Official PS3-Slim Master Thread-Post all comments and questions here! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rfisher View Post

When you are in bitstream mode do you still get menu sounds? You know the little clicks and beeps on some BD disk menu's. Sounds stupid but I sort of like the audio cue when I select something.

Yes you still do.
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post #92 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by skip61 View Post

Yes you still do.

Unless the ps3 switches to LPCM just so it can play the short sounds (unlikely-it'd take a second or two) I don't see how it could play the menu sounds if it's bitstreaming. Have you tested yourself?
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post #93 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfisher View Post

When you are in bitstream mode do you still get menu sounds? You know the little clicks and beeps on some BD disk menu's. Sounds stupid but I sort of like the audio cue when I select something.

It's possible that the Slim can do secondary audio (menu sounds, PIP commentary, etc.) by switching to the lossy "core" audio of the primary track. That's how other players do it. That would be a new Slim-specific implementation of secondary audio. The primary and secondary audio tracks are decoded to LPCM, mixed together, and then re-encoded as Dolby Digital for bitstream output. The PS3 certainly has enough power to do this. But the resulting audio would not be TrueHD or DTS-MA.

In-player decoding is necessary in order to use the lossless primary audio track with secondary audio, and that means LPCM output, not bitstream. This has always been something the PS3 has done particularly well.

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post #94 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 11:37 AM
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Why would it use the core if it's gonna mix though? Wouldn't it just use the lossless track plus the secondary track and mix them into LPCM?
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post #95 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Why would it use the core if it's gonna mix though? Wouldn't it just use the lossless track plus the secondary track and mix them into LPCM?

Didn't EVT talk about this yesterday or the day before....ah here it is:
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post

BTW, not only can the PS3 Slim bitstream DTS-MA and TrueHD but it can also play secondary audio when set to do so (unlike any standalone player). I popped in Death Race to test bitstreaming on the the PS3 Slim and for kicks I activated U Control and to my surprise when the picture in picture content kicked in low and behold the PS3 automatically switched to PCM, when the video finished it automatically switched back to DTS-MA. The PS3 deals with these features more seamlessly than any other player; in fact the only player that comes close is the Oppo because at least you can switch secondary audio on and off in the Oppo on the fly without stopping the disc and going into the setup menu.


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post #96 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 01:03 PM
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Has anybody else done comparisons on PQ between slim and original PS3's? I've read reports that some think the slim has better PQ. I have been doing some comparing today between slim and my 60gb. It's a tough call as they look pretty equal after switching enough but I still feel like the slim might has a small boost in PQ. Seems like it has alittle more color to it or something.
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post #97 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy View Post

Has anybody else done comparisons on PQ between slim and original PS3's? I've read reports that some think the slim has better PQ. I have been doing some comparing today between slim and my 60gb. It's a tough call as they look pretty equal after switching enough but I still feel like the slim might has a small boost in PQ. Seems like it has alittle more color to it or something.

I agree, it looks like the PQ is a bit better. One thing for sure is the sound is better going through my receiver via Bitstream. I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH
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post #98 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Unless the ps3 switches to LPCM just so it can play the short sounds (unlikely-it'd take a second or two) I don't see how it could play the menu sounds if it's bitstreaming. Have you tested yourself?


I just tested it and you don"t hear it anymore. Sorry I really thought a heard it the first time.
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post #99 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chinee View Post

HDMI-CEC and Samsung LN40B550.

Does not work well. Only the FF and REW buttons work; Stop, Play and Pause buttons do nothing. I have to use the Up Arrow button to get get the Bluray menu, not sure of the right term; it's the menu where you can bookmark and skip chapters. I have to use this menu to get out of FF or Rew to get the movie to play at normal speed.

Just updated FW to 2.80 last night before hitting the zzzz's, don't know if this would make a difference. I'll see and post up my observations.

Confirmed... the STOP, PLAY and PAUSE buttons do not work. I have to use the bookmark menu to navigate.

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post #100 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Didn't EVT talk about this yesterday or the day before....ah here it is:

Yes, but I was wondering about this statement on the previous post of yours:
Quote:


It's possible that the Slim can do secondary audio (menu sounds, PIP commentary, etc.) by switching to the lossy "core" audio of the primary track. That's how other players do it.

I don't see why any player would switch to the "core" to mix. They can (and should) just decode the lossless stream to PCM and the secondary track, and mix it.
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post #101 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinee View Post

Confirmed... the STOP, PLAY and PAUSE buttons do not work. I have to use the bookmark menu to navigate.

