Denon DBP-1610 Owner's Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thought I would get a dedicated thread to the little brother of the 2010CI. I am going to try one out once they hit BB/Magnolia.

The 1610 shares the same chassis of the 2010, but lacks the 7.1 analogue ouputs, the ABT processing chip, RS232, and gold-plated outputs.
Attachment 149573

Attachment 149574

Key Stats:
  • BD Profile 2.0, BD-Live enabled via Ethernet
  • 12 bit video processing with SD digital video noise reduction
  • Multiple picture adjustments, including gamma correction
  • Precision stereo analog outputs featuring Burr-Brown D/A conversion
  • HDMI Source Direct function bypasses internal video processor

I will post load times and deinterlacing performance using the S&M Test disc once available.
LL
LL
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post #2 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 02:46 PM
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Very cool and I really appreciate all the units you test for us. Thank you.

Juan

My HT
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post #3 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 04:26 PM
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This will be a very good mate for the ABT endowed Denon AVRs, especially those with ABT2010, but also the 790/1910 with ABT 1030. I expect to see the street price settle around $300 in the next few months.

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post #4 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

This will be a very good mate for the ABT endowed Denon AVRs, especially those with ABT2010, but also the 790/1910 with ABT 1030. I expect to see the street price settle around $300 in the next few months.

talked to a buddy of mine who is a dealer. he's pretty frank about cost pricing and told me these are currently around 320 or so from denon depending on middlemen and what not. they are going to struggle to move them at that number. i got my 2010 for a little over 400, which is where it needs to be priced. this model's featureset will inevitable push it under 300 to compete - otherwise, why not get a pioneer 320, which has now dipped below 300 with 7.1 analogues and likely better upscaling.
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post #5 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

talked to a buddy of mine who is a dealer. he's pretty frank about cost pricing and told me these are currently around 320 or so from denon depending on middlemen and what not. they are going to struggle to move them at that number. i got my 2010 for a little over 400, which is where it needs to be priced. this model's featureset will inevitable push it under 300 to compete - otherwise, why not get a pioneer 320, which has now dipped below 300 with 7.1 analogues and likely better upscaling.

Ya, I'd say when they start to pile up in the warehouses, the prices dealers see will drop and, in turn, the prices the end consumers see will drop too. For now, prices are still elevated due to being a new model. Cheapest online price is $375... no way anyone will pay that when they could get a 2010ci for $25 more or a Pioneer 320 for $75 less.

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post #6 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

Ya, I'd say when they start to pile up in the warehouses, the prices dealers see will drop and, in turn, the prices the end consumers see will drop too. For now, prices are still elevated due to being a new model. Cheapest online price is $375... no way anyone will pay that when they could get a 2010ci for $25 more or a Pioneer 320 for $75 less.

try $100 less for the pioneer 320!!!
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post #7 of 90 Old 08-06-2009, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

try $100 less for the pioneer 320!!!

Ya! Something tells me the 1610's niche will end up being entry-level for OCD brand-matchers and custom-installers... maybe refurbs will hit $200 and give it a second wind.

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post #8 of 90 Old 08-08-2009, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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This deal is sure taking a while to get to best buy...anybody else get one?
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post #9 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Player is identical from facade as 2010. Analogue outputs on rear are not gold-plated and it obviously lacks 7.1 analogues. The device is lighter (by a lb according to the specs).

Interestingly, the player did not have quite the handshake issues the 2010 did with my kuro. That said, it was rather stubborn in playing the S&M test disc. Had to employ a rather atavistic moment and blow on the disc like an old Nintendo disc. It also seemed to help to turn off the CEC function.

GUI/Menus identical to 2010. FW update available immediately - very quick download and reasonably in uploading - same percentage read-out on device as the 1800/2500/2010.

Synthetic Test Resutls:

Test Pio 320/ Oppo /JVC /denon 1800 /denon 2500 /denon 2010/ denon 1610
2:02 pass/ pass*/ pass/ fail/ fail /pass/ pass
2:2:2:4 fail /pass /pass /fail /fail /fail/ fail
2:3:2:3 (PF-T) Pass /pass /pass /pass* / pass / pass*/ pass*
2:3:2:3 pass /pass /pass/ pass/ pass* /pass/ pass
2:3:3:2 marg /pass /pass /fail/ fail /fail / fail
3:2:3:2:2 fail pass pass fail fail fail /fail
5:5 pass/ pass /pass /marginal /marginal /marginal / marginal
6:4 marginal /pass/ pass/ fail/ fail /marginal/ fail
8:7:8:7 marginal pass pass maginal marginal marginal /marginal
24p - Pass pass pass pass pass pass pass
Time-adjusted fail pass fail marginal fail fail fail

Video deinterlacing:
Moderate performance; excelled with scrolling text, but did have very mild jaggies on ship test.
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post #11 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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With updated firmware, powered off eject time decreases from 17 seconds to 13 seconds (Same as 2010).

