Official: Denon DBP-2010CI Blu-ray Player - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 912 Old 08-09-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

I have been doing some comparison of a number of discs and have been really impressed by this player's ability. At this point, I think it offers the best sd dvd upscaling I have experienced save the Oppo. I would say it is on par with the Pioneer 320/51, but does not appear to crush blacks and offers good shadow detail. For Pioneer owners, do not take this as a criticism; the Pioneer 320/51 offer incredible dvd playback in my humbe opinion.

To add some objectivity, here are the results of the deinterlacing tests offered by S&M test disc for film cadences:

Test Pio 320 Oppo JVC denon 1800 denon 2500 denon 2010
2:02 pass pass* pass fail fail pass
2:2:2:4 fail pass pass fail fail fail
2:3:2:3 (PF-T) Pass pass pass pass* pass pass*
2:3:2:3 pass pass pass pass pass* pass
2:3:3:2 marg pass pass fail fail fail
3:2:3:2:2 fail pass pass fail fail fail
5:05 pass pass pass marginal marginal marginal
6:04 marginal pass pass fail fail marginal
8:7:8:7 marginal pass pass maginal marginal marginal
24p - Pass pass pass pass pass pass
Time-adjusted fail pass fail marginal fail fail

When looking at the results above it looks like the JVC is a better Blu-ray player than the 320. Am I reading this chart correctly? Is this chart comparing the SDDVD upconversion quality of these players?

I have a Denon AVR-2310CI and I want to purchase a Blu-ray player less than $300.00. I am trying to decide between the Panny BD60/80, JVC, and 320. The Denon 1610 is too pricey right now. What do you think?

Thank you!
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post #272 of 912 Old 08-09-2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indydoc View Post

When looking at the results above it looks like the JVC is a better Blu-ray player than the 320. Am I reading this chart correctly? Is this chart comparing the SDDVD upconversion quality of these players?

I have a Denon AVR-2310CI and I want to purchase a Blu-ray player less than $300.00. I am trying to decide between the Panny BD60/80, JVC, and 320. The Denon 1610 is too pricey right now. What do you think?

Thank you!

these are merely synthetic tests and add some objectivity to comments about upconverted quality. I would post in the help me choose a player thread. considering you are posting in the more expensive model to the 1610 (which is too pricey for you), the post is a bit off topic and has nothing to do with the 2010. You should be able to get some good feedback in the help me choose thread.
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post #273 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 09:14 AM
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Attention Current Owners:

There was af firmware update within the past week. I checked last night and installed it. I have no idea what was included/fixed. Though I do know the HDMI/CEC issue with the Pioneer Kuro was not.
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post #274 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJaret View Post

Attention Current Owners:

There was af firmware update within the past week. I checked last night and installed it. I have no idea what was included/fixed. Though I do know the HDMI/CEC issue with the Pioneer Kuro was not.

have you turned off the hdmi control on the kuro? it really helped my handshake issues...

as an off topic comment, i have similar hdmi issues with my jvc - it appears the kuro does not like some of the newer bd players handshaking.
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post #275 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

these are merely synthetic tests and add some objectivity to comments about upconverted quality. I would post in the help me choose a player thread. considering you are posting in the more expensive model to the 1610 (which is too pricey for you), the post is a bit off topic and has nothing to do with the 2010. You should be able to get some good feedback in the help me choose thread.

Agreed, the post is a bit off topic. I'll post in the help me choose thread. Thank you.
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post #276 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

have you turned off the hdmi control on the kuro? it really helped my handshake issues...

as an off topic comment, i have similar hdmi issues with my jvc - it appears the kuro does not like some of the newer bd players handshaking.

I decided to leave it on. The messages only appear initially. I like that my receiver changes to Blu-ray input on its own and that when I power off the television everything, including the player, turns off.

