Official Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 Owners Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 8256 Old 03-29-2009, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Keep in mind that 120Hz mode on LCDs was *NOT* created to improve native 24p film support. It was created to reduce the motion smear that is inherent to LCD panels. Motion smear and judder reduction are two entirely different things.

Personally, I think the "motion enhancement" technologies that interpolate intermediate frames between the 24p frames make motion from 24FPS films look really weird and unnatural. Yes, film's 24FPS rate may not be ideal for capturing motion but that's the way film is supposed to look. Smoothing out the motion to make it look more video-like is probably not what the director intended and to my eyes it looks *less* natural, not more so.

Fortunately most of these motion enhancement technologies can be defeated.
-CB

I think your opinion is in the minority. Here Pioneer Kuro Elite owners complain of jerky Motion in Speed Racer. Watching with motion interpolation makes the cars speeding around at 500mph much smoother:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1133846


For everyone else set the Panasonic to 24p output with a 120Hz display. Then set the motion interpolation to suite your own eyes.
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post #242 of 8256 Old 03-29-2009, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"there are basically two camps..."

This is also why I don't want to pay for internet streaming of any kind in my blu-ray player. If I want internet streaming and due to the kind of issues "we support what format" represent, I want a stand alone updatable, tweakable, internet only device. Why in the world would I want to tie a major anchor of my home theater to interenet steaming technology? Makes no sense to me.

Yessss. Panasonic just would like to pick our pocket that all..
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post #243 of 8256 Old 03-29-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ejolson View Post

The Panasonic website www2.panasonic.com for DMP-BD60/70 lists

DVD-R/-RW/-R(DL) 1 Playback DVD Video, DVD-VR, AVCHD, DivX® (DVD-R/-R DL only)
+R/+R(DL)/+RW Playback DVD-VR, AVCHD
CD, CD-R/-RW 2 Playback CD-DA, DivX® (CD-R/-RW only), MP3 3 (CD-R/-RW only), JPEG (HD) (CD-R/-RW only)
USB MP3, JPEG (HD), DivX®

It sounds like DivX doesn't work on DVD+R, but should play from CD-R, USB and DVD-R. The DivX playback is the reason I've been waiting for the BD60 over the BD35K. The news that DivX is missing in the US version is a disappointment. DivX is available in $40 DVD players, how could it cost so much?

As far as I know, VHS playback will enjoy the same color processing, deinterlacing and upscaling as DVD and blueray. Moreover, there is lots of VHS media in libraries and schools. However, if the DMP-BD70 is to play everything, in addition to DivX, it should also play VCD and SVCDs.

Yes, that's why there was a suggestion to sue them for wrong advertise.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702
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post #244 of 8256 Old 03-29-2009, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I can tell by some of your earlier posts that you have a certain bias against Oppo. I've come across another poster in another thread with the exact same bias. I respect the poster's assessment of the Oppo, but WHY did you feel a need to post that link in this thread? This is the Panasonic BD60 thread and this is exactly how threads go off topic. The subject of the Oppo would have probably never come up if you had not initiated it in the very 1st post. I really don't believe any prospective buyer is trying to decide between the Oppo and the Panasonic BD60. I also gather that you have no hands on experience with the Oppo. I own the Oppo and my time with it has been a pleasure. I read reviews and assessments for their technical views of the equipment, but I'm more concerned with real world assessments from those same reviews as well as the old eyeball test. Hopefully, we can get back on topic, because I'm in the market for a 2nd player and the Panasonic BD60 looks like it is up for the task.

He's not just biased against Oppo. He's been spouting Panasonic marketing nonsense since the first post in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if he works for them. I wouldn't mind it if he would identify it (and himself) as such.
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post #245 of 8256 Old 03-29-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I think your opinion is in the minority. Here Pioneer Kuro Elite owners complain of jerky Motion in Speed Racer. Watching with motion interpolation makes the cars speeding around at 500mph much smoother:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1133846


For everyone else set the Panasonic to 24p output with a 120Hz display. Then set the motion interpolation to suite your own eyes.

