Official Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 Owners Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:38 AM
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The Panasonic website www2.panasonic.com for DMP-BD60/70 lists

DVD-R/-RW/-R(DL) 1 Playback DVD Video, DVD-VR, AVCHD, DivX® (DVD-R/-R DL only)
+R/+R(DL)/+RW Playback DVD-VR, AVCHD
CD, CD-R/-RW 2 Playback CD-DA, DivX® (CD-R/-RW only), MP3 3 (CD-R/-RW only), JPEG (HD) (CD-R/-RW only)
USB MP3, JPEG (HD), DivX®

It sounds like DivX doesn't work on DVD+R, but should play from CD-R, USB and DVD-R. The DivX playback is the reason I've been waiting for the BD60 over the BD35K. The news that DivX is missing in the US version is a disappointment. DivX is available in $40 DVD players, how could it cost so much?

As far as I know, VHS playback will enjoy the same color processing, deinterlacing and upscaling as DVD and blueray. Moreover, there is lots of VHS media in libraries and schools. However, if the DMP-BD70 is to play everything, in addition to DivX, it should also play VCD and SVCDs.
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by xDazedx View Post

From what I have read though, many HDTV's support 24p but convert it to 60fps so is this really a moot point?

Yes. For plasmas, many sets that support 24p convert it to 60Hz, some higher end models support native 48Hz, 72Hz or 96Hz modes for 24p content. Recent Pioneer plasmas actually do it automatically when they detect a 24p underlying signal - even from a 1080p/60 source. This can be disabled in the menu for anyone who is crazy enough to want to.

As for 120 Hz and 240 Hz LCDs, again, not all support 24p content natively. Particularly the entry-level models which are most popular. They convert to 60Hz then do they 120 Hz processing on that signal. Keep in mind that 120Hz mode on LCDs was *NOT* created to improve native 24p film support. It was created to reduce the motion smear that is inherent to LCD panels. Motion smear and judder reduction are two entirely different things.

Personally, I think the "motion enhancement" technologies that interpolate intermediate frames between the 24p frames make motion from 24FPS films look really weird and unnatural. Yes, film's 24FPS rate may not be ideal for capturing motion but that's the way film is supposed to look. Smoothing out the motion to make it look more video-like is probably not what the director intended and to my eyes it looks *less* natural, not more so.

Fortunately most of these motion enhancement technologies can be defeated.

-CB

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Old 03-29-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejolson View Post

The Panasonic website www2.panasonic.com for DMP-BD60/70 lists

DVD-R/-RW/-R(DL) 1 Playback DVD Video, DVD-VR, AVCHD, DivX® (DVD-R/-R DL only)
+R/+R(DL)/+RW Playback DVD-VR, AVCHD
CD, CD-R/-RW 2 Playback CD-DA, DivX® (CD-R/-RW only), MP3 3 (CD-R/-RW only), JPEG (HD) (CD-R/-RW only)
USB MP3, JPEG (HD), DivX®

It sounds like DivX doesn't work on DVD+R, but should play from CD-R, USB and DVD-R. The DivX playback is the reason I've been waiting for the BD60 over the BD35K. The news that DivX is missing in the US version is a disappointment. DivX is available in $40 DVD players, how could it cost so much?

I'd say the web site listing is probably a mistake. The US manual lists Divx for the BD80 only (not the BD60). It's pretty clear in the manual that Divx is BD80 only. Not sure whether it will be in the BD70 or not (different manual). They're positioning that as a "multi media player" so it would make sense to include it, but I am not 100% sure on that yet.

Quote:


As far as I know, VHS playback will enjoy the same color processing, deinterlacing and upscaling as DVD and blueray. Moreover, there is lots of VHS media in libraries and schools. However, if the DMP-BD70 is to play everything, in addition to DivX, it should also play VCD and SVCDs.

The VHS deck in the BB70V does get the same UniPhier deinterlacing/processing as DVDs and BDs. I saw a demo of it and was pretty impressed. Would be great if you could record the upconverted output onto a Blu-ray Disc but (of course) no recorders for us poor Americans, at least not likely to see one this year.

