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post #361 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 03:09 AM
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J-hawk88,

I have a Pro-150FD Kuro (8G). I'll send you a PM and we can discuss further. I will have the 4010CI, AVR-5308CI and Kuro Pro-150FD in my setup.

Thanks,
Dave

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post #362 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 05:34 AM
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alebonau,

Thanks. My aspect ratio on the 4010 is set to 16:9 squeeze auto. The kuro info display reads:

Input4, HDMI, 1080p, 36bit, Pure, Full

After reading your comments about Titanic, I switched to Star Wars III and the image was as expected. Damn! I must have the worst luck picking discs to play in my 4010: Iron Man and Titanic!!! Funny, I don't remember having this problem with Titanic on my old Pioneer DVD player -- but I was using component connections with that. Perhaps this is something to do with HDMI.

Mike

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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

mike looked in my collection and cant find titanic dvd, which means either I jsut cant find it which is likely or more likely I did indeed sell it off in a huff !

anyways to confirm my aspect ratio settings :

on the kuro remote hit the display "info button"

should say "Full1" for aspect.

in the 4010 under "video setup"

go to "tv aspect" should say 16:9 squeeze auto" this is the correct mode for anamorfic dvds which it will automatically squeeze to 16:9 and will play non anamorfic stuff like blu-ray that is 16:9 already will come straight through. also 4:3 material will come through in the right format as well.

not sure if this will help your titanic disc though, as mentioned it had an aspect ratio anomaly that dont think anything will fix. this is as per a local reviewer here, not sure if the same for the us R1 edition,

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Titanic.asp


when it was screened locally on tv a while back they screwed up the aspect ratio there as well, for the entire movie, probably thought something your average man on the street would hardly notice !

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post #363 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mjsammon View Post

Hi,

I just picked up a 4010 and connected it to my AVP-A1HDCI. I also could not get the clock light to turn on so I followed the instructions from markrubin below and, voila! -- the clock light is on!

HOWEVER, when I switched back to my cable box HDMI input, it was blank. At first I thought I bumped some wiring while connecting the 4010 but that was not the case. On the AVP I looked at Source Select -> TV/CBL -> Assign and noticed that HDMI was no longer an option!!! I turned off HDMI control on the AVP and HDMI reappeared as an option on TV/CBL -> Assign. Is this by design or have I found a bug in the AVP firmware? (I have the latest firmware).

...snip
Mike

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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post



woohoo !

stephen your the man !

it was the kurolink "switch to av sound" that did it.

what this indicates is that really the kuro I didnt have setup for hdmi control and hence why was falling down.

so yeah 3 lights for blu-ray.

one little stumbling block though with hdmi control on, now wont pass audio/picture through from my tivo hd !

perhaps hte tivo is not hdmi control enabled ? I'll try the ps3 later see how that goes with hdmi control on.

what might mean is if I want to see the three lights or for best performance on pcm with blu-ray I can always turn hdmi control on. rest of the time by default I might have to leave it off ?

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Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Oh, three light happiness passes so swiftly!

I read your post and ran down stairs and turned on my Tivo -- no sound. Plus simply setting the Kuro Link input to "Off" does not bring back the sound. I have to cycle the power to reset whatever is unhappy. ...snip...

I do not have a Tivo or Tivo HD- so cannot comment on the specific problem that J-Hawk88 and Alebonau seem to have with the Tivo/Tivo HD not working if the AVP A1HD HDMI Control is set to On.

Can I check, however, if your Tivo/Tivo HD is connected by HDMI to the TV/CBL input on the AVP A1HD (or if you have assigned TV/CBL to an HDMI input on the AVP A1HD)? If so, I am afraid that you are out of luck and will have to pick another AVP A1HD input such as HDP or SAT to assign the Tivo/Tivo HD HDMI output as the AVP A1HD manual (Page 63) says that

" “HDMI Setup” – “HDMI Control” (> page 31).
• When using these functions do not assign the “HDMI” to “TV/CBL”."

Try and assign your Tivo/Tivo HDMI output to AVP A1HD SAT or HDP HDMI input and see if the Tvo/Tivo HD work. I have done this for my HD cable STB/DVR and it works fine even with the AVP A1HD HDMI Control set to On.

Stephen
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post #364 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 07:54 AM
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Aha!!! So this is by design and NOT a bug in the AVP's firmware -- excellent find! Oh well, I suppose I'll have to watch my cable box on an input other than TV/CBL.

Mike

BTW, I found this on page 70 in my AVP manual.


