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post #91 of 1291 Old 10-10-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Wesley,

I clicked on your remote link in your sig. You've got a 9910! That's my favorite remote of all time. You realize the S350 upgrade already has all the functions, including eject, right? Are you running the extender? You can get a ton of extra memory and really make that 9910 run circles around harmony with the extender. But if you get a harmony, you won't need your chart anymore.

I've had the URC-9910 (new version with better directional buttons [have older version still too]) since it was first released many years ago. It's starting to show its age though.

I went ahead and got a Logitech Harmony 610 remote from Wal-Mart. I finished setting it up yesterday and really like it. The better screen and activities make things like 'Listen to XM' and 'Listen to iPod' much easier and possible for others to understand. Digging the colored keys. The IR signal seems very strong. Also, the programing via custom software and USB cable is much slicker than JP1'ing. I plan to get another 610 to replace my URC-8810 I use in my secondary setup. I've watched the Harmony remotes for years now and only now gave one a try. I really like the more advanced/expensive versions but the 610 is plenty for what I need.

I do appreciated that Sony has kept the IR codes the same between the S350, S360 and N460. It's made things much easier.
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post #92 of 1291 Old 10-10-2009, 09:34 AM
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I have harmony and JP1 as well. My JP1 is still indispensable for adding discretes missing from the harmony database. It's pretty complete, but I run across missing discretes now and then, especially for newer devices. So keep your 9910 and cable handy for teaching purposes.

I have a harmony 360 with colored buttons. I went so far as to dye the buttons on my 9910 before I got the harmony. With harmony, the family understands the remote and I don't need any cheat sheets. The only things I miss from JP1 are big macros and fast macros. Those are hard to do on harmony.

Sony is really good about using the same set of codes across many devices. They do it with their tv's too.
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post #93 of 1291 Old 10-10-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

I'll go through what all I'm seeing on the player now . . .

Wesley, you are a saint! Thank you for posting that exhaustive list of streaming options! After a long and arduous personal sojourn over choosing between either a new PS3 "slim," or a new, stand-alone N460, I've finally decided on the N460 as my very first Blu-ray player purchase! I'm ordering one from sonystyle.com tonight, along with my first Blu-ray editions of Blade Runner, 2001, T2, etc. from Amazon. I'm sure I'll have many more N460 questions to clutter this thread with in the coming days . . .

[For those still on the PS3/N460 fence, my comparison hit-list is posted here].

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post #94 of 1291 Old 10-11-2009, 01:29 PM
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Does anyone have SD Up-conversion opinions for the N460 ?

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post #95 of 1291 Old 10-11-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msarp View Post

Does anyone have SD Up-conversion opinions for the N460 ?

I also posted the same question and nobody seem to have an opinion. If it's like the 350/360, should be nothing to brag about.

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
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post #96 of 1291 Old 10-11-2009, 07:33 PM
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A little help, please?

I am making a jump to hyper speed, moving from 1990-ish era SD TV with a VCR to a new set-up with 1080p PJ, Denon 790 AVR and - next, some sort of Blu-ray player. I'm feeling like I did when I first moved to France for college and realized how much I had to learn about French. Agh!!

OK, with that preamble out of the way, I'm trying to figure out if I should go with a dedicated BR player like the N460 or a PS3. I know nothing about gaming, and don't really care one way or another for games, but want good BR playback for movies and upconverting (if that's the right word) for SD DVDs, plus an ability to access the internet for future upgrades and the like.

All my equipment will be in a central equipment closet, including both phone and internet access, so I don't even know if it's that important that my BR player have internet access. Having never put all these pieces of the puzzle into operation yet, I'm more than a bit confused.



Can anyone clarify for an old fart trying to catch up to the present a couple things:

1. If I'll already have all the equipment in a central location with internet access & access to my home computer network & NAS, does it even matter if my BR player can go online??

2. Aside from the games available on the PS3, what would I give up by going with a dedicated BR player like the N460?

3. Why does this have to be so complicated?

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes a minute to help out this old fart.


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post #97 of 1291 Old 10-11-2009, 08:06 PM
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1. No
2. Nothing
3. Blame this site
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post #98 of 1291 Old 10-12-2009, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

I'm trying to figure out if I should go with a dedicated BR player like the N460 or a PS3. I know nothing about gaming, and don't really care one way or another for games, but want good BR playback for movies and upconverting (if that's the right word) for SD DVDs, plus an ability to access the internet for future upgrades and the like.

