The best 7.1 analog output- blu-ray player? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 153 Old 07-29-2009, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently own the Panasonic bd-55 and I'm very happy with its performance and have been using the player's internal decoding to get the latest surround formats. I am using the analog inputs of my Arcam receiver and I'm not about to change it any time soon for one of the new receivers that decode all the latest. I find the Panasonic internal decoder lacking a little bit and to be honest I don't hear the difference in sound using the panasonic's decoder for Hd dts when compared to the Arcam's down-convertion to regular DTS of the same blu ray discs. I usually have to dial the volume on the receiver way too high, almost to the max (96) which in the case of the Arcam is 100 in order to match the arcam's decoding's levels at around 86. Besides the volume difference I can sometimes tell the difference in favor of the Panasonic's decorder on Hd surround but I feel the sound quality difference is insignificant
and I feel it shouldn't be as subtle as it is.

Is there a blu-ray player that betters the competition in high quality audio playback through its analog outputs? or maybe the decoder in the panasonic is too limited?

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post #2 of 153 Old 07-29-2009, 06:05 PM
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It's not the decoder, which is essentially just an unzipping job. It's the post decoding processing and the DACs that produce the differences you hear. The Pioneers get very good reviews for analog output. The new Oppo does, too.

There's one other factor. The DTS core tracks on BD are encoded at very high bitrates and they rival lossless (some say they equal it). So, you may not find a player whose lossless output sounds better than the core tracks on your Arcam.
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post #3 of 153 Old 07-29-2009, 06:16 PM
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the denon a1, 3800, oppo, higher end pioneer, and sony 5000 should all offe close to reference performance via analog
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post #4 of 153 Old 07-29-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

the denon a1, 3800, oppo, higher end pioneer, and sony 5000 should all offe close to reference performance via analog

Put perfectly.

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post #5 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for you response, I was actually thinking about getting the OPPO and hopefully hearing the difference.

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post #6 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 01:19 PM
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I can relate. I have the Arcam AVR350. I used to own the Panny 55K and didn't think much of its analog performance at all. I own the Oppo 83 and use M.CH analog for BR with great results. Big improvement over 55k. If analog audio is your primary concern the Pioneer 51fd has a very good analog output stage for BR and can be had very cheap nowadays. A lot of people think it is better than Oppo 83. I am currently comparing the 51 and 83. I'll have to do some more testing before I decide which I prefer. I'm having a small issue with the 51 into my 350 but it is probably just my set-up.
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post #7 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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So far my choices seem to be more between the Oppo and the Pioneer 51 price wise. I would love to hear what you have to say about your testing of the oppo and the Pioneer. I also have the Arcam AVR-350.

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post #8 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 03:34 PM
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Depending on your display, with analog audio out you will likely need the player to offer audio delay (lip sync). Especially if you like BR concerts. The Oppo does not yet offer this. (otherwise I'd try it out)
Paul
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post #9 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBonn View Post

Depending on your display, with analog audio out you will likely need the player to offer audio delay (lip sync). Especially if you like BR concerts. The Oppo does not yet offer this. (otherwise I'd try it out)
Paul

Well, it isn't advertised in the manual but I swear it works for me with analog outs. I am currently using it at 80ms with good results. I can see/hear a difference at 0ms and cranked all the way.

I wouldn't let this keep you from buying the player any longer!
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post #10 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachelor View Post

Well, it isn't advertised in the manual but I swear it works for me with analog outs. I am currently using it at 80ms with good results. I can see/hear a difference at 0ms and cranked all the way.

I wouldn't let this keep you from buying the player any longer!

I didn't know this...what is the maximum delay you can set it for? I need 120 to 140ms delay for my Panny 3000 with all the processing enabled.
I may order the Oppo then.
Thanks
Paul

FYI, this is the only reference to delay in the manual:

6. A/V Sync – To add a delay to the HDMI audio output. If you experience audio/video
synchronization problem, you may use this option to add a slight delay to the audio so it is
synchronized to the video.
• Use the UP/DOWN ARROW buttons to highlight the A/V Sync menu item. Press the
ENTER button.
• Press the LEFT/RIGHT ARROW buttons to adjust delay. The audio delay can be adjusted
in 10ms steps.
• Press the ENTER button to
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post #11 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 04:35 PM
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I want to say up to 200 something. I'll have to check but it won't be until later tonight. I run HDMI to my projector and analog outs to my processor.
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post #12 of 153 Old 07-30-2009, 05:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

Is there a blu-ray player that betters the competition in high quality audio playback through its analog outputs?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ayers/BDP-09FD

If you have the money I would look at the pioneer BDP-09FD.
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post #13 of 153 Old 07-31-2009, 03:37 AM
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suprised no ones mentioned the denon a1ud or the sony 5000es which have very decent 7.1 analog outputs.

Basically for decent analog output what is needed is decent dac implementation, analog stages and good quality power supplies. Its something most run of the mill players are typically very lacking.