But as for VCD/SVCD support in the BD70V, that's unlikely. It's not in the BD60 or BD80. The BD80 also doesn't support MKV, MOV, M4P, etc. so it's not a completely comprehensive media player. But it does support Divx and Xvid (tested both) pretty well. Most importantly, it looks like it supports aspect ratio of Divx files better than the BD55 did (I couldn't get the BD55 to stop stretching my DivX AVIs). The BD80 does not have this problem. I did see a few quirks - one Xvid title could not be zoomed to fill the screen (without changing the geometry) and another could not be fast-forwarded. But since XVid is not officially supported, it isn't something I can really complain about.

Overall, the BD80 does pretty well as a media player and really well as a Blu-ray and DVD player, plus it has this window onto internet content (VIERA Cast) which Panasonic can enhance over time by partnering with more people.

BTW, I would not hold my breath for Netflix online streaming support. The comment Panasonic reps made in their NY demo was "there are basically two camps - those that support Amazon and those that support Netflix" - guess which camp they're in? It doesn't mean it will *never* happen but I wouldn't expect it soon. Let's see (in May?) how things go with the Amazon movies-on-demand.

The only vendor I've seen so far with specific announced plans to support both Netflix AND Amazon is actually VIZIO in their "Connected HDTV" platform (and Roku in their standalone box).

-CB

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Old 03-29-2009, 12:09 PM
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"I also think it's rediculous that we here in NA aren't able to play DivX on our BD35/60."

Then don't buy one.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:15 PM
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"there are basically two camps..."

This is also why I don't want to pay for internet streaming of any kind in my blu-ray player. If I want internet streaming and due to the kind of issues "we support what format" represent, I want a stand alone updatable, tweakable, internet only device. Why in the world would I want to tie a major anchor of my home theater to interenet steaming technology? Makes no sense to me.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:19 PM
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"This is also why I don't want to pay for internet streaming of any kind in my blu-ray player"

Then don't buy one.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:22 PM
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Yep, not going to moviegeek. Not going to sue Panasonic over it nor act like something is wrong with Panasonic for doing so either. When those who do buy one find themselves with a nice blu-ray but an obsolete internet streaming component, well let me know how you really feel about me then okay?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Yep, not going to moviegeek. Not going to sue Panasonic over it nor act like something is wrong with Panasonic for doing so either. When those who do buy one find themselves with a nice blu-ray but an obsolete internet streaming component, well let me know how you really feel about me then okay?

I don't think VIERA Cast will be obsolete any time soon. It's basically a really simple Web portal to content that Panasonic activates on the server side. Adding content is simple from a technology standpoint - just add a new "widget." But it's the partnerships that will define the content and Panasonic has not announced any plans to partner with Netflix.

But you make a good point - for $100 you can buy the Roku box, get Netflix *and* Amazon and who knows what else in the future? They're certainly going to be the most motivated to add new content so that people will be able to justify buying a dedicated box just for streaming movies. But I think some people are trying to add that functionality without the need for yet another black box in the system.

-CB

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Old 03-29-2009, 12:55 PM
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WRT streaming: the CE companies are creating unnecessary barriers to adoption by not supporting all streaming. A Profile 2.0 Blu-ray is pretty much what you need to do streaming, so why not include all known streaming providers? Why not have a single spec for the interface that everyone can follow?

This is, in effect, another format war. Has no one learned?
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:00 PM
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Obviously jsmiddleton4 missed the irony of my last post but in regards to my DivX remark:not supporting DivX in one country is like saying you can play MP3 or WMA(both of which are patented) in one country but not another.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:00 PM
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rl....

I don't think anyone can really answer your question. Its precisely because your question is reasonable and our experience with this kind of stuff leaves us asking the same kinds of questions that I have no desire to tie my blu-ray player to the technology.

If folks do, more power to them. If Panasonic wants to offer players that do, more power to them.

