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post #91 of 197 Old 11-17-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

I have moved on. I just ordered my second BR stand alone player. I just thought it would be a good idea for Toshiba. Support those customers that bought into HD DVD and offer something no one else has. What the hell do I know...

Not trying to be a jerk, but HD DVD and BD at the end of the format war were such small blips on the radar it just does not make business sense.

Remember there were only around 1M players sold total. It's hard to know how many of those were sold to unique users.

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post #92 of 197 Old 11-17-2009, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

I have moved on. I just ordered my second BR stand alone player. I just thought it would be a good idea for Toshiba. Support those customers that bought into HD DVD and offer something no one else has. What the hell do I know...

A more realistic approach for a new player would be to integrate their XDE DVD upscaling, which would be a feature no one else has, and would differentiate their model in the eyes of Toshiba loyal brand supporters.

Throw in some streaming features and you have a decent little player, much better than this first effort.
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post #93 of 197 Old 11-17-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

A more realistic approach for a new player would be to integrate their XDE DVD upscaling, which would be a feature no one else has, and would differentiate their model in the eyes of Toshiba loyal brand supporters.

Throw in some streaming features and you have a decent little player, much better than this first effort.

But the problem with that is that the XDE features have been panned by most reviewers and users.

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post #94 of 197 Old 11-17-2009, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

But the problem with that is that the XDE features have been panned by most reviewers and users.

I didn't say it would be good necessarily - just different.

Another logo to put on the box to say that this player is more special than the others.

Besides, maybe they are hard at work improving it....
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post #95 of 197 Old 11-17-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

I didn't say it would be good necessarily - just different.

Another logo to put on the box to say that this player is more special than the others.

Besides, maybe they are hard at work improving it....


Okay, I see your point, but I think consumers would be more interested in seeing Toshiba build-in support for the streaming services.

I agree right now their player is nothing more than a me too effort that is quickly going to end up with all the other sub $150 barebones players.

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post #96 of 197 Old 11-18-2009, 10:17 PM
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I picked up the new toshiba blu ray player. I got it from best buy. I wanted another player because of the problems with the panasonic 80. while I have only had a few freeze problems. I figure this player would help in the meantime. its run a bit faster then the panasonic on some stuff.. its a fine player. there are some stuff that it does better with then the panasonic, but also had problems playing alien from the 9 disc set.. DTS version and also had the same problems playing gladiator and braveheart. I had problems playing the ad/trailers in front of braveheart and gladiator on the panasonic 80. its probably more of a disc problem. I did have the HD-a2 during the format war.

Jacob
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post #97 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

I have moved on. I just ordered my second BR stand alone player. I just thought it would be a good idea for Toshiba. Support those customers that bought into HD DVD and offer something no one else has. What the hell do I know...

It wouldn't be -- far too few potential customers to even begin to be worth the cost of developing, producing, and supporting the product (none of which are cheap). The only way they could make it financially feasible would be to charge so much per unit sold that next to none or none would sell. A definite no-win financial scenario for Toshiba.

What makes sense for them is to produce something basic to get into the market with a highly discountable unit, and then introduce something later that might justify a higher price. As already pointed out, Toshiba has made it clear they're done with losing money on HD DVD. That's what I consider a smart product plan.
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post #98 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

It wouldn't be -- far too few potential customers to even begin to be worth the cost of developing, producing, and supporting the product (none of which are cheap). The only way they could make it financially feasible would be to charge so much per unit sold that next to none or none would sell. A definite no-win financial scenario for Toshiba.

What makes sense for them is to produce something basic to get into the market with a highly discountable unit, and then introduce something later that might justify a higher price. As already pointed out, Toshiba has made it clear they're done with losing money on HD DVD. That's what I consider a smart product plan.

Ok. I understand your logic but then why are companies still making SACD and DVD audio capable players? They are both basically dead formats. Even Sony, the developers of SACD, have dropped it for the PS3 slim.

They are making them because there are still customers out there who want them. If the Oppo BR player didn't support Sacd and Dvd audio do you think it would still be selling as well as it has?

Toshiba could release a very high quality BR player that was also "backward compatiable" with HD DVD. It would be the only player on the shelves that did it. A niche is a good thing to have in a crowded market place.

