joerod Blu ray Player Comparison Ratings Summer 2009 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Dude, I didn't mean anything by it. I know some people beta test products and such, and don't like to talk about that publicly.
Maybe a player could be on loan, borrowed from a friend, "in review", or whatever.

Hey, I wish I had half your electronics budget .
Thanks for the reviews and comparisons. Your work is much appreciated.

Based on the info I've read thus far, the DenonA1 is overpriced by a large margin IMO. Requiring that it be paired with a high end Denon AVR to even work properly is outrageous to me.
Good luck making your choice.

I wasn't saying you meant anything by it. I just wanted to make sure others knew that I am human and this is not easy. If I didn't have the 4310 I would probably agree with you. Since I do it makes it harder. And as far as borrowed from a friend, on loan or in a review I have not hit that level yet. Maybe someday...

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post #92 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 09:20 PM
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Joe:

I've already said thanks once, but that is really not enough... You are truly one of the guys who make it interesting and enjoyable to visit this forum!

Fred
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post #93 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

Joe:

I've already said thanks once, but that is really not enough... You are truly one of the guys who make it interesting and enjoyable to visit this forum!

Fred

Easy there Fred. I think Joe is married. (j/k)

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post #94 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 09:45 PM
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Easy there Fred. I think Joe is married. (j/k)

I am a bit envious of Joe..... I had to get divorced before I could buy my toys....
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post #95 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That is weird. I even talked with a Denon engineer about it and he confirmed they only did 10 bit. Still though, 16 bit versus 12 bit could make a slight difference. Though not enough to make it a dealbreaker for either or. Thanks for reporting though.

The Denon may output in 12bit video mode (i.e. reported as 12bit by display), but you are only truly getting 10bit of color data since it is internally limited to 10bit due to the Realta chipset (10bit limited according to Silicon Optix specifications) being in the video path. Sort of like having a 256 color .GIF with only 128 active colors and the rest of the palette blacked out; it is still reported as a 256-color .GIF as it is capable of 256 colors in the palette, but in reality it only uses 128 of them.

This is probably why the Denon engineer said it only did 10bit. Even if it outputs in a 12bit video mode, it is restricted to 10bit of actual color data due to Realta.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #96 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

The Denon may output in 12bit video mode (i.e. reported as 12bit by display), but you are only truly getting 10bit of color data since it is internally limited to 10bit due to the Realta chipset (10bit limited according to Silicon Optix specifications) being in the video path. Sort of like having a 256 color .GIF with only 128 active colors and the rest of the palette blacked out; it is still reported as a 256-color .GIF as it is capable of 256 colors in the palette, but in reality it only uses 128 of them.

This is probably why the Denon engineer said it only did 10bit. Even if it outputs in a 12bit video mode, it is restricted to 10bit of actual color data due to Realta.

Thanks Ruined. I was expecting a callback today and wil probably get one tomorrow so now I know exactly what he is going to say. Good explanation.

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post #97 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

Joe:

I've already said thanks once, but that is really not enough... You are truly one of the guys who make it interesting and enjoyable to visit this forum!

Fred

I do it for fellow members like you. Seriously. I enjoy doing it to.

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post #98 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a bit envious of Joe..... I had to get divorced before I could buy my toys....

My Wife gets more upset with the amount of time I spend "down there" but I am making it up to her with a Las Vegas trip in a couple weeks.

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post #99 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:33 PM
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i am a bit envious of joe..... I had to get divorced before i could buy my toys.... :d

:d
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post #100 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:35 PM
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joe,

As everyone else has said, I also really appreciate all the hard work that you put into doing this player comparison. Doing a comparison of this scope is no small feat. My hats off to you. Thanks you very much.


Seth
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post #101 of 220 Old 07-01-2009, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Seth.

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post #102 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 12:14 AM
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Joerod with the A1 Networked (not the 3800) how much slower is it than the Oppo?
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post #103 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

My Wife gets more upset with the amount of time I spend "down there" but I am making it up to her with a Las Vegas trip in a couple weeks.

Maybe ... in time for CES?
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post #104 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Joerod with the A1 Networked (not the 3800) how much slower is it than the Oppo?

Still considerably slower but I have not ever timed it. On the plus side you can at least put the disc in it within 2 seconds of turning it on. When you see the image one of the last things on your mind is the load times.

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post #105 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe ... in time for CES?

Exactly.

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post #106 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Same here but it didn't look like they were the exact same time stamp. I've always found the hardest part of getting a screen shot is to pause the player when there is absolutely no motion. If we could get the exact same (or very close) time stamp, we might be able to tell if the Denon was really that much clearer.