Its not going to be something I spend my money on.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:02 PM
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movie....

Sorry but your example is not exactly 100% air tight nor is your irony.

However I'll let you have it as you wish.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:04 PM
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cb....

"I don't think VIERA Cast will be obsolete any time soon."

There is way more to determining "obsolete" then just the technological aspects of VIERA Cast. Is the technology in a betamax player technically obsolete?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:09 PM
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Just got one...replacing a Sony BDP-300! Should be much better!
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:13 PM
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A betamax?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

cb....

"I don't think VIERA Cast will be obsolete any time soon."

There is way more to determining "obsolete" then just the technological aspects of VIERA Cast. Is the technology in a betamax player technically obsolete?

You're comparing apples and oranges. A Betamax player could not be upgraded via firmware or a simple widget to play VHS tapes so it was made obsolete by Sony's unwillingness to license out the format to other vendors (among other reasons), thereby losing that format war.

An "Amazon on Demand" player (BD60/BD80) can be upgraded to support Netflix online streaming (the competitive streaming format) simply by Panasonic and Netflix signing a contract and delivering a new widget. Of course, we have no insight into whatever deals Panasonic might have signed with Amazon, but if VIZIO and Roku can support both, then it's safe to say Panasonic would add Netflix support if the market dictates that.

Although this is not based on any inside information, it's entirely possible that Panasonic gave Amazon some window of exclusivity perhaps in exchange for concessions on other areas of the contract. And since Amazon knows how many tens of thousands of Panasonic Blu-ray players they sold just in Q4 alone last year, they would be only too happy to get on board to promote their own streaming service.

-CB

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Old 03-29-2009, 01:27 PM
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"You're comparing apples and oranges."

Sorry but I'm simply defining/illustrating all of what is involved "obsolete". I'm not comparing anything to anything.

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Old 03-29-2009, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

are load times as bad as some of the reviews say?...a little over a minute?...does Panasonic mail out free firmware discs?

Load time seems to be 15-20 seconds - not bad.

Discs? Not that I'm aware of, but updates are available via Ethernet (on-demand) or via Panasonic site (burn to CD-R).
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggestPapi View Post

Load time seems to be 15-20 seconds - not bad.

Discs? Not that I'm aware of, but updates are available via Ethernet (on-demand) or via Panasonic site (burn to CD-R).

Which BDs did you load, and did you actually time it, or "just noticed that the movie was playing by the time I got back from the fridge"?

Java-heavy BDs should take quite a bit more time to load.

Just curious - for some time-to-load is irrelevant, for me it is one of the more important elements (along with SD upscaling).

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Old 03-29-2009, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

Which BDs did you load, and did you actually time it, or "just noticed that the movie was playing by the time I got back from the fridge"?

Java-heavy BDs should take quite a bit more time to load.

Just curious - for some time-to-load is irrelevant, for me it is one of the more important elements (along with SD upscaling).

shinksma

The load times are comparable to the BD35/BD55 - we measured 21 seconds to load a DVD, 41 seconds to load a non-BD-Java Blu-ray, 52 seconds to load a BD-Java title (POTC 1).

And by "load" I mean put a disc in the tray, press "play" on the remote and start the timer, stop the timer when the first screen from the disc appears on screen (usually a studio logo or a trailer). Getting to the menus of various discs takes longer, but I don't usually use that as a measurement as you have to manually hit the "next chapter" button to get through trailers on specific discs and that can get a little hairy. These load times put the BD80/BD60 ahead of the Samsung BD-P2500 but behind the LG BD300 in terms of loading speed.

The Quick Start mode does speed up the boot-up process however (at the expense of some energy efficiency). The above times were increased only by 1-3 seconds starting with the player OFF (but in "Quick Start" mode).