Hanesian, I feel your pain! I only just decided to upgrade from upconverting SD DVD players to my very first Blu-ray player myself. Last Friday, I spent several hours researching the very same two products your deciding on. I wrote up a fairly detailed summary of the pros and cons of both the new, "slim" PS3 and Sony's new stand-alone, "network player," the BDP-N460. You can find it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

1. If I'll already have all the equipment in a central location with internet access & access to my home computer network & NAS, does it even matter if my BR player can go online?

If you already have web browsing through your existing HT computer set-up, then, not really (the PS3 has a full-function web browser; the N460 doesn't). But for watching streaming content from Netflix, Hulu, and other providers, a definite YES! Not sure if you're fully aware of this feature, but kinda the whole big deal about the new N460 is that by connecting it to the internet, it allows you to watch streaming video content from Netflix and other providers. This is possible with a PS3, but requires a host PC to do it. The N460 does it right out of the box, just by plugging an Ethernet cable into it.

On the PS3 side, one significant advantage of having it connected to the internet is that you can receive firmware updates. Another benefit of a PS3 for those who store their HT gear hidden in cabinets, is that you would be able to control the PS3 through walls via its built-it Bluetooth remote controller without the need for installing a remote IR receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

2. Aside from the games available on the PS3, what would I give up by going with a dedicated BR player like the N460?

Mainly, I would suggest, the PS3's fileserving and web surfing abilites, but then you already have that capability with an HTPC (assuming you have it set-up that way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

3. Why does this have to be so complicated?

It's complicated because:

A.) Consumer electronics products are quickly broadening their feature-sets, and many new products have completely blurred the lines among traditional product category definitions (e.g., PS3, iPhone, etc.). More features, more options, more decisions.

B.) You want the most bang for your buck. You don't want to buy product 'X,' only to realize that after reading a few threads, you could've gotten 'Y' for only $50 more, or that you just ordered the "Sony BDP-X100," only to find out that the way more bitchin' "BDP-X200" is coming out next week for the same price. At least, you wanna hit the product early-to-midway into its product life cycle. Both the new, "slim" PS3 and the N460 were only very recently introduced, so they're both good picks in that regard.

C.) Different consumers have different needs. Just because product 'X' does "all this stuff," doesn't necessarily mean that you will actually use or need all that stuff, and doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will perceive it in the end as actually being "better" than product 'Y' for your particular needs. Weigh the feature sets, then decide which suits your preferences and usage best.

Good luck!

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post #99 of 1291 Old 10-12-2009, 07:01 AM
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Thanks a lot for your detailed and helpful response, Level4, and that link to your pros & cons. I appreciate it. And thanks to ObD for your succinct help as well. I'm sure I'll figure this out once everything is set up and I can test it out, but I'm not quite there yet - still finishing the HT room (gory details via my signature link) and awaiting delivery of some of the equipment.

Sounds to me like I'll have the fileserving & web browsing capability via my current home network, especially since the patch panel is in my central equipment closet with all the new AV equipment with a Harmony IR remote, and since I'm really not into gaming (and how the heck would I even connect those bloody controllers to the PS3 unit in the EQ closet at the back of the room?) the main functionality I'd be giving up with this BR player vs. the PS3 would be firmware upgrades, and in exchange I'd have a simpler, more straight forward set up for streaming movies as well. If I understood that correctly, I think the N460 makes a lot of sense for me.

Thanks again for giving the Old Fart a hand. Every day in every way, I'm getting better and better.

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post #100 of 1291 Old 10-12-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVEL4 View Post

On the PS3 side, one significant advantage of having it connected to the internet is that you can receive firmware updates. Another benefit of a PS3 for those who store their HT gear hidden in cabinets, is that you would be able to control the PS3 through walls via its built-it Bluetooth remote controller without the need for installing a remote IR receiver.

The N460 firmware can be upgraded via its internet connection.

All the other gear in an HT cabinet requires IR so likely a remote IR receiver is needed anyway.
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post #101 of 1291 Old 10-12-2009, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObD View Post

All the other gear in an HT cabinet requires IR so likely a remote IR receiver is needed anyway.

Yup. That's the plan. Thanks.

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post #102 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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Can't wait for the features to be 'real'...
Finally a Slacker Radio access streaming DVD. Pandora is cool but IMO falls short of what can be created with Slacker.


"good things will come to you in due time"
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post #103 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msarp View Post

Does anyone have SD Up-conversion opinions for the N460 ?

