Oppo BDP-83 or 83SE versus other blu ray players thread - Page 126 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3751 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Samsung's history of poor ongoing support is something the reviewers never seem to mention, is it?

I have never reviewed anything from Samsung but how can a reviewer know anything about this? Is there unbiased public data on this? Do you think a reviewer can discover this during the limited time spent with a product? Don't you think that a reviewer usually gets swift responses to his/her requests for support?

I am not saying that Samsung is good or bad but that an equipment reviewer is not in a position to assess this matter or report it.

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post #3752 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I have never reviewed anything from Samsung but how can a reviewer know anything about this? Is there unbiased public data on this? Do you think a reviewer can discover this during the limited time spent with a product? Don't you think that a reviewer usually gets swift responses to his/her requests for support?

I am not saying that Samsung is good or bad but that an equipment reviewer is not in a position to assess this matter or report it.

Point well-made, and it illustrates one of the borders of usefulness of published reviews.

And that's why I mentioned it; with this one poster touting the Samsung as the greatest BD player ever, based on one published review, I thought it worth pointing out that there are important things that reviews can't tell you.

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post #3753 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

HiFiFun,

I have the 6900 which I'm still debating about returning, but it's nothing special. I feel like you're in Samsung's PR department. We get it! You like the 6800 at a fraction of cost of the Oppo. However, no one seems to care but you. What thread have you not posted this similar commentary. I don't think a person considering the BDP-83 is also considering the 6800 or 6900 in my opinion. 90 day warranty. (lol)
Willie

My motivation is to advance the sate-of-the-art of high definition audio and video and at reasonable prices. Cut out the mysticism, snake oil, snobbishness, marketing and advertising out of the equation, and substitute in my experience and observations.

Here is why the Samsung 6800 at a fraction of the price (40% this week) merits consideration:
Smaller, lighter, less power, half the price, faster load times, Ethernet app, HDMI 1.4. plus 3D. What more do you want? Like better PQ too? Ok!

As an analogy it like comparing last years smart-phone's to this years. Enjoy the new technology and don't overpay.

I do respect current owners as the last thing you want to hear is some yahoo invalidating a careful well thought out choice. However I've learned to be quite discriminating and to not follow the crowd, as the handwriting is on the wall.
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post #3754 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

My motivation is to advance the sate-of-the-art of high definition audio and video and at reasonable prices. Cut out the mysticism, snake oil, snobbishness, marketing and advertising out of the equation, and substitute in my experience and observations.

If that truly is your motivation, you're actually creating the exact opposite response. Your pushiness and lact of real facts just pushes people away and causes them to embrace the OPPOSITE of what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

However I've learned to be quite discriminating and to not follow the crowd, as the handwriting is on the wall.

I am so tired of people speaking but not SAYING anything...what the hell does "the handwriting is on the wall" even mean?!? You're just spouting stock catch phrases.


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post #3755 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 06:05 PM
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HiFiFun,

Nobody is disputing features. You don't seem to get the fact that it's not really the Oppo's market target (not to mention the Oppo has some features the Sammy Doesn't), PQ and Audio quality is the Oppo's claim to fame>>>>

1. PQ on anything BUT blu ray disc 1080p24 player output (as every blu player is the same in this regard)
2. Audio quality on the ANALOG player outputs (NOT hdmi, NOT digital optical/coaxial). Blu ray, DVD and CD through the dedicated stereo outs.

So far no one has seen any compelling reviews or posts (other than from you, and you still aren't specific, only generalizing greatly like an sound bite) that the Sammy does these better than the Oppo on 1. and 2. You have also failed to post any links of reviews that claim this.

Sure, if you want a 3D player, buy something else----but most of all, you seem to be talking your own head off mentioning the '3D' of the Sammy (or other rather useless features like 'lighter'!!! What, are you installing it in your Cessna?), when no one posting/reading/browsing an Oppo thread would bring that up or really care.

It's like saying my sammy 4wd p/u is better than the Oppo 2wd road race car since the sammy can do 4wd off roading
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post #3756 of 3869 Old 08-24-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

What more do you want? Like better PQ too? Ok!

Before you post again here, (please) post the link and exact quote from such linked review showing that the sammy has 'better PQ'.

Do NOT paraphrase. Cut/paste the claim/quote and link please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I do respect current owners as the last thing you want to hear is some yahoo invalidating a careful well thought out choice. However I've learned to be quite discriminating and to not follow the crowd, as the handwriting is on the wall.

