Official Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 Owners Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 8257 Old 03-27-2009, 08:29 PM
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To some of you trusted experts (Kris Deering, Chris Boylan, Dave Vaughn, etc), how would you rate upconversion on the BD60/80 vs a Samsung 2500 or an Oppo 983 (or BD-83 if you have had the chance to get your hands on it)?
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post #152 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 03:49 AM
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I just purchased a BD60 and I love the PQ. Its my first BR player and was wondering why my older dvd movies that are wide screen being forced to full screen. Is there any way around this? I tried a few things and nothing seems to work?
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post #153 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 06:57 AM
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I think I remember seeing a setup option on the BD-60 to force full or widescreen. Not positive, but there was something to that effect on the initial setup.
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post #154 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

"At times, while watching well-mastered DVDs such as Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith I almost forgot that I was watching standard definition content, the upconversion was that good."

I agree...when I put in Episode 3 it looked absolutely stunning...best upconversion by far...looked like I was watching a Blu Ray version of the movie...if all standard DVD's were mastered this way then there would almost be no need for Blu-Ray

This is great news that more members understand the benefits of 24p playback!
Its easier on the eyes to view smooth motion rather than the judder/jerky motion induced by legacy 60Hz playback.

Even better having variety of stunning playback options creates a choice for what format to purchase or just rent. To keep costs manageable, I read the both the low and high rated reviews at Amazon to complement the professional reviews.
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post #155 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 07:30 AM
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[quote=HiFiFun;16136488]

According to Kris the Panasonic models 35/60/80 are the only released blu-ray players to output DVD at 24p.
QUOTE]

Not true, the Pioneer 09 and the Oppo 83 do it.

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post #156 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 07:34 AM
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Do the BD60 & BD80 have the same video processor?
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post #157 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

And thank god for that. I personally HATE frame interpolation as it takes film and makes it look like your afternoon soap operas. If this feature was to go away today I would be a very happy camper.

Also, if cadence detection was a strong point of the video processing in the display, it shouldn't matter if the source material is coming in at 24p, the display should be able to do it with any source regardless of the refresh rate.

Hate is way to strong of a word for me to use.
I don't enjoy seeing the blur of pixels changing state even in the top rated JVC front projectors. After you don't see the degradation then its too easy to see!

Its a scientific fact that twenty-four frames a second is inadequate to recreate believable fast motion without assistance. Was it was selected in the 1920's? Would there be objection even if filmmakers were to increase the frame rate? I think so!

I say down with blur and jerkiness artifacts in motion pictures. Just because we are used to seeing it, does not make it right. Education take time so patience is required. But not to worry as the long term outcome is guaranteed as an many player (read Panasonic) and display manufactures strive for 1080 lines of clarity in every frame.
I saw the original Godfather and The Robe on blu-ray using my BD-35 set to 24p, then being upsampled to 120Hz in the display. It was stunning seeing such color, detail and all the 1080 resolution. The many positive attributes of the film-look were still intact and made for one thrilling viewing experience.

Technically speaking, the pixel-perfect motion processing allowed the high ANSI contrast to be maintained, providing a natural 3D effect especially during motion.
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post #158 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

This is great news that more members understand the benefits of 24p playback!
Its easier on the eyes to view smooth motion rather than the judder/jerky motion induced by legacy 60Hz playback.

unfortunately my Samsung HL-S5087W set does not support 1080p 24...my set is 1080p 30...with my new BD60 player, in the settings menu there is an option to change playback to 24p output but I cannot change it because of the limitations on my HDTV...too bad because it would be nice to have that feature
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post #159 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 09:35 AM
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From what I have read though, many HDTV's support 24p but convert it to 60fps so is this really a moot point?
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post #160 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDazedx View Post

From what I have read though, many HDTV's support 24p but convert it to 60fps so is this really a moot point?

I would say it's the other way around now. Most new HDTVs that support 24Hz input have some means of allowing multiple refresh rate of 24 (72, 96, 120) without conversion to 60fps. It may not be the default processing (specially with 120Hz sets), the they are there.

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post #161 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

CNET updated their review of the BD60:
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-player...-33490457.html

Basically saying it's the same as the BD35 with internet capabilities.

But they dropped their rating from 4 stars to 3 stars because of competitor offerings like wi-fi, netflix,... The BD60 is my first BR player but it does all I need (and very well).
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post #162 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDazedx View Post

From what I have read though, many HDTV's support 24p but convert it to 60fps so is this really a moot point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

I would say it's the other way around now. Most new HDTVs that support 24Hz input have some means of allowing multiple refresh rate of 24 (72, 96, 120) without conversion to 60fps. It may not be the default processing (specially with 120Hz sets), the they are there.

