Denon DBP-4010UDCI - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1244 Old 03-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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^Some options:
First make sure the discs are clean. I use dilute mild dishsoap and inspect the disc with oblique lighting.

Next: compressed air, see this post.

Next: clean the laser lens with a BluRay laser lens cleaning disc as a dirty lens is a likely cause of no-disc error.

Next: Turn the device off and unplug it. As it's OOW, take off the outer casing. This will allow you to see if anything is simply stuck or jammed. Nudge at own risk. While you're there, properly clean the lens while the player is open. The lens should be cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and a cotton swab. If no joy, take your player in for service but I'd not buy an expensive HDMI board without a very good explanation as to why.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #992 of 1244 Old 03-28-2012, 09:54 AM
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I have had the unit apart. The drive is pretty encased and I don't think anything is jammed. It will play any regular dvd, cd, said, dvd-a. Tried lens cleaner. I posted about the compressed air. Worked for a while. It's just waiting for the repair joint to get back to me now...
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post #993 of 1244 Old 03-28-2012, 09:54 AM
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I have had the unit apart. The drive is pretty encased and I don't think anything is jammed. It will play any regular dvd, cd, sacd, dvd-a. Tried lens cleaner. I posted about the compressed air. Worked for a while. It's just waiting for the repair joint to get back to me now...
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post #994 of 1244 Old 03-28-2012, 04:21 PM
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Is anyone having trouble with the "Star Wars: The Complete Saga" blu ray discs? Every 30 mins or so I get pixellation/blocking and have to restart the machine, then can watch for another 30 mins and restart, etc. I have the latest firmware.

Thanks
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post #995 of 1244 Old 03-28-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greensonor View Post

I posted about the compressed air. Worked for a while....

He-he, sorry, I was rushed and hadn't noticed you had posted that helpful tidbit. See what happens when I try to hold down a day job and post on the forum at the same time...we'll hope for the best.

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post #996 of 1244 Old 04-21-2012, 03:33 AM
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Hi everyone,

am interested in picking up one of these and was thinking of pairing it with a Denon AVR. I have a lot of SACDs and was a little concerned about this note in the user manual (page 14 audio signal via HDMI and page 24):

Quote:


Super Audio CD audio signals are output at 44.1 kHz 16-bit.

So if I set it up to pass DSD from the DBP-4010UD to an Denon AVR that can receive it I would only get 44.1kHz and not native DSD (1 bit 2.8224MHz)?

Is there a way of confirming what is the bit rate from SACD's on the DBP-4010UD via HDMI.

Thanks in advance. Cheers.

Tony
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post #997 of 1244 Old 04-21-2012, 03:54 AM
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What Denon AVR model? If it is a DenonLink3 (or 4) capable model then you'll absolutely want to use the DenonLink connection between them which bypasses any such limitation and takes full advantage of the best the player offers.

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post #998 of 1244 Old 04-21-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

What Denon AVR model? If it is a DenonLink3 (or 4) capable model then you'll absolutely want to use the DenonLink connection between them which bypasses any such limitation and takes full advantage of the best the player offers.

AVR-4311CI is the one I was looking at. I thought the Denon Link was only for clock/jitter alignment etc. I didn't think that had anything to do with what the universal player was outputting as a bit rate.

Cheers.
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post #999 of 1244 Old 04-21-2012, 06:56 PM
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That is a fabulous combination for audiophile, as well as videophile, quality IME. I have the 100th Anniv version of both the 4311(AVR A100) and the 4010 (DBPA100) and DenonLink SQ is fab. The actual signal goes through the DenonLink cable for DL3 and that provides the best connection between those units. Bluray uses DL4, in which the DL cable only carries clock info and everything else goes HDMI. I hear a distinct benefit from the DL connection for all music. I don't see or hear the benefit for anytthing Bluray.

I can't explain all the bit rate stuff but the 4010 OM p 17 states DenonLink "supports up to 24 bit 6Ch at 96KHz, 24 bit 2Ch at 192KHz" and p. 50 states "Full spec digital transfer of the audio contents of SACD is possible...by DL3..."

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post #1000 of 1244 Old 04-21-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

AVR-4311CI is the one I was looking at. I thought the Denon Link was only for clock/jitter alignment etc. I didn't think that had anything to do with what the universal player was outputting as a bit rate.

Cheers.

It's one of the limitations of 4010's HDMI implementation. It just doesn't do DSD nor convert DSD to PCM.

You need a matching DenonLink compatible AVR to get DSD decoding (done over the DL cable).
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post #1001 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

It's one of the limitations of 4010's HDMI implementation. It just doesn't do DSD nor convert DSD to PCM.