Have a peep under the hood of the denon A1/3800/marantz 8002, pio 09/lx91 or sony 5000es and you'll see the discrete dac implementation, good quality dacs. decent analog stages using good quality discrete components and their quality power supplies using torroidals and R-cores and the like. Its no suprise these players excel with analog given the effort the makers have gone to in this regard.

something else to keep in mind with goign over analog is the facility of setup over analog the makers provide. again here you will find the denon/marantz, pio and sony options to be pretty decent here. The denon / marantz giving the most flexibility but will find both the sony and pio pretty decent this way as well.

Additionally also depends what you have in the way of the avr or av pre, as to the result you will get over analog. most of the run of the mill avrs though pretty decent over digital are infact pretty average over analog. hooking up even "the best" player there is over analog to one of these will be a a complete waste.

best over analog ? it would have to be the big daddy denon A1UD isnt it !

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post #14 of 153 Old 07-31-2009, 12:44 PM
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Marantz 9004 will be the best.
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post #15 of 153 Old 07-31-2009, 05:52 PM
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It better be the best considering how much it costs.

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post #16 of 153 Old 07-31-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Marantz 9004 will be the best.

is this puppy out yet?
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post #17 of 153 Old 08-01-2009, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

So far my choices seem to be more between the Oppo and the Pioneer 51 price wise. I would love to hear what you have to say about your testing of the oppo and the Pioneer. I also have the Arcam AVR-350.

I compared the two and felt that the Pioneer 51 sound better in analog multichannel and analog 2 channel. In two channel stereo on the 51(what you'd use for CDs) you'll want to go back and replay all your music.

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post #18 of 153 Old 08-01-2009, 03:06 AM
 
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Pioneer 09
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post #19 of 153 Old 08-01-2009, 11:39 AM
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I have a denon 3800 using 7.1 analogs and find it is one of best in audio quality (via analogs). TrueHD, DTS-MA, LPCM, are all superb in my opinion. I am feeding into an older denon receiver that does not have hdmi. Previously I also had a panny (the first model BD) and that was quite good *(the dacs) but lacked the newer formats so I upgraded.
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post #20 of 153 Old 08-01-2009, 02:01 PM
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How does the LG BD390 fair in the analog arena?
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post #21 of 153 Old 08-01-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar_984 View Post

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ayers/BDP-09FD

If you have the money I would look at the pioneer BDP-09FD.

$2,200 WOW! And I thought my Oppo BDP-83 was on the high side at $499.

I'm very happy with the 7.1 analog from the Oppo into my 8-ch bypass Lexicon MC-1 for BD/SACD/DVD-A playback. Oppo has very decent bass/speaker mgmt. And the MC-1's Logic7 still shines for DVD 2.0/5.1 audio over coax from the Oppo.

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post #22 of 153 Old 08-25-2009, 11:22 AM
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Did you ever switch from the Panasonic BD-55?
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post #23 of 153 Old 08-25-2009, 11:52 AM
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denon 2010/marantz 7004 have nice analogue sections as well
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post #24 of 153 Old 08-25-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBonn View Post

Depending on your display, with analog audio out you will likely need the player to offer audio delay (lip sync). Especially if you like BR concerts. The Oppo does not yet offer this. (otherwise I'd try it out)
Paul

The Oppo has an delay feature for the video output via HDMI. This is handy for those who connect video through HDMI and audio via MCH or digital.
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post #25 of 153 Old 08-26-2009, 03:28 AM
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I also have the panny 55 and think it has a good analogue section. On a scale of 1-10 I would give it a solid 7. As a comparison, although I don't own the new Denon or Pioneer Elite flagship models, according to the reviews on this forum I think we can rate those units around a 9 or 9.5 for analogue. Also, the Oppo is reported to have a good analogue section that we may rate 8 to 8.5 in comparison. Please note that these are just my observations based on some information provided by some very knowledgeable people who own these units on this forum so take with a grain of salt.
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post #26 of 153 Old 08-29-2009, 07:27 PM
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The best? A Modwright-modified Oppo. Thousands less than top-of-the-line Denon/Maranz. Even less than Pio Elite/Sony ES. Unsurpassed audio quality.

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post #27 of 153 Old 08-29-2009, 09:48 PM
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Gregor:

Have you compared them directly, or has anyone else?

Got links?

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post #28 of 153 Old 08-30-2009, 10:58 AM
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http://www.modwright.com/modifications/14

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post #29 of 153 Old 08-30-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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http://www.modwright.com/modifications/14

Quote:


Full Multi-Channel Mod with Master Clock upgrade = $1295 + shipping.


Upgrade of stock power supplies.


Installation of Master Clock with Bursen Clock!


Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.


Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub out.


Shielding and damping mods to chassis and stock supplies.

Any measurements to back up these claims? Why do people always assume that a MOD will be better?
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post #30 of 153 Old 08-31-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Marantz 9004 will be the best.

Certainly isn't going to distinguish itself as a digital transport so for 6 large it had better have the best analog output. Of course, it would be nice to actually hear the piece before just assuming - and making such pronouncements.

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