Dark Knight: to anti-piracy page
Denon 1610: 37
JVC: 17 seconds
Oppo: 16 seconds
Pio 320: 42 seconds
Pio 51: 45 seconds
Denon 1800: 42 seconds
Denon 2500: 48 seconds
Denon 2010: 36 seconds

Pirates of the Carribean 1: Medallion Coin / Disney Splash
Denon 1610: 41/57 seconds
JVC: 16 /27
Oppo: 21 / 31
Pio 320: 44 /1 min 13 seconds
Denon 1800: 44 /1 min 3 seconds
Denon 2500: 49 / 1 min 9 seconds
Denon 2010: 39 / 49
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post #12 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I have not seen any difference between the 2010 and 1610. for that matter, no difference from 2500 and 1800 either.

The 1610 has the same tweaking menus and 5 memory functions.
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post #13 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 06:43 PM
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winston have you compared the quality of the DVD upscaling yet? (compared to the 2010)
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post #14 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAVHTx View Post

winston have you compared the quality of the DVD upscaling yet? (compared to the 2010)

Yes, limited dvd, but I have to say that the 2010 is noticeably better. Both are perfectly adequate at deinterlacing to avoid moire and jaggies in most cases, but the 2010 adds more detail and provides a slightly more depth in its images. Colors are slighty better from the 2010 and there is better shadow detail.

Edges are sharper and more defined, but this is a minute difference. This sharpness can be a double-edged sword - take the dvd release of kill shot. It's a recent and reasonable transfer. The third scene (8m33s) shows Mickey Rourke talking to an old Indian woman through a screen door, which is damn near tortuous for most players with the tight interlaced source image of vertical and horizontal lines. The 1610 does not have any moire, but the 2010 does. The Denon 2500 and 1800 do not. For reference, the reon chip in my Onkyo HD-805 (Toshiba XA2 Clone) and Oppo BD83 both create moire in this scene. Most folks will call both players as some of the best at dvd upconversion, and in this scene their strength is their weakness. This is an example of how sometimes the aggressive "enhancement" in the best-rated players can backfire in real-world use.

That said, I prefer the image fr0m the 2010, but would limit is enhancement over the 1610 to a moderate increase - say 20%.

I really need more time to run through more tests, but try the kill shot test on your player at home - it's a perfect trap for the big boys.
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post #15 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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where the street price will land on these in a month or even weeks. In a competitive landscape where quality 7.1 analogues are below $300 (ie 320), lightning speed and quality upconversion are below $225 (JVC), and netflix and pandora streaming are available for $200, how a denon can justify a $500 MSRP player without a brand name chipset, mediocre speed, and only two channel out. It is a well-built, heavy player that looks awesome in a rack (not as masculine as a 2500/3800), but neither wins on performance nor wins on value.

The mid-range ($300 to $600) market segment is book-ended by the Pioneer 320 on one end and the Oppo 83 on the other. Players like the Denon 1610 struggle to stand out in regard to either performance or value, which is a dangerous proposition for the majority of us who are not brand-addicted. I know I have been probably a bit overly critical of higher branded players like the Onkyo 606 and 507 and the Harman Kardon BDP1, but I firmly believe in quality and value. This is probably why I have banged on about both the pioneer 320 and the JVC XV BP1. They put very high quality AV performance or lightning fast operation in the hands of normal folks in tough times.

The 1610 (and the 2010 for that matter) are a bit late to the party and too expensive. I would strongly recommend the 1610 were its street price just under $300 (and I suspect it will be come Halloween). The 2010 is one of the few direct competitors to the Oppo for pure BD/DVD performance. It has a better audio section, but worse video capabilities. It could be a real contender at $425-$450, but is comical at $600 or whatever they are going for.

With Denon DVD-2500BTCI's selling for under $300, I would be hard-pressed to recommend the 1610 for its current street price of $450.
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post #16 of 90 Old 08-10-2009, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Per the spec sheets, the 1610 has the same burr browns converting for its two channel outputs. I connected it to my 906 in pure mode and listened to a few cds - overall, I think most folks would be very happy with the 1610 as a cd player. I think i still give a very slight edge to the wolfsons of the pioneer 51 for most music, but the burr browns in the 1610/2010 are probably the closest and a very close second for music. And I know ymmv...describing audio is my least favorite - too damn subjective.
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post #17 of 90 Old 08-11-2009, 03:36 AM
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So in Source Direct mode when not using the upconversion, are the 1610 and 2010 identical in picture quality?
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post #18 of 90 Old 08-11-2009, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa View Post

So in Source Direct mode when not using the upconversion, are the 1610 and 2010 identical in picture quality?

Did not test that - I would assume the abt chip could still be used to process the image even at 480i. The menu is not locked out in the source direct mode.

