Official Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 Owners Thread - Page 171 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by davyo View Post

So Im hooking up my BD60 to my just purchased Sony HT-SS360 5.1 system via HDMI and Im not 100% sure on the settings I should be using on the BD60.

Im sure I will get bitched at and and told to do a search and I did, but stiil was not sure of the settings.
If some one could answer my settings questions or direct me to a settings page that I did not find in my search's that would be great.

Example's of some of the settings Im un-sure of to send to my Sony HT-SS360.
Dynamic Range Compression set to OFF ?
Digital Audio Output,,,,PCM, not Bitstream ?
PCM Down Conversion ??
BD-Video Secondary Audio ??

Sorry for the dumbass settings questions.

Cheers
Davyo

BITCH, BITCH, BITCH!

Just kidding.

I hope my posts from those much brighter than me will help you draw your own conclusion regarding bitstream vs. PCM.

As far as Range Compression, I have this off. I want to rock. If I were listen while others were trying to sleep, I would try it. But for me, it would be very much the exception, and not the rule.

As far as Secondary Audio, the BD60 manual itself says to turn this off for the highest quality sound. I am not sure why, and it would be great to hear from others that understand.

Speaking of which.. I have no clue about PCM downconversion. I don't even know what it is or what it does, let alone whether or not we should be using it. HINT HINT...

Good luck, and have a little fun experimenting.

Nick
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:11 AM
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:13 AM
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

They were right if we talk exclusively about movies. But for acoustical music (jazz, classical) difference is very significant even on moderately priced (under $5000) setup.

Please share the test results that lead you to this conclusion.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

As far as Range Compression, I have this off. I want to rock. If I were listen while others were trying to sleep, I would try it. But for me, it would be very much the exception, and not the rule.

That's correct. DRC reduces dynamic range, which can be helpful in some situations. But, it should not be used otherwise.

Quote:


As far as Secondary Audio, the BD60 manual itself says to turn this off for the highest quality sound. I am not sure why, and it would be great to hear from others that understand.

When secondary audio is set to On, the Panasonic players use lossy tracks instead of the lossless ones. That's why the manual advises setting secondary audio to Off to get the highest quality.

Quote:


Speaking of which.. I have no clue about PCM downconversion. I don't even know what it is or what it does, let alone whether or not we should be using it. HINT HINT...

This affects the sampling rate used with PCM. CDs use 44.1 kHz sampling rates. Most movies are encoded at 48k rates. But, some discs have higher rates - 96k or even 192k. PCM downconversion is used to limit the sampling rate of the PCM output to 48k if the attached receiver cannot handle the higher rates.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:30 AM
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Thanks, B.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

Based on Bob's logic, as well as my receiver's inability to decode and apply Audyssey settings, I will continue to output PCM to my receiver. I hope you find these comments as enlightening as I did.

BobL is absolutely correct about the PCM output of lossless decoding being the same regardless of whether it takes place in a player or receiver. But, the important point here is that you need to know the specific capabilities of your player and receiver in order to make an informed decision about player vs. receiver decoding. There are all sorts of different limitations in how players and AVRs process audio. In some cases, the receiver can do a better job of processing PCM that it decodes and in others it has more capabilities when the source from the player is PCM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

So Im hooking up my BD60 to my just purchased Sony HT-SS360 5.1 system via HDMI and Im not 100% sure on the settings I should be using on the BD60.

Im sure I will get bitched at and and told to do a search and I did, but stiil was not sure of the settings.
If some one could answer my settings questions or direct me to a settings page that I did not find in my search's that would be great.

Example's of some of the settings Im un-sure of to send to my Sony HT-SS360.
Dynamic Range Compression set to OFF ?
Digital Audio Output,,,,PCM, not Bitstream ?
PCM Down Conversion ??
BD-Video Secondary Audio ??

Can your Sony sound system decode TrueHD and dts-MA? That affects a couple of the settings you are asking about.
Secondary audio needs to be off in order to get lossless playback.
PCM downconversion only matters if you are using a PCM output. If so, that setting should only be on if your AVR cannot handle 96kHz sampling rates.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Please share the test results that lead you to this conclusion.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 11.15)
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 11.15)

He who hath response graph provideth proof. - Stephen 1.1

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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Old 12-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

He who hath response graph provideth proof. - Stephen 1.1

Amen, brother. Amen.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 11.15)

In other words, I don't care what blind listening tests or response curves show. If you can't hear how much better A is than B, you are deaf or a liar. By the way, how are tube receivers selling these days?
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 11.15)

Thanks. I would never doubt that you hear what you hear. However, you made a rather definitive statement of fact - that the referenced article, using fairly rigorous test conditions, does not apply to music. So, I was curious about whether you were offering something more than your own personal observation there. I guess not.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Rather than answer it again, here's a link to a definitive list of differences between the BD60 and BD80 and explanation of them:

Difference between DMP-BD60 and DMP-BD80 Panasonic Blu-ray Players

-CB

One difference this link fails to mention is that the BD80 includes digital out on coax, whereas the BD60 does not.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:08 AM
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One difference this link fails to mention is that the BD80 includes digital out on coax, whereas the BD60 does not.