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Originally Posted by StephenBishop View Post

I do not have a Tivo or Tivo HD- so cannot comment on the specific problem that J-Hawk88 and Alebonau seem to have with the Tivo/Tivo HD not working if the AVP A1HD HDMI Control is set to On.

Can I check, however, if your Tivo/Tivo HD is connected by HDMI to the TV/CBL input on the AVP A1HD (or if you have assigned TV/CBL to an HDMI input on the AVP A1HD)? If so, I am afraid that you are out of luck and will have to pick another AVP A1HD input such as HDP or SAT to assign the Tivo/Tivo HD HDMI output as the AVP A1HD manual (Page 63) says that

" HDMI Setup - HDMI Control (> page 31).
When using these functions do not assign the HDMI to TV/CBL."

Try and assign your Tivo/Tivo HDMI output to AVP A1HD SAT or HDP HDMI input and see if the Tvo/Tivo HD work. I have done this for my HD cable STB/DVR and it works fine even with the AVP A1HD HDMI Control set to On.

Stephen

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post #365 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenBishop View Post

I do not have a Tivo or Tivo HD- so cannot comment on the specific problem that J-Hawk88 and Alebonau seem to have with the Tivo/Tivo HD not working if the AVP A1HD HDMI Control is set to On.

Can I check, however, if your Tivo/Tivo HD is connected by HDMI to the TV/CBL input on the AVP A1HD (or if you have assigned TV/CBL to an HDMI input on the AVP A1HD)? If so, I am afraid that you are out of luck and will have to pick another AVP A1HD input such as HDP or SAT to assign the Tivo/Tivo HD HDMI output as the AVP A1HD manual (Page 63) says that

" HDMI Setup - HDMI Control (> page 31).
When using these functions do not assign the HDMI to TV/CBL."

Try and assign your Tivo/Tivo HDMI output to AVP A1HD SAT or HDP HDMI input and see if the Tvo/Tivo HD work. I have done this for my HD cable STB/DVR and it works fine even with the AVP A1HD HDMI Control set to On.

Stephen

wow stephen your help is very much appreciated !

I will try another input apart from tv/cbl. fingers crossed.

excellent find and thanks for letting us know

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post #366 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsammon View Post

Aha!!! So this is by design and NOT a bug in the AVP's firmware -- excellent find! Oh well, I suppose I'll have to watch my cable box on an input other than TV/CBL.

Mike

BTW, I found this on page 70 in my AVP manual.

My model is the AVP A1HD and therefore page 63 of the manual. I expect your model is the AVP A1HDCI- which has an added tuner- so the manual is likely slightly different!

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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

wow stephen your help is very much appreciated !

I will try another input apart from tv/cbl. fingers crossed.

excellent find and thanks for letting us know

You are welcome.
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post #367 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenBishop View Post

I do not have a Tivo or Tivo HD- so cannot comment on the specific problem that J-Hawk88 and Alebonau seem to have with the Tivo/Tivo HD not working if the AVP A1HD HDMI Control is set to On.

Can I check, however, if your Tivo/Tivo HD is connected by HDMI to the TV/CBL input on the AVP A1HD (or if you have assigned TV/CBL to an HDMI input on the AVP A1HD)? If so, I am afraid that you are out of luck and will have to pick another AVP A1HD input such as HDP or SAT to assign the Tivo/Tivo HD HDMI output as the AVP A1HD manual (Page 63) says that

" HDMI Setup - HDMI Control (> page 31).
When using these functions do not assign the HDMI to TV/CBL."

Try and assign your Tivo/Tivo HDMI output to AVP A1HD SAT or HDP HDMI input and see if the Tvo/Tivo HD work. I have done this for my HD cable STB/DVR and it works fine even with the AVP A1HD HDMI Control set to On.

Stephen

This is a head scratcher for me. I have my TiVo S3 connected to the DVR-1 input which is assigned to HDMI 5 (the default I believe). A FIOS standard definition STB is connected to the TV/CBL input via S-Video. I don't think I need to move my TiVo to another input, but there definitely is something special about the TV/CBL input.

This morning when I went down to test the TiVo after reading Alebonau's post, when I selected Watch TiVo on my Harmony remote I was seeing video from the STB -- i.e., the TV/CBL input was selected even though the Harmony activity for Watch TiVo specifically selects the DVR-1 input. I manually switched over to DVR-1 and got TiVo video with no sound.

I played with it a bit tonight and have a little better understanding of what is going on, but it still seems a bit flakey to me. When Kuro Link is set to the AVR input, no matter what Harmony activity I select (e.g., Watch BD, Watch DVD or Watch TiVo), the AVR always ends up on the TV/CBL input. When I manually switch to the desired source, sometimes I have sound and sometimes I do not. In the latter case I need to go back to the Kuro Link menu and select Switch AV Sound.