To me, DVDs look soft as they do on the Sony BDP-S360. Of course watching Blu-rays also makes DVDs look soft.

However, I played both SD and HD HQV benchmark discs in the BDP-N460 (set to 1080p output to evaluate it's video processor and not my HDTV's) and here is what I found on my display (Samsung HL-S5679W which is a 1080p/60Hz LED DLP HDTV) [YMMV]:


HQV Benchmark DVD Version 1.4 NTSC (SD)

Color Bars - Pass
Noise Reduction - Fail
Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test 1 - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test 2 - Fail
Detail Test - Fail (Soft)
Film Detail Test - Fail (player took a second to 'lock' in before the moire in the stands disappeared)

Cadence Tests
2-2 30fps Video - Fail
2-2-2-4 DVCAM - Fail (lost 'lock')
2-3-3-2 DVCAM - Fail
3-2-3-2-2 Vari-Speed Broadcast - Fail
5-5 Animation - Pass
6-4 Animation - Pass
8-7 Anime - Pass
3-2 24 fps Film - Pass Marginally (to my non 24-fps HDTV)
Mixed 3-2 Titles - Fail


HD HQV Benchmark Blu-ray Version 1 (HD)

Color Bars - Pass
HD Noise Test A - Pass
HD Noise Test B - Pass
Video Resolution Loss Test - Pass
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test A - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test B - Fail
Film Resolution Loss Test - Pass
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post #104 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 06:03 PM
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Wesley, thanks for posting your results. I wonder if this will be a step up, down, or sideways from my Panasonic BD30?
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post #105 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

To me, DVDs look soft as they do on the Sony BDP-S360. Of course watching Blu-rays also makes DVDs look soft.

However, I played both SD and HD HQV benchmark discs in the BDP-N460 (set to 1080p output to evaluate it's video processor and not my HDTV's) and here is what I found on my display (Samsung HL-S5679W which is a 1080p/60Hz LED DLP HDTV) [YMMV]:


HQV Benchmark DVD Version 1.4 NTSC (SD)

Color Bars - Pass
Noise Reduction - Fail
Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test 1 - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test 2 - Fail
Detail Test - Fail (Soft)
Film Detail Test - Fail (player took a second to 'lock' in before the moire in the stands disappeared)

Cadence Tests
2-2 30fps Video - Fail
2-2-2-4 DVCAM - Fail (lost 'lock')
2-3-3-2 DVCAM - Fail
3-2-3-2-2 Vari-Speed Broadcast - Fail
5-5 Animation - Pass
6-4 Animation - Pass
8-7 Anime - Pass
3-2 24 fps Film - Pass Marginally (to my non 24-fps HDTV)
Mixed 3-2 Titles - Fail


HD HQV Benchmark Blu-ray Version 1 (HD)
Color Bars - Pass
HD Noise Test A - Pass
HD Noise Test B - Pass
Video Resolution Loss Test - Pass
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test A - Fail
Diagonal Filtering "Jaggies" Test B - Fail
Film Resolution Loss Test - Pass

Nice job Wesley and thanks for helping ! I think I will keep my PS3 Slim for now. I use it solely for a Blue-ray player w/ my Denon 1910 and Panny 54G10 Plasma. I am one of those who own a PS3 and am waiting for a Blue-ray player in the $300 range that would be a upgrade worth making. I thought the s460 might be the one. The samsung 2550 is a great player but in buggy as hell.

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post #106 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 06:50 PM
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Update available, M02.R.094 SW. Installed via internet without a hitch.
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post #107 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
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Update available, M02.R.094 SW. Installed via internet without a hitch.

What does it add/fix?
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post #108 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObD View Post

Update available, M02.R.094 SW. Installed via internet without a hitch.

Thanks for the update, I'm downloading it now and will check it out. Just like PS3 updates (and my luck), I'm always doing something on the device when an update actually hits.

Update: no change to Netflix, Fear.net or Slacker at this time. No XMB changes that I can see.

HOWEVER, the Sony site states clearly: This utility updates the BDP-N460 firmware to version 094 and enables the Blu-ray player to receive the Slacker Personal Radio Streaming Service.

Will try again several times.

On the player's Activate Advanced Features option it says the player is successfully registered and to go to the Sony Essentials site, I link the Slayer service to the player there and I'm sent to the Slacker site to sign in there and it says the account is successfully link but still no Slacker Radio. Will keep trying.
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post #109 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

What does it add/fix?