I didn't see anything worthwhile (for me) to justify the 80, except for that playback information the 80 has. I like being able to see that stuff like I can on the PS3. Oh, well....not going through the trouble to exchange it now.

I'd be amazed to see proof of the "high clarity audio" setting's worthiness.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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Old 12-10-2009, 10:12 AM
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I have to say I am really liking this blu-ray player. I am using the DMP-BD60 (walmart stock number 601k or whatever) in combo with a Philips 120Hz 52" LCD and its a blast. Watched Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and it was amazing how it looked.

Need to go look up more about some of the settings. I was playing a bit the display option button and saw a variety of video and audio settings there. Will have a good time soon enough, plan to rent Terminator Salvation in blu-ray.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cainlord View Post

I have to say I am really liking this blu-ray player. I am using the DMP-BD60 (walmart stock number 601k or whatever) in combo with a Philips 120Hz 52" LCD and its a blast. Watched Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and it was amazing how it looked.

Need to go look up more about some of the settings. I was playing a bit the display option button and saw a variety of video and audio settings there. Will have a good time soon enough, plan to rent Terminator Salvation in blu-ray.

It's definitely a good player for the money.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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Old 12-10-2009, 10:38 AM
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I bought a Panosonic Tcp58s1 plasma and got the free Blue Ray player. Is there anyway of checking the firmware version with out hooking it up to the Internet?
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:03 AM
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I bought a Panosonic Tcp58s1 plasma and got the free Blue Ray player. Is there anyway of checking the firmware version with out hooking it up to the Internet?

Sure, you don't need internet to check the firmware. You can update the firmware using the internet or through a CD burned with a downloaded file.

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Old 12-10-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post

I bought a Panosonic Tcp58s1 plasma and got the free Blue Ray player. Is there anyway of checking the firmware version with out hooking it up to the Internet?

Just go into the menu.... and look for firmware version.

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Old 12-10-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

We all know that with this particular series of receivers, we have to make a choice. Either we let the receiver process the bitstream audio signal and give up using the Audyssey EQ settings, or we have our players do the decoding and enjoy the benefits of Audyssey.

ok this is news to me. I will be picking up a BD60 to pair with a Denon 790. So if I choose to output using bitsream, it will disable the Denon 790's Audyssey EQ settings? That does not sound right. Someone please enlighten me.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:46 AM
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ok this is news to me. I will be picking up a BD60 to pair with a Denon 790. So if I choose to output using bitsream, it will disable the Denon 790's Audyssey EQ settings? That does not sound right. Someone please enlighten me.


That doesn't sound right..I got the BD-60 paired to a Denon 989 and I have it set to bitstream and the audessy is applied to it..like it's supposed to.

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Old 12-10-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

ok this is news to me. I will be picking up a BD60 to pair with a Denon 790. So if I choose to output using bitsream, it will disable the Denon 790's Audyssey EQ settings? That does not sound right. Someone please enlighten me.

Don't worry, your Denon will keep the EQ settings.

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Old 12-10-2009, 11:50 AM
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I have a Marantz SR6003. From what I have learned, it has a tiny brain. I can't decode and apply Audyssey. I have to pick either or. I don't know a lot about Denons, but I believe all but the most humble can do both. So you do not have to choose.

Nick
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post

I bought a Panosonic Tcp58s1 plasma and got the free Blue Ray player. Is there anyway of checking the firmware version with out hooking it up to the Internet?

Yes you can check the current firmware on your player without being hooked up to the internet . I cant remember step by step but its in your owners manual and very easy to check, you want the 2.2 version and more than likely you have 1.9 or 2.0 on yours currently.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

I am learning that the preferred way, if there is such a thing, is truly up for debate. Here is a cut and paste from the receiver forum that fleshes out this issue. These are the comments of AVS Special Member BobL:

There is no advantage to having ANY receiver decode the True HD and DTS master formats. Once decoded the bits are the same, that's what lossless is. It doesn't matter which device decodes it the player or the receiver. There can be advantages with lossy formats but not the lossless ones.

In fact it can be a disadvantage in some cases for secondary audio programs and BD-Live material where the audio is mixed into the sound track and sent via PCM stream. Players have no way of encoding that information into the lossless formats so you lose that functionality of your player when you set them to bitstream.

A little history: In the past Bitstream was preferred over PCM because PCM was only stereo and bitstream was the only choice for multi-channel playback. When encoding a lossy format such as Dolby Digital or DTS bits are thrown away. So some of the information is lost and it will never be returned. When a device decodes these formats it might try to guess at the information thrown away and add it back in. This is a simplification of course but the reality is some decoders did a better job than others.

In the past you would have to decide which device (player or receiver) had the better decoder, DACs, analog circuitry, etc. MOST of the time the receiver would do the better job and bitstream was the better choice over having the player decode it and send it out analog.

Set your player to PCM no matter which receiver you use. Bitstream is old world thinking and offers no advantages for newer formats.

