sort of wifi antenna connection either. Is that not necessary? Will the signal work ok with the player in a cabinet assuming the antenna is inside the case somewhere? I confess I am kind of hoping that rear panel picture is actually a S360 . . . why would the 560 require a taller case than the 360 if the rear panel connectors are the same?
Why does it matter if a player can "decode" DTS HD MA internally - if there are no analog outputs? Won't it still either bitstream lossless audio over hdmi or send the core 5.1 digital signal via optical digital?

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #15 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 04:58 PM
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I just noticed something when comparing both the S560 and S360 spec's. Regarding DTS-MA, it doesnt state it is able decode it. It states it is able to bitstream it. Its specific when being able to decode Dolby TrueHD, but not DTS-MA. Isn't that the way the S550 started out as? Below is a screenshot of what I am referring to.


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post #16 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 05:28 PM
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ALL players from here on out will internally decode DTS MA. This will be a null point in about 2 months as it won't be a "premium" anymore.
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post #17 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

I too am disappointed at the apparent lack of 7.1 analog outputs in the S560. The photo of the rear panel on the Sonystyle site for the S560 doesn't seem to indicate any sort of wifi antenna connection either. Is that not necessary? Will the signal work ok with the player in a cabinet assuming the antenna is inside the case somewhere? I confess I am kind of hoping that rear panel picture is actually a S360 . . . why would the 560 require a taller case than the 360 if the rear panel connectors are the same?
Why does it matter if a player can "decode" DTS HD MA internally - if there are no analog outputs? Won't it still either bitstream lossless audio over hdmi or send the core 5.1 digital signal via optical digital?

To answer three of your questions...

On WiFi, for most applications, an external WiFi antenna is not required. Many (if not most) of the consumer wireless-N routers out there only have an internal antenna. Also, look at the iPhone as an example of a device with WiFi but no protruding antenna.

Regarding the case height, if you look at the photos above, the entire difference in height can be accounted for with the front USB port.

Finally, regarding DTS HD vs analog, with most new hardware moving to (if not already moved to) HDMI, having analog output probably didn't make sense to Sony for their consumer grade product, which the 560 is certainly in the category of. Still, it makes sense to decode any format possible and send it out as multichannel PCM over HDMI in case the downstream device (tuner or TV) is unable to handle that type of decoding.

For me personally, the announcement of the 360 and 560 just stopped me dead in my tracks on purchasing a 350. I was probably within three weeks of making a purchase but for the lower price point and getting rid of that hideous blue finish I can wait a couple more months.
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post #18 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 07:38 PM
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If you need 7.1 analog outputs, the Oppo will be out soon. There are other players that have this feature. I have a modern pre-pro which doesn't require eight expensive analog RCA cables. I have a SACD player that cost less than the cables. This new S560 is just what I need to replace my PS3.
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post #19 of 1364 Old 03-03-2009, 11:24 PM
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...or wait for the BDP-S760 in October;

http://www.avforums.com/forums/8865638-post1.html
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post #20 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffOfInterest View Post

To answer three of your questions...

On WiFi, for most applications, an external WiFi antenna is not required. Many (if not most) of the consumer wireless-N routers out there only have an internal antenna. Also, look at the iPhone as an example of a device with WiFi but no protruding antenna.

Regarding the case height, if you look at the photos above, the entire difference in height can be accounted for with the front USB port.

Finally, regarding DTS HD vs analog, with most new hardware moving to (if not already moved to) HDMI, having analog output probably didn't make sense to Sony for their consumer grade product, which the 560 is certainly in the category of. Still, it makes sense to decode any format possible and send it out as multichannel PCM over HDMI in case the downstream device (tuner or TV) is unable to handle that type of decoding.

For me personally, the announcement of the 360 and 560 just stopped me dead in my tracks on purchasing a 350. I was probably within three weeks of making a purchase but for the lower price point and getting rid of that hideous blue finish I can wait a couple more months.

Thanks for the info. I have a 350 - and I'm happy to report that the "hideous blue finish" isn't hideous at all in real life - it is far more subdued than the photos floating around the internet indicate. And it's been a great bargain priced player for me, so far. My interest was in upgrading to a player with analog outs to experiment with lossless audio codecs using my Yamaha RX-V1 (tons of quality power, but no hdmi). It looks like these new Sony models will not serve for my situation, so I'll watch for a bargain priced S550, or some other manufacturer I guess. Or wait and see how the suggested model 760 shakes out.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #21 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 12:37 PM
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Im sorry to be a noob and an ignoramus, but I dont understand the implications of BDP-S360 onboard audio codec processing of 7.1 channel dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (as well as DTS-HD) as well as bit-stream output via HDMI.