Fixed some inconsistent volume issues I was having in the net apps.
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post #110 of 1291 Old 10-13-2009, 08:15 PM
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Well, everything appears to be correct but I couldn't get Slacker Radio to work. Will try again tomorrow.

If anyone has any luck with it, please post here. Thanks.
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post #111 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 01:01 AM
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Hmmm . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

2-3-3-2 DVCAM - Fail

Again, thanks for posting your rather comprehensive round of test results data on the N460! Of particular interest to me is the failing cadences. I have a Sony DSR450 24p (23.976) DVCAM camera that I use to make short films with, and I shoot exclusively in its 2-3-3-2 mode. In fact, most people I know who shoot in 24p also tend to shoot in 2-3-3-2. What does a "failed" 2-3-3-2 cadence look like? Is the motion stuttery or otherwise motion-artifacted somehow? Thanks!

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post #112 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

It's the same speed as the Sony BDP-S360 which is slower than the PS3 and Samsung BDP-1590. I don't know how much faster the S360 is than the S350 if at all.

Wesley, thank you again for all of your informative contributions. So . . . does that mean that Sony's claim of its "six-second, Quick Start," start-up from power-up, is a ruse? Or does the PS3 actually start-up faster than six seconds?

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post #113 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVEL4 View Post

Wesley, thank you again for all of your informative contributions. So . . . does that mean that Sony's claim of its "six-second, Quick Start," start-up from power-up, is a ruse? Or does the PS3 actually start-up faster than six seconds?

No, that's a different settings that covers start-up of the player from turning on the power and playing a disc. If you set it on, the player stays in a sort of standby state in which the fan stays running making a power up quicker. I personally leave it off and wait the few extra seconds after turning the player on. Once the player has been on past this power on phase, disc load (based on their content and complexity) about the same speed as the S360 and slower than the PS3 (from what I experienced).

P.S. Also, the player will consume more wattage while off with this feature set to ON.
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post #114 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVEL4 View Post

Hmmm . . .



Again, thanks for posting your rather comprehensive round of test results data on the N460! Of particular interest to me is the failing cadences. I have a Sony DSR450 24p (23.976) DVCAM camera that I use to make short films with, and I shoot exclusively in its 2-3-3-2 mode. In fact, most people I know who shoot in 24p also tend to shoot in 2-3-3-2. What does a "failed" 2-3-3-2 cadence look like? Is the motion stuttery or otherwise motion-artifacted somehow? Thanks!

About the cadence tests: they're only on the SD disc and they are all the same 16:9 clip (no test patterns) of a man at a diner counter reading a newspaper and having coffee and another man walks up and is handed the paper. You are asked via prompts and arrows to see if you can make out any jaggies/distortion in the newspaper and cup of coffee. I'm no expert at critiqing video by any means but I followed the instructionns on the disc best I could which is why I put the YMMV stipulation at the start. Also, a 24fps HDTV may have a better time of it, I don't know.
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post #115 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 05:01 AM
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Tried Slacker Radio this morning before going to work: no luck.
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post #116 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 04:59 PM
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Slacker radio now works.
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post #117 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 05:01 PM
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I can confirm it too. Just tried in a minute or so after you (posting) and getting off work! Thanks. I didn't have to do anything else so everything must have been setup correctly it's just the service started up sometime today.
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post #118 of 1291 Old 10-14-2009, 05:34 PM
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First going to Slacker Radio shows a list of the following folders:

Recently Played - can include your 'Stations' created on a PC

Slacker Spotlight
- Next Big Nashville
- FOX Fringe - Dr. Walter Biship
- Street Scene 2009
- Blackberry at SXSW 2009
- Michael Jackson Tribute
- Pop Icons

Top Stations
- Today's Hits
- '80s, '90s & Today
- Hip Hop/R&B Hits
- Halloween
- New Country
- Alternative
- Rock
- Classic Rock
- Soft Hits
- Smooth Jazz
- Comedy [Explicit]
- Indie Chill

Alternative
- Alternative
- Adult Alternative
- Alternative Hits
- Singer-Songwriter
- Indie
- Indie Hits
- Indie Chill
- Alternative Chill
- Alt. Hard Rock
- Party Alternative
- '90s Alternative
- '80s Alternative
- Modern Punk
- Street Punk