Let's try this again.....I don't want the player or TV changing anything. Not the colors, not the frame rate, not anything. If 24 fps was a problem I'm sure the movie industry would do something about it.

Perhaps you would like to tout that new Panasonic magic technology that changes the plot of the movie to make people enjoy them more.
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post #246 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I think your opinion is in the minority. Here Pioneer Kuro Elite owners complain of jerky Motion in Speed Racer. Watching with motion interpolation makes the cars speeding around at 500mph much smoother:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1133846


For everyone else set the Panasonic to 24p output with a 120Hz display. Then set the motion interpolation to suite your own eyes.

In order to get get true 5:5/4:4 etc on the vast majority of displays their Motion enhancements must be turned off. In Samsungs, AMP is set to off, In Sony's Motion Enhancer is set to off, in Toshiba Film Stabilization is set to Standard, In LG, True Motion is set to off and Real Cinema is set to On, etc. Otherwise 3:2 is applied and then doubled to reach 120.

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post #247 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 07:57 AM
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Picked up a BD60 at BB on Sat. They had a stack of about 20-30 of them but no display out yet. Was previously using a Toshiba XD-E500 (died recently) over component to my Elite PRO510HD monitor and over HDMI to a JVC RS1x projecting to 104". Previously I had been very happily running an RP91 since about 2001. I was reluctant to upgrade to BD but with the XDE no longer in stock I felt my hand was being forced. I knew some about its capabilities so I bought one and then did some reading here just to make sure it would fit the bill. I decided it would so I opened 'er up.

Here are my quick impressions from a weekend of use so far:

Pros:
1) Firmware upgrade over ethernet. NICE. I don't have a network connection in my media room so I upgraded it in my office using the kitchen TV as a monitor. I could have upgraded it with a disc but this was easier. I would say about 20min to download and flash the new firmware over my 1.5M DSL connection.
2) 24p SD DVD support. In my tests this was rock solid. (RS1x accepts 24p for 4:4 output at 96Hz)
3) Very good SD DVD up-conversion quality. At 104" nothing escapes notice. Its not as sharp as the XDE was, but its still very crisp and by no means "soft". I can definitely live with this.
4) HDMI Deep Color and x.v.Color support thru HDMI 1.3. The RS1x is also HDMI 1.3 compatible so it can take advantage of these (of course a lot is dependent on source material/capture here.)
5) More responsive than I had thought it would be. DVDs pretty much start as quickly as a normal DVD player, maybe only a tad slower but not enough to be noticeable or bothersome. As for BD, I've only tried MIB and a couple Planet Earth discs so far. MIB took maybe 30-40 seconds to get to the menu (it had a nice status bar using the "MIB" logo while loading) and the PE discs pretty much started right up. I don't know if either of these is BD-Java or not, though.
6) Sound quality! Even using my existing non-HDMI receiver the core DD sound from MIB (640K) was outstanding. Better sounding then anything I had previously played. I expect even better results from the core DTS sound when I get a disc which has that. I can definitely live with the core soundtracks for a few years until I'm ready to upgrade my Integra DTR-7.2 to an HDMI capable receiver. I'm glad I decided not to mess around with analog inputs just to get the HD formats, the core soundtracks are good enough for now.
7) Blu-ray picture quality was very good, again just going by the MIB and PE stuff I watched.
8) PQ adjustments, particularly the gamma adjustment for use with my RPTV which is starting to feel its age and needs the boost to avoid crushing blacks.
9) Its got a "real" disc tray where you can actually grab the sides of the disc instead of having to use the hole to remove/insert them. I hated this about my Toshiba player.
10) Minimalist front display/LEDs. My AV components are housed inside glass-door cabinets behind my AT screen so this is good news since bright readouts and LEDs are easily seen behind the screen.
11) Price was right. Even at the MSRP this is worth the price of admission, IMO. I hope it lasts as long as my RP91 did!

Cons:
1) No coax digital output, only optical. This was a disappointment but I can live with it until I get an HDMI receiver.
2) 24p mode for DVDs isn't "sticky". I understand why they did this but its still annoying. I just made a "24p" button with macro for my Pronto and now its no biggie. Although I wish it would stay set between discs while the power remains on but its doesn't, has to be set for every title.
3) DVD layer change pause of around 1-1.5s. The XDE was seamless here. 12 years after the introduction of DVD and we still have players that can't put $2 of memory on to buffer the stream. This is the thing I'll miss most about the XDE which was seamless for every disc I ever played in it.