Have you updated the slim to 2.80 yet? Before 2.80 the chapter forward and back buttons were not working on my Panasonic V10; after the 2.80 update everything seems to be working; in fact, I think I would be completely happy with the remote functionality if the select button was available, it's about the only thing of importance that seems to be missing unless you want to use your remote for web surfing then you're out of luck. I have a harmony IR/BT converter for a PS3 in another room that I'm really happy with but I find that I don't use if for web surfing as its nowhere near as effective as using the PS3 controller. As such, the PS3 slim's HDMI control option offers about 95% of what I need when mated to my Panasonic 54V10; who knows, maybe there's a function available on Harmony's database over and above what is on my V10's physical remote that will offer up this functionality (I'll let you all know when I setup my Harmony One in the next couple of weeks).
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post #102 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Yes, but I was wondering about this statement on the previous post of yours:
I don't see why any player would switch to the "core" to mix. They can (and should) just decode the lossless stream to PCM and the secondary track, and mix it.

That was me, and I was poorly expressing the idea that in order to use bitstreaming with secondary audio it is necessary that the lossy primary track be used, since a player can't re-encode the mixed audio as any form of lossless.

I wasn't aware at the time that the Slim neatly sidesteps the issue by simply switching to LPCM when secondary audio is in use, making it behave exactly like a "phat." This seems optimal to me.

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post #103 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 07:10 PM
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Have you updated the slim to 2.80 yet?

Yes. But I'm learning that the HDMI-CEC might be different for each disk. Forexample...

Forbidden Kingdom BD... arrow cluster with the select button at the center... works flawlessly on the Slim using the bookmark menu. Left and right arow buttons around the cluster also did REW and FF.
Chronicles of Riddick DVD... same cluster activated the FF, REW, Pause and Play.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull BD... no chapter forward or back functionality. Cluster brings up the disk menu (Pause/Resume, Settings, Scenes and Home) I have to use the FF and REW buttons on the remote and use the Pause/Resume option from this menu to get out of FF/Rew. Left and right arrow buttons have no usage when playing this movie.

So the HDMI-CEC works... but it's not the same functionality for all movies. You've got to play with the cluster and the DVD control buttons to see which functions are assigned to each button... for each movie.

Hopefully a firmware fix will be made available to address this soon.

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post #104 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 08:53 PM
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I'm new to the PS3 family (24 hours!). I have the PS3 connected to my HDTV via HDMI. I'm using an optical cable for the sound to a 5.1 surround set-up. The PS3 puts out Dolby Digital audio on everything except Blu-ray where I get a Pro-Logic audio signal only. I've tried changing the audio output settings on the PS3 and no luck. Guidance greatly appreciated for this novice. Thanks!!

Note: My Denon AVR is 10 years old. It doesn't have HDMI connections.
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post #105 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinee View Post

Yes. But I'm learning that the HDMI-CEC might be different for each disk. Forexample...

Forbidden Kingdom BD... arrow cluster with the select button at the center... works flawlessly on the Slim using the bookmark menu. Left and right arow buttons around the cluster also did REW and FF.
Chronicles of Riddick DVD... same cluster activated the FF, REW, Pause and Play.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull BD... no chapter forward or back functionality. Cluster brings up the disk menu (Pause/Resume, Settings, Scenes and Home) I have to use the FF and REW buttons on the remote and use the Pause/Resume option from this menu to get out of FF/Rew. Left and right arrow buttons have no usage when playing this movie.

So the HDMI-CEC works... but it's not the same functionality for all movies. You've got to play with the cluster and the DVD control buttons to see which functions are assigned to each button... for each movie.

Hopefully a firmware fix will be made available to address this soon.

Does the PS3 remote also have different functions in different movies?
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post #106 of 1011 Old 08-29-2009, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metta Man View Post

I'm new to the PS3 family (24 hours!). I have the PS3 connected to my HDTV via HDMI. I'm using an optical cable for the sound to a 5.1 surround set-up. The PS3 puts out Dolby Digital audio on everything except Blu-ray where I get a Pro-Logic audio signal only. I've tried changing the audio output settings on the PS3 and no luck. Guidance greatly appreciated for this novice. Thanks!!

Note: My Denon AVR is 10 years old. It doesn't have HDMI connections.

That is why, Your only able to get the Dolby Digtal decoded, if you had HDMI on your recv then you would be in the Hi def audio, sounds like its time for a upgrade on the Recv , alot of great deals out their
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post #107 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 05:18 AM
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Thank you for the answer. The odd thing is the PS3 outputs a DD 5.1 signal for all content e.g. games and 'Home' - but not Blu-ray. So the optical audio is working. Could a Blu-ray specific setting be off the mark? Thanks. - Marc
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post #108 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

That is why, Your only able to get the Dolby Digtal decoded, if you had HDMI on your recv then you would be in the Hi def audio, sounds like its time for a upgrade on the Recv , alot of great deals out their

Hi, which sub-$500 receivers get your vote? Thanks!
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post #109 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Metta Man View Post

Hi, which sub-$500 receivers get your vote? Thanks!

That one gets my vote:


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218095770943
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post #110 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metta Man View Post

Thank you for the answer. The odd thing is the PS3 outputs a DD 5.1 signal for all content e.g. games and 'Home' - but not Blu-ray. So the optical audio is working. Could a Blu-ray specific setting be off the mark? Thanks. - Marc

You would have to see what audio modes the particular Bluray has. You can go to the audio menu and cyccle the audio channels available.