Why would you want to limit your Blu-ray's features by using bitstream? It was designed for PCM and for the player to do the decoding so that it can mix audio streams. This can't be done using bitstream. I will say that not many discs use these features currently but that will increase as time goes on, especially with internet connectivity on these players. Bitstream is old world thinking.

It is possible that someone will try to make a dirt cheap player that doesn't do the decoding but with brand name players currently <$150 I doubt it would make a big cost difference. The big cost difference in the past wasn't the decoding but the DACs and analog circuitry.

Look at the cheap $25 DVD players many don't have component outputs. This is more analog circuitry and more connectors which cost money. If everything is all digital the cost is minimal especially as it will all be integrated into one chip (if it hasn't already) and they are not going to eliminate the HDMI port. They will more likely make a player with just an HDMI port and no other audio or video connections to save money.

I would want a receiver that can handle or at least pass a 1.3/1.4 signals along to the display for future capabilities coming in video. You will not see any players that don't have decoders, it is needed for Blu-ray's features and part of the specs.

BR is designed to have interactive capabilities and to achieve that it needs to be able to mix audio. To mix audio it needs to decode to PCM first then mix whatever audio it would like. It might be a sound effect for an interactive game, some type of secondary audio such as a director's comment that overlays the original soundtrack or possibly some other interactive feature from the internet. So not having decoders is not possible. Old world thinking again

Current BR discs only need HDMI version 1.0 to play 1080P with 8 channels of audio. I predict we will see a new BR version to handle media with the new capabilities of HDMI 1.3/1.4 (3D, higher resolutions, greater color bit depth, higher frame rates, etc). I also predict more HDMI problems with these greater bandwidths

So we will all be upgrading again in the future

It all eventually gets decoded to PCM, it doesn't matter which device does the decoding with LOSSLESS formats. The bits that exist before they are encoded are the same after they are decoded. Louder will always appear more clear and more dynamic. If you switch between bitstream and PCM you do need to level match before testing.

With Marantz there are differences as one can apply EQ and one can't. The differences will be how good or bad a job the EQ did for the sound in your room.

I agree there can be differences with Lossy formats but I'm not willing to sacrifice BR functionality for possibly slightly better sound when playing a DVD.

Based on Bob's logic, as well as my receiver's inability to decode and apply Audyssey settings, I will continue to output PCM to my receiver. I hope you find these comments as enlightening as I did. Take care.

Nick

Thanks Nick for the in deph reply and that pretty much explains it and now im at square 1 again lol j/k actualy that makes alot of sense. I think i'll keep mine set at bitstream from bd player to the avr and let the AVR do the work since im running a Pioneer Elite 94 and should handle it just fine. Thanks again for the reply. Ed
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony3d View Post

I bought a Panosonic Tcp58s1 plasma and got the free Blue Ray player. Is there anyway of checking the firmware version with out hooking it up to the Internet?

From the download instructions at the support site.

1) Press the [POWER] button on the player to turn it ON.
2) Press the [SETUP] button on the remote control to display the player's MENU.
3) Using the [UP ARROW] or [DOWN ARROW] on the remote control, highlight DISPLAY and then press [OK].
4) Press and hold the [STATUS] button on the remote control to display the current firmware version in the lower right corner of the DISPLAY screen.


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Old 12-10-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

I have a Marantz SR6003. From what I have learned, it has a tiny brain. I can't decode and apply Audyssey. I have to pick either or. I don't know a lot about Denons, but I believe all but the most humble can do both. So you do not have to choose.

Nick

I had the 6003 until my new receiver came in yesterday, but was also using the PS3, so I was running PCM anyway. However, to be honest, I liked the sound of the Marantz better without Audyssey engaged. It gave it a thin and less dynamic sound. I've seen others post similar results about Audyssey. Hopefully everyone is trying their setups with and without it to see what they like better. I think it's simply assumed that it must sound better with it on.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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Old 12-10-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanaris View Post

That doesn't sound right..I got the BD-60 paired to a Denon 989 and I have it set to bitstream and the audessy is applied to it..like it's supposed to.

That's what I thought. Just out of curiosity, how do you know and confirm that Audyssey EQ is indeed applied?
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

I had the 6003 until my new receiver came in yesterday, but was also using the PS3, so I was running PCM anyway. However, to be honest, I liked the sound of the Marantz better without Audyssey engaged. It gave it a thin and less dynamic sound. I've seen others post similar results about Audyssey. Hopefully everyone is trying their setups with and without it to see what they like better. I think it's simply assumed that it must sound better with it on.

I agree 100%. It really comes down to what the individual likes. And since we are all, for the most part, pretty big nerds, isn't it FUN to play with different settings? For me, it's kind of a game to see if I can, #1, tell the difference and, #2 decide which I prefer. Then I torture the GF with A/B comparisons.

My 6003 is brand new and blows away anything I ever had before. I am almost, but not quite, afraid to ask what you replaced your 6003 with. If you don't mind, please share with me your decision making process. I guess is is never too early to begin thinking about taking it to the next level.

Nick
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