Blues
- Blues
- Modern Blues
- Traditional Blues

Classical
- Classical Hits
- Classical Hits Light
- Movie Music/Scores

Comedy
- Comedy [Explicit]
- Comedy

Country
- Country
- New Country
- Country Hits
- Classic Country
- Party Country
- Outlaw Country
- Alt. Country
- Bluegrass
- Americana

Electronic/Dance
- Electronic
- Electronic Hits
- Indie Electronic
- Trance
- House
- Breaks/Drum & Bass
- Chill
- Chill [Non-Vocal]
- Club Hits
- Dance Pop
- Disco

Hip Hop/R&B
- Hip Hop
- Hip Hop Hits
- Hip Hop/R&B
- Hip Hop/R&B Hits
- Party Hip Hop/R&B
- '90s Hip Hop
- Old School Rap
- R&B
- R&B Hits
- Classical Soul
- Soul Jams
- Funk

Hits
- Today's Hits
- '80s, 90's & Today
- Soft Hits
- Love Songs
- Party Hits
- Oldies
- Hits of the 2000s
- '90s Hits
- '80s Hits
- '70s Hits
- '60s Hits
- '50s Hits
- '40s Hits

International
- Reggae
- World
- UK Hits
- UK Indie

Jazz
- Jazz
- Smooth Jazz
- Smooth Jazz [Non-Vocal]
- Classic Jazz
- Classic Jazz [Non-Vocal]
- Modern Jazz
- Contemporary Jazz
- Acid Jazz

Latin
- Spanish
- Spanish Pop
- Tropical
- Regional Mexican
- Reggaeton/Hip-Hop
- Rock En Espanol

Rock
- Rock
- Classic Rock
- Rock Hits
- Hard Rock
- Soft Rock
- Party Rock
- Classic Metal
- Metal
- Party Metal
- '90s Rock
- '80s Rock
- '70s Rock
- '60s Rock
- Southern Rock
- Folk Rock
- Jam Bands
- Progressive Rock

Seasonal
- Halloween
- Mother's Day
- Slow Jamz
- Rock Ballads
- Country Love
- Metropolitan Mood
- Broken Heart
- Holiday Hits
- Holiday Classics
- Holiday Party
- Contemporary Holiday
- Country Holiday
- R&B/Soul Holiday
- Rock/Alt. Holiday
- Dysfunctional Holiday
- Jazz Holiday
- Classical Holiday
- Navidad Latina

Spiritual
- Christian
- Christian Rock
- Gospel
- New Age

Standards/Big Band
- Vocal Standards
- Big Band/Swing
- Broadway Music

Youth
- Toddlers
- Kids
- Teen Pop
- Teen Rock


Pressing Options brings up:
Sort by >
Category >
Home Category
Update List

Pressing Display brings up: details of each category folder.


While playing a song, the Song Title, Artist and Album Title are displayed along with the album cover and artist info.

Controls while playing include Play/Pause, Next (Skip Forward), Up/Down (to scroll artist info text) and Stop (stops song and returns to previous screen); Return - Returns to Previous Page/Folder/Category

The total number of skips available is shown. Mine shows 6. I have the basic version/account.

During playback, pressing Options brings up:
Rate / Un-rate Song as favorite
Ban Song
Ban Artist
Next
Screensaver - black screen with album fading slowly in and out at random positions on the screen
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post #119 of 1291 Old 10-15-2009, 04:43 AM
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Now shipping at Amazon (5 days earlier than their previous 10/20 release date).
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post #120 of 1291 Old 10-15-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

...
Pressing Options brings up:
Sort by >
Category >
Home Category
Update List

Pressing Display brings up: details of each category folder.


While playing a song, the Song Title, Artist and Album Title are displayed along with the album cover and artist info.

Controls while playing include Play/Pause, Next (Skip Forward), Up/Down (to scroll artist info text) and Stop (stops song and returns to previous screen); Return - Returns to Previous Page/Folder/Category

The total number of skips available is shown. Mine shows 6. I have the basic version/account.

During playback, pressing Options brings up:
Rate / Un-rate Song as favorite
Ban Song
Ban Artist
Next
Screensaver - black screen with album fading slowly in and out at random positions on the screen

Awesome. Thanks for the update.

I believe you have the P1590 too right? Can you compare Pandora on that to Slacker on the Sony? The screensaver feature sounds cool, does the Samsung do that? Overall, which has the better/cooler user interface?

Can't wait for Netflix to hit.

Now that this player is shipping from Amazon I hope to see more sellers on the list and get a little price competition for the big Q4 sales season coming up.
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