-CB

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Old 03-29-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

I've only played two BD discs (Traitor & Body of Lies) so far with the BD60 and the Resume Play function isn't working. Anyone else have this problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage View Post

BD movies that are encoded with JAVA will not resume to the same spot after the player is stopped or powered down. To bypass this, some java encoded movies have a bookmark feature in the scene selection or special feature section.

yup just saw this in action myself...I only have 2 Blu-Ray discs so far, The Dark Knight and 300, but they each react differently to 'resuming' playback after hitting the Stop button...with Dark Knight you cannot resume but they do have a bookmark feature to use in its place while with 300 the Resume feature works fine

'resume' also seems to work fine with my standard DVD's
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Old 03-29-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"Shouldn't we sue them for this?"

Huh? Sue them for not providing something they didn't say would be provided?

The decision to or to not provide DIVX has to do with the cost of licensing through DIVX and price points of players and how many people do or do not use DIVX media. If Panasonic said you'd have DIVX on the BD60 and they didn't provide it, ok, you'd have a point. DIVX is not supported and that is made clear on the product information for the US based models.

The target market and price points for the BD60, 35 for that matter, did not equal having DIVX support.

I started the "sue them" topic and I was of course kidding. I'm in Canada, we don't sue for such things!

Yes, Panasonic claims (on their USA web site at this instant!) that the BD60 supports DivX on DVD, CD and USB, although the operations manual says otherwise. We're waiting for BD60 owners to confirm this.

BTW I own a BD35 and definitely miss USB and DivX support on it. I keep a Philips DVP5990 DVD player handy, it has both USB and DivX and upscales to 1080p, although at a lesser video quality than the BD could.

I understand the 55/80 target market with its 7.1 HQ analog outputs, the additional circuitry does result in added cost. It makes no sense to me to leave DivX off the 35/60. This is like wanting a sun roof on a car but it's only available as part of a $4000 package with other features you don't need or want.

Why do the 35/60 support DivX in other markets but not in NA. Is it simply a licensing fee issue?
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Yes. For plasmas, many sets that support 24p convert it to 60Hz, some higher end models support native 48Hz, 72Hz or 96Hz modes for 24p content. Recent Pioneer plasmas actually do it automatically when they detect a 24p underlying signal - even from a 1080p/60 source. This can be disabled in the menu for anyone who is crazy enough to want to.

As for 120 Hz and 240 Hz LCDs, again, not all support 24p content natively. Particularly the entry-level models which are most popular. They convert to 60Hz then do they 120 Hz processing on that signal. Keep in mind that 120Hz mode on LCDs was *NOT* created to improve native 24p film support. It was created to reduce the motion smear that is inherent to LCD panels. Motion smear and judder reduction are two entirely different things.

Personally, I think the "motion enhancement" technologies that interpolate intermediate frames between the 24p frames make motion from 24FPS films look really weird and unnatural. Yes, film's 24FPS rate may not be ideal for capturing motion but that's the way film is supposed to look. Smoothing out the motion to make it look more video-like is probably not what the director intended and to my eyes it looks *less* natural, not more so.

Fortunately most of these motion enhancement technologies can be defeated.

-CB

Why are a few so stuck on interlaced signals and low frame rates?

Since technology constantly improves (the new 2009 Samsung edge LEDs are the exception) its nearly impossible to make an accurate definitive statement for any length of time.
Your statement "Keep in mind that 120Hz mode on LCDs was *NOT* created to improve native 24p film support."
Ok, true. But its *NOT* today. So why are we living in the past?

In fact the Samsung 950 LED Motion Plus feature turns off the local dimming LEDs while the LCD pixels are changing state. So there is virtually no pixel blur.
The motion interpolation has improved tremendously and if used at low settings is actually very natural and mimics what we would see in real life.

The 24fps is grossly inadequate for true High Definition motion. Large jumps of motion between successive frames is now the weakest link in the HD system. Lastly that only LCD technology make use of motion interpolation, no-doubt accounts for a large portion of the hostility.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:17 PM
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Real3D glasses are useless outside 3D cinemas.

well darn... makes sense tho I guess. But I could have sworn I saw Journey to the Center of the Earth out in 3D on Blu-Ray. Is that particular title just the red/blue glasses? I can't stand that type of 3D if that's what it is.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

WRT streaming: the CE companies are creating unnecessary barriers to adoption by not supporting all streaming. A Profile 2.0 Blu-ray is pretty much what you need to do streaming, so why not include all known streaming providers? Why not have a single spec for the interface that everyone can follow?