I don't understand how Denon can get the CEC control right with my AVR-3808CI and screw-up with the DBP-2010CI.
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post #277 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJaret View Post

I decided to leave it on. The messages only appear initially. I like that my receiver changes to Blu-ray input on its own and that when I power off the television everything, including the player, turns off.

I don't understand how Denon can get the CEC control right with my AVR-3808CI and screw-up with the DBP-2010CI.

Candidly, I think the problem is on the pioneer end.
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post #278 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 04:41 PM
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Any news/info how to get this player region free for dvd's ?
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post #279 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 06:02 PM
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Dropped from 17 seconds to 13-14 seconds!!!!
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post #280 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 08:28 PM
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For those of you interested, I put the 1610 on the bench. My results are posted here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168937
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post #281 of 912 Old 08-10-2009, 08:45 PM
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Thanks for all the info winston, I'm trying to narrow down the search for my next blu-ray player and your experience with the 2010 and 1610 has been very helpful!
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post #282 of 912 Old 08-11-2009, 07:33 AM
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I have to agree with Winston imput about this player .
Just wanted to add, I think the audio quality of this player is a huge improvement over the other players i"ve had Toshiba xa2 panasonic 55, 80.( I"am using analog )
The difference in price I think is justified . I wonder how this player would stack up aganst the Denon $4,000. universal player.
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post #283 of 912 Old 08-11-2009, 09:22 AM
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I have just joined this forum and have not read the whole thing. I am wondering what BluRay player would be the best for the money. I have done a little research and have been thinking about the Denon DBP-2010CI, Oppo BDP-83 or the Pioneer BDP-23FD. I am leaning more towards the Denon or the Oppo. This will be matched with my Denon AVR-2308CI. Would someone summarize this forum as to which is best and why.
Thank you Very Much!!! Roadbike
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post #284 of 912 Old 08-11-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadbike View Post

I have just joined this forum and have not read the whole thing. I am wondering what BluRay player would be the best for the money. I have done a little research and have been thinking about the Denon DBP-2010CI, Oppo BDP-83 or the Pioneer BDP-23FD. I am leaning more towards the Denon or the Oppo. This will be matched with my Denon AVR-2308CI. Would someone summarize this forum as to which is best and why.
Thank you Very Much!!! Roadbike

roadbike, there is a thread for just such questions called the "HELP ME CHOOSE A BLU RAY PLAYER" thread. Please re-post your question there.

Owner threads like this are really for usage and technical questions only; otherwise threads would be clogged with questions from new posters about "should I get the...or the..."
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post #285 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 11:28 AM
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Why aren't people rushing out to buy this player? It is readily available on the internet from a few authorized Denon retailers (Crutchfield, OneCall & J&R). I'm pretty sure a big part of it is price, but what else could be contributing?


Respectfully,
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post #286 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 11:31 AM
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Because for this player to be competitive it should be less expensive than the Oppo. On this forum, the Oppo is the Denon's biggest problem.
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post #287 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 11:50 AM
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The main reason why this player isn't flying of the shelves has to be the PRICE!
With all the other available choises, only the most faithful Denon fans would be willing to pay the retail prices they are asking for this player.
When this player hits the $400.00 range, it will become much more appealing, and most likely will start moving.
The player does have many good things going for it in terms of components, performance and styling.
IMO, the main thing holding it back is the current asking prices.
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post #288 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
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I agree, I would love to own this player. It has fantastic styling and it would match my AVR-2809 very nicely, and I could move my Sony S350 and 3100ES DVD player to a bedroom setup and have only one player in my main home theater, *but*, I can't justify it's price right now.
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post #289 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAVHTx View Post

I agree, I would love to own this player. It has fantastic styling and it would match my AVR-2809 very nicely, and I could move my Sony S350 and 3100ES DVD player to a bedroom setup and have only one player in my main home theater, *but*, I can't justify it's price right now.

