Official PS3-Slim Master Thread-Post all comments and questions here! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Denny_S View Post

Oh well, I guess that I'm going to stick with the 2.76 FW version for now until the bitstream problem is resolved.

I don't have such issues. I think that information about that problem is erroneous.
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post #182 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

If you use the PS3 Slim (or any other BD player) with an AVR that buffers and reclocks the incoming data stream for the LPCM input then the jitter (timing errors) is removed and there should then be no difference between having the PS3 bitstream vs. use LPCM as long as the AVR applies the same post decoding processing to the LPCM as to internally decoded audio. Compress audio formats (including the lossless Dolby and DTS formats) must buffer the data and use the local clock as part of the decoding process. As a result HDMI jitter introduced on bitstream data into the AVR will always have the jitter removed by the AVR's decoder. Lower end AVRs (e.g., Onkyo 607) don't have the buffering and reclocking for the LPCM input and therefore there will be a difference as compared using bitstream into the AVR. Even some mid to high priced AVRs lack the buffering/reclocking. The higher end Denon AVRs are reported to have the buffering/reclocking but I haven't heard if any of Onkyo models do (or not),

Does the HDMI clock frequency change when the audio sampling rate changes? I always wondered if the AVR reference clock is PLL'd to the HDMI clock which then sets the DAC clock regardless of bitstream or audio sampling.
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post #183 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Denny_S View Post

Oh well, I guess that I'm going to stick with the 2.76 FW version for now until the bitstream problem is resolved.

Excuse my ignorance but what is the bitstream problem? I have the slim bitstreaming and I have only come across one problem and that is with the 192khz TrueHD track on the Akira disc. Is there something else going on?
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post #184 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

Excuse my ignorance but what is the bitstream problem? I have the slim bitstreaming and I have only come across one problem and that is with the 192khz TrueHD track on the Akira disc. Is there something else going on?

As far that I can tell,no.
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post #185 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

Excuse my ignorance but what is the bitstream problem? I have the slim bitstreaming and I have only come across one problem and that is with the 192khz TrueHD track on the Akira disc. Is there something else going on?

The problem is some audio pb with DTS HD MA, sometimes the sound doesn't come through to the AVR and it shows just stereo and you would have to skip chapter or pause play quick or change audio back and forth to get the DTS HD MA sound. It wasn't happening with 2.76 and now it is with 3.0.
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post #186 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jmatman View Post

The problem is some audio pb with DTS HD MA, sometimes the sound doesn't come through to the AVR and it shows just stereo and you would have to skip chapter or pause play quick or change audio back and forth to get the DTS HD MA sound. It wasn't happening with 2.76 and now it is with 3.0.

Verify your disk also. Sometimes they make mistakes when they do audio. I found that out with the Dark Knight Blu-Ray disk. By default it should start with Dolby TruHD but in my case it was just Dolby Digital 5.1. I had to change the audio settings on my PS3 so that it's on English 2 for the Dolby TruHD to kick in.
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post #187 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 03:55 PM
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I can confirm this bug also. Right now I tried Duplicity which has a DTS MA track. Had to switch back and forth audio, and sometimes even that didn't work. Had to then switch to LPCM and back. It also happened the first time I played Devil May Cry with 3.00, which has a THD track. Didn't test further because I thought it was just a one-time quirk.
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post #188 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by skip61 View Post

Verify your disk also. Sometimes they make mistakes when they do audio. I found that out with the Dark Knight Blu-Ray disk. By default it should start with Dolby TruHD but in my case it was just Dolby Digital 5.1. I had to change the audio settings on my PS3 so that it's on English 2 for the Dolby TruHD to kick in.

For me 3 different movies with DTS-hd track I get no audio at all..i either have to recycle back to DTS-hd or fast forward to get sound
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post #189 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 04:04 PM
 
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I don't have such issues. I think that information about that problem is erroneous.

The information is not erroneous. You think because you have not experienced the problem there isn't one?

The problem is real and repeatable and now a number of people are reporting the same issue.

If you want to add something useful, then please report what AVR you are using, and verify that you have updated your Slim console to 3.0 and you have the console configured to output bitsream audio over HDMI, and you have tried playing DTS-HD MA audio. Also, try playing a DTS Master track and skip chapters. Please post your results.