Would this give you full lossless 7.1 audio out of this Blu-Ray player via the optical port to plug into "dumber" 7.1 HDMI Passthrough recievers like Onkyo TX-SR506?

Seems like if the Blue-Ray player can decode the codecs then it should just pass 7.1 channels of fully decoded (and therefore awesome!) bits over optical to the reciever (PCM??)

Sorry, this stuff is new to me and a bit baffling.
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post #22 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikojava View Post

Im sorry to be a noob and an ignoramus, but I dont understand the implications of BDP-S360 onboard audio codec processing of 7.1 channel dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (as well as DTS-HD) as well as bit-stream output via HDMI.

Would this give you full lossless 7.1 audio out of this Blu-Ray player via the optical port to plug into "dumber" 7.1 HDMI Passthrough recievers like Onkyo TX-SR506?

Seems like if the Blue-Ray player can decode the codecs then it should just pass 7.1 channels of fully decoded (and therefore awesome!) bits over optical to the reciever (PCM??)

Sorry, this stuff is new to me and a bit baffling.

Optical (and digital coax) cannot do what you are asking (for DRM reasons more than technical).

Optical/coax SPDIF is limited to 5.1 DD or DTS only, or 2.0 LPCM.

For the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, you need either HDMI (not passthrough) or analog 5.1/7.1 inputs. If HDMI, you can decode to 5.1/7.1 LPCM in the player, or, if your receiver is capable of decoding, send the raw bitstream to the receiver and let it decode.

Sorry,

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post #23 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 01:26 PM
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First of all, Shinksma THANK YOU for your prompt and knowledgeable reply... I had suspected there would be some issue around DRM. Bah, stupid hollywood studios.

Apparently this Blu-Ray player doesnt have analog outputs, so youd need a reciever that can either decode the full audio signal to 7.1 or take the 7.1LCPM. I guess decoding in the Blu-Ray player doesnt buy you much...

I found some great info (of course in these forums) about this topic here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511

for those like myself who are trying to wrap our heads around what we get from these new players with their "fency" technology to decode these new audio formats and how to plug them into our audio systems.

My ignorant reading of this link suggests that all you would need is level 2, per the below:

Levels of Receivers:

Level 1
5.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1 analog input channels and provide all three processing stages on digital sources.

Examples: Virtually all 5.1 receivers.

Level 2
7.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1 analog inputs, and provide all three processing stages on digital sources.

Level 3
7.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1 analog inputs, and 5.1 HDMI PCM but can't perform surround processing on PCM digital sources.

Examples: Panasonic XR57 (no processing at all).

Level 3.5 (added late in the game)
7.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 7.1 analog inputs, and 5.1 HDMI PCM but can't perform surround processing on PCM digital sources.

Examples: Onkyo x04 series.

Level 4
7.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1/7.1 analog inputs, and 7.1 HDMI PCM but can't perform surround processing on PCM digital sources.

Examples: Panasonic XR700 (no processing at all). Onkyo 605. Sony STR-DG810 and higher.

which could suck in 7.1 HDMI PCM and just eat the pre-processed goodieness coming out of these players.

Just to state the obvious, I am trying to determine how to run the audio output of these players through to a 7.1 audio system and capture every bit of the lossless audio master ... Looks like Sony basically mandates this will be done over HDMI given the back panel of these players... so the reciever needs to eat 7.1LPCM and spit out 7.1 analog I guess... ?

Miko
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post #24 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 06:50 PM
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Hi Mikojava:

Level 2 doesn't get you 7.1 inputs via lossless (5.1 analog inputs only). You'd be looking at what is termed a Level 3.5 or higher receiver.

It really depends on what features you want in your receiver: some folks prefer to have the audio received via HDMI (streamed or already decoded to LPCM) so that various other things can be done such as bass management, enhanced surround modes, etc can be applied. If the receiver gets the audio via analogs (7.1 or 5.1) there are usually fewer options for what you can do. I prefer HDMI for cabling simplicity too - makes things a lot less cluttered.

