Lexicon BD-30 BD Player [based on OPPO BDP-83] tech talk only - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 872 Old 07-27-2009, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Just spotted this on www.Highdefdigest.com.
General concensus is it's a re-badged Oppo with a $3500.00 price tag.
Anyone have any more info?

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post #2 of 872 Old 07-27-2009, 01:30 PM
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Maybe they will tweak the audio side, still can't see it being worth $3k more though.

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post #3 of 872 Old 07-27-2009, 03:37 PM
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Just because it has similar specs, don't think it is a rebadged Oppo. Most manufacturers get their parts from the same companies. Don't think Oppo makes their own boards, chasis, etc. Lexicon has done their own R&D and I'm sure this will be one heck of a product for their market. It's already less expensive than both the Denon and new Marantz and probably 1,500 more than Parasound's potential entry.

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post #4 of 872 Old 07-27-2009, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Just because it has similar specs, don't think it is a rebadged Oppo. Most manufacturers get their parts from the same companies. Don't think Oppo makes their own boards, chasis, etc. Lexicon has done their own R&D and I'm sure this will be one heck of a product for their market. It's already less expensive than both the Denon and new Marantz and probably 1,500 more than Parasound's potential entry.

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Probably not a direct rebadge...but similar. They might try to pull a Cary.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16890239

It happens in the industry a lot. Rebadges with small improvements (or in some cases, downgrades). We'll see once someone is able to pull off the cover. I think being lower than the Denon and Marantz is a given...another pair that share the wealth of design layouts. yeah yeah, they do their "own" research...yeah, with the same base parts to start with. One just puts on a better PS and "heatsink" casing.
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post #5 of 872 Old 07-27-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnaks View Post

Probably not a direct rebadge...but similar. They might try to pull a Cary.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16890239

It happens in the industry a lot. Rebadges with small improvements (or in some cases, downgrades). We'll see once someone is able to pull off the cover. I think being lower than the Denon and Marantz is a given...another pair that share the wealth of design layouts. yeah yeah, they do their "own" research...yeah, with the same base parts to start with. One just puts on a better PS and "heatsink" casing.

My BIL's Integra looks very similar to my 2 bedroom Sylvania BRPs
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post #6 of 872 Old 07-28-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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It looks like the same player and I wonder if lexicon changes anything.





Does anyone have a better picture of the lexicon?
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post #7 of 872 Old 07-28-2009, 08:19 PM
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On this thread they are larger and easier to view.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16886160
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post #8 of 872 Old 07-28-2009, 09:38 PM
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Very interesting player.
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post #9 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 03:57 AM
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Glad to see the high end is getting back into the game. They've been sorely missed.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #10 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 06:53 AM
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Yeap, Paul said @ CEDIA UK that Parasound will have a player by the end of the year.

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post #11 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

It looks like the same player and I wonder if lexicon changes anything....

The players are identical on the rear panel, and a similar layout on the front panel, so there's little to dispute that it's not a rebadged Oppo. I would hope for a 600% cost difference there would be more than just a few internal mods! We already concede that a BluRay player is a BluRay player, with little difference between them in terms of BD playback, so obviously they will concentrate on the audio side, and probably more so on the analog outputs.
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post #12 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

The players are identical on the rear panel, and a similar layout on the front panel, so there's little to dispute that it's not a rebadged Oppo. I would hope for a 600% cost difference there would be more than just a few internal mods! We already concede that a BluRay player is a BluRay player, with little difference between them in terms of BD playback, so obviously they will concentrate on the audio side, and probably more so on the analog outputs.

Let's not forget that wheter there are significant differences in features or even some performance increases, Lexicon has a demographic of folks who could care less about researching a cheaper player that will accomplish the same goals. Some simply like Lexicon's reputation for excellence or simply that they represent one of the 'best'. There will be buyers nad likely they'll be happy.

Places like AVS, where we dissect the nuance, are places the general public is either not aware of or could care less about. So, Lexicon benefits by filling folks's needs. You don't have to research the best for the buck or research OEMs, just buy Lexicon and you are guaranteed a certain level of sophistication and performance.

