Pioneer BDP-320/BDP-23FD Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

The BDP-23FD looks to be the most intriguing player to me, it has Burr Brown DAC's combined with higher-end filter capacitors. Should be a good player for what it does.

definitely the option if you're looking for player to do the decoding to analogues. if you're not, i struggle to make the value proposition of spending $200 more than the 320 for pure hdmi transport.
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post #542 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pixar View Post

The price is a lil too much for a re-badged Sharp isnt it! Anyone here have the Sharp model no? I'd like to look at its specs and compare with the 120.

exact model number is Sharp AQUOS BD-HP22U

check out the manual of the pioneer 120 and look at the menu screen shots - nearly identical to sharp models. i posted a thread here on this topic and it got shut down twice - guess i struck a nerve with some sponsors!
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post #543 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/546179.html

the sharp bp-hp22u has an aquos link that is very similar to kurolink

check out the button layout and display:

sharp 22 -Attachment 143875

pio 120 - Attachment 143876
LL
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post #544 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/546179.html

the sharp bp-hp22u has an aquos link that is very similar to kurolink

check out the button layout and display:

sharp 22 -Attachment 143875

pio 120 - Attachment 143876

Thanks! Given that I'm looking around for a BD player for the guest bedroom, I'd rather go with the Sharp since its about half the price of the Pioneer [online] albeit the refurb ones. Still woulda been nice...really want my place to turn into a Piocentric home
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post #545 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

exact model number is Sharp AQUOS BD-HP22U

check out the manual of the pioneer 120 and look at the menu screen shots - nearly identical to sharp models. i posted a thread here on this topic and it got shut down twice - guess i struck a nerve with some sponsors!

Why would it get shut down?!? Sometimes the censorship on forums in general is quite unnerving! Arent we here to inform and share with each other
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post #546 of 6393 Old 05-28-2009, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pixar View Post

Why would it get shut down?!? Sometimes the censorship on forums in general is quite unnerving! Arent we here to inform and share with each other

no idea. i put "allegedly" to avoid any worries about libel...bit weird to me too
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post #547 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

...i struggle to make the value proposition of spending $200 more [for the 23fd] than the 320 for pure hdmi transport.

I agree with you on this point. I'm not sure what to do. I bought the 320 for my Samsung downstairs, and it puts out a fantastic picture (IMO). However, I think I'm going to have to spend the cash to get the 23fd for my 151fd upstairs. I probably wouldn't notice the difference between the 320 and the 23fd, but I like the idea of a 'matching Elite set'. The damn marketers got me again!
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post #548 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 07:05 AM
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BTW, I see that the 23fd is available on Amazon and is in-stock. Perhaps this is old news, but I've been watching every few days and just saw it this AM. (Also, I haven't yet read a similar post.)
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post #549 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixar View Post

Why would it get shut down?!? Sometimes the censorship on forums in general is quite unnerving! Arent we here to inform and share with each other

I would suspect that forum sponsors pay to advertise on this site
and any detrimental news could possibly result in a lost sale.

Just speculating.

Back on topic, has anyone reviewed a 23FD yet?

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #550 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

definitely the option if you're looking for player to do the decoding to analogues. if you're not, i struggle to make the value proposition of spending $200 more than the 320 for pure hdmi transport.

slightly more refined soudning CD music quality.
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post #551 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

slightly more refined soudning CD music quality.

no, the 23 has nothing on the 320 as an HDMI transport in two channel. Multi-Channel PQLS isn't even available yet because no AVR's support it, but even when it is it won't help CD two channel.
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post #552 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 01:01 PM
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Just a FYI, a firmware update came out for the 320/23 today:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ontent/Blu-ray
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post #553 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

no, the 23 has nothing on the 320 as an HDMI transport in two channel. Multi-Channel PQLS isn't even available yet because no AVR's support it, but even when it is it won't help CD two channel.