Anyway, you guys are probably right. I won't comment on this anymore in this thread. Sorry for the hijack.
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post #99 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 12:51 PM
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Sorry, but your comparison doesn't hold. Here's a quote from MusicDirect:
Quote:
We at musicdirect love SACD. Compared to CDs, the music is simply more emotionally involving. The sound stage is wider and deeper, and instruments have a dimension not achievable in the standard CD format. Music lovers will be literally immersed in their stereo or multi-channel performance because of the extended bandwidth capability that DSD offers. The hybrid dual-layer Stereo or multichannel SACD also contains a high quality CD layer. Its backward compatibility makes sure you can enjoy your favorite recording anywhere. Because the CD layer is generally created by downsampling from the DSD master, its sonics are also much improved over the standard CD.

They, among other online vendors, sell a still evolving catalog of SACD titles. The Oppo is priced higher and serves two market places, both of which are willing to spend a few dollars on a suitable player. The market for a combo Blu-Ray/HD DVD player has only been shrinking and HD DVD player purchasers are not generally used to having to spend that much for a player.

Yes, you could potentially spend a bundle for a combo player and pick up the remaining HD DVD titles for fairly cheap. Or you could spend far fewer dollars on a BD only player and put the saved money into those same titles on BD. OR you could spend especially little and pick up an HD DVD player on Ebay ! No point in targeting a niche if you can't make it pay off. Marketing is all about making the manufacturer's investment successful after careful qualification of viable target markets. HD DVD simply isn't!
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post #100 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

Ok. I understand your logic but then why are companies still making SACD and DVD audio capable players? They are both basically dead formats. Even Sony, the developers of SACD, have dropped it for the PS3 slim.

They are making them because there are still customers out there who want them. If the Oppo BR player didn't support Sacd and Dvd audio do you think it would still be selling as well as it has?

Toshiba could release a very high quality BR player that was also "backward compatiable" with HD DVD. It would be the only player on the shelves that did it. A niche is a good thing to have in a crowded market place.

Anyway, you guys are probably right. I won't comment on this anymore in this thread. Sorry for the hijack.

Well again you are overlooking the complexity issue. For SACD and DVD-Audio it is as simple as adding the codec support and some software updates to support those formats. DVD-Audio was built around the same physical disc specification as the DVD-Video format. The SACD disc spec was also very close to the DVD disc spec except they had the ability to put less data intensive Redbook CD on one layer and then use another layer for the higher quality SACD format.

You cannot overlook the fact that the BD spec introduced a revolutionary change in their disc spec. The data layer is nearly on the surface of the disc for all pratical purposes. It is only 0.1mm deep. Where DVD on the otherhand was similar to CD and its first layer was 0.6mm deep. This is significantly different and designing a drive that can easily and reliably read both as well as being 'low priced' becomes a tough engineering challenge.

Again the format is dead. No one is going to sink money into a dual HD format player to make only a few diehards happy. I mean its not like no one made these things at some point, but they were overpriced and glitchy that most consumers never considered them unless they were afraid the war was going to drag on indefinitely.

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post #101 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Here's a quote from MusicDirect

They, among other online vendors sell a still evolving catalog of SACD titles. Sorry, but your comparison doesn't hold. The Oppo is priced higher and serves two market places, both of which are willing to spend a few dollars on a suitable player. The market for a combo Blu-Ray/HD DVD player has only been shrinking and HD DVD player purchasers are not generally used to having to spend that much for a player.

Yes, you could potentially spend a bundle for a combo player and pick up the remaining HD DVD titles for fairly cheap. Or you could spend much fewer dollars on a BD only player and put the saved money into those same titles on BD. OR you could spend especially little and pick up an HD DVD player on Ebay ! No point in targeting a niche if you can't make it pay off. Marketing is all about making the manufacturer's investment successful after careful selection of viable target markets. HD DVD simply isn't!

Good points.