I respect those who back up their claims with evidence, otherwise I've learned they tend to just be 'some yahoo'
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post #3757 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 01:48 AM
 
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I think there is a larger issue occurring here and it makes every technology consumer upset.
As an example lets say you purchased one of the best best $2000 receivers last year. Now with HDMI 1.4, these owners are understandably upset when they realize the low resale price. Those of us who had been burned before wisely put major upgrade plans on hold after HDMI 1.4 was announced. However now is the time to buy.

In upgrading to Blu-ray 3D, I discovered that Samsung's 1.4 HDMI chips sound and look better than the 1.3 (or even 1.4) competition. This is a partial answer as to why their LCD displays are so clear and sharp. Combine this with their new digital Crystal amplifiers (yes Samsung makes receivers now) and you have the new reference standard for 2010. Pioneers 2009 1.3 receivers with ICE amplifiers cost over $2K, the 2010 Samsung 700 is $400.

So the pleasant 2010 surprise is, consumers can, for the first time, pay mid-fi prices for the highest levels of performance. This trend comes at the right time, as it helps alleviate our declining American standard of living.

The bottom line is for new customers, superior upscaling, 2D and 3D performance with superior HDMI 1.4 chips is available for $200. Last year's admission cost $500. Now is that progress? Proof that true capitalism and real competition breed innovation. All at reasonable prices.**



** Another perspective is this is Samsung putting its pawn on top!
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post #3758 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 03:53 AM
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[quote=HiFiFun;19098069]
Quote:


I think there is a larger issue occurring here and it makes every technology consumer upset.
As an example lets say you purchased one of the best best $2000 receivers last year. Now with HDMI 1.4, these owners are understandably upset when they realize the low resale price. Those of us who had been burned before wisely put major upgrade plans on hold after HDMI 1.4 was announced. However now is the time to buy.

You seem misinformed as a $2K AVR/prepro with HDMI 1.3 will work fine with a HDMI 1.4 BR player if it has dual HDMI outputs. That would have you sending one 1.4 output to your 3D capable display and one to your 1.3 capable AVR/prepro. Well looking at the Samsung BD-C6800 it does not have twin outputs. It appears that in order to get dual outputs in the Samsung line you have to jump up to the BD-C7900 so the bargain is not really there. I'm not upset in the least as the resale of my Onkyo 886 1.3 prepro is at a premium and I can get what I paid for it or more actually. Plus I have absolutely no interest in 3D Bluray at this time, just another gimmick IMO.


Quote:


In upgrading to Blu-ray 3D, I discovered that Samsung's 1.4 HDMI chips sound and look better than the 1.3 (or even 1.4) competition. This is a partial answer as to why their LCD displays are so clear and sharp. Combine this with their new digital Crystal amplifiers (yes Samsung makes receivers now) and you have the new reference standard for 2010. Pioneers 2009 1.3 receivers with ICE amplifiers cost over $2K, the 2010 Samsung 700 is $400.

That is your opinion and your opinion alone. As has been asked earlier for you to back up what you are saying with reviews that state the new Samsund BR players do what you claim they do. Other than that your opinions carry absolutely no credit IMO. The Pioneer SC-35 lists for $1600.00 so you do not have to spend over $2K to get ICE power in a Pioneer AVR.

You also might want to do a little research into ICE power based modules. There is a wide range of modules and price ranges.

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...er/ASX2_SERIES

I would assume the ICE power modules (if in fact they are ICE modules) in Samsungs AVR would be on the lower end of their offerings. You seem quite knowledgable in Samsungs products what ICE modules are in the HW-C700B?

Quote:


So the pleasant 2010 surprise is, consumers can, for the first time, pay mid-fi prices for the highest levels of performance. This trend comes at the right time, as it helps alleviate our declining American standard of living.

Again this is obviously your very biased opinion. Oh joy Samsung is going to take the US out of its economic tailspin and alleviate everyones standard of living. Talk about sipping from the Samsung fountain of KoolAid.

Quote:


The bottom line is for new customers, superior upscaling, 2D and 3D performance with superior HDMI 1.4 chips is available for $200. Last year's admission cost $500. Now is that progress? Proof that true capitalism and real competition breed innovation. All at reasonable prices.**

Have another blast of that KoolAid will ya.

Quote:


** Another perspective is this is Samsung putting its pawn on top!

That would be a "Pawn Shop" as your Samsung BD-C6800 will not be worth much once the 90 day warranty runs out As well as after the next line of "ground breaking/cost of living alleviating" line of Bluray players are announced it will be worth even less.