When I watch the AVR power up I can see it select the correct source input by observing the LED display, but it then switches to the TV/CBL input. There appears to be some kind of timing issue between the Kuro and AVR. Perhaps I need to look more carefully at the timing sequence of the Harmony activities. I decreased the delay times a bit to speed things up, so maybe I need to go back to the more conservative default values.

I am still puzzled why the AVR wants to switch to the TV/CBL input. Perhaps if there is no active signal on the input it will not switch. There is no full power off control on the STB, so there is always a signal on the video and audio inputs. I am tempted to disconnect it to see what happens, but my cabinet & equipment weigh about 700 lbs. and I am not in the state of mind to pull it away from the wall just yet.

More importantly, it is probably time for me to RTFM.
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post #368 of 1244 Old 01-11-2010, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

More importantly, it is probably time for me to RTFM.

Do some searches on HDMI CEC and you'll find that it's quite often a nightmare when it's turned on. I honestly don't get why Denon set things up so that CEC needs to be turned on for DL4 to work properly as it can have all sorts of undesirable side effects.
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post #369 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

This is a head scratcher for me. I have my TiVo S3 connected to the DVR-1 input which is assigned to HDMI 5 (the default I believe). A FIOS standard definition STB is connected to the TV/CBL input via S-Video. I don't think I need to move my TiVo to another input, but there definitely is something special about the TV/CBL input.

This morning when I went down to test the TiVo after reading Alebonau's post, when I selected Watch TiVo on my Harmony remote I was seeing video from the STB -- i.e., the TV/CBL input was selected even though the Harmony activity for Watch TiVo specifically selects the DVR-1 input. I manually switched over to DVR-1 and got TiVo video with no sound.

I played with it a bit tonight and have a little better understanding of what is going on, but it still seems a bit flakey to me. When Kuro Link is set to the AVR input, no matter what Harmony activity I select (e.g., Watch BD, Watch DVD or Watch TiVo), the AVR always ends up on the TV/CBL input. When I manually switch to the desired source, sometimes I have sound and sometimes I do not. In the latter case I need to go back to the Kuro Link menu and select Switch AV Sound.

When I watch the AVR power up I can see it select the correct source input by observing the LED display, but it then switches to the TV/CBL input. There appears to be some kind of timing issue between the Kuro and AVR. Perhaps I need to look more carefully at the timing sequence of the Harmony activities. I decreased the delay times a bit to speed things up, so maybe I need to go back to the more conservative default values.

I am still puzzled why the AVR wants to switch to the TV/CBL input. Perhaps if there is no active signal on the input it will not switch. There is no full power off control on the STB, so there is always a signal on the video and audio inputs. I am tempted to disconnect it to see what happens, but my cabinet & equipment weigh about 700 lbs. and I am not in the state of mind to pull it away from the wall just yet.

More importantly, it is probably time for me to RTFM.

hawk, I'll be honest when read your post this morning hadnt a clue what you were on about !

anyways like a lemming I have pretty much followed your exact same path and come to the exact same conclusions. all you have said above now makes some sense...having experienced exactly the same !

this is spooky !

I am not sure what the deal with the tv/cbl input is. but one thing I know with hdmi control on. once you switch to "sat" for instance as I did and select a dmi input for it. rather strangely if goign back to tv/cbl you will see there is no hdmi selection possible. turn off hdmi control and hdmi selection pops up again.

but yeah returns to tv/cbl all the time with hdmi control on. and no audio comes through only picture if another input asigned to eg "sat" as I have. could be it is related to the tivo which never switches off. I know with hdmi at times I read about people needing things to be switched on and off for hdmi to be working selected. perhaps this is not see with he tivo not going on / off wiht the rest of the system

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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Do some searches on HDMI CEC and you'll find that it's quite often a nightmare when it's turned on. I honestly don't get why Denon set things up so that CEC needs to be turned on for DL4 to work properly as it can have all sorts of undesirable side effects.

yep, my conclusions to. denon are nuts to have invoked hdmi control for this. its most definite they have a bit of work to do for it to be working smoothly. sure this perhaps relates to other components used in peoples systems. but I can understand now why it is just so hit and miss for many.

but its not like I'm using some weird equipment. a pio kuro krp-500m, a tivo hd, all are pretty mainstream. and youd expect these to work with denons systems !

I hope denon is reading

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post #370 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I honestly don't get why Denon set things up so that CEC needs to be turned on for DL4 to work properly as it can have all sorts of undesirable side effects.