I really feel that unless we can post HD pictures ie 1920x1080 (2Mbits) then comparison don't help much as there is too much compression introduced when sending say a 200K jpeg image, which is not a true representation of what is on the screen.
Any chance of the limit being increased to allowed this?
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post #107 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:04 AM
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Joe,
Great review!!!!! I was considering looking at the A1, but like you I have the 09 and if they are that close then maybe I will rethink.
Joe, what display device do you use that supports 16 bit deep color?
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post #108 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe,
Great review!!!!! I was considering looking at the A1, but like you I have the 09 and if they are that close then maybe I will rethink.
Joe, what display device do you use that supports 16 bit deep color?

I actually only know of one display that will say it is getting 16 bit and that is in Japan. Still though most displays that say deep color capable will say 12 bit but I am a firm believer that sending more info (16 bit) is better. My display is the Sony VW200 pj which has the latest firmware version (came out late April/early May) and according to my engineer conversation it will accept 16 bit. I don't have any way to confirm it is getting it except for the fact the image(color) looks somewhat better going directly to it instead of taking a detour. And I guess 16 is more than 12, 10 and or 8...

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post #109 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:28 AM
 
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Great info here/But would like to add in my testing of different BD players.We found very little difference in video quality with most of the brands of players.Even found the $168 Magnavox close to the Denon in over all video.No audio test were done.This was also done with fp's on a 110in screen.The different fp made the biggest change by far.
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post #110 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Great info here/But would like to add in my testing of different BD players.We found very little difference in video quality with most of the brands of players.Even found the $168 Magnavox close to the Denon in over all video.No audio test were done.This was also done with fp's on a 110in screen.The different fp made the biggest change by far.

So after making adjustments they were all pretty much still the same? What about for SD dvds and or 1080i and 1080p/60? Unless you were using a 720p display there should have been noticable differences.

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post #111 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by buddahead View Post

Great info here/But would like to add in my testing of different BD players.We found very little difference in video quality with most of the brands of players.Even found the $168 Magnavox close to the Denon in over all video.No audio test were done.This was also done with fp's on a 110in screen.The different fp made the biggest change by far.

Not surprising.. 1080P24 is simply lifted off the disc and passed on to the display. All a chip. All digital - no analog conversion in the player.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #112 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:44 AM
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So after making adjustments they were all pretty much still the same? What about for SD dvds and or 1080i and 1080p? Unless you were using a 720p display there should have been noticable differences.

But not for 1080P24? Or huge differences??? I didn't see you address this specifically.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #113 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Not surprising.. 1080P24 is simply lifted off the disc and passed on to the display. All digital - no analog conversion in the player.

I would agree with that until you can "tweak or dial in" the players that have the picture adjustments. Not to mention being able to avoid detours also helps.

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post #114 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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But not for 1080P24? Or huge differences??? I didn't see you address this specifically.

Answered above.

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post #115 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 05:30 AM
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Joe, Do you ever sleep?

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post #116 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I would agree with that until you can "tweak or dial in" the players that have the picture adjustments. Not to mention being able to avoid detours also helps.

How do you have your display's calibrated??

I have mine calibrated almost entirely in the projector - using the projector's adjustments - obviously to get to red, green, blue, etc yo need the projector's service menu - these adjustments are not adjustable in any player). The only adjustments in my 4 HD players is contrast and / or brightness (3 BD players, 1 HD DVD). In my set up, most players are at '0' to '-2' for contrast or brightness with no other player adjustments (besides IRE setting).

What are you exactly dialing in more than what I do??

Thanks.

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post #117 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 06:40 AM
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I have mine calibrated almost entirely in the projector - using the projector's adjustments - obviously to get to red, green, blue, etc yo need the projector's service menu - these adjustments are not adjustable in any player).

Both primary and secondary colors are adjustable using the LG BD390 Blu-ray player. Now how well I don't have a clue as Ken Whitcomb calibrated my projector and I wasn't going to let the player goof up his work.
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post #118 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 06:41 AM
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Both primary and secondary colors are adjustable using the LG BD390 Blu-ray player. Now how well I don't have a clue as Ken Whitcomb calibrated my projector and I wasn't going to let the player goof up his work.

Ken knows what is going on. He is a wine guy, too.. My ISF guy does as I quoted.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #119 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 06:52 AM
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Great info here/But would like to add in my testing of different BD players.We found very little difference in video quality with most of the brands of players.Even found the $168 Magnavox close to the Denon in over all video.No audio test were done.This was also done with fp's on a 110in screen.The different fp made the biggest change by far.

Which Denon... 3800 or A1?
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post #120 of 220 Old 07-02-2009, 07:04 AM
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My Wife gets more upset with the amount of time I spend "down there" but I am making it up to her with a Las Vegas trip in a couple weeks.

Hey, great idea! What kind of shoot out are you going to do while she's gone? ;-)
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