I've leased a 911 back in '99 and kept it for 4 years. Loved it. Would a souped up Mustang, Corvette, etc get me to 60 MPH as fast or faster or give me most of what a Porsche does for a lot less?? Sure. But I wanted a Porsche and was very happy.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 08:52 AM
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I would imagine a lot of Lexicon gear gets sold through HT designer/installer shops where the customers are paying for a lot of custom installation and service. I expect that is a factor in this unit's pricing.

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post #14 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

...I've leased a 911 back in '99....

So, you're the one that made your home town falter!!! I didn't post that the Lexicon wouldn't surpass the performance of the Oppo...I would hope that it would for the price difference. We'll see after some specs are published. And yes, people buying Lexicon are likely to continue, even if it were identical to the Oppo, perhaps to allow all their equipment to have matching faceplates!
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post #15 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Let's not forget that wheter there are significant differences in features or even some performance increases, Lexicon has a demographic of folks who could care less about researching a cheaper player that will accomplish the same goals. Some simply like Lexicon's reputation for excellence or simply that they represent one of the 'best'. There will be buyers nad likely they'll be happy.

Places like AVS, where we dissect the nuance, are places the general public is either not aware of or could care less about. So, Lexicon benefits by filling folks's needs. You don't have to research the best for the buck or research OEMs, just buy Lexicon and you are guaranteed a certain level of sophistication and performance.

I've leased a 911 back in '99 and kept it for 4 years. Loved it. Would a souped up Mustang, Corvette, etc get me to 60 MPH as fast or faster or give me most of what a Porsche does for a lot less?? Sure. But I wanted a Porsche and was very happy.

What if anything do you think Lexicon could possibly bring to the table that would make it better than the Denon A1, Pioneer 09 or Marantz 9004? I totally get and understand that certain people will buy it because it's a Lexicon. I'm a huge Lexicon fan, I have had the MC-12B since January 2004 but never have their DVD players interested me. I think it's wonderful if the price holds true that it comes in less than the Denon and Marantz which would make it a candidate for more people perhaps. The biggest thing I'm curious of with this piece is it's SACD capabilities. Does it follow Oppo and give full spec DSD via HDMI or cripple SACD via HDMI like Denon did. Actually I would love to know what the Marantz is doing with SACD for that matter.

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post #16 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 06:51 PM
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I just found the answer to my Marantz question. This should come as no surprise to anyone but the UD9004 manual is now on-line on the Marantz site and it is practically identical to the Denon manual SACD is handled identically to the Denon A1, via HDMI it is down rezed to 44.1/16.

So $1500 buys you copper construction, Marantz HDAM-SA2&HDAM, BD-Live out of the box, an aluminum top for your remote and a different enclosure.

The only thing it doesn't have that the A1 has as far as I can tell is the obvious Denon link.

If the Lex can indeed stream native DSD via HDMI then Denon and Marantz best put in place a strategy to compete as there would be 2 cheaper players on the market offering a feature neither of the 2 most expensive players on the market can do. Maybe there is a more expensive player, didn't Goldmund put out a player for like $17,000?

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post #17 of 872 Old 07-29-2009, 07:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Let's not forget that wheter there are significant differences in features or even some performance increases, Lexicon has a demographic of folks who could care less about researching a cheaper player that will accomplish the same goals. Some simply like Lexicon's reputation for excellence or simply that they represent one of the 'best'. There will be buyers nad likely they'll be happy.

I agree that a lot of people assume based on name and at the same time as these players look identical these owners would not be caught dead with a oppo BD player in their racks.

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didn't Goldmund put out a player for like $17,000?

I know goldmund takes $150 CD players and changes the chassis then charges $6000.
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post #18 of 872 Old 08-04-2009, 02:39 PM
 
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Does anyone have any new information about the lexicon player?
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post #19 of 872 Old 08-11-2009, 05:49 PM
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Audioholics posted a -first look- of the Lexicon BD-30 today.

Their first impression: "Mildly Interesting".

A table lists the supported video formats and the supported audio formats.

www.audioholics.com
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post #20 of 872 Old 08-13-2009, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Just spotted this on www.Highdefdigest.com.
General concensus is it's a re-badged Oppo with a $3500.00 price tag.
Anyone have any more info?

Cannot believe this,why Lexicon will do something very ungraceful like this.
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post #21 of 872 Old 08-13-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

Audioholics posted a -first look- of the Lexicon BD-30 today.