But in the mean time anyone that bought any of the Oppo players will enjoy high resale values. Just one look at Audiogon and you will see used BDP-80, 83 and 83SE players selling very quickly and at prices close to MSRP. That is because of the quality offered and the exceptional service from Oppo. You will not see anywhere near the level of service from Samsung that you will find from Oppo. So enjoy your "state of the art" Samsung and I will enjoy the performance of my lowly Oppo BDP-83SE.

Bill

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post #3759 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 04:06 AM
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I think the following link speaks for itself.

Jacob

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...sal_Films/5305
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post #3760 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 05:57 AM
 
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[quote=Bill Mac;19098164]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post


You seem misinformed ....

That is your opinion and your opinion alone.

Again this is obviously your very biased opinion. :.

Have another blast of that KoolAid will ya.

Bill

We agree that I speak for myself and you speak for everyone else.

Proof that owners of expensive 1.3 gear are upset too. Been there, done that guys

I own the Oppo 83se, ATI series 5000 series HTPC in three different SOTA systems. I own many expensive separates components and have looked and listened to them extensively. The repeated findings indicate that these Samsung's are superior.
If we (I mean I) step back and see that South Korea is on a roll...
Samsung does not use ICE technology (the theoretical principles may be the same but completely different implementations). There is a thread covering the M700 receiver and its technology. I realize that one does need an expensive heavy large hot amplifier anymore. Finally!

Consumer Reports does not recommend paying extra for warranties. I have never had any type of disc player go bad after use, they are defective from the get-go. Further the less costly a component is, the less need there is to insure it.
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post #3761 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 06:35 AM
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[quote=HiFiFun;19098422]
Quote:


We agree that I speak for myself and you speak for everyone else.

How do you determine that I speak for everyone else?

Quote:


Proof that owners of expensive 1.3 gear are upset too. Been there, done that guys

Huh? What is your proof?

Quote:


I own the Oppo 83se, ATI series 5000 series HTPC in three different SOTA systems. I own many expensive separates components and have looked and listened to them extensively. The repeated findings indicate that these Samsung's are superior.

What repeated findings? Provide a link or once again you are talking out of your.......

Quote:


If we (I mean I) step back and see that South Korea is on a roll...

What does this have to do with the quality of BR players? Just more ramblings.

Quote:


Samsung does not use ICE technology (the theoretical principles may be the same but completely different implementations).

Then why the reference to Pioneer's AVRs with ICE powered amp sections? If the 700 doesn't have comparable quality as that of the B&O's ICE modules then why try to make a comparison?

Quote:


There is a thread covering the M700 receiver and its technology. I realize that one does need an expensive heavy large hot amplifier anymore. Finally!

I'm sure the technology in the 700 compares to the quality of Bel Canto and Wyred 4 Sound amps.

Quote:


Consumer Reports does not recommend paying extra for warranties. I have never had any type of disc player go bad after use, they are defective from the get-go. Further the less costly a component is, the less need there is to insure it.

So true it is totally disposable so why pay to have it repaired. Its lucky for you that you do not need service from Samsung as from what I have read their service is quite poor. So much for S. Korea being on a roll.

Its funny that you still do not provide hard data backing up your opinion on how superior Samung BR players are to other players. Obviously you missed the above link showing the botched recent Samsung FW update or you just prefer to ignore it.

Bill

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post #3762 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 07:09 AM
 
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Here we see brand loyalty rearing its ugly head. No sense arguing against that.
I've made my point and its time to move on. Thanks for listening
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post #3763 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

My motivation is to advance the sate-of-the-art of high definition audio and video and at reasonable prices. Cut out the mysticism, snake oil, snobbishness, marketing and advertising out of the equation, and substitute in my experience and observations.

I can respect your OPINION, but let’s move on since I’ve seen similar postings on 2 other threads by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Here is why the Samsung 6800 at a fraction of the price (40% this week) merits consideration:
Smaller, lighter, less power, half the price, faster load times, Ethernet app, HDMI 1.4. plus 3D. What more do you want? Like better PQ too? Ok!

If the features of the Samsung are important to a perspective buyer, then it does merit consideration as well as other players that offer a similar feature set at a comparable price. The same can be said of the features of the Oppo. None of the features of the Samsung move the meter for ME. However, your GENERAL statement that this is why the Samsung is better than the Oppo is only your OPINION. This is why YOU think the Samsung is better in YOUR setup. Should we not expect players introduced late spring and early summer of 2010 to have some of these features. You never mention that you are comparing the feature set of a 2009 player to a 2010 player. Most of these features didn’t exist in 2009. Does the Samsung play SACDs and DVD-As (for those who need this support)? With the exception of the Oppo BDP-80 all sub $300.00 players feel like crap including my Samsung 6900, which I will be returning this weekend (90 day warranty). I presently own 5 other players from 3 manufacturers and ranking them 1 thru 6 the Samsung would be number 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

As an analogy it like comparing last years smart-phone's to this years. Enjoy the new technology and don't overpay.