Those were my thoughts exactly, but I am new at this and was reluctant to blurt that out. I will take your advice though and try to learn a little bit about HDMI control.

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Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

There appears to be some kind of timing issue between the Kuro and AVR. Perhaps I need to look more carefully at the timing sequence of the Harmony activities. I decreased the delay times a bit to speed things up, so maybe I need to go back to the more conservative default values.

I don't think Harmony command sequencing has anything to do with this. I put my Harmony remote in the drawer and used the individual remotes for the monitor, Tivo and AVR to manually power on and select inputs. It didn't matter in what order I did things and how long I waited in between commands, I always got the same results. The AVR always ends up selecting the TV/CBL input.

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Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

More importantly, it is probably time for me to RTFM.

Well, I read both the PRO-141FD and AVR-5308CI manuals with respect to HDMI control and it didn't help much. However, looking at a diagram in the 5803 manual showing a connection from the TV to the AVR using the TV/CBL input leads me to assume that would be used in the case where the TV is routing audio to the AVR (i.e., back hauling audio from a source connected to another TV input). In such a case it would make sense for the AVR to switch to the TV/CBL input if it was told the TV was supplying audio. I further assume that the Kuro Switch AV Sound option is used to reverse that and tell the AVR to supply audio to the TV (that is a WAG on my part).

What I don't get is why the PRO-141 would be doing that given that there are no other active inputs on the monitor, and certainly not one that is currently selected, and it makes even less sense [to me] why that would be the default.

Clearly there is something I am not understanding here. Instinct tells me that something is misconfigured and I need to go back and check my settings against instructions given earlier in this thread.

One last comment (and perhaps a clue): Even with TiVo out of the picture, life is not perfect. When I get everything working with the 4010 (i.e., Denon Link clock control is indicated and I have sound), if I power off every thing and power back on (as if I came back another day to play a BD), I may or may not have sound even though clock control will always be indicated (i.e., three blue lights).
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post #371 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 01:23 AM
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Denon changes the behavior of HDMI CEC in the firmware one year ago (Oct 2008 to be precise).

Before, even with HDMI Control ON, you still have the ability to assign HDMI input on TV/CBL. With the new firmware, they have removed this HDMI assignment capability.

Here is why:

When HDMI Control is ON, Denon assumes when you want to watch TV, you simply turn on the TV and nothing else and the TV will trigger the amp to turn on via HDMI and the TV will tell the amp to switch to the correct input TV/CBL to match the audio output of the TV. Denon *assumes* the TV tuner is in the TV (not an ext. STB) so that the sound comes from the TV's RCA/Toslink output and therefore, it is not necessary to have HDMI input assigment to the TV/CBL input.

So even the Harmony remote sets the amp to input DVR-1, as soon as the TV is powered on, it'll tell the amp to switch to TV/CBL via the HDMI link

The solution is to turn off HDMI Control in the TV and assign say Sat or DVR-1 to the ext. STB when watching TV.
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post #372 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

~
One last comment (and perhaps a clue): Even with TiVo out of the picture, life is not perfect. When I get everything working with the 4010 (i.e., Denon Link clock control is indicated and I have sound), if I power off every thing and power back on (as if I came back another day to play a BD), I may or may not have sound even though clock control will always be indicated (i.e., three blue lights).

hawk this is some curious behaviour indeed ! not something I have experienced. but will replicate to see if experience the same

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Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

Denon changes the behavior of HDMI CEC in the firmware one year ago (Oct 2008 to be precise).

Before, even with HDMI Control ON, you still have the ability to assign HDMI input on TV/CBL. With the new firmware, they have removed this HDMI assignment capability.

Here is why:

When HDMI Control is ON, Denon assumes when you want to watch TV, you simply turn on the TV and nothing else and the TV will trigger the amp to turn on via HDMI and the TV will tell the amp to switch to the correct input TV/CBL to match the audio output of the TV. Denon *assumes* the TV tuner is in the TV (not an ext. STB) so that the sound comes from the TV's RCA/Toslink output and therefore, it is not necessary to have HDMI input assigment to the TV/CBL input.

So even the Harmony remote sets the amp to input DVR-1, as soon as the TV is powered on, it'll tell the amp to switch to TV/CBL via the HDMI link

The solution is to turn off HDMI Control in the TV and assign say Sat or DVR-1 to the ext. STB when watching TV.

that is really interesting kuro, but I just wish it wasnt so !