Their first impression: "Mildly Interesting".

A table lists the supported video formats and the supported audio formats.

www.audioholics.com

Mildly Interesting,so must be something wrong with this player.
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post #22 of 872 Old 08-13-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butsu View Post

...why Lexicon will do something very ungraceful like this.

What's wrong with taking an soon to be established player, doing some mods to it to earn "esoteric" praise, and making a hefty profit on the venture???
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post #23 of 872 Old 08-14-2009, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butsu View Post

Cannot believe this,why Lexicon will do something very ungraceful like this.

Lexicon did this with their DVD players as well, they don't have the ability to design a player from scatch.

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What's wrong with taking an soon to be established player, doing some mods to it to earn "esoteric" praise, and making a hefty profit on the venture???

What mods?
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post #24 of 872 Old 08-14-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

Lexicon did this with their DVD players as well, they don't have the ability to design a player from scatch.

What mods?

Exactly. Those DVD players you refer to had, IIRC, minimal mods on one and just a different faceplate on the other but where both priced significantly higher than the players they were essentially clones of. While they're legally free to charge what they want, I personally think it's disgraceful to try to make that much profit (and many of these companies are wondering why they're struggling to survive and sales are down...). If they end up making relatively significant mods to the electronics then fine, but it's really tough to imagine $3000 worth of mods to the Oppo even factoring in hefty profit. Anyone who knowingly buys this (knowing that it's an Oppo clone, that is), has got to have pretty deep pockets to pay $3000 extra just to get a matching faceplate or the Lexicon name instead of Oppo.
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post #25 of 872 Old 08-14-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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So this player is a OPPO with THX
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post #26 of 872 Old 08-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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So this player is a OPPO with THX

I think it would be more accurate to say that it's a THX certified Oppo - meaning that the Oppo would most likely pass certification if they put it through the process and it's very likely that no changes are needed to the existing hardware. Paying to put the player through the THX certification process is certainly worth something, just not anywhere near the $3000 premium (well, $2912 since the serial port is standard on the Lexicon and an $89 option on the Oppo).
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post #27 of 872 Old 08-14-2009, 08:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I think it would be more accurate to say that it's a THX certified Oppo - meaning that the Oppo would most likely pass certification if they put it through the process and it's very likely that no changes are needed to the existing hardware. Paying to put the player through the THX certification process is certainly worth something, just not anywhere near the $3000 premium (well, $2912 since the serial port is standard on the Lexicon and an $89 option on the Oppo).

I understand what you are saying I would not touch one what so ever, I hope someone will buy the LEXICON and pop the hood and compare them both together. Also have a look on the front of both player and all the button are almost in the same spot.
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post #28 of 872 Old 08-15-2009, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

... I personally think it's disgraceful to try to make that much profit.


All Lexicon is doing is offering a product that they will stand behind. Their price point is likely well researched. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. If there is any disgrace anywhere, it is others judging others by what they buy. There are folks out there that love anything Lexicon (or Theta, Wilson, SIM2, etc) and will buy those products. Lexicon has been in business a lot longer than Oppo and the likes. Rebadged or not and modified or not, it misses the point. Perhaps there are Lexicon enthusiasts they feel comfortable dealing with them and like the matching face plates, too. Whatever the reason, they simply like Lexicon's products whether they know some are made elsewhere or not. Imagine that?

Did you know luxury brand Hermes charges $10K to $20K for their high end leather Birkin bags? Yes, a leather purse. Did you know it is at least a 2-4 year wait to get one and they do not even sell them in any of their retail stores? You go to the stores to get on a list if you want one. And they do not allow any internet sales of these bags. The profits are far larger on those purses and they sell many more than Lexicon will sell BD players and processors. But their is obviously a market for them. Lexicon has their market, too.

Sometimes you buy something because you value it and price comes second. And that is the buyer's right whether you feel they have too much money or not.

... and, 'no', I would never buy a Lexicon BD player but I do respect those that will. It's their dough!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #29 of 872 Old 08-15-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

All Lexicon is doing is offering a product that they will stand behind.