I don't really care about BD-Live or streaming, so I left those out.

Overall this is a pretty nice player that does a very respectable job with SD-DVDs that I can live with for the foreseeable future. I have no intention of replacing any of my current DVDs so good upconversion/24p for DVD was essential and this player delivers both along with very nice HD PQ.
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post #248 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G View Post

3) DVD layer change pause of around 1-1.5s. The XDE was seamless here. 12 years after the introduction of DVD and we still have players that can't put $2 of memory on to buffer the stream. This is the thing I'll miss most about the XDE which was seamless for every disc I ever played in it.

Interesting no one else has mentioned a layer change. Darn, I was hoping those days were behind us. I’m spoiled, so this may give me a little pause. Maybe the new Sony S360 won’t have a layer change. Anyone know if the 350 had a layer change?
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post #249 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post

Let's try this again.....I don't want the player or TV changing anything. Not the colors, not the frame rate, not anything. If 24 fps was a problem I'm sure the movie industry would do something about it.

Perhaps you would like to tout that new Panasonic magic technology that changes the plot of the movie to make people enjoy them more.

24fps is a problem in many situation for the industry. It's just that it's been like that for so long that it's 'Normal' and they have way to countering it's effect. Like with it's raining naturally in a scene, they have to add fake rain on top of it because 24 fps don't capture all rain.

It's a question of cost too. changing the equipement, cinema projector etc Huge cost that hollywood don't want to take. They can shoot at 60fps if they wanted but we are not there yet ...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #250 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Got sick of waiting for the release of the BDP-83 so I bought the BD60 from BB on Saturday. This is my first BD player. My display is only 1080i (Panny TH-50PX600U) hooked up to a Denon 5308CI. I watched 4 Blu-Ray discs so far and I would say I'm pretty happy with the unit at this point. Firmware update was a breeze and SD DVDs look pretty good too.
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post #251 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoohki View Post

24fps is a problem in many situation for the industry. It's just that it's been like that for so long that it's 'Normal' and they have way to countering it's effect. Like with it's raining naturally in a scene, they have to add fake rain on top of it because 24 fps don't capture all rain.

It's a question of cost too. changing the equipement, cinema projector etc Huge cost that hollywood don't want to take. They can shoot at 60fps if they wanted but we are not there yet ...

60fps movies will look like soap operas. 24fps still holds not because of cost or equipment changeover. It's the frame rate that shows smooth enough motion while retaining the "larger than life" look that make us believe movies.

Not sure what you mean about the rain. 24fps surely can capture rain, as can 12fps and even 1fps (ever seen a still photo with rain in it?). It's the shutter speed that will determine how much of it you see. Not the frame rate.

I Like Digital!
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post #252 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G View Post

Picked up a BD60 at BB on Sat.
Here are my quick impressions from a weekend of use so far:

Pros:
1) Firmware upgrade over ethernet. NICE. I don't have a network connection in my media room so I upgraded it in my office using the kitchen TV as a monitor. I could have upgraded it with a disc but this was easier. I would say about 20min to download and flash the new firmware over my 1.5M DSL connection.
2) 24p SD DVD support. In my tests this was rock solid. (RS1x accepts 24p for 4:4 output at 96Hz)

6) Sound quality! Even using my existing non-HDMI receiver the core DD sound from MIB (640K) was outstanding. Better sounding then anything I had previously played. I expect even better results from the core DTS sound when I get a disc which has that. I can definitely live with the core soundtracks for a few years until I'm ready to upgrade my Integra DTR-7.2 to an HDMI capable receiver. I'm glad I decided not to mess around with analog inputs just to get the HD formats, the core soundtracks are good enough for now.

11) Price was right. Even at the MSRP this is worth the price of admission, IMO. I hope it lasts as long as my RP91 did!

