New Sony ES Player BDP-S1000ES - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Diamond Dog View Post

This applies more for people using analog inputs and are force to use the Sony's Bass Management

You can not set speaker trim forward. You can only cut.

For example, you can not boost the subwoofer output by +10db. You can only go from 0 to -12

I guess you could just reduce all the other speakers by -10db, but this seems pretty lame.

I decided to return this thing based on the downmixing of optical to 2 channel when multi analog is set as primary so that you receiver can not handle the lossy DD & DTS without switching the primary source each time in the menu, the lack of being able to read videos or audio on the USB, the inability to go forward to boost speaker levels on the bass management.

I am going to pay the extra $89 and get the Oppo 80 or maybe the 83.....no the 80...no the 83...no the 80

Read link number 420. The analog outs on the 1000ES are just sub par.
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post #452 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Sure.

It must be boosted by the processor.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

If memory serves, Oppo allows you to boost the SW level output in the player, but recommends against it. Oppo says the boost should be done later in the AVR or at the sub itself.

Don't most processors bypass all settings like speaker trim (that they typically would incorporate for lossy dts or dd through optical) when using Multi Channel Analog Inputs? B&K said my Reference 50 and I though most processors just did straight pass through when you used the DVD-A inputs (multi channel inputs)?

As far as turning the subwoofer up, wouldn't you have to continually manually turn it up for HD audio and turn it back down each time you listened to lossy DD & DTS through optical?
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post #453 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Read link number 420. The analog outs on the 1000ES are just sub par.

I don't know about "sub par." Par, probably.
And certainly not "useless," which was your conclusion before.
I'll go with "perfectly adequate," and, when I replace my receiver, I can switch the audio to HDMI.
Oh, yeah, and it's $200.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #454 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

I don't know about "sub par." Par, probably.
And certainly not "useless," which was your conclusion before.
I'll go with "perfectly adequate," and, when I replace my receiver, I can switch the audio to HDMI.
Oh, yeah, and it's $200.

Although the 1000ES does not use Burr-Brown or Wolfson DAC's, that we know of, as Sony is quite secretive with the internal processors they incorporate, I find the analog audio "perfectly adequate" as well.
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post #455 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Dog View Post

Don't most processors bypass all settings like speaker trim (that they typically would incorporate for lossy dts or dd through optical) when using Multi Channel Analog Inputs? B&K said my Reference 50 and I though most processors just did straight pass through when you used the DVD-A inputs (multi channel inputs)?

That's true of digital functions such as bass management and distance adjustments, which must be performed by the player prior to the digital-analog conversion. But, level trims can still be done by the receiver.

Quote:


As far as turning the subwoofer up, wouldn't you have to continually manually turn it up for HD audio and turn it back down each time you listened to lossy DD & DTS through optical?

Many receivers have a setting to boost the analog SW input that does not affect digital. Even those that lack a specific analog SW boost allow for separate analog and digital level trims. So, you can turn up the sub to provide the needed boost for analog and then attenuate the SW level for digital sources in the receiver.

With most processors, it's possible to calibrate for both digital and analog.
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post #456 of 1194 Old 06-11-2010, 09:46 PM
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can someone please upload a pic of whatthe player looks like with the lights on? i remember i wanted this player back when it was $700, but its now $200! i think i might pick one up
also, the build quality is pretty solid, right?
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post #457 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuneralDancer View Post

can someone please upload a pic of whatthe player looks like with the lights on? i remember i wanted this player back when it was $700, but its now $200! i think i might pick one up
also, the build quality is pretty solid, right?

Sorry, do not have a picture, but the unit is beautiful and a great playback unit. Only sorry I paid, on average $349, for the 2 Sonys I bought!
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post #458 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FuneralDancer View Post

can someone please upload a pic of whatthe player looks like with the lights on? i remember i wanted this player back when it was $700, but its now $200! i think i might pick one up
also, the build quality is pretty solid, right?