I see the light bulb finally went off. Your comparison to the Oppo can be made against the Denon, Marantz and a few other players introduced in 2009. You are making an argument where none exists. It’s LOGICAL that newer players should have some new features, but those features are not important to everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I do respect current owners as the last thing you want to hear is some yahoo invalidating a careful well thought out choice. However I've learned to be quite discriminating and to not follow the crowd, as the handwriting is on the wall.

I take no offense to your comments and they don’t invalidate my purchase decision, because at the time (March ’09) of purchase my well thought out choice was the Oppo and not the Samsung model at that time. (lol) I have no regrest about a purchase decision I made over 18 months ago. If you allowed the crowd to sway your purchase decision, then you need to look in the mirror. I have a consensus of one when buying audio and video equipment. Me! There really isn't a comparison between the Oppo or any Samsung player. It's all about needs.

Last, state-of-the-art of high definition audio and video is advancing quite well on its own, but thanks for furthering the cause. Are you done now?


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post #3764 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I think there is a larger issue occurring here and it makes every technology consumer upset.
As an example lets say you purchased one of the best best $2000 receivers last year. Now with HDMI 1.4, these owners are understandably upset when they realize the low resale price. Those of us who had been burned before wisely put major upgrade plans on hold after HDMI 1.4 was announced. However now is the time to buy.

You're over you skis on this statement. HDMI 1.4 didn't just sneak up on us. It has been talked about for a few years and was pretty much on target as far as implementation. So most purchasing in 2009 would have been aware of this. Most of those owners purchased because they needed an AVR then and/or didn't care about the added features of HDMI 1.4. You speak as though you are the only person aware that technology is evolving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

In upgrading to Blu-ray 3D, I discovered that Samsung's 1.4 HDMI chips sound and look better than the 1.3 (or even 1.4) competition. This is a partial answer as to why their LCD displays are so clear and sharp. Combine this with their new digital Crystal amplifiers (yes Samsung makes receivers now) and you have the new reference standard for 2010. Pioneers 2009 1.3 receivers with ICE amplifiers cost over $2K, the 2010 Samsung 700 is $400.

This is not news that most consumer electronics interact better within the same family. Combine this with their new digital Crystal amplifiers (yes Samsung makes receivers now) and you have the new reference standard for 2010. When you start making outlandish and asinine comments like this you lose all credibility. Now a Samsung receiver is the new reference standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

So the pleasant 2010 surprise is, consumers can, for the first time, pay mid-fi prices for the highest levels of performance. This trend comes at the right time, as it helps alleviate our declining American standard of living.

The bottom line is for new customers, superior upscaling, 2D and 3D performance with superior HDMI 1.4 chips is available for $200. Last year's admission cost $500. Now is that progress? Proof that true capitalism and real competition breed innovation. All at reasonable prices.**

The oracle of home theater audio and video has spoken. Long live FiFiFun.


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post #3765 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I've made my point and its time to move on.

You haven't made any points, but I'm glad you're moving on. Also, I want to thank you for energizing this thread.

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post #3766 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Here we see brand loyalty rearing its ugly head. ng

Yes we do and apparently you can not see that you are the major offender.

We all have brand loyalty to a certain degree which is only natural. But I would assume (hope) there are not any Oppo owners loyal to their players trying to force feed their opinions on Samsung BR player owners in threads for Samsung BR players as you have tried here. Good idea in that you are moving on.

Bill

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post #3767 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Here we see brand loyalty rearing its ugly head. No sense arguing against that.
I've made my point and its time to move on. Thanks for listening

The only point you've made is your refusal to back up (with a link) the 'Better' PQ/audio of the sammy vs. the Oppo claim. I've specifically asked you, you specifically ignore
Nor have you been specific about 'what' is better about the PQ or Audio perf. You only say, 'ok, better!!' Yeah, that will sell me, lol.

If you want to add to the forum or this thread, useful posts about 'what' performs better on one gear vs. another is what AVS is all about, not just posting the ad copy from the manufactures web site or box art, which seems to be the Only thing you have posted so far.

What would you say if I said my Sharp LCD PQ is better than the Sammy LCD, then listed all the 'features' off the box art, and said the PQ is 'better'!!! And left it at that! Well my friend, that is exactly what you do.

