Oppo BDP-83 or 83SE versus other blu ray players thread - Page 19 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

There's one born everyday...

Care to explain?
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I'm getting the modified OPPO, digital transport edition... compare that to the original oppo... http://www.custom-ht.com/

Looking forward to HD-SDI! Meridian SPDIF modification as well...

I see two HD-SDI mods on that page:

Oppo BDP-83 "Stock Oppo with HD-SDI" MSRP 1299$

Oppo BDP-83CHT "Digital Transport HD-SDI Ed." MSRP 1799$

Are these the FINAL prices? Too steep for me on a $500.00 unit. Good luck and let us know via feedback when you get it, one assumes they don't have any decks in stock at this point, so we all wait....
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I'm getting the modified OPPO, digital transport edition... compare that to the original oppo... http://www.custom-ht.com/

Looking forward to HD-SDI! Meridian SPDIF modification as well...

From the Custom-ht.com site

"We would put this player up against the Pioneer 09FD any day of the week and at 45% the cost. What are the 4 main selling points of the Pioneer?, these may sound familiar to you:

-universal capability with DVD, CD, DVD-Audio and SACD playback
-a high-end custom clock generator with very low jitter
-source direct output for all formats
-a toroidal designed power section"

I don't believe the 09 has capability for DVD-Audio and SACD playback
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:13 PM
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HD-SDI is a professional, more robust connection with BNC... no HDCP and therefore no handshake nonsense... much longer runs can be made (vs HDMI) as well.

Region Free mod, Merdian/Lexicon SPDIF digital output mod is huge for those with those processors...

It isn't about snake oil, it is about features not otherwise available without the modification. Not everyone needs them, but for those that do, it is an outstanding service.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

HD-SDI is a professional, more robust connection with BNC... no HDCP and therefore no handshake nonsense... much longer runs can be made (vs HDMI) as well.

Region Free mod, Merdian/Lexicon SPDIF digital output mod is huge for those with those processors...

It isn't about snake oil, it is about features not otherwise available without the modification. Not everyone needs them, but for those that do, it is an outstanding service.

People who haven't see HD-SDI really don't get it.

Our DVD player sends SD-SDI to our scaler, and our Blu-ray player sends HD-SDI to our scaler. Both look outstanding, and I'm really interested in the modded Oppo to upgrade from our interim Blu-ray player.

HDMI is a crock. It wasn't about better signal transmission. It was all about copy protection, and in so doing they screwed up the handshaking and made the whole signal path flakier. Half the posts on some of these threads seem to be about this or that player not being able to talk to this or that display.

*The studios don't use HDMI.* They know it sucks. They use HD-SDI--that's where it comes from. It's only when they burn a disk for the proletariat that they inflict HDMI on us.

And region-free/zone-free is awesome.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:15 AM
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In your post, you never really said that it looked any better. So are we to assume that if you're not experiencing handshake problems or are running the cable too long causing picture problems, that it doesn't improve the picture over HDMI???? This is regarding HD-SDI.

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Old 05-13-2009, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

People who haven't see HD-SDI really don't get it.

Our DVD player sends SD-SDI to our scaler, and our Blu-ray player sends HD-SDI to our scaler. Both look outstanding, and I'm really interested in the modded Oppo to upgrade from our interim Blu-ray player.

Quote:


HDMI is a crock. It wasn't about better signal transmission. It was all about copy protection, and in so doing they screwed up the handshaking and made the whole signal path flakier. Half the posts on some of these threads seem to be about this or that player not being able to talk to this or that display.

*The studios don't use HDMI.* They know it sucks. They use HD-SDI--that's where it comes from. It's only when they burn a disk for the proletariat that they inflict HDMI on us.

And region-free/zone-free is awesome.

This I can agree with. That said, I have been very lucky with handshake issues since the implementation of HDMI and it has proved convenient as far as hookups with other equipment and cable management. However, as the poster stated it has been a mess for others.

Region and Zone free is interesting but not at the price points indicated. I will have to keep my old
Denon 3910 for the region free duty.

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Old 05-13-2009, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

People who haven't see HD-SDI really don't get it.