Build quality seems quite good and picture performance is excellent. I'm liking it better than my Pioneer Elite 23 in terms of picture quality but lags somewhat in comparison to analog audio. If you use HDMI, there is little difference in audio. For $200.00 you can't go wrong, this is an excellent Blu ray player with a 5 year warranty.
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post #459 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDpalooza View Post

Although the 1000ES does not use Burr-Brown or Wolfson DAC's, that we know of, as Sony is quite secretive with the internal processors they incorporate, I find the analog audio "perfectly adequate" as well.

HDpalooza,

gbaby's point of reference is the Sony BDP-S5000ES. So compared to the BDP-S5000ES the analog stage of the S1000ES may be useless to him. However, as you and others have stated the analog of the S1000ES is probably more than acceptable for most. It's all about point of reference. Also, while Burr-Brown, Wolfsons, etc. DACs are good starting points they don't guarantee you sweet music.


Respectfully,
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post #460 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

HDpalooza,

gbaby's point of reference is the Sony BDP-S5000ES. So compared to the BDP-S5000ES the analog stage of the S1000ES may be useless to him. However, as you and others have stated the analog of the S1000ES is probably more than acceptable for most. It's all about point of reference. Also, while Burr-Brown, Wolfsons, etc. DACs are good starting points they don't guarantee you sweet music.


Respectfully,
Willie

Agreed, Willie
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post #461 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDpalooza View Post

Build quality seems quite good and picture performance is excellent. I'm liking it better than my Pioneer Elite 23 in terms of picture quality but lags somewhat in comparison to analog audio. If you use HDMI, there is little difference in audio. For $200.00 you can't go wrong, this is an excellent Blu ray player with a 5 year warranty.

spanx for the reply
yup, i remember being impressed with the build quality. i remember seeing this at sony style and i loved it! its prolly better build compared to Sony's other black players like the BDP-N460, S560?
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post #462 of 1194 Old 06-12-2010, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Sorry, do not have a picture, but the unit is beautiful and a great playback unit. Only sorry I paid, on average $349, for the 2 Sonys I bought!

think ya can take one soon?
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post #463 of 1194 Old 06-13-2010, 04:58 AM
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Forgot to mention, the one thing I like about this Sony versus the other New Sonys - THEY LEFT THE EJECT BUTTON ON THE REMOTE! Geez Sony, how much money do you save leaving off the Eject button anyways!? I don't always want want to get up and walk over to the Unit to push the Eject Button!
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post #464 of 1194 Old 06-14-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Forgot to mention, the one thing I like about this Sony versus the other New Sonys - THEY LEFT THE EJECT BUTTON ON THE REMOTE! Geez Sony, how much money do you save leaving off the Eject button anyways!? I don't always want want to get up and walk over to the Unit to push the Eject Button!

Just out of curiosity, what do you normally do after you eject using the remote?
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post #465 of 1194 Old 06-14-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

Just out of curiosity, what do you normally do after you eject using the remote?

I can see where you're headed w/this question, but for some folks, it's a much easier task to reach down to change a CD or DVD or Blu-Ray without having to search around for the tiny eject button first. I know this to be true because this was a big complaint from my older father, and he was thrilled when I showed him he could eject the disc from the remote. Made the operation 100% easier for him.
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post #466 of 1194 Old 06-14-2010, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

I guess people are just scared to look inside

I will be opening mine up when it gets here.

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Originally Posted by HDpalooza View Post

I actually thought about it, but I didn't want to pop any screws loose prior to my 60 day return window.

Well I got my player but damn if it is not tricky as hell to get open. I still have not figured it out. I think I may have to take they whole back off first because I tried unscrewing all the screws to slide the top off like every other disc player I have ever owned but it is like the top is connected to the plastic front. I am gonna give it another shot but would be nice if someone else out there would help and see if they might be able to figure it out.

My first impression is that it feels heftier then I was expecting and I was able to peek inside and there is a lot more going on than what I thought there would be. All the forum posters seemed to be dogging on this player big time. They were saying "oh it is just a re-bagged regular Sony at 3 times the price" but it definitely seems that is not that case. I am dying to see inside and take some high resolution pics. The DVD quality is very nice. I have not seen the S5000ES but just on a quick comparison, the picture is at least as good if not better than my Pioneer Elite BDP 23FD.