So, if all you're gonna do is repeat the feature set, and mention irrelevant things that are better (like it is 'lighter'!! lol), then yes, I won't get in the way of a found farewell. But if you're actually gonna get specific and mention specifically 'what' is better about the PQ/audio, or post links of reviews saying such a thing, then I would welcome your posts.
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post #3768 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 10:13 AM
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The guy is obviously a troll who can't back up any of his wild claims...ignore him, please, and he'll go back to the hole he came from.


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post #3769 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Combine this with their new digital Crystal amplifiers (yes Samsung makes receivers now) and you have the new reference standard for 2010. Pioneers 2009 1.3 receivers with ICE amplifiers cost over $2K, the 2010 Samsung 700 is $400.

I was just at a local Fry's and saw the acclaimed AVR you referenced. What a joke and the salesmen actually laughed at the AVR. I normally try not to equate the weight of a component to build quality, but this is the exception. The Samsung HW-C700B weighs in at 13.2 lbs. The Oppo blu-ray player almost weighs more than that. I just adopted a new buying theory that my AVR has to weigh a minimum of four times as much as my blu-ray player unless of course if my blu-ray player weighs in excess of 20 lbs, then twice as much. 12 reviews on Amazon.com and an average 2 star rating.

Willie

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post #3770 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I was just at a local Fry's and saw the acclaimed AVR you referenced. What a joke and the salesmen actually laughed at the AVR. I normally try not to equate the weight of a component to build quality, but this is the exception. The Samsung HW-C700B weighs in at 13.2 lbs. The Oppo blu-ray player almost weighs more than that. I just adopted a new buying theory that my AVR has to weigh a minimum of four times as much as my blu-ray player unless of course if my blu-ray player weighs in excess of 20 lbs, then twice as much. 12 reviews on Amazon.com and an average 2 star rating.

Willie

Willie,

Thanks for the heads up. I was ready to put my 886 and BA A7200 amp up on Audiogon to "upgrade" to the HW-C700B. But I guess I will hold off till Samsung throws some rocks in the case to at least make it heavier. An average 2 star rating really shows how impressive the HW-C700B really is.

Bill

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post #3771 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 05:48 PM
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This topic is about to be closed. I would strongly suggest the off topic and personal comments come to a screeching halt.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #3772 of 3869 Old 08-25-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I own the Oppo 83se

No you never owned one. 83SE's audio DAC is so far superior that no Samsung products ever have even came close. Claiming the Samsung has better sound made all of your posts totally pointless.

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post #3773 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 08:42 AM
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Does any one know? I am about to get to the 83 or 83SE but I'll wait if the next generation player ifs coming out soon?

Andy Stine
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post #3774 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 08:48 AM
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Does any one know? I am about to get to the 83 or 83SE but I'll wait if the next generation player ifs coming out soon?

One person said OPPO told him of a 3D player in 6 or 12 months. No other details and there have been no other rumors.

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post #3775 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 08:50 AM
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There are rumors of a new player but no one (who can talk) knows if it is a successor to the 83. It could be something totally different such as a really low-cost player. Rumors do say end of year or early next year.

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post #3776 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 04:19 PM
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When you all compared oppo upscaling versus ps3 slim, did you all remember to turn of the filtering in the ps3? You have to do it when a standard DVD is playing.

Frame Noise Reduction
Block Noise Reduction
Mosquito Noise Reduction
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post #3777 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 09:34 PM
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Anybody know if Oppo is working on a 400 disc mega changer. I really miss my old Kenwood dvd mega changers. I do not like the concept of using servers, and I have always preferred buying the hard disc vs a computer download. Is there a chance of this event happening, or is there a better chance a Klingon will transport into my theater room and sell me a pair of those really cool shoes they wear?. Thanks.
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post #3778 of 3869 Old 08-26-2010, 10:56 PM
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I'd bet on the Klingon shoe salesman myself.

If your dead set on a Blu ray changer (I assume you want Blu), I'd probably get a good quality blu changer that has all the features you want, then hdmi it into a TOP of the line receiver with really good DAC's and video scalers/processors.

(I'm not too hip on the latest and greatest hi-end receivers----probably best to ask in the appropriate forum/thread).
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post #3779 of 3869 Old 08-27-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps24eva View Post

Where is the oppo compared to the ps3?

Or do I have to look through 126 pages?

By what criteria?

Start with Winston's rankings: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=63

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post #3780 of 3869 Old 08-27-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps24eva View Post

When you all compared oppo upscaling versus ps3 slim, did you all remember to turn of the filtering in the ps3? You have to do it when a standard DVD is playing.

Frame Noise Reduction
Block Noise Reduction
Mosquito Noise Reduction


Guess not

PS3>>>Oppo
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