Our DVD player sends SD-SDI to our scaler, and our Blu-ray player sends HD-SDI to our scaler. Both look outstanding, and I'm really interested in the modded Oppo to upgrade from our interim Blu-ray player.

HDMI is a crock. It wasn't about better signal transmission. It was all about copy protection, and in so doing they screwed up the handshaking and made the whole signal path flakier. Half the posts on some of these threads seem to be about this or that player not being able to talk to this or that display.

*The studios don't use HDMI.* They know it sucks. They use HD-SDI--that's where it comes from. It's only when they burn a disk for the proletariat that they inflict HDMI on us.

And region-free/zone-free is awesome.

Big + 1! HDMI is a CP cash cow for studios and silicon valley. The industry may not be better off without it but consumers and CI would.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

In your post, you never really said that it looked any better. So are we to assume that if you're not experiencing handshake problems or are running the cable too long causing picture problems, that it doesn't improve the picture over HDMI???? This is regarding HD-SDI.

HD-SDI by itself won't improve picture quality, assuming the HDMI chain isn't mucking with the signal (not necessarily a valid assumption, because of combo chips, systems-on-a-chip, etc. where you can't just get clean passthrough).

The real win from HD-SDI is that the raw feed out of the MPEG decoder is going to your scaler. If your scaler is better than the one in the player, then your picture quality can be better.

Plus HD-SDI runs over coax, and can run a looong distance with no problem, unlike HDMI.

Also, some people are lucky enough to have displays that accept HD-SDI inputs, in which case there isn't any HDMI/HDCP at all in the chain. Just like in the studios. Displays that accept HD-SDI inputs include some front projectors, and at least one plasma monitor intended for studios that I saw available to end users (the HD-SDI card was an option).

The sad thing is, HDMI was foisted on the hardware manufacturers by the studios. The companies making players didn't want the extra hassle, but they were forced into it.

I paid for every CD, DVD, and Blu-ray in our house. We have thousands of them. The studios should let me sign something that says I won't steal their content, and in return they should give me unencrypted content. But of course they think we're all thieves.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Region and Zone free is interesting but not at the price points indicated. I will have to keep my old
Denon 3910 for the region free duty.

Your 3910 won't play Blu-rays. So you don't get zone-free, only region-free.

You can get cheaper zone-free mods for Blu-ray players elsewhere. The cost of the mods I referred to include HD-SDI, analog upgrades, etc.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Your 3910 won't play Blu-rays. So you don't get zone-free, only region-free.

You can get cheaper zone-free mods for Blu-ray players elsewhere. The cost of the mods I referred to include HD-SDI, analog upgrades, etc.

Thanks for the info. I know my current players will not do Zone Free (HD) but I do have a lot of region 2 DVDs that the 3910 has been able to handle.

You are soooo right about the HDMI debacle.

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Old 05-13-2009, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

In your post, you never really said that it looked any better. So are we to assume that if you're not experiencing handshake problems or are running the cable too long causing picture problems, that it doesn't improve the picture over HDMI???? This is regarding HD-SDI.

With HD-SDI, the video signal is essentially output directly from the player's MPEG Decoder. In other words, the video is native and exactly what's on the disc. The player acts only as a digital transport, reading the disc with no processing applied. Once the video is output over HD-SDI, PQ depends on the quality of the video processor and video display.

To answer your question regarding whether the picture will be improved versus HDMI, it's up to the VP and a few uncontrollable HDMI related factors. By eliminating processing artifacts introduced by the player and eliminating any chance that the image may be corrupted and improperly output due to the HDMI handshake, the picture is usually superior over HD-SDI versus HDMI. Also, unlike HDMI's temperamental nature and loosely fitting HDMI connectors, the transmission of HD video via HD-SDI's Coax and BNC connection is very robust and trouble free, even over long distances.

If I remember correctly, Health Nut is the proud new father of a bouncing baby Sim2 LUMIS that offers a stock HD-SDI input. Sim2's proprietary video processing is beyond reproach and is noticeably better than most high end, outboard video processors. Therefore, the HD-SDI mod is worth every penny!
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

HD-SDI by itself won't improve picture quality, assuming the HDMI chain isn't mucking with the signal (not necessarily a valid assumption, because of combo chips, systems-on-a-chip, etc. where you can't just get clean passthrough).