Cons:
1) No coax digital output, only optical. This was a disappointment but I can live with it until I get an HDMI receiver.
2) 24p mode for DVDs isn't "sticky". I understand why they did this but its still annoying. I just made a "24p" button with macro for my Pronto and now its no biggie. Although I wish it would stay set between discs while the power remains on but its doesn't, has to be set for every title.
3) DVD layer change pause of around 1-1.5s. The XDE was seamless here. 12 years after the introduction of DVD and we still have players that can't put $2 of memory on to buffer the stream. This is the thing I'll miss most about the XDE which was seamless for every disc I ever played in it.

I don't really care about BD-Live or streaming, so I left those out.

Overall this is a pretty nice player that does a very respectable job with SD-DVDs that I can live with for the foreseeable future. I have no intention of replacing any of my current DVDs so good upconversion/24p for DVD was essential and this player delivers both along with very nice HD PQ.

A excellent, well thought out review. I especially like the accurate comparison between the XD-E500 and the BD-60.
I'm have fun with the audio Remaster1 bass effects. Thanks!
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post #253 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Interesting no one else has mentioned a layer change. Darn, I was hoping those days were behind us. I'm spoiled, so this may give me a little pause. Maybe the new Sony S360 won't have a layer change. Anyone know if the 350 had a layer change?

Picked a BD60 up from BB w/ a copy of Sleeping Beauty. It's my 1st BD player. After a week of playing I noticed something odd. During one of the opening sceens in Sleeping Beauty, the player seems to freeze (picture w/ no audio) for ~5 to 10 seconds. MUCH longer than the old dvd players layer change! I thought is was a fluke and borrowed a copy of Iron Man and the same thing happened about 1/3 the way through the movie (~10 second pause). This was quite annoying.

I have not seen this on a DVD, but I've spent most of the time w/ BDs. Also, I have not replayed either of these movies to see if it happens again or in the same part of the movie.

Anyone experiencing this? Any ideas?
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post #254 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Interesting no one else has mentioned a layer change. Darn, I was hoping those days were behind us. I'm spoiled, so this may give me a little pause. Maybe the new Sony S360 won't have a layer change. Anyone know if the 350 had a layer change?

I read elsewhere in these forums that the layer change issue is a result of the BD pick-up assembly itself not having enough/any cache memory on board, which is how the layer change issues were minimized on DVD players.

AFAIK, all BD players are affected, because no supplier makes a lens assembly with the cache yet. That is one of those things that may take a while to percolate back into the BD tech from DVD.

AFAIK,

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post #255 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I read elsewhere in these forums that the layer change issue is a result of the BD pick-up assembly itself not having enough/any cache memory on board, which is how the layer change issues were minimized on DVD players.

AFAIK, all BD players are affected, because no supplier makes a lens assembly with the cache yet. That is one of those things that may take a while to percolate back into the BD tech from DVD.

AFAIK,

shinksma

I highly doubt that (cache on the optical pickup). You can always cache them at the processing time. I suspect it has to do with the fact that for most BD players, SD DVD playback is just an after thought.
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post #256 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 11:55 AM
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I happened to see a Blu-Ray demo of F&F Tokyo Drift on a 1080p display at BB the other day, and it happened to be in one of the car chase scenes with fast motion action, and I noticed that the motion on the screen looked "different" in some way, like I couldn't really put my finger on it. At first I thought it was fast-forwarding but it was actually playing at normal speed. Could that have been this "frame interpolation" thing?
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post #257 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I highly doubt that (cache on the optical pickup). You can always cache them at the processing time. I suspect it has to do with the fact that for most BD players, SD DVD playback is just an after thought.

I don't know for sure, I just mentioned it since I did read it here. I think I found the post where i read about it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15932997

Bob P is fairly knowledgeable, so I can only take what he says at face value - I don't know enough about the drive assemblies one way or the other.

Again, just AFAIK,

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post #258 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 03:10 PM
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A number of unnecessary posts have been deleted. Keep on topic. If you have a problem, use the Report Post function, indicated by the caution icon in the lower left corner of the post.