More to come. . .
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post #467 of 1194 Old 06-14-2010, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

Well I got my player but damn if it is not tricky as hell to get open. I still have not figured it out. I think I may have to take they whole back off first because I tried unscrewing all the screws to slide the top off like every other disc player I have ever owned but it is like the top is connected to the plastic front. I am gonna give it another shot but would be nice if someone else out there would help and see if they might be able to figure it out.

My first impression is that it feels heftier then I was expecting and I was able to peek inside and there is a lot more going on than what I thought there would be. All the forum posters seemed to be dogging on this player big time. They were saying "oh it is just a re-bagged regular Sony at 3 times the price" but it definitely seems that is not that case. I am dying to see inside and take some high resolution pics. The DVD quality is very nice. I have not seen the S5000ES but just on a quick comparison, the picture is at least as good if not better than my Pioneer Elite BDP 23FD.

More to come. . .

Hi Tommy, I think it's a pretty nice player. I will probably be picking one up within the next month or so. If you do get a chance to peek inside, see if you can determine if there is a Marvel chip in there for vid processing. Seems to be a discrepancy as to whether it does have Marvel or not. Thanks.

Mike T

My BDP-05FD, still going strong and still my favorite player!

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post #468 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

Well I got my player but damn if it is not tricky as hell to get open. I still have not figured it out. I think I may have to take they whole back off first because I tried unscrewing all the screws to slide the top off like every other disc player I have ever owned but it is like the top is connected to the plastic front. I am gonna give it another shot but would be nice if someone else out there would help and see if they might be able to figure it out.

My first impression is that it feels heftier then I was expecting and I was able to peek inside and there is a lot more going on than what I thought there would be. All the forum posters seemed to be dogging on this player big time. They were saying "oh it is just a re-bagged regular Sony at 3 times the price" but it definitely seems that is not that case. I am dying to see inside and take some high resolution pics. The DVD quality is very nice. I have not seen the S5000ES but just on a quick comparison, the picture is at least as good if not better than my Pioneer Elite BDP 23FD.

More to come. . .

Yup, not just your 'ole standard four screws on the side and two in back! I have to agree, I think there is more going on under the hood than a rebadged big box Sony as well. I have done quite a bit of comparing the 1000ES to my Pio 23FD and IMHO the Sony is superior in picture sharpness and shadow detail.
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post #469 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 06:22 AM
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LSI CXD9957GF

and what's with tearing apart your new toy? Don't you guys use google?
Here's two (three after edit) links. Took me two minutes and no scratches/broken plastic on my baby

http://www.fullhd.gr/2008-03-14-21-3...-bdp-s760.html

http://www.htforum.com/vb/showthread...NY-S-760/page2

http://hdtvpolska.com/index.php?showtopic=18853

P.S. No comments about this being a "foreign" model or in a language other than english (use google translate)
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post #470 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDpalooza View Post

I have done quite a bit of comparing the 1000ES to my Pio 23FD and IMHO the Sony is superior in picture sharpness and shadow detail.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17201122
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post #471 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 720p View Post

LSI CXD9957GF

and what's with tearing apart your new toy? Don't you guys use google?
Here's two (three after edit) links. Took me two minutes and no scratches/broken plastic on my baby

Are you really that clumsy you cannot unscrew a few screws and carefully remove the shroud from the top of a AV component? I have never understood this fear that people have that they are going to somehow break their equipment or void their warranty like the manufacturer has some magical power to tell it has been opened.