I am basing my point on the premise it wouldn't cost Toshiba much, if anything, to do it. If that isn't the case then I completely agree with you.
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post #102 of 197 Old 11-19-2009, 03:09 PM
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Placing high tech products on the market and providing the necessary infrastructure to give them a chance of success is absolutely NOT cheap. No offense intended, but IMO -- anyone who thinks it would be, simply lacks comprehension of the process by which a product is developed, introduced, and maintained on the market. The prospects of a combo BD/HD DVD player even coming close to recovering the cost of the product lifetime investment is dubious at best (and obviously, that doesn't even consider the issue of profitability, without good prospects of which, no manufacturer in their right mind would even consider initiating a development cycle).
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post #103 of 197 Old 11-21-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

I picked up the new toshiba blu ray player. I got it from best buy. I wanted another player because of the problems with the panasonic 80. while I have only had a few freeze problems. I figure this player would help in the meantime. its run a bit faster then the panasonic on some stuff.. its a fine player. there are some stuff that it does better with then the panasonic, but also had problems playing alien from the 9 disc set.. DTS version and also had the same problems playing gladiator and braveheart. I had problems playing the ad/trailers in front of braveheart and gladiator on the panasonic 80. its probably more of a disc problem. I did have the HD-a2 during the format war.

Jacob

Does anyone know who makes this BDX2000 for Toshiba?

HHGregg has the Toshiba Blu-ray player on Black Friday for $79 (after $20 rebate), is this Toshiba worth It, or should I consider a different brand?

FYI: I also purchased a Toshiba A-2 a few years ago, it was defective, Toshiba customer service was very good with firm replacement, they actually gave me the next model, A-3 I believe, and new firmware. I was "very very" pleased with TOS customer service..!
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post #104 of 197 Old 11-23-2009, 09:25 AM
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Anyone can make a comment about the upscaler on this new B-R Toshiba , is-it good and can it read file type AVI like the SD DVD player .
Thanks.
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post #105 of 197 Old 11-23-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David D. View Post

Does anyone know who makes this BDX2000 for Toshiba?

HHGregg has the Toshiba Blu-ray player on Black Friday for $79 (after $20 rebate), is this Toshiba worth It, or should I consider a different brand?

FYI: I also purchased a Toshiba A-2 a few years ago, it was defective, Toshiba customer service was very good with firm replacement, they actually gave me the next model, A-3 I believe, and new firmware. I was "very very" pleased with TOS customer service..!

it's probably a funai re-badge, which at least means it's road-tested.

toshiba customer support is the second best (to Oppo) i have ever dealt with compared to sony, onkyo, denon, and marantz.
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post #106 of 197 Old 11-23-2009, 10:02 AM
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I don't play any avi files. I am pleased with the upconversion. it could also be my HDTV doing it.

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post #107 of 197 Old 11-25-2009, 07:08 AM
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My local wholesale only distributor has these for eighty-nine bucks without any rebates
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post #108 of 197 Old 11-25-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

It wouldn't cost Toshiba much if any more money to do this. The HD DVD development is already done and no new discs are being released. So they wouldn't have to spend anytime on it. I agree with most here that Toshiba is releasing this player just to have something to bundle with their TVs for this season. I am willing to bet they will release a high end player that they design and it will include HD DVD support. Of course I could be wrong...

Yes, it would. The Combo drives are no longer being made so a new line would have to be created. They had their chance when this launched to make a 'premium' BD player or even a Combo and chose not to. What's left is a POS.
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post #109 of 197 Old 11-25-2009, 08:54 PM
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To those who missed the new flashes let me bring you up to date:

1. Blu-ray players are now a commodity. Why would Toshiba not want to be in a such a market.

2. The only things that matters to the vast majority of buyers of Blu-ray players are price and brand name. Things such as DVD upscaling and streaming video are not even understood by the vast majority of consumers, let alone sought after.

My prediction is that the market for anything other than a basic Blu-ray player will be even more miniscule in the future that it is now. I wish there was something that could get me excited again in this field but I don't see it anytime in the near future.

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post #110 of 197 Old 11-25-2009, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fafner View Post

To those who missed the new flashes let me bring you up to date:

1. Blu-ray players are now a commodity. Why would Toshiba not want to be in a such a market.

fafner

Uhh, that's exactly why Toshiba might NOT want to be in this market. One doesn't make good profits on commodities.
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post #111 of 197 Old 11-25-2009, 10:24 PM
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Uhh, that's exactly why Toshiba might NOT want to be in this market. One doesn't make good profits on commodities.

