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Ayre DX-5 bluray player

274K views 2K replies 123 participants last post by  dbphd 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,


I got this picture from my friend who joined the audio fair in Hong Hong a while ago.


I've been waiting for Ayre bluray player for a long time


But don't know anything about its spec and also don't have any more pic from the rear, just this.


Hope Mr.Charles can tell us about it


and as I know this player will be out at the end of this year


I already told a dealer in my country that I would be the first customer in the country for this stuff




 
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#377 ·

Quote:
This second product would have multiple inputs (HDMI and legacy) and then two HDMI outputs -- one for video and one for audio. The audio output would be isolated, making it dead simple to isolate your video and audio systems even with multiple video sources.

How is isolation affected given that all our components have the AC circuit in common. Should we worry about isolating the AC circuits of the projector and SSP from each other using dedicated runs, isolation transformers, or AC filters?
 
#378 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen /forum/post/18134810


I think it will be a very long time (if ever) before it comes to your house.

Ever is a long time. I think it'll be rather sooner than that.

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a) The Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA) has announced a spec, but they haven't actually released it.

Don't have to release it to start designing chips and players. The BDA members have the specs.

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There are no titles you can buy.

There are no displays you can buy.

There are no players you can buy.
"All in good time, my pretty."
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There is no system that has been proposed for broadcasting.
Proposals are being made.
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There is no system that has been proposed for satellite.
DirecTV's doing it this year.
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There is no system that has been proposed for cable.

Similar solution as satellite can be used.
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All systems developed so far require special glasses.

Yes.
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Then even if all of these hurdles are overcome, you will have to replace every single component in your system (display, player, cable box, satellite box).

Pretty much.

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The cost will be far higher. (The talk at CES was that the Blu-Ray players would cost several thousand dollars.)

There's no reason the costs would be dramatically higher once in mass production. Did anyone say why it would cost so much?

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The price of players keeps dropping. And it's ironic that the Oppo at $500 is outselling the Japanese players selling for half the price!

The Oppo does more than those cheaper players, and does it better. Seems only right it should cost a little more.


FWIW, I will never have a 3D system--I cannot see 3D.
 
#379 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen /forum/post/18134810



I think it will be a very long time (if ever) before it comes to your house.


So now they are trying to promote 3D with the hopes that people will line up to buy multi-thousand dollar players and new displays to watch Pirahna - 3D.

Next month Sony will release a player selling for less than $200 that they claim has all the hardware needed for 3D and should become 3D capable with a firmware update they expect to be ready in June or July.


At about the same time the firmware will be ready they will be releasing a series of 3D LCD sets ranging in size from 40" to 60" and priced from about $2000 to $4000. The less expensive sets will need optional glasses and a synchronization emitter while the more expensive ones will come complete with 2 pair of glasses and a built in emitter.


I don't have details on the plans of the other major manufacturers but it is clear they will have similar products.


It is really not surprising to me that these products are not that expensive. The players only need an output capability equivalent of 1080p48 and all the better LCD displays are running at a minimum of 120Hz already.


For front projection is should be easy to add this to the LED lit DLP units.


Now none of this speaks to whether 3D will or should be successful, but it's coming very soon.


As far as the DX-5 is concerned, the best products have always been behind the curve when it comes to the latest features, and that's the way it should be. After all, the reason they are the best is because the manufacturer took the time to do it right, and you can't easily do that and be up to date with the feature set.
 
#380 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18135835


I have some six wall-warts in the system and thought it might be interesting to start upgrading them. I don't have any DIY skills so I wanted to find something as close as possible to turn-key.

Almost anything will work here, as long as it is linear. A switcher is just going to dump a bunch of noise onto the AC line. A Radio Shack wall wart would probably work, but one of the ones you found will work better. The Acarians look good but I couldn't find any schematics and you would have to deal with the exposed AC connection. They do mention a barrier strip cover option, and maybe that's all you need. You don't need the high-performance series, the regular ones are plenty good for this application.


The other one looks like it is made for one specific voltage that matches some of their other products. If that is the right voltage, I'm sure that would work well also. Another option is to make friends with a DIY'er and pay him to build something. Let us know what you get and what kind of differences it makes in your system.
 
#381 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136097


I think this would be a terrific product and outsell the DAC version, assuming retail around $5-6000. It is exactly what the guys in the 20k forum are looking for. I'd recommend three HDMI outs: one for audio, one for video for a direct run to the projector (mainly for BD), and the last for video to a video processor.