Well, I'd stand behind it too if I sold an Oppo BDP-83 for $3500 . At the same time, Oppo seems to be doing a great job of standing behind the product at the $499 price point...
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Their price point is likely well researched. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. If there is any disgrace anywhere, it is others judging others by what they buy. There are folks out there that love anything Lexicon (or Theta, Wilson, SIM2, etc) and will buy those products. Lexicon has been in business a lot longer than Oppo and the likes. Rebadged or not and modified or not, it misses the point. Perhaps there are Lexicon enthusiasts they feel comfortable dealing with them and like the matching face plates, too. Whatever the reason, they simply like Lexicon's products whether they know some are made elsewhere or not. Imagine that?

I'm sure Lexicon will sell some number of these at the $3500 price point. The funny thing is that some of the buyers will insist that it's a better player than the Oppo - after all they paid more... People are certainly free to do what they want on both sides of the process, but unless Lexicon actually adds some value INSIDE the player, they're ripping off (mostly) unsuspecting buyers IMO (my opinion - I didn't say everyone needs to agree with me).

Matching faceplates are nice, but to pay nearly a $3000 premium for that is just a bit extreme, isn't it?
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Did you know luxury brand Hermes charges $10K to $20K for their high end leather Birkin bags? Yes, a leather purse. Did you know it is at least a 2-4 year wait to get one and they do not even sell them in any of their retail stores? You go to the stores to get on a list if you want one. And they do not allow any internet sales of these bags. The profits are far larger on those purses and they sell many more than Lexicon will sell BD players and processors. But their is obviously a market for them. Lexicon has their market, too.

And Rolex charges many thousands of dollars for their watches that keep no better time than a $30 Timex. I own a Rolex, so I do understand paying more for something special, but the guts of the watch aren't IDENTICAL to that $30 Timex. Same thing with the Hermes stuff - I suspect it's not identical to some other bag you can buy for a lot less money (though I'm sure most people could get by just fine with something a bit less expensive ). And yes, in both cases you can buy fakes for a lot less that are sometimes pretty close to the real thing.

These types of items tend to be a one time purchase - something you'll be able to cherish for the rest of your life. A Bluray player is something you're probably going to replace in a few years or so given how fast the technology is changing. That Hermes bag might need periodic leather treatment and the Rolex will need to go for service once in a while, but if well cared for either item will last a lifetime AND hold it's value (I could resell my watch for about what I paid for it).
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Sometimes you buy something because you value it and price comes second. And that is the buyer's right whether you feel they have too much money or not.

... and, 'no', I would never buy a Lexicon BD player but I do respect those that will. It's their dough!

Yes, it's their dough, and it's not that I have no respect for those who choose to spend it that way. It strikes me as foolish and a waste of money, but if they want to spend it, it's ultimately their choice. My disgust is directed mostly at Lexicon, not at the buyers (many of which don't frequent these forums and will have no idea that the Oppo exists or that their $3500 player is a clone of a $499 player).
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post #30 of 872 Old 08-16-2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Let's not forget that wheter there are significant differences in features or even some performance increases, Lexicon has a demographic of folks who could care less about researching a cheaper player that will accomplish the same goals. Some simply like Lexicon's reputation for excellence or simply that they represent one of the 'best'. There will be buyers nad likely they'll be happy.

Places like AVS, where we dissect the nuance, are places the general public is either not aware of or could care less about. So, Lexicon benefits by filling folks's needs. You don't have to research the best for the buck or research OEMs, just buy Lexicon and you are guaranteed a certain level of sophistication and performance.

I've leased a 911 back in '99 and kept it for 4 years. Loved it. Would a souped up Mustang, Corvette, etc get me to 60 MPH as fast or faster or give me most of what a Porsche does for a lot less?? Sure. But I wanted a Porsche and was very happy.

thebland,

I totally agree. Not only are 99% of us on this forum unable to afford a $3,500 blu-ray player, but we're smart enough to know by talking to each other on here that you don't need to spend such a significant amount of money on a device when there are similar (or even better) alternatives for a fraction of the price.

I personally could not spend that amount of money on an item that I know will be outdated in a few years. Even if I did have $3,500 on a blu-ray player to spend, I couldn't in good conscience spend that kind of money when I could buy a similar quality player for $500 and give the rest to charity.

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