I have been opening up my electronics for over a decade and even doing repairs and upgrades on some of my vintage gear and building computers so I am not scared on a little ol DVD player. I just like to see how things work on the inside.
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post #472 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

LSI CXD9957GF

and what's with tearing apart your new toy? Don't you guys use google?
Here's two (three after edit) links. Took me two minutes and no scratches/broken plastic on my baby

http://www.fullhd.gr/2008-03-14-21-3...-bdp-s760.html

http://www.htforum.com/vb/showthread...NY-S-760/page2

http://hdtvpolska.com/index.php?showtopic=18853

P.S. No comments about this being a "foreign" model or in a language other than english (use google translate)

These links are all for the BPD S760. Do you know for a fact that they are the exact same model?
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post #473 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 07:37 AM
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Those are some nice screen shots. Very close IMO. I would probably need some larger ones to really tell any differences. Do you have the original shots before to resized them?
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post #474 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

I can see where you're headed w/this question, but for some folks, it's a much easier task to reach down to change a CD or DVD or Blu-Ray without having to search around for the tiny eject button first. I know this to be true because this was a big complaint from my older father, and he was thrilled when I showed him he could eject the disc from the remote. Made the operation 100% easier for him.

I'm 65 - it's easier to use the Eject Button on the Remote than trying to find it on the Player. Also the patience factor - ejecting from the remote - by the time I get up to the player, the tray is already out. During this time, I'm also probably getting the next BD out to play (or getting the case ready to put the played BD back) and switching the discs is easier than fumbling with discs and trying to find that up in the far right corner Eject button on the player.
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post #475 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:

Charles,

Thanks for the link. I reread some of your postings and they were very informative. I received my BDP-S1000ES last week, but I haven't had time to open it as the family and I are on vacation. I've read a few other postings about the picture being sharper, having more contrast or detail than the Pioneer 23FD. Those type of comments bring a question to mind. What is the player doing to my pristine signal. I can provide these characteristics on my own if I want to. Sharpness, contrast and details are only adjustments. All I need the player to do is send a quality signal without screwing up and I'll take it from there.

I actually read a post where a forum member preferred the Pioneer 320 over his Sony S5000ES, which I thought was interesting. He stated that he found the Sony S5000Es produced a soft picture, where as the Pioneer 320 had more detail and was sharp. So he sold the Sony and bought a Pioneer BDP-23FD. I think sometimes people get caught up in the new toy. I normally watch a few movies and then do an evaluation a week or so later so that new toy effect wears off. I honestly don't expect to find material differences between the Sony and my 23FD and it will all come down to preference.


Willie

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post #476 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

HDpalooza,

gbaby's point of reference is the Sony BDP-S5000ES. So compared to the BDP-S5000ES the analog stage of the S1000ES may be useless to him. ...


Respectfully,
Willie

You are absolutely correct. The rest of my equipment are: Velodyn HGS-18 sub which is -3db@ 15Hz, Infinity Composition Prelude speakers, Krell KAV-500amp, an Aleph J 2 channel amp. So, as you can see, my system is quite capable of being highly resolving. When playing the S1000ES using the analog outs, the sound has absolutely no weight and it cannot hit the frequency extremes with any authority at all. With the S5000ES, its the exact opposite and some. Its like a window to the source, and it gets you into the recording, itself. I never knew my sub was capable of hitting those low frequencies with such authority and clarity. Anyone thinking the S1000ES is adequate does not know what they are missing unfortunately. I go on record as saying the S1000ES is a toy if being used for sound, with the sonic characteristic of a $300.00 Magnavox receiver.
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post #477 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

Those are some nice screen shots. Very close IMO. I would probably need some larger ones to really tell any differences. Do you have the original shots before to resized them?

The funny thing is the differences appear larger when I look at both images at the same time. If I view each in their own tab they appear much closer. To me it appears the Sony has a slightly higher inter-scene contrast level at their respective settings. You can see this by looking at his ear or watch. These were taken with my projector's iris completely closed and my camera captures them much darker and saturated then they appear in person.

I verified both player's black and white level settings before taking them and because of the time it took to flip the disc I couldn't see any differences based on memory. Only once could I picture any difference without doing an instant A/B and that was with the original PS3 and Pioneer. The Pioneer simply felt more detailed. Why I couldn't explain until I saw the captured images and noticed its inter-scene contrast was boosted over the PS3's. I saw the same effect when I had two projectors going and had two active outputs with the AV receiver. I could instantly flip back and forth and again the projector with higher contrast appeared to have a little more detail.