Once we get the DX-5 into production, we'll take a look at that. Most of our customers are audio customers. They are quite happy with an HT-2.0 system. The other question is how much money it would save. It it were only 10% cheaper, there probably wouldn't be much point in offering two versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136097


A standalone HDMI switcher that separates audio and video and their respective grounds could also be very popular, in my opinion. Adding the ability to duplicate (split) the video out would make it even more useful.

It would be an interesting product. I'm not sure how many people still use an external scaler and how many people would want to replace theirs. So it would be a bit of a pig in the poke for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136097


This caught me by surprise as I had hoped to use the analog and HDMI outs simultaneously. This would make a transport only version even more important.

You still could do that with the main HDMI output that carries both video and audio. It's only when the HDMI audio-only output is activated that the analog audio outputs would shut down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136097


Right now I use your DX-7e DVD transport with one digital out going to the SSP for sides and rears and the other to an external DAC for L/R (I don't use a center). I had hoped to duplicate this with the DX-5 but I now see that the HDMI restrictions will not make it possible.

In addition to the main HDMI output, the AES/EBU output will also provide compressed audio. However, I'm not sure how that works with the lossless formats. When a lossless format is selected on the Oppo (I assume that this done from the disc's menu) will the S/PDIF output a lossy format? If so, then you could still use the analog output for the front channels and either the main HDMI or the AES/EBU output for the other channels.


(Sorry, I've never played with a Blu-Ray disc. I work from home since my accident and haven't had a chance to fiddle with the player and the plasma that is at work.)


However, the default for the analog outputs is a mixdown of all the channels. We're not sure if we will add a switch that will select just the Front R+L channels. Even if we did, then there would be someone that also wanted to mix the center channel to create a phantom center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136097


There was an "upgrade" firm that modified the Oppo BD-83s so that one could obtain full resolution, unencrypted audio by tapping into the circuit before HDCP was applied. Is this lawful?

I don't think the FBI is going to bust down your front door if you are playing a movie with one of these things...
 
#382 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18136139


How is isolation affected given that all our components have the AC circuit in common. Should we worry about isolating the AC circuits of the projector and SSP from each other using dedicated runs, isolation transformers, or AC filters?

Yep.


But if your components are connected without the galvanic isolation offered by the Ayre equipment, then it doesn't matter.
 
#384 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18136311


It is really not surprising to me that these products are not that expensive. The players only need an output capability equivalent of 1080p48 and all the better LCD displays are running at a minimum of 120Hz already.

"Better LCD displays".... Isn't that an oxymoron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18136311


Now none of this speaks to whether 3D will or should be successful, but it's coming very soon.

Yep. They're desperate all right. Go online and do a search for Sony's last annual report. They are a publicly traded company, so they have to publish it. I don't think you'll need to be a financial genius to see why they are so desperate to make everything you own "obsolete"...
 
#385 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/18136235


Ever is a long time. I think it'll be rather sooner than that.

Roger, I've given up trying to argue with you. You always win...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/18136235


FWIW, I will never have a 3D system--I cannot see 3D.

Sorry to hear that, but I don't think you're missing that much when it comes to movies. Sure Avatar was cool in 3D. But it would have just as enjoyable in 2D. I don't think that I'll ever have a 3D system either. But I still don't have surround sound in my home!
 
#386 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA /forum/post/18139961


The link for the schematic was buried under "Instructions." Here it is in case you are curious:[/url]

Either one is going to be complete overkill for what you are doing. However, if you are replacing several wall-warts, it is quite possible that you could combine the ones with the same voltage onto one supply.


If the "deluxe" model isn't too much more expensive, I would lean toward that simply because it is an all-discrete circuit. The other one uses an IC regulator. But that is going completely over the top...
 
#388 ·
Charles,


"Once we get the DX-5 into production, we'll take a look at that. Most of our customers are audio customers. They are quite happy with an HT-2.0 system. The other question is how much money it would save. It it were only 10% cheaper, there probably wouldn't be much point in offering two versions".



I love listening to 2.0 which is actually 2.2 in my present setup. I also love watching movies and concert videos on Blu ray because of the DTS-MA and Dolby Tru HD lossless formats available for sometime now! That requires 5.1 or 7.1, for myself and I'm sure countless others? The DX-5 will provide that correct? I need a player passing the highest quality video and audio thru HDMI? I would think there are others like me that have grown beyond a HT consisting of 2.0? Have you at all had the opportunity to listen to the new lossless formats Charles? They are both rather nice and IMHO are the perfect codecs for high resolution audio only discs. For those of us already at that point in our personal systems.
 