While a good percentage (40%, 50%? Dunno, just guessing) of current 1080p models support 1080p24, the vast majority of HDTVs in people's homes do not support it, or convert any 1080p24 input onto 1080p60 for display.

1080p24 was a very rare thing prior to the 2007/2008 model years. My Sammy 71 series was one of the first "not too extortionately priced" LCDs to support it, and it was buggy at first (works fine now though).

However, I bet the % of folks here at AVS Forum that have displays that support 24p is much higher than the general population.

AFAIK,

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post #163 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 10:16 AM
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I bought the Panasonic TH-50PZ85U a few weeks ago which I have read does the below. I was surprised because when I was buying it, I made sure it supported 24p which is does according to the docs. Then I found a review here http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1008panapz85u/ which explained it in more detail.

The set displays sources up to 1080p/60p. Unlike Panasonic's previous sets, it produces a viewable image with 1080p/24 program material. But it converts any 24-fps input to 60 fps, by adding 3:2 pulldown prior to display. Any Blu-ray player does the same thing when you select 1080p rather than 1080p/24. (Most movies on Blu-ray Discs are 24 fps.) Whether the conversion happens in the set or in the player, it defeats the benefit of 24-fps sources (which can subtly smooth motion by eliminating the judder inherent in 3:2 pulldown).
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post #164 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 10:59 AM
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Accepting 24Hz and displaying it are two different things,only 120Hz(or some other multiple of 24) tv's are able to display 24Hz.
Most 1080p tv's accept 24Hz but only highend 1080p sets display it.
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post #165 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 11:05 AM
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Panasonic now shows the BD60 on their website but it has some wrong information(eg DivX and ?) and no link to the new firmware:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

I think they need to hire some AVS members to do their PR and marketing.
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post #166 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 11:23 AM
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[quote=madkaw;16142641]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post


According to Kris the Panasonic models 35/60/80 are the only released blu-ray players to output DVD at 24p.
QUOTE]

Not true, the Pioneer 09 and the Oppo 83 do it.

It was true at the time of that review, many months ago.

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post #167 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by HiFiFun
According to Kris the Panasonic models 35/60/80 are the only released blu-ray players to output DVD at 24p.

Quote:


Originally Posted by madkaw
Not true, the Pioneer 09 and the Oppo 83 do it.

The Oppo 83 has yet to be released to the general public.
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post #168 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDazedx View Post

From what I have read though, many HDTV's support 24p but convert it to 60fps so is this really a moot point?

Convert is as bad as "assume". So too is down-sampling from the native resolution of your display like HDCP does.

Its ok to repeat frames if by the same amount. A 120Hz display repeats each 24Hz frame five times. However a 60Hz display repeats the first frame three times and the next frame only twice. This is what causes the judder or a jerky motion artifact when something moves on the screen.

A more intelligent way is to data-mine the successive 24p frames to create new intermediate images. Sophisticated image processing detects were the moving object is currently located on screen and where its going too. The displays high-seed firmware calculates the rate and direction. Its called a vector in mathematics. For a 120Hz display four intermediate way-points are created along the way. From a high level point-of-view, its that simple. Hope this helps. Purists hate the newfound clarity.
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post #169 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Convert is as bad as "assume".

There is a link in my post where I reference where it was mentioned about "converting" to 60fps. Maybe you can email the author from hometheatermag.com and let him know?
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post #170 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 01:22 PM
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can somebody answer a newbie question...pretty please

I have a Samsung HL-S5087W 50" 1080p DLP set and I just purchased the BD60 player which I have hooked up via HDMI...I'm currently using my TV's built in speakers (for a few weeks anyway until I purchase a nice Home Theatre setup) and I'm wondering about the BD60's Audio settings...under 'Digital Audio Output' there are settings for Dolby Digital/Dolby TrueHD and DTS/DTS-HD and you can choose between 'Bitstream' and 'PCM'...if I'm using my TV's speakers does it matter which setting I choose or is Bitstream the better one?