Based on the source boosting the contrast level could add an harshness to the image which was easily spotted with skin tones. I remember Wanted was one such movie.

I might have the raw images but overall if it's too large you can't see the forest for the trees. Plus with different contrast levels the camera captures the images differently so it's hard to define subtle differences (or their cause).
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post #478 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Charles,

Thanks for the link. I reread some of your postings and they were very informative. I received my BDP-S1000ES last week, but I haven't had time to open it as the family and I are on vacation. I've read a few other postings about the picture being sharper, having more contrast or detail than the Pioneer 23FD. Those type of comments bring a question to mind. What is the player doing to my pristine signal. I can provide these characteristics on my own if I want to. Sharpness, contrast and details are only adjustments. All I need the player to do is send a quality signal without screwing up and I'll take it from there.

I actually read a post where a forum member preferred the Pioneer 320 over his Sony S5000ES, which I thought was interesting. He stated that he found the Sony S5000Es produced a soft picture, where as the Pioneer 320 had more detail and was sharp. So he sold the Sony and bought a Pioneer BDP-23FD. I think sometimes people get caught up in the new toy. I normally watch a few movies and then do an evaluation a week or so later so that new toy effect wears off. I honestly don't expect to find material differences between the Sony and my 23FD and it will all come down to preference.


Willie

Well I am definitely seeing differences in picture between the Sony and my 23FD. Trust me I am much more of a Pioneer fan and Sony hater. I have to admit though I am really liking what I am seeing. Outputting 1080p24 to my Kuro plasma, the motion is the smoothest I have seen from any HD disc player (dating back to my XA2 HD DVD player). Even though people say that ever player outputting BD at 1080p24 should look identical, from my experience that is not true at all. The differences are much more subtle than DVD but every player has its own unique characteristics.

On DVD where I really wanted to do the comparison, I am leaning toward the Sony as well. They are very close but the Sony just seems to have a step up in PQ when it comes to scaling DVD to 1080p and processing the video.
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post #479 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

The funny thing is the differences appear larger when I look at both images at the same time. If I view each in their own tab they appear much closer. To me it appears the Sony has a slightly higher inter-scene contrast level at their respective settings. You can see this by looking at his ear or watch. These were taken with my projector's iris completely closed and my camera captures them much darker and saturated then they appear in person.

I verified both player's black and white level settings before taking them and because of the time it took to flip the disc I couldn't see any differences based on memory. Only once could I picture any difference without doing an instant A/B and that was with the original PS3 and Pioneer. The Pioneer simply felt more detailed. Why I couldn't explain until I saw the captured images and noticed its inter-scene contrast was boosted over the PS3's. I saw the same effect when I had two projectors going and had two active outputs with the AV receiver. I could instantly flip back and forth and again the projector with higher contrast appeared to have a little more detail.

Based on the source boosting the contrast level could add an harshness to the image which was easily spotted with skin tones. I remember Wanted was one such movie.

I might have the raw images but overall if it's too large you can't see the forest for the trees. Plus with different contrast levels the camera captures the images differently so it's hard to define subtle differences (or their cause).

Well I have 1080p screens for all my computers and I can resize them to fit, even if it is bigger than 1920x1080. Those in the thread are just so small it is hard to tell.

Also it appears you are comparing shots of BD. I have noticed some differences in motion and other aspects during my viewing. I think I am starting to prefer the Sony. What we need is some shots of DVD. That is where we will be able to really see which video processor is superior. There is much more involved is what the player does to an SD DVD than a BD.
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post #480 of 1194 Old 06-15-2010, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

What we need is some shots of DVD. That is where we will be able to really see which video processor is superior.

When you have both units available... why would you need captured images to determine which is superior? I'm presuming you'll be viewing live content most of the time. In most cases one's preferences far exceed (or define) which is superior. Such as the classic film versus video like.
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