#389 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp1080 /forum/post/18140599


charles,


"once we get the dx-5 into production, we'll take a look at that. Most of our customers are audio customers. They are quite happy with an ht-2.0 system. The other question is how much money it would save. It it were only 10% cheaper, there probably wouldn't be much point in offering two versions".



i love listening to 2.0 which is actually 2.2 in my present setup. I also love watching movies and concert videos on blu ray because of the dts-ma and dolby tru hd lossless formats available for sometime now! That requires 5.1 or 7.1, for myself and i'm sure countless others? The dx-5 will provide that correct? I need a player passing the highest quality video and audio thru hdmi? I would think there are others like me that have grown beyond a ht consisting of 2.0? Have you at all had the opportunity to listen to the new lossless formats charles? They are both rather nice and imho are the perfect codecs for high resolution audio only discs. For those of us already at that point in our personal systems.

+1
 
#391 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18141371


The HDMI will absolutely pass the True HD and Master Audio signals. It is for optimizing that use that AYRE has worked so hard on the separate clock for the audio only HDMI output. For 2 channel use they want to use the analog out as a superior sounding path.


That's why I'm thinking out loud this Ayre player might work great with my Classe SSP-800. The SSP also has extremely low jitter measurements at it's HDMI input. I really like my CX-7e and hate to part with it! I don't think the Oppo BDP 83 or the BDP 83 SE can match the Ayre sonically for CD playback. The DX-5 would be the logical choice for what I desire. The DX-5 seems to be the only Blu Ray player to have both options for me. When I want to listen to a CD I use the XLR analog out or when watching/listening to Blu Ray I have the HDMI as an my de facto choice. Now if Mr Hansen can just keep the price somewhat reasonable in this ever changing economy.
 
#392 ·
The only downside to this is that if you use the superior sounding audio only HDMI out to feed the Classe, the analog outputs of the Ayre will be deactivated. So you either have to settle for the combined audio/video HDMI out or unplug the Audio HDMI whenever you want to use the analog outs- unless the Ayre engineers can figure out a (menu driven?) workaround for this such as being able to manually deactivate the audio only HDMI circuit.
 
#393 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen /forum/post/18139979


"Better LCD displays".... Isn't that an oxymoron?

Doesn't "LCD" stand for Lousy Color Display?
 
#395 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 /forum/post/18140599


I love listening to 2.0 which is actually 2.2 in my present setup. I also love watching movies and concert videos on Blu ray because of the DTS-MA and Dolby Tru HD lossless formats available for sometime now! That requires 5.1 or 7.1, for myself and I'm sure countless others? The DX-5 will provide that correct? I need a player passing the highest quality video and audio thru HDMI? I would think there are others like me that have grown beyond a HT consisting of 2.0? Have you at all had the opportunity to listen to the new lossless formats Charles? They are both rather nice and IMHO are the perfect codecs for high resolution audio only discs. For those of us already at that point in our personal systems.

There are a handful of really nicely recorded multi-channel audio discs (with or without video content). Whether or not that constitutes something building your system around is a personal decision that only you can make.


But just as bit a problem as the lack of content is the lack of suitable playback equipment. There is no SSP in the world that can hold a candle to the Ayre KX-R or the Audio Research Ref-5 or the Conrad-Johnson GAT, to name but a few.


And if you are going to have 7.1 channels at the same quality level as your main stereo speakers, you are talking about quadrupling your cash outlay. Plus you will either need a dedicated listening room or a divorce!


So for many people, two-channel is the best choice. But if you want multi-channel, then the DX-5 gives you the absolute best multi-channel source there is. I can't help you with the rest of the issues, but that one, at least, is handled.
 
#396 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18141371


The HDMI will absolutely pass the True HD and Master Audio signals. It is for optimizing that use that AYRE has worked so hard on the separate clock for the audio only HDMI output. For 2 channel use they want to use the analog out as a superior sounding path.

Just to clarify, the analog audio outputs will only be disabled if an SSP is connected to the HDMI Audio-Only output and it is powered on.
 
#397 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18141899


The only downside to this is that if you use the superior sounding audio only HDMI out to feed the Classe, the analog outputs of the Ayre will be deactivated. So you either have to settle for the combined audio/video HDMI out or unplug the Audio HDMI whenever you want to use the analog outs- unless the Ayre engineers can figure out a (menu driven?) workaround for this such as being able to manually deactivate the audio only HDMI circuit.