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post #259 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 03:35 PM
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Does the BDP-60 have an option to force the color space conversion to 4:2:2?
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post #260 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 04:11 PM
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just ordered a 4GB SDHC card from B&H in order to view the BD-Live content on my BD60...hopefully the card is the right one and will work

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ital_High.html
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post #261 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 04:59 PM
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The manual says that one must have an internet connection to do the Viera, etc., business. My broadband modem is in a different room; is there any way to connect the BD-60 to my laptop that connects to the internet via a wireless router?
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post #262 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

The manual says that one must have an internet connection to do the Viera, etc., business. My broadband modem is in a different room; is there any way to connect the BD-60 to my laptop that connects to the internet via a wireless router?

You have many options, but none is cheap:

1. Wireless gaming adapters or wireless bridges. Around $100.

2. Powerline Ethernet adapters. Also around $100 a pair.

3. Moca adapters (Ethernet over coax). Anywhere from $100 to $200 a pair.

Of couse, there is always the cat5 cable run.
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post #263 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 06:13 PM
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What settings are recommend for 3D NR and Integrated NR? Do they make the image loose detail?
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post #264 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

You have many options, but none is cheap:

1. Wireless gaming adapters or wireless bridges. Around $100.

2. Powerline Ethernet adapters. Also around $100 a pair.

3. Moca adapters (Ethernet over coax). Anywhere from $100 to $200 a pair.

Of couse, there is always the cat5 cable run.

Forgot one more option:

If you laptop runs Windows and has an LAN Ethernet port, you can use Windows built-in Network Bridging functionality to bridge the wireless internet connection with the LAN connection: Connect your player to the laptop with a LAN cable, go to your PC, open 'Network Connections' and select both the wireless connection and your LAN connection. Right click on mouse and you should see a Bridge Connection menu item.
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post #265 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 06:33 PM
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Thanks, Foxbat.
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post #266 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 06:46 PM
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If you are willing to do a little reading, the wireless bridge can be accomplished for less than $50 by purchasing a compatible wireless router and using open source software such as DD-WRT.
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post #267 of 8256 Old 03-30-2009, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Forgot one more option:

If you laptop runs Windows and has an LAN Ethernet port, you can use Windows built-in Network Bridging functionality to bridge the wireless internet connection with the LAN connection: Connect your player to the laptop with a LAN cable, go to your PC, open 'Network Connections' and select both the wireless connection and your LAN connection. Right click on mouse and you should see a Bridge Connection menu item.

OS X shares internet from wireless through the ethernet port and firewire port... the newer versions may have more options.. my laptop is 4 years old. I use my laptop to connect to my 360 to xbox live.
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post #268 of 8256 Old 03-31-2009, 06:52 AM
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My wireless router is also in the next room from my theater room, stored in a closet (out of sight). I do have a 50' ethernet cable plugged into one of the router's ports and stored in the closet that I use for backup or if a guest has a laptop w/o wireless. I'll probably just pull that out for firmware updating purposes. I don't see myself using those other internet functions.
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post #269 of 8256 Old 03-31-2009, 09:58 AM
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I bought a 4 GB SDHC card along with a 30 ft ethernet cable and both work fine...the BD-Live features are kinda underwhelming to me at the moment---maybe in future releases this will be put to better use...anyone know any titles that truly offer some great features on BD-Live?

the Viera Cast features are also decent but also kind of pointless to me at the moment...hopefully Amazon on Demand and/or Netflix will pick things up...watching YouTube videos on my HDTV seems kinda corny...are a lot of people doing this?...I don't see the point of adding this in as a feature

being able to auto update the firmware is the main reason I wanted the network features enabled...I havn't auto updated to 1.5 yet as everything seems to be working fine with 1.1

I read a few posts complaining about the response once a button on the remote is pressed but for me every button works very quickly with the exception being the 'Setup' button, which takes an extra second to pop up

anyone toy around with the Display settings---Normal, Soft, Fine, Cinema...anyone feel one offers better PQ over the other?
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post #270 of 8256 Old 03-31-2009, 10:55 AM
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What settings are recommend for 3D NR and Integrated NR? Do they make the image loose detail?

I tried the 3D NR setting at +1 and the pq improved to more life like without harming the image.
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