I eally wonder why denon has to assume that tv/cbl has to work that way with hdmi cec control enabled. all tv/cbl does for me is route the tivo through to my kuro. not the other way around presuming my tv is hooked upto the tv/cbl input. my kuro doesnt even has a hdmi output to feed audio through to the avp ! bizare. I think I need to rtfm as well ! the funny thing is there is zip zilch in the denon avp's manual re denon link 4 that I can find. they really need to bring out an update that covers it setup in some depth !
Quote:
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~

The solution is to turn off HDMI Control in the TV and assign say Sat or DVR-1 to the ext. STB when watching TV.

now in this little crumb of information, I wonder if the answer does indeed lie in here. but then I was not able to get denon link 4 working without turning hdmi control and kuro link in the tv ?

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post #373 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post


snip.....

I eally wonder why denon has to assume that tv/cbl has to work that way with hdmi cec control enabled. all tv/cbl does for me is route the tivo through to my kuro. not the other way around presuming my tv is hooked upto the tv/cbl input. my kuro doesnt even has a hdmi output to feed audio through to the avp ! bizare. I think I need to rtfm as well ! the funny thing is there is zip zilch in the denon avp's manual re denon link 4 that I can find. they really need to bring out an update that covers it setup in some depth !


now in this little crumb of information, I wonder if the answer does indeed lie in here. but then I was not able to get denon link 4 working without turning hdmi control and kuro link in the tv ?

Bizarre indeed. However, I wonder whether it is a problem only with HDMI Control on the Kuro and the AVP A1HD HDMI CEC implementation? I am not aware of this problem with any other monitors.

When I was getting Denon to do housecalls to trouble shoot this problem on my DVD A1UD, the Denon tech told me that Denon Japan had not tested this feature with a Kuro but had done so on a Panny with no problem. So I wonder if it is a non-standard HDMI CEC implementation on the Kuro which is causing this problem.

Stephen
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post #374 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

now in this little crumb of information, I wonder if the answer does indeed lie in here. but then I was not able to get denon link 4 working without turning hdmi control and kuro link in the tv ?

You can turn off Kuro Link in your Kuro plasma and leave HDMI Control ON in your Denon amp and everything will work just fine.

I did because I've the same setup and ran into the same problem. Took me the longest time to figure this all out via trial and error.
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post #375 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenBishop View Post

Bizarre indeed. However, I wonder whether it is a problem only with HDMI Control on the Kuro and the AVP A1HD HDMI CEC implementation? I am not aware of this problem with any other monitors.

When I was getting Denon to do housecalls to trouble shoot this problem on my DVD A1UD, the Denon tech told me that Denon Japan had not tested this feature with a Kuro but had done so on a Panny with no problem. So I wonder if it is a non-standard HDMI CEC implementation on the Kuro which is causing this problem.

Stephen

certainly sounds like implmentations that are different Stephen. I imagine they used a pana with built in tuner and outputted to the avp. lets jsut hope they do some testing on a kuro monitor.

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Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

You can turn off Kuro Link in your Kuro plasma and leave HDMI Control ON in your Denon amp and everything will work just fine.

I did because I've the same setup and ran into the same problem. Took me the longest time to figure this all out via trial and error.

that is very interesting kuro. what setting on the kuro would you suggest to switch off on the display once have hdmi control turned on the denon avp ?

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post #376 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 04:37 AM
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Looks like we're having similar problems. I switched my cable box to DVR-1 and I always get the clock light when playing BDs -- life is good. BUT, If I'm watching cable on DVR-1 and I power everything off I would expect the AVP active input to be DVR-1 when I power it on -- which it is. HOWEVER, as soon as I power on my Kuro, the AVP switches to TV/CBL. There was a previous post about why this happens and the way to get around it is to disable HDMI control on the Kuro. I did this and the Kuro still switches the AVP to TV/CBL when it powers up. Anybody else out there having this problem?

Thx,

Mike


UPDATE: a poor-man's workaround for this problem:

Since I don't have a TV connected to Monitor2, I set HDMI Control -> Control Monitor to Monitor 2. Now when I turn on my Kuro, the AVP does not switch to TV/CBL and retains its last input setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

This is a head scratcher for me. I have my TiVo S3 connected to the DVR-1 input which is assigned to HDMI 5 (the default I believe). A FIOS standard definition STB is connected to the TV/CBL input via S-Video. I don't think I need to move my TiVo to another input, but there definitely is something special about the TV/CBL input.

This morning when I went down to test the TiVo after reading Alebonau's post, when I selected Watch TiVo on my Harmony remote I was seeing video from the STB -- i.e., the TV/CBL input was selected even though the Harmony activity for Watch TiVo specifically selects the DVR-1 input. I manually switched over to DVR-1 and got TiVo video with no sound.