This is, in effect, another format war. Has no one learned?

Another barrier to adoption of streaming is licensing.

Here in Canada we don't have access to Amazon VOD, Netflix, or Pandora (audio streaming supported in some Samsung BDP) because of licensing issues, and there seems to be no plan to get this in place any time soon. We also don't have access to hulu for the same reason.

I'm curious if poster blackend with a PAL BD60 has tried VIERA CAST where he lives (Middle East). Please let us know what you can access with it.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:20 PM
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well darn... makes sense tho I guess. But I could have sworn I saw Journey to the Center of the Earth out in 3D on Blu-Ray. Is that particular title just the red/blue glasses? I can't stand that type of 3D if that's what it is.

According to Wikipedia: It was released on DVD and Blu-ray on October 28, 2008 in standard 2-D format as well as a magenta/green anaglyph. Four pairs of 3-D glasses are available along with the two disc edition of the movie.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

The 24fps is grossly inadequate for true High Definition motion. Large jumps of motion between successive frames is now the weakest link in the HD system. Lastly that only LCD technology make use of motion interpolation, no-doubt accounts for a large portion of the hostility.

You do realize that real film with light projected through actual still images captured with an optical camera far exceeds "high definition", right? HD really only refers to a pixellated image source, and real film can display MUCH finer detail than even the highest quality 1080p source or display.

When you say 24fps is inadequate for "high-definition" motion, even the 24fps silver-screen films from 50 years ago contained more visual information per-frame than a 1920x1080 (only 2 megapixel) image.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:59 PM
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I don't remember seeing them yesterday however today Best Buy is at least listing the 60/80 on-line.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 03-29-2009, 05:09 PM
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Question about 24p:

So I picked up a BD60 a few days ago and have been really enjoying it. I have it set to output as 24p.

Now, I also have a Panasonic PZ850U 46" plasma. I can swap between 60Hz and 48Hz, with 48Hz giving me a noticeable flicker, which has been talked about to death.

Does having the BD60 output 24p but the TV at 60Hz affect the PQ in any way? Should I just turn off 24p output on the BD60?

Also, would the only way to fix the 24p flicker on my plasma be to get another plasma that does 120Hz or 96Hz? I assume there's no firmware or software update for my TV that could fix the flicker issue, right?
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:28 PM
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Costo customer service called today regarding an old rain check but I didn't get the model number. Visited a different Costo to get the model to look it up online but for the life of me couldn't find any "blu ray 605" on the Panny website. Thanks for confirming the model number. IIRC the rain check included a $50 discount. Already have a Sony 350 ($175 - thanks Dell!) but (just starting to research) will pick this up if a much better BR player and gift the Sony to a relative. Any quick recommendation? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

In case you didn't know, most of these stuff sold at Costco, TVs, DVD player, BD players, have Costco specific model numbers to separate them from normal stores like Best Buy so that you can't price match or cross return them.

Correct. My Costco Panny TV was listed on their site but not the Costco "605" Blu Ray player. The PDF linked in wymann's post #126 lists a "601" as well as the Costco "605". The "605" manual does not list the "601". The included HDMI cable is ~6'. Page 12 of the PDF manual shows that only the DMP-BD80 has the extra audio out connections as they do not appear on the back of the "605". My niece is happy to be getting my "hand me down" Sony 350.

Picked up the Costco "605" today @ the rain check price. Also got Bolt and gave another Bolt shopper a copy of the download $ printout.
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Oppo , Oppo Bdp 83 Blu Ray Player , Blu Ray Players , Panasonic Dmp Bd80k Blu Ray Player , Panasonic Dmp Bd60 Blu Ray Disc Player Black , Panasonic
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