-PCM Down Conversion...On (signals are converted to 48 kHz) or Off (signals are output as 96 kHz)...the default is 'Off'

-finally under 'TV/Device Connection' and 'HDMI RGB Output Range' there is Standard (the video is output as it is) or Enhanced (when the black and white contrast of a video is low, the signal is enhanced to reproduce clear video)..default is 'Standard'

please help a newbie in need...I just want to make sure that I'm getting the best possible audio/video experience at the moment...Thanks
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post #171 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 01:37 PM
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I've only played two BD discs (Traitor & Body of Lies) so far with the BD60 and the Resume Play function isn't working. Anyone else have this problem?
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post #172 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

can somebody answer a newbie question...pretty please

I have a Samsung HL-S5087W 50" 1080p DLP set and I just purchased the BD60 player which I have hooked up via HDMI...I'm currently using my TV's built in speakers (for a few weeks anyway until I purchase a nice Home Theatre setup) and I'm wondering about the BD60's Audio settings...under 'Digital Audio Output' there are settings for Dolby Digital/Dolby TrueHD and DTS/DTS-HD and you can choose between 'Bitstream' and 'PCM'...if I'm using my TV's speakers does it matter which setting I choose or is Bitstream the better one?

-PCM Down Conversion...On (signals are converted to 48 kHz) or Off (signals are output as 96 kHz)...the default is 'Off'

-finally under 'TV/Device Connection' and 'HDMI RGB Output Range' there is Standard (the video is output as it is) or Enhanced (when the black and white contrast of a video is low, the signal is enhanced to reproduce clear video)..default is 'Standard'

please help a newbie in need...I just want to make sure that I'm getting the best possible audio/video experience at the moment...Thanks

Set it audio setting to PCM to have the BD60 to decode the audio since you do not have a receiver yet. Leave it the HDMI RGB Output Range on standard.
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post #173 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

I've only played two BD discs (Traitor & Body of Lies) so far with the BD60 and the Resume Play function isn't working. Anyone else have this problem?

BD movies that are encoded with JAVA will not resume to the same spot after the player is stopped or powered down. To bypass this, some java encoded movies have a bookmark feature in the scene selection or special feature section.
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post #174 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 02:02 PM
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So, aside from the internet capabilities and the 24p output, is there any other reason to choose the BD60/80 over a BD35? I don't think I'll be downloading from Netflix or whatever, and my display will not accommodate 24p. There is a pallet loaded with BD35s at my local Costco so I may go that route instead. Thanks in advance.
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post #175 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage View Post

Set it audio setting to PCM to have the BD60 to decode the audio since you do not have a receiver yet. Leave it the HDMI RGB Output Range on standard.

Thank You

anyone have any idea about the PCM Down Conversion...On (signals are converted to 48 kHz) or Off (signals are output as 96 kHz)...the default is 'Off'
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post #176 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cck View Post

So, aside from the internet capabilities and the 24p output, is there any other reason to choose the BD60/80 over a BD35? I don't think I'll be downloading from Netflix or whatever, and my display will not accommodate 24p. There is a pallet loaded with BD35s at my local Costco so I may go that route instead. Thanks in advance.

Aha! That's why the BD35 was so bl**dy hard to find in the last two months - they all stopped half-way in Hawaii for some fun in the sun and to avoid the North American winter, and are now selling themselves off at your Costco.



Seriously through, if you can get a BD35 for less than a BD60, I'd grab it (assuming you want a Panny BD player, of course). The 24p output for SD-DVDs is a nice to have that you'll probably not miss watching all those Blu-rays Discs instead...

And I have no use for Netflix, personally, so that is a complete non-issue AFAIC.

IMHO,

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post #177 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 03:19 PM
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FYI, BD60 is now available in Costco for $20 cheaper than BestBuy. The Costco model # is BD-605
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post #178 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

A 120Hz display repeats each 24Hz frame five times.

Not true. Reread moviegeek's post: "Most 1080p tv's accept 24Hz but only highend 1080p sets display it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

However a 60Hz display repeats the first frame three times and the next frame only twice. This is what causes the judder or a jerky motion artifact when something moves on the screen.

This is exactly what many 120Hz displays are doing. They convert 24fps to 60fps then interpolate (i.e. make up) frames to achieve 120Hz. Hence, artificial looking picture unpleasing to a mmovie purist's eye.
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post #179 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 04:16 PM
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I saw this player at Costco for $279.99 and that includes an HDMI cable. It seems to have all of the features of the BD60, like amazon.com, blah blah blah. I guess this is just a version that costco will sell?
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post #180 of 8257 Old 03-28-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

FYI, BD60 is now available in Costco for $20 cheaper than BestBuy. The Costco model # is BD-605

Costo customer service called today regarding an old rain check but I didn't get the model number. Visited a different Costo to get the model to look it up online but for the life of me couldn't find any "blu ray 605" on the Panny website. Thanks for confirming the model number. IIRC the rain check included a $50 discount. Already have a Sony 350 ($175 - thanks Dell!) but (just starting to research) will pick this up if a much better BR player and gift the Sony to a relative. Any quick recommendation? Thanks.
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