I played with it a bit tonight and have a little better understanding of what is going on, but it still seems a bit flakey to me. When Kuro Link is set to the AVR input, no matter what Harmony activity I select (e.g., Watch BD, Watch DVD or Watch TiVo), the AVR always ends up on the TV/CBL input. When I manually switch to the desired source, sometimes I have sound and sometimes I do not. In the latter case I need to go back to the Kuro Link menu and select Switch AV Sound.

When I watch the AVR power up I can see it select the correct source input by observing the LED display, but it then switches to the TV/CBL input. There appears to be some kind of timing issue between the Kuro and AVR. Perhaps I need to look more carefully at the timing sequence of the Harmony activities. I decreased the delay times a bit to speed things up, so maybe I need to go back to the more conservative default values.

I am still puzzled why the AVR wants to switch to the TV/CBL input. Perhaps if there is no active signal on the input it will not switch. There is no full power off control on the STB, so there is always a signal on the video and audio inputs. I am tempted to disconnect it to see what happens, but my cabinet & equipment weigh about 700 lbs. and I am not in the state of mind to pull it away from the wall just yet.

More importantly, it is probably time for me to RTFM.

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post #377 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

that is very interesting kuro. what setting on the kuro would you suggest to switch off on the display once have hdmi control turned on the denon avp ?

I've the Pioneer 500M and AVC-A1HD (5308 for North America version). I have HDMI Control ON on the A1HD and Kuro link OFF on my 500M. This works without the 500M switching input on me when powered on.
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post #378 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsammon View Post

Looks like we're having similar problems. I switched my cable box to DVR-1 and I always get the clock light when playing BDs -- life is good. BUT, If I'm watching cable on DVR-1 and I power everything off I would expect the AVP active input to be DVR-1 when I power it on -- which it is. HOWEVER, as soon as I power on my Kuro, the AVP switches to TV/CBL. There was a previous post about why this happens and the way to get around it is to disable HDMI control on the Kuro. I did this and the Kuro still switches the AVP to TV/CBL when it powers up. Anybody else out there having this problem?

Thx,

Mike

Yep! The Kuro doesn't seem to remember the control setting after its been switched off!
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post #379 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsammon View Post

Looks like we're having similar problems. I switched my cable box to DVR-1 and I always get the clock light when playing BDs -- life is good. BUT, If I'm watching cable on DVR-1 and I power everything off I would expect the AVP active input to be DVR-1 when I power it on -- which it is. HOWEVER, as soon as I power on my Kuro, the AVP switches to TV/CBL. There was a previous post about why this happens and the way to get around it is to disable HDMI control on the Kuro. I did this and the Kuro still switches the AVP to TV/CBL when it powers up. Anybody else out there having this problem?

Yes, that is what I have been struggling with, but I have finally achieved blue-light nirvana.

Basically, I had two issues causing me grief. First, the default power-on state for the Kuro seems to be "Switch to FPD Sound" -- i.e., Kuro assumes it will back haul audio to AV system. The fix for that is to select "Switch to AV Sound" in the Kuro Link menu and set "Hold Sound Status" to On in the Kuro Control Setup menu:

Kuro Link/Switch Sound to AV
Home Menu/Control Setup/Kuro Link Control/Hold Sound Status = ON

The second issue was the AVR always switching to TV/CBL. The solution to this is simple:

Menu/Manual Setup/Option Setup/Source Delete/TVCBL = Delete

There may be alternative paths to the same end, but this works for me. I am able to use my Harmony remote as it was intended and all of the activities I have programmed work without any additional fiddling. Actually, I think I will delete all unused inputs since that makes some of the AVR menus smaller and easier to navigate.
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post #380 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

I've the Pioneer 500M and AVC-A1HD (5308 for North America version). I have HDMI Control ON on the A1HD and Kuro link OFF on my 500M. This works without the 500M switching input on me when powered on.

Kuro, since you are posting in this thread I assume you also have a 4010. With Kuro Link = Off set on your 500M are you able to get the Clock Control indicator on the 4010 -- i.e., three blue lights?

I was never able to get the third light until I set Kuro Link = Input 5, and then I started having the issues with sound and TV/CBL.
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post #381 of 1244 Old 01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
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J-Hawk,

Thanks, I'll try it tonight. I also updated my post with another solution -- take a look.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Yes, that is what I have been struggling with, but I have finally achieved blue-light nirvana.