It is possible that this problem is not manifesting on all receivers. I have a Pioneer Elite and I know of at least two others reporting the problem also have Pioneers. I do not consider it a Pioneer problem, however. There could be something that has changed in how the new firmware is outputting the data that only certain hardware is having a problem with. Certainly the 2.76 firmware works fine with my Pioneer receiver.
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post #190 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 04:20 PM
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I have a Denon receiver and I am not experiencing this issue. The weird thing is that I had the LG BD370 that I experienced this same issue with. It would not properly bitstream TrueHD or DTS-MA tracks. I would have to cycle through the audio tracks in order for the lossless track to bitstream. I have owned other standalones and the 370 was the only player that I had this issue with. I wonder if it is a handshake issue that cropped up after firmware 3.00.
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post #191 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 04:35 PM
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It wouldn't be unheard of for a specific implementation of bitstreaming in a source to reveal an incompatibility with the specific decoder implementation in a receiver or series of receivers by a particular manufacturer.

The TiVoHD, for example, when bitstreaming Dolby Digital, loses the center channel when fast-forwarding... only when used with Onkyo x05 receivers. Neither company takes responsibility, and no fix is planned by anyone.

If this is a PS3 vs Pioneer issue, Sony will undoubtedly fix it in a firmware update. That's one of the things that makes the PS3 great.

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post #192 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 04:53 PM
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Oh, that's interesting, didn't notice the others also had Pioneer receivers. I have a Pio VSX-01.
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post #193 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

It's simply an option that some people felt the PS3 should have had. Personally, I never cared if it did or not since it didn't affect me.

Just hooked up the Slim and bitstream audio for Ironman. Sound was awesome and seeing the HD Audio light indicator for the first time on the Denon 889 amp was weirdly cool.
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post #194 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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I'm still not really convinced of the whole bitstream/PCM/lossy/lossless thing, anyway. I consider my system pretty nice, and I've been into home theater for 17 years or better, and I doubt I could pick one over the other in a blind test. Never had any complaints about the way my rig sounded before BD came along. Ignorance is bliss in my case, I guess.

You're just honest with yourself, and too intelligent to be suckered by the placebo effect. There needs to be more of your types around here.
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post #195 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hybridguy View Post

Just hooked up the Slim and bitstream audio for Ironman. Sound was awesome and seeing the HD Audio light indicator for the first time on the Denon 889 amp was weirdly cool.

I'm with you...seeing the Blue Light was great. But the fact remains that it should sound the same as PCM. So if that is the case, well then I'll take the same sound with a little blue light.

For the Record...I have the Denon 1909 and I didn't experience it with Push (DTS-HD MA) last night. But then, I didn't do the jump around with chapters. I will test out that theory tonight on other discs as Push is on its way back to NetFlix.

This issue would be odd to have it just affect a Pioneer/PS3 combo, but ask the Harman Kardon/PS3 crowd....they have been having issues with LPCM for some time now, so it's not impossible. I'm sure they are looking at this bitstream as a godsend.

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post #196 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:25 PM
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why do sont do it everytime they beeter themselves and not to make it worse they even make it smaller. big is no longer better.
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post #197 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:33 PM
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Hmm I just got the Slim today and I have a weird problem. Whenever I'm on the main screen, I see like tons of pixels flashing all over the screen, especially when the background is black. The picture looks fine when I'm playing games or watching DVDs/Blu-rays so I guess it can't be because of my HDMI cable?
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post #198 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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The picture looks fine when I'm playing games or watching DVDs/Blu-rays so I guess it can't be because of my HDMI cable?

Are you sure? Look closely to make sure the "nits" are not there or just harder to see with moving images on the screen.

BTW, the most common effect of an inadequate HDMI cable is an artifact called "sparklies", or flashing/flickering pixels.
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post #199 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

The information is not erroneous. You think because you have not experienced the problem there isn't one?

The problem is real and repeatable and now a number of people are reporting the same issue.

If you want to add something useful, then please report what AVR you are using, and verify that you have updated your Slim console to 3.0 and you have the console configured to output bitsream audio over HDMI, and you have tried playing DTS-HD MA audio. Also, try playing a DTS Master track and skip chapters. Please post your results.

It is possible that this problem is not manifesting on all receivers. I have a Pioneer Elite and I know of at least two others reporting the problem also have Pioneers. I do not consider it a Pioneer problem, however. There could be something that has changed in how the new firmware is outputting the data that only certain hardware is having a problem with. Certainly the 2.76 firmware works fine with my Pioneer receiver.


I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH , tested the PS3 Slim with firmware 2.76 using bitstream using HDMI then updated the firmware to 3.0 and still no issues. And yes I tested DTS Master track on many bd including skipping chapters going back and forth. Still no issues.
I used to test : Master and Commander, Fantastic 4,fantastic 4:Rise of the Silver Surfer, Hellboy II, Bourne Trilogy.