You need a matching DenonLink compatible AVR to get DSD decoding (done over the DL cable).

Thanks. Cheers.
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post #1002 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

That is a fabulous combination for audiophile, as well as videophile, quality IME. I have the 100th Anniv version of both the 4311(AVR A100) and the 4010 (DBPA100) and DenonLink SQ is fab. The actual signal goes through the DenonLink cable for DL3 and that provides the best connection between those units. Bluray uses DL4, in which the DL cable only carries clock info and everything else goes HDMI. I hear a distinct benefit from the DL connection for all music. I don't see or hear the benefit for anytthing Bluray.

I can't explain all the bit rate stuff but the 4010 OM p 17 states DenonLink "supports up to 24 bit 6Ch at 96KHz, 24 bit 2Ch at 192KHz" and p. 50 states "Full spec digital transfer of the audio contents of SACD is possible...by DL3..."

Thanks. Cheers.
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post #1003 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

It's one of the limitations of 4010's HDMI implementation. It just doesn't do DSD nor convert DSD to PCM. You need a matching DenonLink compatible AVR to get DSD decoding (done over the DL cable).

Ah, that makes sense now. So the only bitstream of DSD is via DL cable. There's no DSD output to SPDIF at all (OM p 15). to And the 4010 sends the decoded DSD in PCM at 44.1/16 at via HDMI (OM p 14).

IMO that is an odd, hobbled feature set. Mebbe the concern was about SACD piracy. But that kinda leaves the target demographic would be folks who either want the analog output or have a DL3/4 capable processor, or who just didn't know the limitations.

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post #1004 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Ah, that makes sense now. So the only bitstream of DSD is via DL cable. There's no DSD output to SPDIF at all (OM p 15). to And the 4010 sends the decoded DSD in PCM at 44.1/16 at via HDMI (OM p 14).

IMO that is an odd, hobbled feature set. Mebbe the concern was about SACD piracy. But that kinda leaves the target demographic would be folks who either want the analog output or have a DL3/4 capable processor, or who just didn't know the limitations.

Exactly. To use this multiplayer for SACD playback you either have to go via analog output or linked to a Denon AVR with DL3/4. Very short-sighted. For this reason I won't buy one as my Oppo can output native DSD at 1 bit via HDMI into the Denon AVR-4311CI.

Another question. With the Denon AVRs (4311-CI or A100) is there an audio hiccup (slight pop) between songs with some/a lot of redbook CDs? I am experiencing this with my Anthem and have seen other new AVRs experiencing similar things (Cambridge, NAD etc.).

Appreciate all the information.

Cheers.
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post #1005 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Exactly. To use this multiplayer for SACD playback you either have to go via analog output or linked to a Denon AVR with DL3/4. Very short-sighted. For this reason I won't buy one as my Oppo can output native DSD at 1 bit via HDMI into the Denon AVR-4311CI.
Another question. With the Denon AVRs (4311-CI or A100) is there an audio hiccup (slight pop) between songs with some/a lot of redbook CDs? I am experiencing this with my Anthem and have seen other new AVRs experiencing similar things (Cambridge, NAD etc.).
Appreciate all the information. Cheers.

The Oppo83SE bitstreaming DSD off SACD into my A100 (4311) sounded very good. But I decided I had to try DenonLink for myself. My results, as posted here and on my dedicated DenonLink thread, were that this Denon player via DL beat the Oppo 83SE HDMI in SQ tests for SACD DVDA and RBCD to the degree that I was VERY glad I took the chance on buying the Denon, and I sold the Oppo. An alternative is to keep the Oppo and get any old DenonLink3 player, like a 3310, for your music discs.

No pop or other hiccup with the Denon or Oppo player into the A100 (4311) IME with any shiny disc format.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #1006 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 02:02 PM
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A positive review about DenonLink by Kal Rubinson in his Stereophile Music in the Round column
here

Excerpted:
"You can only imagine how satisfying it was to be able to listen to SACDs and DVD-As as I and Denon had intended. With Audyssey MultEQxt and the bass management in both player and receiver defeated, SACDs played through DL3 were indistinguishable from Denon's completely analog Pure Direct pathway. Listening this way was suboptimal, because the player's and receiver's bass-management parameters are somewhat different, and the EQ would bias the observations. Nonetheless, my experience shows that there is absolutely no disadvantage to using DL3 instead of the traditional purist arrangement of analog out to analog in. It also says that no price need be paid for getting the ease and sophistication of the AVR-4806 receiver's digital signal processing...
DL3 and iLink were both sonically identical to the Pure Direct pathway..."