Basically, I had two issues causing me grief. First, the default power-on state for the Kuro seems to be "Switch to FPD Sound" -- i.e., Kuro assumes it will back haul audio to AV system. The fix for that is to select "Switch to AV Sound" in the Kuro Link menu and set "Hold Sound Status" to On in the Kuro Control Setup menu:

Kuro Link/Switch Sound to AV
Home Menu/Control Setup/Kuro Link Control/Hold Sound Status = ON

The second issue was the AVR always switching to TV/CBL. The solution to this is simple:

Menu/Manual Setup/Option Setup/Source Delete/TVCBL = Delete

There may be alternative paths to the same end, but this works for me. I am able to use my Harmony remote as it was intended and all of the activities I have programmed work without any additional fiddling. Actually, I think I will delete all unused inputs since that makes some of the AVR menus smaller and easier to navigate.

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post #382 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Yes, that is what I have been struggling with, but I have finally achieved blue-light nirvana.

Basically, I had two issues causing me grief. First, the default power-on state for the Kuro seems to be "Switch to FPD Sound" -- i.e., Kuro assumes it will back haul audio to AV system. The fix for that is to select "Switch to AV Sound" in the Kuro Link menu and set "Hold Sound Status" to On in the Kuro Control Setup menu:

Kuro Link/Switch Sound to AV
Home Menu/Control Setup/Kuro Link Control/Hold Sound Status = ON

The second issue was the AVR always switching to TV/CBL. The solution to this is simple:

Menu/Manual Setup/Option Setup/Source Delete/TVCBL = Delete

There may be alternative paths to the same end, but this works for me. I am able to use my Harmony remote as it was intended and all of the activities I have programmed work without any additional fiddling. Actually, I think I will delete all unused inputs since that makes some of the AVR menus smaller and easier to navigate.

fabulous find hawke, in the back of mind I did wonder about deleting tv/cbl. but then worried what would I do if I needed it back !

ps I am little unsure what this suggested step does for the kuro ?

Kuro Link/Switch Sound to AV
Home Menu/Control Setup/Kuro Link Control/Hold Sound Status = ON

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Kuro, since you are posting in this thread I assume you also have a 4010. With Kuro Link = Off set on your 500M are you able to get the Clock Control indicator on the 4010 -- i.e., three blue lights?

I was never able to get the third light until I set Kuro Link = Input 5, and then I started having the issues with sound and TV/CBL.

yes something I couldnt get working either till turned on kuro link. be curious to know if another way around it.

the other thing want to try is the one suggested to make the control monitor monitor 2 which I dont have !

some playing around to do when get a chance !

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post #383 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Kuro, since you are posting in this thread I assume you also have a 4010. With Kuro Link = Off set on your 500M are you able to get the Clock Control indicator on the 4010 -- i.e., three blue lights?

I was never able to get the third light until I set Kuro Link = Input 5, and then I started having the issues with sound and TV/CBL.

Sorry, I was just speaking about not automatically switching to TV/CBL in general, but haven't got the 4010 until today.

Anyway, in order to turn on clock control, you do need Kuro link on the TV, plus Hold Sound Staus ON. The power off control in the TV and amp can be all switched off.

In order to prevent TV/CBL switching, delete the TV/CBL input in the amp's menu. It does allow you to delete it or turn it back on. So deleting it will enable the Harmony remote to work w/o switching to TV/CBL upon TV powering on.

Since I'm upgrading from Panny BD-30, I found the 4010's PQ as super clean and the sound is much punchier with Denon Link 4 enabled.
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post #384 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

yes something I couldnt get working either till turned on kuro link. be curious to know if another way around it.

All this because your kuro doesnt have a sp dif output Al . You'de think Denon would consider monitors ;my not so old tosh lcd doesnt have a dig output either

Once you have a pvr ; your not likely to use the built in tuner [hard to do without timeshifting ]. If Denon upgrades or retrofits hdmi 1.4 with its return hdmi channel ;this wouldnt be a problem Its a good thing you like to bitstream and lpcm is secondary .
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post #385 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

ps I am little unsure what this suggested step does for the kuro ?

Kuro Link/Switch Sound to AV
Home Menu/Control Setup/Kuro Link Control/Hold Sound Status = ON


The first command invokes some kind of HDMI handshake (I'm guessing here) to cause the AVR not to send sound via HDMI and to receive sound from the display panel via analog or optical TV/CBL inputs -- hence, no sound and AVR switches to TV/CBL input.