Hope this helps !!!
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post #200 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 08:03 PM
 
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That is good info, Skip. Thanks for posting.

This muddies the water a bit, but that's what trying to get to the root of a problem is about.
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post #201 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbg1 View Post

Hmm I just got the Slim today and I have a weird problem. Whenever I'm on the main screen, I see like tons of pixels flashing all over the screen, especially when the background is black. The picture looks fine when I'm playing games or watching DVDs/Blu-rays so I guess it can't be because of my HDMI cable?

that's part of the new design
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post #202 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by phdeane View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbg1 View Post

Hmm I just got the Slim today and I have a weird problem. Whenever I'm on the main screen, I see like tons of pixels flashing all over the screen, especially when the background is black. The picture looks fine when I'm playing games or watching DVDs/Blu-rays so I guess it can't be because of my HDMI cable?

that's part of the new design

Ha ha, that's a good one. They also made the background purple/pink. I was wondering if the color was dynamic, but so far it doesn't seem so. With the old fat PS3 I'd borrowed it seemed that the background color would change over time, I'm not sure.
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post #203 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Ha ha, that's a good one. They also made the background purple/pink. I was wondering if the color was dynamic, but so far it doesn't seem so. With the old fat PS3 I'd borrowed it seemed that the background color would change over time, I'm not sure.

Sorry if I'm misreading your message, but just wanted to make sure you realize I was serious. There are sparklies (a/k/a pixels flashing) on the XMB screen in the new update.

Now, considering the "sparklies" evident on poor or too lengthy HDMI cables, one could say this was a poor choice by Sony.
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post #204 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Ha ha, that's a good one. They also made the background purple/pink. I was wondering if the color was dynamic, but so far it doesn't seem so. With the old fat PS3 I'd borrowed it seemed that the background color would change over time, I'm not sure.

First few days the color would change on me and it was driving me NUTS!
I was playing with the settings constantly, and almost even considered returning the unit, then I figured out that apparently in the daytime the 'original' color goes to that pinkish-purple, and at night when I turn on the unit the background is black.
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post #205 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Denny_S View Post

First few days the color would change on me and it was driving me NUTS!
I was playing with the settings constantly, and almost even considered returning the unit, then I figured out that apparently in the daytime the 'original' color goes to that pinkish-purple, and at night when I turn on the unit the background is black.

and should cycle through other colors depending on time of day, maybe even the seasons - that assumes it follows the legacy PS3, but I don't see why it would differ, considering they share software.
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post #206 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by phdeane View Post

and should cycle through other colors depending on time of day, maybe even the seasons - that assumes it follows the legacy PS3, but I don't see why it would differ, considering they share software.

That's pretty cool.
However, I wish that they had put a black option under the theme colors, so I could just set it to black and leave it there.
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post #207 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Denny_S View Post

That's pretty cool.
However, I wish that they had put a black option under the theme colors, so I could just set it to black and leave it there.

I guess I've just become accustomed to it, but now that I think about it, sometimes the bg color is a little light, making the text harder to read. Of course, now with the larger text, that may be irrelevant. There is a "Classic" option in the Themes that appears to just get rid of the sparklies.


edit: you can also play with the "Color" and "Background" optons. You may find a combination to your liking.
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post #208 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by phdeane View Post

Sorry if I'm misreading your message, but just wanted to make sure you realize I was serious. There are sparklies (a/k/a pixels flashing) on the XMB screen in the new update.

Now, considering the "sparklies" evident on poor or too lengthy HDMI cables, one could say this was a poor choice by Sony.

No, I knew you were serious, it was funny that someone thought the new theme was somehow a bug! And I don't blame them!
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post #209 of 1011 Old 09-03-2009, 11:56 PM
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I like that it changes colors, but I don't like that the purple/pink one seems to be the "main" one. If I specify a color instead of choosing "original" I guess it would not change colors or at least hues of the same color?
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post #210 of 1011 Old 09-04-2009, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

I like that it changes colors, but I don't like that the purple/pink one seems to be the "main" one. If I specify a color instead of choosing "original" I guess it would not change colors or at least hues of the same color?

Correct, you can also select a picture as the "Wallpaper" background. I suppose you could use an all-black image as the wallpaper, if you wanted a full black background. And I'm with you, I do like the changing colors. I don't even mind the sparklies, but they are simple to turn off for those who don't.
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