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post #1007 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

The Oppo83SE bitstreaming DSD off SACD into my A100 (4311) sounded very good. But I decided I had to try DenonLink for myself. My results, as posted here and on my dedicated DenonLink thread, were that this Denon player via DL beat the Oppo 83SE HDMI in SQ tests for SACD DVDA and RBCD to the degree that I was VERY glad I took the chance on buying the Denon, and I sold the Oppo. An alternative is to keep the Oppo and get any old DenonLink3 player, like a 3310, for your music discs.

No pop or other hiccup with the Denon or Oppo player into the A100 (4311) IME with any shiny disc format.

Thanks for that. Quick question.... don't understand this statement:

Quote:


An alternative is to keep the Oppo and get any old DenonLink3 player, like a 3310, for your music discs.

as my issue was about the Denon universal player output and not the AVR. If I get a Denon AVR to use with the Oppo I won't be using the DenonLink at all.

Cheers.
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post #1008 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

The Oppo83SE bitstreaming DSD off SACD into my A100 (4311) sounded very good. But I decided I had to try DenonLink for myself. My results, as posted here and on my dedicated DenonLink thread, were that this Denon player via DL beat the Oppo 83SE HDMI in SQ tests for SACD DVDA and RBCD to the degree that I was VERY glad I took the chance on buying the Denon, and I sold the Oppo. An alternative is to keep the Oppo and get any old DenonLink3 player, like a 3310, for your music discs.

No pop or other hiccup with the Denon or Oppo player into the A100 (4311) IME with any shiny disc format.

Thanks again for all the information. It is most appreciated.

Re. the SQ... I would think that they should sound exactly the same if coming in via digital stream and using the DACs within the A100. The Oppo does not change the frequency response it just passes exactly the same information as the DenonLink player (1 bit DSD data at 2.8224MHz) into the A100 which then should be applying whatever DSD to analogue conversion it needs. Perhaps there might be a little bit of jitter on the HDMI only bitstream from the Oppo in terms of difference between the two but that would likely be so microscopic (e.g. in the nanoseconds) that it would be impossible to detect.

If this is true, and not to undermine what you have stated, than the DenonLink proprietary signal transmission is better than HDMI. This is interesting and I will have to see if I can find some research material on this in terms of audio quality testing in controlled conditions.

Thanks again.

Cheers.
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post #1009 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 03:33 PM
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^I know, I was very skeptical too. I came to this thread and asked the same sort of questions you are doing. A few folks assured me DL SQ was better but were not reporting what I considered rigorous enough testing. I started a thread, "Does DenonLink really matter?", see here, to elicit more feedback. Some posters were more convincing, and some technical rationale was given.

Though I remained skeptical of DL and was quite happy with the Oppo, when a great deal on a used DBP A100 came along @ 1/2 off, I took a chance so I could run some tests myself. I posted my A/B comparison procedures and results on this thread starting here.

I can't explain exactly why all music formats sound better thru DL than from the Oppo via HDMI in technical terms, though apparently it is at least in part based on reduced jitter. I hadn't known about Kal's review back then, but find it quite reassuring that such a respected reviewer found similar results. I just posted his comments on DL above, with a link to the review.

I'm not trying to sell you anything, just letting you know my results so you can consider your options. That's why I said 4311 + 4010 is a killer combo. And also why I mentioned that some folks get an older Denon DL3 DVD/universal or SACD player (often inexpensive used) for music and also have a separate newer Bluray player hooked up via HDMI for Blurays.

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post #1010 of 1244 Old 04-22-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Exactly. To use this multiplayer for SACD playback you either have to go via analog output or linked to a Denon AVR with DL3/4. Very short-sighted. For this reason I won't buy one as my Oppo can output native DSD at 1 bit via HDMI into the Denon AVR-4311CI.

Except that I've found the DenonLink to be superior to the Oppo (I had the 83/SE and now the 95) over HDMI.

I still use my 4010 for multichannel SACD/DVDA music and only use my Oppo for movies and 2 channel DVDA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Another question. With the Denon AVRs (4311-CI or A100) is there an audio hiccup (slight pop) between songs with some/a lot of redbook CDs? I am experiencing this with my Anthem and have seen other new AVRs experiencing similar things (Cambridge, NAD etc.).

Can't say I've noticed this before on my Denon 4810.
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post #1011 of 1244 Old 04-26-2012, 11:34 AM
 
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I've killed a few hours trying to make DenonLink 4 work with a DVD-4010CI and a AVR-5308A. The AVR-5308A has the latest upgrade (3D etc) and has the latest firmware. The DVD-4010CI has the latest firmware as well.