The second command causes the display panel to remember and restore the state of the sound source after a power up. You will see a dialog on your display after power up indicating it is switching to AV sound as if you invoked the "Switch to AV Sound" yourself.
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post #387 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsammon View Post

UPDATE: a poor-man's workaround for this problem:

Since I don't have a TV connected to Monitor2, I set HDMI Control -> Control Monitor to Monitor 2. Now when I turn on my Kuro, the AVP does not switch to TV/CBL and retains its last input setting.

I believe this is a better solution as long as you do not have two monitors connected. It requires fewer configuration parameters be changed, and more importantly for me, I don't have to look at that "Switch to AV Sound" dialog that pops up on my display panel after power up. The latter is a consequence of setting "Hold Sound Status" to ON. Also, I can use the TV/CBL input as it was intended and connect my STB to it.

Basically, all that is necessary on the display panel is to set Kuro Link to Input 5 (or whatever is appropriate in your case). Power Off Control, Power On Ready and Hold Sound Status can be left in their default state (i.e., OFF) and no sound source switching is required after power up. I also confirmed what "Kuro" posted, namely, that Power Off Control can also be set to OFF in the AVP/AVR and 4010.

From what I understand, the jitter free clock control function is only pertinent to the AVR/AVP and 4010. If this is so, why is it necessary to enable HDMI control in the display panel, and why does Denon require it to be on in the first place. With respect to the latter, I am assuming that Denon chose to use HDMI control to handshake between the AVR/AVP and the player and negotiate use of the clock control, and perhaps leave the door open for other possible uses of the Denon Link. However, this should not involve the display panel unless it is nessary to enable HDMI control end-to-end. I guess I could read the HDMI CEC spec as someone suggested and learn why this is so, but that would require some effort on my part. Perhaps later. For the time being I am very happy.
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post #388 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 07:27 PM
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Anyone knows what the latest firmware improves/fixes for the 4010?
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post #389 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

Basically, all that is necessary on the display panel is to set Kuro Link to Input 5 (or whatever is appropriate in your case). Power Off Control, Power On Ready and Hold Sound Status can be left in their default state (i.e., OFF) and no sound source switching is required after power up. I also confirmed what "Kuro" posted, namely, that Power Off Control can also be set to OFF in the AVP/AVR and 4010.

Hi J-Hawk88,

Sounds like your solution maybe better, I'll give it a try later.

I found one additional thing. I've a Sony VW80 PJ on Monitor 2 and I did not turn on HDMI control for the VW80. Now, when I watch BD on the 4010 on the VW80, I still get the 3 lights even my Pioneer 500M is off. The 500M does have Kuro link turned on.

So it seems all it requires is that one of the displays on the Monitor out needs to have HDMI control turned on. So as long as the amp tells the 4010 yes, there is a monitor with HDMI control turned on, and even if that monitor is off, all 3 LEDs on the 4010 will light up!
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post #390 of 1244 Old 01-13-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Hawk88 View Post

I believe this is a better solution as long as you do not have two monitors connected. It requires fewer configuration parameters be changed, and more importantly for me, I don't have to look at that "Switch to AV Sound" dialog that pops up on my display panel after power up. The latter is a consequence of setting "Hold Sound Status" to ON. Also, I can use the TV/CBL input as it was intended and connect my STB to it.

Basically, all that is necessary on the display panel is to set Kuro Link to Input 5 (or whatever is appropriate in your case). Power Off Control, Power On Ready and Hold Sound Status can be left in their default state (i.e., OFF) and no sound source switching is required after power up. I also confirmed what "Kuro" posted, namely, that Power Off Control can also be set to OFF in the AVP/AVR and 4010.

From what I understand, the jitter free clock control function is only pertinent to the AVR/AVP and 4010. If this is so, why is it necessary to enable HDMI control in the display panel, and why does Denon require it to be on in the first place. With respect to the latter, I am assuming that Denon chose to use HDMI control to handshake between the AVR/AVP and the player and negotiate use of the clock control, and perhaps leave the door open for other possible uses of the Denon Link. However, this should not involve the display panel unless it is nessary to enable HDMI control end-to-end. I guess I could read the HDMI CEC spec as someone suggested and learn why this is so, but that would require some effort on my part. Perhaps later. For the time being I am very happy.

hwake, did you try the monitor 2 as control monitor solution. I did. didnt work for me. would be the easy as pie way to go and especially since I only running one display.

if you have got it to work was it with some other jiggery pokeri ?

I have no idea either why all this is needing to involve the display. they should just have an "off" setting for the control monitor and ignores for purposes of hdmi control what the display is doing. and only uses it for clock control as intended !

ps am yet to try your latter suggestion with hold status. was about to delete the tv/cbl input on the avp. about had my gut full with it !

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