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Hi, which sub-$500 receivers get your vote? Thanks!

Onkyo 607 gets great reviews.
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post #111 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 07:05 AM
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Also, check out this AVR.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._RECEIVER.html
Almost same as the 1019, check Pio's web for a comparison of the 2. J and R was selling them for $329 a month ago but are out of stock now. Good price/performance ratio for HT.
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post #112 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

Does the PS3 remote also have different functions in different movies?

Don't have the remote (Amazon should be delivering it Tuesday) so I haven't tried it yet. Also, using the controller is going to require a whole lot of learning, so I skipped that option.

Now watching Scooby Doo BD, and the cluster does FF REW Play and Pause. There's no fancy (or funky) special Bluray menu on ScoobyDoo... neither is the HD PQ anything to rave about; I'm actually wondering if they stuck a BD label on a DVD movie.

Incredible Hulk BD... awesome PQ but a really funky and complex operation with the Samsung remote, with all the different menus and features they tried to jam onto the BD disc.

Looks like the operation of the HDMI-CEC relies heavily on the features on the BD itself.

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post #113 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 06:34 PM
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I know this uses less power but does anyone have the specs on the actual wattage use vs the 80gb model? I think the 80 gb used like 150w IIRC.
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post #114 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

bitstream does nothing but lights up the AVR.

Let me guess, your AVR doesn't decode the latest hidef audio. Correct?

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post #115 of 1011 Old 08-30-2009, 07:59 PM
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For those that are saying the XMB looks better on the slim, are you referring to the PQ? If so why would it look better if it's using the same software as the old school PS3's?
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post #116 of 1011 Old 08-31-2009, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metta Man View Post

I'm new to the PS3 family (24 hours!). I have the PS3 connected to my HDTV via HDMI. I'm using an optical cable for the sound to a 5.1 surround set-up. The PS3 puts out Dolby Digital audio on everything except Blu-ray where I get a Pro-Logic audio signal only. I've tried changing the audio output settings on the PS3 and no luck. Guidance greatly appreciated for this novice. Thanks!!

Note: My Denon AVR is 10 years old. It doesn't have HDMI connections.

See the PS3 FAQ thread - The "example configuration - Case 5" would apply to your configuration.

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post #117 of 1011 Old 08-31-2009, 11:48 AM
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I have my old model PS3 running into my onkyo 876 and going to a 5.1 setup. Right now it sounds good to me, but could someone explain what I am missing out by NOT having the new slim PS3 and NOT having the bitstreaming?

Right now its linear PCM correct? Is this somehow inferior than what the new PS3 is putting out? I guess I don't understand the difference so I don't understand what I'm missing by not buying the new version.

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post #118 of 1011 Old 08-31-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

I have my old model PS3 running into my onkyo 876 and going to a 5.1 setup. Right now it sounds good to me, but could someone explain what I am missing out by NOT having the new slim PS3 and NOT having the bitstreaming?

Right now its linear PCM correct? Is this somehow inferior than what the new PS3 is putting out? I guess I don't understand the difference so I don't understand what I'm missing by not buying the new version.

Your PS3 decodes all available audio codecs and sends them to your receiver as uncompressed LPCM multichannel audio.

Bitstreaming would allow you to send the undecoded audio data to your Onkyo, which would then do the same thing the PS3 does.

In the case of lossless audio codecs, the resulting LPCM is bit-for-bit identical in either case. If there is an audible difference, it will arise from how your Onkyo processes incoming LPCM vs incoming bitstreams. With my Onkyo 705, there is no difference other than level, which is easily compensated for with the volume control and input trim settings.

However, in the absence of any properly constructed double-blind testing, this has become a religious war. Claims of superior sound via bitstreaming or LPCM can be neither verified nor disproved; in all cases, it is impossible to demonstrate that audible differences are due to the transmission method rather than to processor setup or design.

In your current configuration, you are already getting lossless audio (if present on the disc), properly decoded, from your PS3. With your 876, bitstreaming will not improve sound quality.

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post #119 of 1011 Old 08-31-2009, 01:08 PM
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I really think the difference people think they hear is really a difference in level. I know that was my first impression of standard DD and DTS being decoded by the PS3 VS my current receiver. When I turned up the volume it pretty much sounded the same but the first impression left me saying why does it sound flat when the PS3 does the decoding. I don't have a stand alone player or a slim PS3 to compare bitstream VS LPCM of TrueHD or DTS HD.

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post #120 of 1011 Old 08-31-2009, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfisher View Post

I really think the difference people think they hear is really a difference in level. I know that was my first impression of standard DD and DTS being decoded by the PS3 VS my current receiver. When I turned up the volume it pretty much sounded the same but the first impression left me saying why does it sound flat when the PS3 does the decoding. I don't have a stand alone player or a slim PS3 to compare bitstream VS LPCM of TrueHD or DTS HD.

You are right about the level. For me going through my receiver via Bitstream the sound is more detailed,crisp. Again it also depends of the quality of your components.
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