I'm referring to using BDP-23FD for 2ch analog out for CD music titles. New Burr Brown DAC's and filter capacitors, slightly more refined sound. This is in-addition to analog sound quality for surround.
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post #554 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

exact model number is Sharp AQUOS BD-HP22U

check out the manual of the pioneer 120 and look at the menu screen shots - nearly identical to sharp models. i posted a thread here on this topic and it got shut down twice - guess i struck a nerve with some sponsors!

Best thing that Pioneer ever did was re-badging a Sharp model because finally you get a Pioneer player that operationally is quick. I just picked up one of these 120's after owning two Elite 05's, a 51 and a 320 and the 120 is the most reasonable in terms of operation. It comes on quick, is very responsive and has a reasonable chapter advance, unlike my 05's which booted on slow, had an unreasonable delay we advancing chapters and was overall much less responsive. As soon as we realize that the video is pretty much the same on all of these machines, then it comes down to functionality and the re-badged Sharp is a step in the right direction for Pioneer.
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post #555 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

Just a FYI, a firmware update came out for the 320/23 today:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ontent/Blu-ray

Thanks. Just performed the update via the player's ethernet connection. Went pretty smooth, but update takes a while to install.
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post #556 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGood View Post

Best thing that Pioneer ever did was re-badging a Sharp model because finally you get a Pioneer player that operationally is quick. I just picked up one of these 120's after owning two Elite 05's, a 51 and a 320 and the 120 is the most reasonable in terms of operation. It comes on quick, is very responsive and has a reasonable chapter advance, unlike my 05's which booted on slow, had an unreasonable delay we advancing chapters and was overall much less responsive. As soon as we realize that the video is pretty much the same on all of these machines, then it comes down to functionality and the re-badged Sharp is a step in the right direction for Pioneer.

any feedback you can give on sd dvd upscaling would be greatly appreciated.
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post #557 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

Thanks. Just performed the update via the player's ethernet connection. Went pretty smooth, but update takes a while to install.

ditto. going to test load times and see if this had a meaningful impact or was more of a disc compatability upgrade. thank god we're not waiting on dts hd ma
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post #558 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

ditto. going to test load times and see if this had a meaningful impact or was more of a disc compatability upgrade. thank god we're not waiting on dts hd ma

Yeah let us know, I'm gonna hold off on upgrading firmware until I hear from you guys..I dont have a problem with the load time but def wont mind it being quicker
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post #559 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 04:02 PM
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Firmware addresses

Ver 3.13

CHANGE HISTORY:
- Enhances BD-ROM playability and stability of BD-Java playback (*)
- Enhances stability of BD-LIVE functions
* The player's action can be slower than expected depending on contents (menu, game, etc.) included in certain BD-Java discs.
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post #560 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by everunman View Post

Firmware addresses

Ver 3.13

CHANGE HISTORY:
- Enhances BD-ROM playability and stability of BD-Java playback (*)
- Enhances stability of BD-LIVE functions
* The player's action can be slower than expected depending on contents (menu, game, etc.) included in certain BD-Java discs.




Tell me that doesnt translate to it will be slower to power up and load after firmware upgrade!
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post #561 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixar View Post

[/b]

Tell me that doesnt translate to it will be slower to power up and load after firmware upgrade!

Times are identical best I can tell. Cold eject about 26. power on just under 25.
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post #562 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pixar View Post

[/b]

Tell me that doesnt translate to it will be slower to power up and load after firmware upgrade!

This is a standard disclaimer, even displayed on the discs themselves, to account for the variables of how much, how complex and how well written the BD-J code is. Power up isn't related to this (and doesn't seem to be mentioned in the change history), so shouldn't be a problem.
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post #563 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 05:12 PM
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any feedback you can give on sd dvd upscaling would be greatly appreciated.

I don't "upscale", I have been enjoying a beautiful picture via componenet to a Hitachi Director's Series Rear projection TV. My issue with this player so far is that I can't get it to bitstream surround sound, only stereo via HDMI...........I wish I could figure out the audio as this player looks like a winner for BD.
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post #564 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Was at Bestbuy and thought for sh*ts and giggles I would give the 120 a run for its money.