The real win from HD-SDI is that the raw feed out of the MPEG decoder is going to your scaler. If your scaler is better than the one in the player, then your picture quality can be better.

Plus HD-SDI runs over coax, and can run a looong distance with no problem, unlike HDMI.

Also, some people are lucky enough to have displays that accept HD-SDI inputs, in which case there isn't any HDMI/HDCP at all in the chain. Just like in the studios. Displays that accept HD-SDI inputs include some front projectors, and at least one plasma monitor intended for studios that I saw available to end users (the HD-SDI card was an option).

The sad thing is, HDMI was foisted on the hardware manufacturers by the studios. The companies making players didn't want the extra hassle, but they were forced into it.

I paid for every CD, DVD, and Blu-ray in our house. We have thousands of them. The studios should let me sign something that says I won't steal their content, and in return they should give me unencrypted content. But of course they think we're all thieves.


It appears that with my slow typing skills and numerous interruptions, that we were essentially posting the same info at the same time. You beat me to it and your post was more eloquently stated!
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiodynamics View Post

It appears that with my slow typing skills and numerous interruptions, that we were essentially posting the same info at the same time. You beat me to it and your post was more eloquently stated!

Yours was interesting--it caused me to look up that projector.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

I paid for every CD, DVD, and Blu-ray in our house. We have thousands of them. The studios should let me sign something that says I won't steal their content, and in return they should give me unencrypted content. But of course they think we're all thieves.

I doubt that they think that we're all thieves, just enough of us that bootlegging cost them a tidy sum.

I use to have a photography business and people have no problem copying photos even with the correct copyright information displayed. Although HDCP can be a hassel, I think the studios are smart reducing the possibility of having their property copied rather than just trusting others to do the right thing. For you, an annoyance. For others, food on their table.

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Old 05-14-2009, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The Denon DBP-2010CI (nice play on model numbers, as this one use the ABT2010 de-interlacing and scaling solution) intrigues me.


Me too!
Now if this one can be made region/zone free through a software mod, then it's all the more interesting!

Especially since the Oppo 83 can only be third party modded at this point in time!

Cheers

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Old 05-14-2009, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodynamics View Post

With HD-SDI, the video signal is essentially output directly from the player's MPEG Decoder. In other words, the video is native and exactly what's on the disc. The player acts only as a digital transport, reading the disc with no processing applied. Once the video is output over HD-SDI, PQ depends on the quality of the video processor and video display.

How does this apply with regard to today's Blu-ray SoC solutions i.e. Panasonic Uniphier that essentially have the decoding and processing within the confines of a single chip.

How is it possible with these types of solution to tap into the signal directly following decoding given it's fully integrated nature ?

D
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The Denon DBP-2010CI (nice play on model numbers, as this one use the ABT2010 de-interlacing and scaling solution) intrigues me.

I'm interested as well. I'm wait listed for the Oppo but I'm probably so far down to be near general public release before I can order as I didn't sign up till late. If general public release is mid to late June as I've heard, I might just wait for the Denon DBP-2010. I don't need SACD or DVD-A and my primary focus was good DVD upconversion. Also given what I've read here about HDMI handshaking problems the Denon may be a better match for me as I purchased a Denon AVR-789 last year. The Denon might be a more trouble free integration.

It all depends on when Oppo sends me the invite email. Soon, I'll probably jump, if it gets into June I'll wait on the Denon.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:18 AM
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How does this apply with regard to today's Blu-ray SoC solutions i.e. Panasonic Uniphier that essentially have the decoding and processing within the confines of a single chip.

How is it possible with these types of solution to tap into the signal directly following decoding given it's fully integrated nature ?

D

Perhaps it is not possible to add an HD-SDI modification to players with an all in one processing chip?
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:26 AM
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Is it region/zone free för DVD and Blu-ray discs ?
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:40 AM
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Is it region/zone free för DVD and Blu-ray discs ?

No for both. To get a Blu-Ray license, Oppo had to disallow region/zone free. It will play both NTSC and PAL but the PAL discs have to be Region 0.