Call your local dealers - Modia here in Houston quoted me $440 for it.
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post #290 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 01:12 PM
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I'm in Canada, MRSP is $899, I was quoted $785 tax in... After shipping and currency conversion the Oppo is $610.
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post #291 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAVHTx View Post

I agree, I would love to own this player. It has fantastic styling and it would match my AVR-2809 very nicely, and I could move my Sony S350 and 3100ES DVD player to a bedroom setup and have only one player in my main home theater, *but*, I can't justify it's price right now.

The 2010CI does not do SACD, so it can't completely replace your 3100ES player.
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post #292 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Call your local dealers - Modia here in Houston quoted me $440 for it.

I could try calling some local dealers, but even if I could get it for $440.00 there is still sales tax which is pretty steep in California.
The top price I would be willing to pay from a online source/dealer is $425.00 shipped and NO tax.
Until then I will continue to hold out.
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post #293 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 04:15 PM
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I will say I have had some time to do some more and more a/b ing with the audio section of this player. it is damn awesome and i prefer it the dacs/implementation in my onkyo 906 on bds. this player's true strength is in its audio section.
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post #294 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 04:17 PM
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oh and it does suffer from the lower voltage lfe channel like many other players - believe this is a dolby spec. i have to dial down the other channels in order to get the lfe to normal levels.
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post #295 of 912 Old 08-14-2009, 09:13 PM
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One item I don't see much discussed is the quality of audio over HDMI. My Samsung died after 5 months (and with 90 days labor it is probably a boat anchor now). Replaced it with the 2010 and audio is substantially better, especially with CDs. I use HDMI output only for audio.
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post #296 of 912 Old 08-15-2009, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post

One item I don't see much discussed is the quality of audio over HDMI. My Samsung died after 5 months (and with 90 days labor it is probably a boat anchor now). Replaced it with the 2010 and audio is substantially better, especially with CDs. I use HDMI output only for audio.

sbradley02,

I would think the sound would be the same if you are bitstreaming over HDMI.



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post #297 of 912 Old 08-15-2009, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post

One item I don't see much discussed is the quality of audio over HDMI. My Samsung died after 5 months (and with 90 days labor it is probably a boat anchor now). Replaced it with the 2010 and audio is substantially better, especially with CDs. I use HDMI output only for audio.

try running a parallel connection of decent rca cables from the stereo output of the 2010 to your receiver for cd playback. i think you will find the audio superior to over hdmi.

although my onkyo 906 can easily handle audio decoding, i am becoming more and more convert that audio quality is better without the 906's post processing and digitization.
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post #298 of 912 Old 08-15-2009, 07:36 AM
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One complaint re the 2010: unsure why denon felt it necessary to drop the NR setting from the Picture adjustment menu from the 2500.
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post #299 of 912 Old 08-15-2009, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

sbradley02,

I would think the sound would be the same if you are bitstreaming over HDMI.



Respectfully,
Willie

A lot of people assume this to be so, but it isn't the case IMO. Two highly debated areas of concern are noise in the digital bitstream and digital jitter. Both have been demonstrated to have audible effects under certain circumstances but the debate centers around whether the levels found in modern equipment is audible.

As to trying out the internal DACs for 2 channel, this is an experiment I would like to try out.
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post #300 of 912 Old 08-15-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post

A lot of people assume this to be so, but it isn't the case IMO. Two highly debated areas of concern are noise in the digital bitstream and digital jitter. Both have been demonstrated to have audible effects under certain circumstances but the debate centers around whether the levels found in modern equipment is audible.

As to trying out the internal DACs for 2 channel, this is an experiment I would like to try out.

I know it's anathema for a lot on this forum. but I am with sbradley. I do not believe you can reduce bitstreams to the same 1s or 0s across all players. error correction might have something to do with it. it may well largely be a placebo effect, but I feel i can perceive differences amongst bitstreams of the same codec. Volume can even be different when all things are held equal.

here's a professional echoing my sentiment:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-r...r.html?start=3
the author is comparing the differences in the bitstream b/w denon and samsung
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