Uhh...since Toshiba wants to continue to be a "player" in the home theater market, they had no choice but to introduce a Blu-ray player. Actually, one can make excellent profits on commodities (ever hear or sugar, corn, cotton, coal, etc.) especially if they do no product development but simply put their name on an already developed product.

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post #112 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 04:36 AM
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$99 shipped (and no tax) at Newegg today. For a spare bedroom with an exisiting Toshiba LCD it simply can't be passed up. I have an OPPO upconverting DVD player in there now and will keep it as it probably plays 480i disks better than the Toshiba will. In my projector room I have my main blu-ray set up with Panny player but like I said, for $99 how can you go wrong?

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post #113 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by milacqua View Post

$99 shipped (and no tax) at Newegg today. For a spare bedroom with an exisiting Toshiba LCD it simply can't be passed up. I have an OPPO upconverting DVD player in there now and will keep it as it probably plays 480i disks better than the Toshiba will. In my projector room I have my main blu-ray set up with Panny player but like I said, for $99 how can you go wrong?

How about $79.97 this morning from Amazon.com (free shipping and no sales tax save for Washington state). That's amazingly cheap. I'm not in the market for a BR player, but this is too good to pass up. I wonder if it will be as good as the basic Sylvania and Maganavox (since it seems to be a Funai)? I would imagine Toshiba will be pretty good about firmware updates when needed.

Edit: pulled the trigger on that one. I'll have it for Blu-Ray and my XDE-600 for upconverting SD-DVDs with the terrific visual enhancements it has. Both for $150. Meh, not bad I suppose.
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post #114 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeffredo View Post

How about $79.97 this morning from Amazon.com (free shipping and no sales tax save for Washington state). That's amazingly cheap. I'm not in the market for a BR player, but this is too good to pass up. I wonder if it will be as good as the basic Sylvania and Maganavox (since it seems to be a Funai)? I would imagine Toshiba will be pretty good about firmware updates when needed.

Edit: pulled the trigger on that one. I'll have it for Blu-Ray and my XDE-600 for upconverting SD-DVDs with the terrific visual enhancements it has. Both for $150. Meh, not bad I suppose.

OMG! I checked Amazon too and they had it for something like $137 when I looked. I am in the process of trying to cancel Newegg and jump on Amazon - I hope I can do it. Thanks for the head's up as this is incredible.

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post #115 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 08:52 AM
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Well, things are so busy today that Newegg puts you on hold forever so I can't get them by phone and their chat is booked too. I have to lines open to them but I'll never get through. They do not have a cancel order on line the way Amazon does. Oh well, I paid twenty bucks more than I should have but it is still a deal.

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post #116 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 08:57 AM
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I snatched one up at 79.97, good deal!
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post #117 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 09:00 AM
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Went to hhgregg to get mine at 330 this morning LOL. Can't wait to use it today, first BD is "Night at the Museum" :-D

Proud 6020FD owner.
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post #118 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onykonewb View Post

I snatched one up at 79.97, good deal!


Indeed it is! I finally got through to Newegg and cancelled the order for $99 and once I got it confirmed via email (which much to their credit only took a minute or two) I immediately ordered the $79 one from Amazon.

I know talk about prices and vendors are frowned upon on the forum but this is the deal of the century for a newly issued blu-ray player from a major electronics manufacturer. As long as you don't need all the bells and whistles available on more upper end players, I can't imagine any blu-ray player ever beating this deal on a dollar for dollar basis.

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post #119 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 09:42 AM
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Wow, its over already and the price is back up to $138.72. Glad some of us here got to take advantage of that deal.
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post #120 of 197 Old 11-27-2009, 12:31 PM
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I tried to get it at the $79 price, then it said $138 then I checked back later and it was $79 again and the wife had $10 GC from Swag Bucks and free shipping w/o tax. $69 for one is cheaper then I was thinking I would be able to get one for. I will be giving it as a gift, hopefully it will last a while.

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