If you are just looking for the most basic way to get the full 7.1 lossless stuff to your speakers, a 7.1 receiver with HDMI paired with an HDMI player may actually be the cheapest method: players with 7.1 analog outs and receivers with 7.1 analog inputs are often a step up from the basic HDMI connections, these days. For example, a Sony BDP-S350 or 360 paired with an Onkyo 605 will run you about $600, I think, total. The S350/360 will bitstream everything to the receiver, which will decode the advanced lossless formats into 7.1 for you.

Just an example. It really depends on what other features you want in your player and/or receiver. Receiver: Audyssey, other DSP sound processing. Player: load times, SD DVD quality, etc.

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post #25 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 10:42 PM
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I'm really appreciative that someone with your knowledge and experience would quickly answer noobish questions like mine.

Yes definitely HDMI is the way to go, so much data, so little cable...

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for... so something like a Marantz SR4002 could take in 7.1 lossless as long as the Blu-Ray player could decode it into LPCM over HDMI first? Marantz SR4002 doesnt itself have the codecs.

Or is something like Onkyo 605 my best bet because it has all of the decoders in it already?

Looks like these new blu-ray players and even the PS3 can send LPCM after decoding lossless formats (PS3 can do it as of Firmware update 2.3)


Thx
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post #26 of 1364 Old 03-04-2009, 11:36 PM
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BDP-S360

Hmmm, I wonder if anyone at the Microsoft camp is pissy yet.


When will these actually be out? I need a Blu-Ray player.
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post #27 of 1364 Old 03-05-2009, 01:59 AM
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post #28 of 1364 Old 03-05-2009, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikojava View Post

I'm really appreciative that someone with your knowledge and experience would quickly answer noobish questions like mine.

Yes definitely HDMI is the way to go, so much data, so little cable...

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for... so something like a Marantz SR4002 could take in 7.1 lossless as long as the Blu-Ray player could decode it into LPCM over HDMI first? Marantz SR4002 doesnt itself have the codecs.

Or is something like Onkyo 605 my best bet because it has all of the decoders in it already?

Looks like these new blu-ray players and even the PS3 can send LPCM after decoding lossless formats (PS3 can do it as of Firmware update 2.3)


Thx

If you're looking at these new Sony BD players, then any receiver that takes 7.1 LPCM via HDMI is good. So the Marantz is a good choice (AFAIK), but the Onkyo is fine too - depends on which price you can get for what receiver, and maybe other features of the receivers. (For example, I wanted a receiver with 4 HDMI inputs, so I waited for the Onkyo 606 last year.)

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post #29 of 1364 Old 03-05-2009, 08:39 AM
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That's what I thought!

Hats off Shinksma... many thanks.

Hopefullly didnt take the thread too far off track, at least folks interested in the 7.1 lossless audio processing capabilities of these new Blu-Ray players will have a deeper understanding of what a "compatible" home theatre audio system would look like.

FYI i got
So I got an
Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 Reciever ($250 cash to a guy off Craigslist)
Energy Take Classic 5 Speakers ($200 to World Wide Stereo, free ship)
BIC Acoustech H-100 (eBay $259 shipped)

So I hopped over the Marantz and went Onkyo...

Thanks!
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post #30 of 1364 Old 03-05-2009, 09:08 AM
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Just my opinion, and as such may be limited to just me, buuuuuttt....

These new players just seem like one step closer to becoming a PS3 - something that has been out for 2-years already. In effect, the 560 sounds like it is a PS3 minus the graphical/gaming capabilities...especially when considering the lack of 7.1 analog out. I simply do not understand how or why any PS3 owner would want to replace it with one of these.

Am I missing something? Someone clue me in as to what the "new" 560 would provide a PS3 owner above and beyond what the PS3 already provides? (And provides quite well, I might add...)

Again, maybe it's just me, but if I were going to spend my money on an piece of electronics gear, I wouldn't do so just to REPLACE a component; it would HAVE to be an UPGRADE.

Oh well. To each their own.

-Paul
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Blu Ray Players , Sony Bdp S360 1080p Blu Ray Disc Player Accessory Kit , Sony Bdp S560 1080p Blu Ray Disc Player , Sony , Sony Bdv T11 Home Theater System
Gear in this thread - S560 by PriceGrabber.com

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