If both the analog outputs and the HDMI Audio-Only output are connected to the same piece of equipment, then you will have a bit of a problem. But most people who want the most out of their two-channel sources will have a high-quality stereo preamp with a processor-passthrough input.


This is done because there is no SSP on the market that sounds as good as a top-flight stereo preamp. Then the two front channels of the SSP are routed through the stereo preamp, and so are the analog outputs of the DX-5. To listen to the analog outputs, just turn off the SSP. To listen to the multi-channel HDMI output, turn the SSP on and this will de-activate the analog audio outputs. All channels will be reproduced by the SSP, with the two front channels routed through the stereo preamp. Make sense?
 
#398 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen /forum/post/18139937


In addition to the main HDMI output, the AES/EBU output will also provide compressed audio. However, I'm not sure how that works with the lossless formats. When a lossless format is selected on the Oppo (I assume that this done from the disc's menu) will the S/PDIF output a lossy format?

No, the S/PDIF standard has not been defined for lossless compressed formats. And since it does not support encryption, it's not likely to happen.
 
#399 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Hansen /forum/post/18143607


There are a handful of really nicely recorded multi-channel audio discs (with or without video content). Whether or not that constitutes something building your system around is a personal decision that only you can make.

Made that decision already


But just as bit a problem as the lack of content is the lack of suitable playback equipment. There is no SSP in the world that can hold a candle to the Ayre KX-R or the Audio Research Ref-5 or the Conrad-Johnson GAT, to name but a few.

True but those manufacturers are all hesitant to produce an audiophile quality processor that sounds good in 2 channel, Classe has. I know there's not enough demand from the high end community.



And if you are going to have 7.1 channels at the same quality level as your main stereo speakers, you are talking about quadrupling your cash outlay. Plus you will either need a dedicated listening room or a divorce!

I've been divorced since 2001! My ex even stated "now you can fix up the room the way you always wanted to"! Built a dedicated room with an all Wilson audio 5 speaker system. No dream killer here!



So for many people, two-channel is the best choice. But if you want multi-channel, then the DX-5 gives you the absolute best multi-channel source there is. I can't help you with the rest of the issues, but that one, at least, is handled.

That's what I'm certainly hoping for Charles, thanks again.
 
#400 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsol /forum/post/18142986


For what it's worth, Panasonic will have a line of 3D plasmas at only slightly higher prices than the Sony LCDs.

Scott is a retailer at one of the best audio/video stores in the country. He often gets invited to "preview" events put on by various manufacturers. He knows more about what's coming than I do.


We've been working on the DX-5 for eight months. It's obsolete before it's even shipped because it doesn't have a feature that doesn't exist for discs that don't exist....



I can tell you that Ayre has the best update program in the business. Every design we have ever produced can be updated to the very latest version for a very fair price. All I can say is that if there are ever more than a handful of titles released that Oppo will no doubt build a player. If there is any way humanly possible to transplant the main Oppo board, we will do it and offer an update for existing players. Remember most of the cost is obviously not in the Oppo board, rather it is in the power supplies, audio circuitry, custom clocks, USB audio input, HDMI audio-only output, et cetera.


But I cannot make any promises, as such a product hasn't been announced, let alone built. As you know, Oppo uses the very best video decoders in the world. None of this "three minutes to load a disc" nonsense. The Oppo provides the fastest loading time of any Blu-Ray player on the market. It also does not exhibit the "dreaded" chroma-upsampling bug. At this time, Oppo and their suppliers are taking a "wait and see" attitude towards 3D, just as they did when the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war was raging. You can't make a great player for a fair price if you are rushing things to market to be the first with some wacky new feature that may or may not sell.
 
#401 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/18143663


No, the S/PDIF standard has not been defined for lossless compressed formats. And since it does not support encryption, it's not likely to happen.

With DVD-Audio, the disc could enforce the S/PDIF output to send a limited-resolution signal. I'm not familiar enough with the new audio formats nor the Oppo player to know if there is enough processing "horsepower" for the player to send the lossless signal out the HDMI and the lossy signal out the S/PDIF at the same time.


I've looked at the Oppo manual twice and it is unclear to me. It implies that it will do this, especially since the DTS formats consist of a lossy "core" that to which extra data is added to make it lossless for HDMI. But Roger is the expert here. I will defer to him or anyone else on this forum that has experience in this regard.
 
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