When I set the 4010CI to DL4, I get multichannel SACDs to light up the DSD indicator on the AVR-5308A and the output on the 5308A is shown as multichannel output. Audio is set to "DLink" on the display with video as "HDMI". I can also send DVD-Audio multichannel audio to the AVR-5308A and the signal shows with the correct frequency and channel numbers on the status display.

When I place a Blu-Ray disc in the 4010CI, I cannot get the third blue light to light-up on the 4010. The audio shows the correct format (DTS-MA this morning) on both the 4010 and the 5308A.

I have HDMI Control set to "On" on the 4010 and 5308A with HDMI Power Control set to "Off" on both. I have Input on the 5308A set to "Auto". For what it is worth, the HDMI signal is input through the HDMI 1 port on the 5308A.

Is there anything else I need to do to get DL4 to work and the little blue light to come on? I'm almost wondering if the light is not working but I don't know another way to verify that the DL4 clock processing is working.

Any suggestions? I'd sure like to get DL4 processing working, particularly since all other DL processing seems to be working properly.

Thanks for any help!
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post #1012 of 1244 Old 04-26-2012, 12:14 PM
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^Hi. I feel your pain. When setting up my DBPA100 (4010) I "searched this thread" for "third blue light" and found this very helpful post which I mentioned here. And if that doesn't work, here's more links to tips.

BTW, I found significant improvement with DL on all non-Bluray music but no difference at all with Bluray SQ or PQ.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi. I feel your pain. When setting up my DBPA100 (4010) I "searched this thread" for "third blue light" and found this very helpful post which I mentioned here. And if that doesn't work, here's more links to tips.

BTW, I found significant improvement with DL on all non-Bluray music but no difference at all with Bluray SQ or PQ.

I believe that clock control will have little (if any) audible effect. The DL improvement is really for DVD-Audio and SACD.

I tried the first link's procedures two times with no luck. However, I then read the link about the Kuro (even though I don't have one). I suspect that if I enable HDMI control on both of the 5308-attached displays, that the third blue light will work. At least I hope so...

Thanks for the links!
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post #1014 of 1244 Old 05-11-2012, 06:46 PM
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Peoples.
I may be best of posting this over on the iRule forum though thought I'd try here first.
Has anyone had any success with getting the 4010 running over RS232 with iRule and a Global Cache GC-100-12?
I've got my Yamaha RX-Z7 working over RS-232 so unit is responding as it should there.

I've made up a cable as follows, from the 4010 spec sheet it's basically straight through.
Global Cache (GC)
GC Pin 2 Rx - 4010 Pin 2 Tx
GC Pin 3 Tx - 4010 Pin 3 Rx
5 - GND - Pin 5 GND

For Devices I'm using the "Denon Blu-Ray RS232" and codes appear to be correct though I'm not 100% sure about the syntax being a nube in this area.

Anyone had any luck or I need to do something else?

As an alternate, I'm happy to control over IP if anyone has got this to work with iRule.
The web interface on the iPhone works perfectly though I dont want to have to jump between Apps.

Appreciate any advice.

Aaron
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post #1015 of 1244 Old 05-21-2012, 04:35 AM
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Been trying to catch up reading this thread as I finally broke down and ordered the DBP-A100 version of the DBP-4010 (on closeout @ 50% off from an authorized dealer). I am looking forward to giving Denon Link a try with my AVR-4311 in a few days when the player arrives...I hope UPS is gentle! My original plan was to wait until fall 2012 for the new line but it appears that Denon is implementing a new "Denon Link HD" that will NOT (according to resident AVS Denon expert jdsmoothie ) be backward compatible with Denon Link 3/4. I will probably have lots of questions in a few days asking for your patience in advance. Thanks!
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post #1016 of 1244 Old 05-23-2012, 03:29 PM
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It's here! Haven't had time to set up but looks and feels great! Time to do more study and reading...
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post #1017 of 1244 Old 05-25-2012, 06:19 PM
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156 min firmware update for 4010, 80% done at the moment, another 40 min to go, wish Denon would upgrade their servers to a faster speed. 4 min update of BE Firmware.
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post #1018 of 1244 Old 05-27-2012, 08:52 PM
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Very impressed so far with my new DBP-A100! Finally made the Denon Link thing happen tonight with RBCD,DVD-A and SACD initial impressions very positive! Doing DL3 now...2 lights! Information posted on this thread was very helpful, thanks to all who shared here. Getting ready to try DL4 and see if I can achieve the elusive 3 light status...
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post #1019 of 1244 Old 05-27-2012, 10:25 PM
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Attachment 247755


this thread helped a lot thanks again!!
LL
LL
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post #1020 of 1244 Old 05-28-2012, 05:05 AM
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^Congrats, you have demonstrated your power to summon the third blu light and are now admitted to the 6th level of Denon arcana.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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