Attachment 143961

My initial thoughts are this is a Sharp re-badge. Although it is an attractive player, build quality appears poor. The tray rattles when opened and the front panel buttons feel thin and plasticy and like they might break if used frequently. The tray is loose and can be manipulated. The front facade on the tray is very loose and actually feels like it might fall off. Once again, it is an attractive player, but the led chapter readout is pure sharp. it is a dark purple with white lettering. It says BYE when you turn off the player.

The Kuro Link does not work - when activated it was outputting 480i to my 5010. It took me three times of playing with the settings to finally get it to output 1080p despite it was set to auto out of the box. You cannot switch output resolution on the fly. The video output resolution button on the remote does not work best I can tell. The remote is slightly different than the 51/320:

Attachment 143962

The menu is set up with four basic selections. The GUI looks very budget and is not the refined GUI i love on the 51/320, though it is probably more straightforward. There are no tweaking menus for nr, brightness, etc. There is not deep color setting, but BD playback did appear as 36 bit on my kuro.

Attachment 143963

There is no setting to adjust output resolution to 24fps. The display during playback is even worse (no mb/s read-out, no resolution).

Performance:

The cons: BD playback is a bit dull. I prefer the image on the panasonic 55, 320, 51 and oppo. SD DVD upscaling is standard, probably a hair worse than my panasonic 55. Jaggies appear in any closely spaced line and are visible in credits even when stationary. Responsiveness is sluggish and the player sounds like a blender - lots of grinding and gearing noises.

The pros: Quickstart works - the disc tray opens immediately when you press eject. It has to be right at a second or two. It loads relatively quickly - QOS loaded in a respectable 42 seconds. It struggled with POCI - taking about 1 min 27 secs to get to the disney splash screen.


SD DVD Upscaling:

I ran it through the S&M disc and results are below. I also tried some test material and found it did a reasonable job, but was prone to jaggies. It seemed to favor motion over detail; I realize that's a very subjective comment, so please read below.



Source Adaptive Deinterlacing
Cadence: Racecar testing for moire in stands
Test / Pio 320 / Oppo / Panny 55 / Pio 120
2:2 / pass / pass / pass /pass
2:2:2:4 / fail / pass / fail / fail
2:3:2:3 (PF-T) fail / pass /marginal (minor moire) / pass
2:3:2:3 / pass / pass / marginal (minor moire) / fail
2:3:3:2 / fail / pass /fail / fail
3:2:3:2:2 / fail / pass / fail / fail
5:5 / fail / pass / fail / fail
6:4 / fail / pass / fail /fail
8:7:8:7 / fail / pass / fail / fail
24p - pass / pass / pass / pass
Difficult edits - pass / pass / pass /pass
Time-adjusted / fail / pass / fail / pass

Edge Adaptive Test Patterns

Jaggie test - Pio 320
Speedometer: pass 45 to 5. fail +/- 5, pass -45 to -5
Ship: Pass
horizontal scrolling text: pass
vertical scrolling text: pass

Jaggie test - Oppo 83
Speedometer: pass 45 to 5. fail +/- 5, pass -45 to -5
Ship: Pass
horizontal scrolling text: pass
vertical scrolling text: pass

Jaggie test - Panny 55
Speedometer: pass 45 to 5. fail +/- 5, pass -45 to -5
Ship: Marginal - minor jaggies
horizontal scrolling text: pass
vertical scrolling text: marginal - minor jaggies

Jaggie test - Pio 120
Speedometer: fail
Ship: marginal - minor jaggies
horizontal scrolling text: pass
vertical scrolling text: marginal - minor jaggies

All in all, I think this is a thinly veiled sharp with mediocre performance in many regards. The kuro link features do not work - hilariously my non-pioneer players did a much better job of 'talking' to my kuro.