1610 is going back to bestbuy today.
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post #19 of 90 Old 08-28-2009, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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thought prospective buyers with new denon receivers might be interested in this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17083681
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post #20 of 90 Old 09-08-2009, 12:36 PM
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I contemplated this as a bd player choice. Amazon had it for 374 and falling. I waiting to it hit sub 350 and maybe pull the trigger. I have a fairly new Denon reciever and am looking for really good two channel audio via the burr-browns to also play CDs. Amazon upped the price today back to MSRP of 499, which in my mind is insane for this player to be the price of the Oppo. They'll sell none.
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post #21 of 90 Old 10-21-2009, 04:18 PM
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Per Winston's recommendations I picked up a new in box Denon DBP-1610 on eBay for less than $300 shipped.

It will go nicely with the abt chip in my Denon1910 do the up conversion.

I will let you know how it looks when I receive it.
Thanks for all your help Winston !

DEFINITIVE TECHNOLOGY
DENON
PANASONIC
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post #22 of 90 Old 11-01-2009, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msarp View Post

Per Winston's recommendations I picked up a new in box Denon DBP-1610 on eBay for less than $300 shipped.

It will go nicely with the abt chip in my Denon1910 do the up conversion.

I will let you know how it looks when I receive it.
Thanks for all your help Winston !

Great price and I think you will be getting the performance of the 2010 the polish way and saving some serious dough!
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post #23 of 90 Old 11-01-2009, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I contemplated this as a bd player choice. Amazon had it for 374 and falling. I waiting to it hit sub 350 and maybe pull the trigger. I have a fairly new Denon reciever and am looking for really good two channel audio via the burr-browns to also play CDs. Amazon upped the price today back to MSRP of 499, which in my mind is insane for this player to be the price of the Oppo. They'll sell none.

This player makes a lot of sense around $299. Competitive enough to keep up with the Pioneer 320 and enough space from the oppo for folks looking to use sourcedirect to their matching denon receiver with an abt chip. The 2010 should be selling for $399. They would actually move these players at that price level.
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post #24 of 90 Old 11-26-2009, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #25 of 90 Old 11-27-2009, 04:28 AM
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How does the PQ of the 1610 compare to the 2500BTCI?
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post #26 of 90 Old 12-12-2009, 10:32 PM
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I got my DBP-1610 for free as a package deal with my AVR-3808CI... for some reason I have the latest firmware update. Yet I cant get BD-LIVE to work on any of my blu-ray movies.

It does connect and update without issues in under 25-30 min. I even dmz'ed it in my router. so any thoughts would be nice.

Thanks,
Xeveniah Darkwind

Toshiba Custom Series 51" HD Moniter
xeveniah@bellsouth.net
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post #27 of 90 Old 12-13-2009, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeveniah View Post

I got my DBP-1610 for free as a package deal with my AVR-3808CI... for some reason I have the latest firmware update. Yet I cant get BD-LIVE to work on any of my blu-ray movies.

It does connect and update without issues in under 25-30 min. I even dmz'ed it in my router. so any thoughts would be nice.

Thanks,
Xeveniah Darkwind

are you positive it can connect? are you using a wireless router with a bridge or is it hardlien connected via ethernet?
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post #28 of 90 Old 12-13-2009, 11:52 AM
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Winston,

Yes I am sure it can connect. Everythng is hardwired to the dsl router modem combo. I've even assigned it a static ip. and the reason I know it can connect... is A.> I upgrade its firmware / software sucessfully. and b.> ive run the connection diagnostic check and theres no issues. C.> both the IP and MAC adress are visible in the router.

my adsl 2/2+ router combo is: Westell VersaLink 327w and upnp is disabled.

I dont mean to sound like a smart arese... Im just irritated at denon. between this and my 3808ci this will probally be my 5th or 6th call to tech support. just understand Im rather irritated.

Thanks for your help... and anyone else who my contribute to helping me resolve my players issues,

Xeveniah Darkwind

Toshiba Custom Series 51" HD Moniter
xeveniah@bellsouth.net
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post #29 of 90 Old 12-13-2009, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeveniah View Post

Winston,

Yes I am sure it can connect. Everythng is hardwired to the dsl router modem combo. I've even assigned it a static ip. and the reason I know it can connect... is A.> I upgrade its firmware / software sucessfully. and b.> ive run the connection diagnostic check and theres no issues. C.> both the IP and MAC adress are visible in the router.

my adsl 2/2+ router combo is: Westell VersaLink 327w and upnp is disabled.

I dont mean to sound like a smart arese... Im just irritated at denon. between this and my 3808ci this will probally be my 5th or 6th call to tech support. just understand Im rather irritated.

Thanks for your help... and anyone else who my contribute to helping me resolve my players issues,

Xeveniah Darkwind

if it's connecting properly, i can't see why it will not access bd live features. hate to say call into denon, but call into denon. did you try initializing the firmware after downloading it?
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post #30 of 90 Old 12-13-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeveniah View Post

I got my DBP-1610 for free as a package deal with my AVR-3808CI... for some reason I have the latest firmware update. Yet I cant get BD-LIVE to work on any of my blu-ray movies.

It does connect and update without issues in under 25-30 min. I even dmz'ed it in my router. so any thoughts would be nice.

Thanks,
Xeveniah Darkwind

Are you sure that your bluray movies have BD-live, just asking since very many bds dont have this...
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