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Old 05-14-2009, 07:58 AM
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Can someone comment on built quality of the BD60 versus Oppo and noise?
Just got my BD60 (replacement) and it got a bit wobbly feet and seems to make pretty loud spinning noises with some DVDs (same problem as the first unit that I have returned).
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:06 AM
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The Panasonic is a good player but I feel that the Oppo is in a class of its own. Much better build quality and features. Very fast disk loading It also has the best upscailing for SD disks. The remote is great and the support from Oppo is amazing. That being said the cost is $200 more than the Panasonic 60. If you compare it to the Panasonic 80 the cost is about $100 more. The key questions is can you afford the difference in cost. If the answer is yes get the Oppo. If price is a factor the Panasonic is a very good player.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:25 AM
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In terms of features, BD60 is quite fine for me, but I was put off by the noise it seems to be making with some DVDs (I can hear it from 10 feet away). So, I am primarily trying to figure out if there is a big difference between the two in how loud they are.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by visia View Post

In terms of features, BD60 is quite fine for me, but I was put off by the noise it seems to be making with some DVDs (I can hear it from 10 feet away). So, I am primarily trying to figure out if there is a big difference between the two in how loud they are.

I'm not aware of current noise/vibration issues on the OPPO. Recent firmware has been tweaking performance to try to minimize it.

I do hear minor loading noises sometimes when getting through the intro material on a disc, but it has not been a problem on the main feature of either DVD or Blu-ray.

I don't know if this problem can be entirely eliminated for all discs, given the way they are manufacured (off-center holes) and often have paper stickers these days.

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Old 05-14-2009, 09:53 AM
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I think its not a BD60 problem per se, its more of an issue for some DVDs (especially the ones heavily used by the kids). I am assuming Panasonic is using cheaper tray components, so Oppo may be more consistent in not being noisy. Makybe somebody had similar issues with Panny.

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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I'm not aware of current noise/vibration issues on the OPPO. Recent firmware has been tweaking performance to try to minimize it.

I do hear minor loading noises sometimes when getting through the intro material on a disc, but it has not been a problem on the main feature of either DVD or Blu-ray.

I don't know if this problem can be enitrely eliminated for all discs, given the way they are manufacured (off-center holes) and often have paper stickers these days.

-Bill

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Old 05-14-2009, 03:55 PM
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With HD-SDI, the video signal is essentially output directly from the player's MPEG Decoder. In other words, the video is native and exactly what's on the disc. The player acts only as a digital transport, reading the disc with no processing applied.

An old wives tale that refuses to die... There were a couple of threads where this was discussed in detail, and it's simply not true. With any modern decoder chip, there may be a lot of processing after the MPEG decoder before it is output.

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Old 05-14-2009, 04:29 PM
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An old wives tale that refuses to die... There were a couple of threads where this was discussed in detail, and it's simply not true. With any modern decoder chip, there may be a lot of processing after the MPEG decoder before it is output.

Ummmm... his basis is correct. Some chips do have integrated processing and some do not. The New Oppo uses a chip that can tap the MPEG decoder output before any processing. So yes, I would suppose it depends on the type of MPEG decoder utilized.

HD-SDI is a better transmission method and with better cabling and BNC connectors as well. HDMI is a P.O.S... There is no HDCP nonsense involved either, no stupid HDCP handshake, and no crappy HDMI cabling which is overly complex and just poorly designed. Hard to believe HDMI specification had any significant peer review before it became a standard... must have been rushed through...
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:37 PM
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An old wives tale that refuses to die... There were a couple of threads where this was discussed in detail, and it's simply not true. With any modern decoder chip, there may be a lot of processing after the MPEG decoder before it is output.

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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Ummmm... his basis is correct. Some chips do have integrated processing and some do not. The New Oppo uses a chip that can tap the MPEG decoder output before any processing. So yes, I would suppose it depends on the type of MPEG decoder utilized.

HD-SDI is a better transmission method and with better cabling and BNC connectors as well. HDMI is a P.O.S...

I think the Oppo BDP-83 is the exception and not the rule in this regard. Gary Murrell has already commented on how pure the video output is with the Oppo under Source Direct.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15986348

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:23 PM
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Guess I missed my chance to get the BDP-83 EAP discount (I got the email offer), but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much money right now. What is the next best player for a somewhat lower price?

"Nobody looks good in high-def"
Doug Wilson - Weeds
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