In this price range, opt for a JVC XV BP1. This unit will be headed back to BestBuy tomorrow morning.
LL
LL
LL
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post #565 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 05:40 PM
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Nice review Winston, thanks. Again, I only use a BD player for BD and in general, consider SD performance secondary. I have had at least a dozen BD players and still don't see an appreciable picture difference, at this point whether one is slightly better than the other is an unscientific opinion. In terms of build, my 120 is pretty tight, I don't have any rattles on mine and it is superb as far as responsiveness. In comparison, my experience with two 05's (and a 3rd on the way), the 51 and the 320, the Pioneers are far some of the worst in terms of operability, the Sharp influence has really made a positive difference.
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post #566 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
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... the Pioneers are far some of the worst in terms of operability, the Sharp influence has really made a positive difference.

Can you describe the negative "operability" issues you've encountered?
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post #567 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 06:12 PM
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Can you describe the negative "operability" issues you've encountered?

Comparatively slow start up, slow load time, slow chapter skips, fairly unresponsive remote. I like Pioneer mostly for the aesthetics and in the long run, the quality seems to be pretty good. I was kind of excited that the 120 would output audio via HDMI in combination with component for video because this would be the only Pioneer that would do this without going to the 05. I was pleasantly surprised to find out how much better this player was to use, unfortunately I can't figure out how to get the HDMI to go from stereo to hidef sound. I have another 05 on the way so I will probably return the 120 and step down in convenience but gain a better built player that is nicer to look at, things I also value.
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post #568 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGood View Post

Comparatively slow start up, slow load time, slow chapter skips, fairly unresponsive remote. I like Pioneer mostly for the aesthetics and in the long run, the quality seems to be pretty good. I was kind of excited that the 120 would output audio via HDMI in combination with component for video because this would be the only Pioneer that would do this without going to the 05. I was pleasantly surprised to find out how much better this player was to use, unfortunately I can't figure out how to get the HDMI to go from stereo to hidef sound. I have another 05 on the way so I will probably return the 120 and step down in convenience but gain a better built player that is nicer to look at, things I also value.

Thanks for the info. No idea why you're not getting Surround. Audio output settings in the 120? An incorrect selection on your receiver?

Have you considered the 320 instead of the 120 or 05? Seems like that would be the way to go if you wanted to stay with Pioneer, but didn't go up to the Elite 23. Profile 2, which the 05 doesn't have, might be a useful feature in the future. The 05 can't be upgraded.

I'm looking into the 320 or 23 because they'll output 7.1 analog. Don't have an HDMI receiver, but my old Pioneer DD/DTS does have 7.1 analog inputs, so will hear the new HD audio formats without buying new gear.

If you're familiar with the Sony BDP-S350 - where would you rank the Pioneer's you've seen in comparison?
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post #569 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 07:03 PM
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Was at a local BB in NYC today and they had the 120 in stock. The unit was not on display, so I don't know how much they were asking for it. I did notice that the 120 is packaged with a SanDisk 1GB Cruzer USB Flash Drive, so it probably doesn't have the 1GB of memory built in.
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post #570 of 6393 Old 05-29-2009, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGood View Post

Comparatively slow start up, slow load time, slow chapter skips, fairly unresponsive remote. I like Pioneer mostly for the aesthetics and in the long run, the quality seems to be pretty good. I was kind of excited that the 120 would output audio via HDMI in combination with component for video because this would be the only Pioneer that would do this without going to the 05. I was pleasantly surprised to find out how much better this player was to use, unfortunately I can't figure out how to get the HDMI to go from stereo to hidef sound. I have another 05 on the way so I will probably return the 120 and step down in convenience but gain a better built player that is nicer to look at, things I also value.

andygood, i found the menus very limited and did not always respond as one would think. I had to change output resolution three or four times to get out of 480i output. i wonder if the hdmi settings are not outputting the full surround. I cannot remember if there is a setting other than audio output preference.
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