Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

I have one the SEs here in house.

There are no expensive "high end components" on the Oppo SE output board....except for the DACs. Oppo cannot use seriously expensive parts in a machine at this price point. All the opamps are NE5532s, all the signal filter caps and resistors are inexpensive, all the Electroytic caps have steel leads. They did eliminate all surface mount ceramic .1 bypass caps from the output stage power supplies....this is good, replaced by much better film caps (the grey cubes in the pic). The output stage is basically done according to the schematic that comes form ESS. The power supplies are interesting and use some 5532 op amps as something (yet to be figured out). So, there is lots of possibilities for upgrading by Nuforce, myself and others.

I will be A/Bing with my own standard 83 that has only my $60 MBBM done to it (currently giving away some MBBMs). Should be fun. We shall see, er hear. I imagine the ESS DACs will give a more transparent sound. They have a seriously good reputation.

For $299 you can't expect high end parts used throughout. But for the $299 does this yield acceptable gains in analog performance? Guess you find that out when you have more time to A/B the two players (standard/w MBBM and a SE version).

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post #362 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

The output stage is basically done according to the schematic that comes form ESS.

Thanks, that's really good news as far as I am concerned (I prefer the sound of "textbook" implementations).

I'l' probably get the NuForce version (as soon as they get back to me confirming my order), but it's good to know the stock SE unit does the "right" thing.
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post #363 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Ouch, I stand corrected...did not know of this company, nor have I seen the post where the prices were noted!

Jim,

Not a problem. Reading through the thread from the beginning that post stood out as the numbers are quite high. But to each his own I guess.

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post #364 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Christine Tham View Post

Thanks, that's really good news as far as I am concerned (I prefer the sound of "textbook" implementations).

Yes, I used an ESS 'demo' DAC board for a few months and was impressed with the sound via their stock analog output.

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post #365 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by haverbach View Post

RDGRIMES: That's an excellent idea. Of course Velodyne (my sub) recommends first the RCA connector/cable/LFE input to any user who in fact has a SW/LFE output jack on his receiver or pre/pro, but speaker connections and a built-in varible (80hz to 120 hz)crossover (purely analog) are also provided (as they should be at the more than $1000 price of this Velodyne SPL subwoofer).

Going this route may provide another benefit: use of "Pure Direct Mode" on my Marantz 6003 receiver. Until now I've used the "Stereo" mode, as Pure Direct would also cut out the bass management.

My only question would be: what's the downside? Although having excellent 2-channel stereo is more important to me than the surround, nonetheless the surround and center channel are excellent for movies. Were I to run my left and right speaker wires directly to the subwoofer and the subwoofer speaker outs to the left and right monitors, would I be limiting myself in other ways?

Would I be correct in assuming that when I place the receiver in 2-channel stereo mode, the digital circuits are shut down, but they are active again when I switch to movie/surround mode. If so, then the Oppo-83SE would make sense, as 2-channel stereo would maintain an analog audio path.

Thanks again for your suggestion.

Re: the Marantz. . . if you are in anything other that Pure Direct there is not a direct analog path. Only the Pure Direct has a straight Analog in analog out path. With Source Direct and regular Stereo there is still some digital conversion going on (BM). This is from Marantz. Take it for what it's worth but this is what they have said.

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post #366 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I don't know why someone with HDMI capabilities would consider the SE. I have one on the way and I intend to use/report on its analog output capability for my readers. I would be surprised if it has any significant value for HDMI users but I intend to check it out.

Just considering or using an SE model doesn't mean that one has to abandon HDMI.
For movies and tv, I don't suspect myself ever deviating from HDMI.
However for music, I think there is the potential for improvement with the SE.

Considering what a room's environment entails, I don't think an analog setup from the SE would thrive in something like a 'family room setup'.
However, if your room is a dedicated media/music/theater type room, and there are no limitations for things like room treatments, speaker placement, ect... AND that room is of a size and shape that is mostly uniform and symmetrical, then it can be taylored to provide an optimum experience WITHOUT digital room correction.

Digital audio correction can work wonders, but when it comes to music, I am more of the opinion that what is on the disc is what should be heard. What you want to avoid, is having the room and environment change that experience.
The room corrections and acoustical curve if you will, can be 'man made'.
Set up a room that thrives with a 'direct pure audio' type setup, and the better DACs then take the audio to the next level of transparency and enjoyment.
Of course this all hinges on the premise that what is in the player, is better than what is in your AVR/prepro.

Once a setup like that is in place (easier said than done, I know), then for the latter half of the purpose (movies), something like Audyssey/MCACC can do it's thing to optimize the room for theater sound.

My main goal would be to optimize the sound from the system for music reproduction.
Keeping it real... I already hear (to my ears) a better difference between the dedicated stereo output of the of the BDP-83, compared to the Audyssey curved output of the HDMI from my TX-SR805.
My educated guess is that with the SE, that same difference can be heard as well... only better.
We shall see...

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post #367 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 04:43 PM
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It sounds like Rick already has formed an opinion.
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post #368 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

5532's?!!! Come on Oppo/NuForce, you guys can do better than that. Really disappointing.

As we have yet to see the inners of the Nuforce version, it will be interesting to see if their version is based on the 5532, too.

There are very expensive products using 5532, including the McIntosh MCD500 that also uses the Sabre 9008 and retails for $6500, ASR Amplifier, and some models of MBL also use 5532, a Benchmark DAC1 that I had opportunity to open and look inside uses 5532 as well.

This is just another hyperbole that 5532=not good, and OPAxxx etc automatically=better.
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post #369 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:22 PM
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It has been stated multiple times in this thread that the SE player really only benefits people who strictly use the analog outs, but what if you want to use HDMI for m-ch/movies and the analog outs for 2 channel playback? DSP is important for me with movies, but I would ideally like to have a pure analog path for my 2 ch listening. Is the upgrade worthwhile if you plan on using it this way?

Or would I be better of getting just the 2 channel outputs modded?
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post #370 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

It has been stated multiple times in this thread that the SE player really only benefits people who strictly use the analog outs, but what if you want to use HDMI for m-ch/movies and the analog outs for 2 channel playback? DSP is important for me with movies, but I would ideally like to have a pure analog path for my 2 ch listening. Is the upgrade worthwhile if you plan on using it this way?

Or would I be better of getting just the 2 channel outputs modded?

You certaily COULD benefit form using the 2CH analog output with the upgrade, but it is entirely up to you to decide if it's worth it.
The wise thing to do, may be to hold off a see what some of the reports are here as users start posting their impressions after they receive their SE units.
As of right now, I don't think there has been a user giving their impressions of the sound coming from the anlaog output of the SE...
Only what the inside of the SE looks like.

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post #371 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post

p.s. I agree with many posters here that it's sad that all companies are castrating these SACD players with 2 channel performance only. As of now, Marantz doesn't have a single Mch SACD player, and Sony 5400ES supports Mch only through HDMI, at which point you might as well pick up a far cheaper Oppo model. (hint - not SE version)

You can thank most of the writers of Absolute BS and Placebophile (Kal you are an acknowledged exception) for promulgating the Luddite perception that 2 ch sound is more "musical" than hi-res surround.

It is a shame that we now have something as magical as high-res sound in 6 channels, both SACD and blu-ray, and these bozos prefer to listen to a needle being dragged through a piece of plastic that produces more distortion than a 2 soup cans attached with a string and then polish it off with a tone control that sweetens the sound with even more distortion called a tube stage. Go figure.

Now, can we still be friends?

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post #372 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

I have one the SEs here in house.

There are no "high end components" on the Oppo SE output board....except for the DACs. All the opamps are 5532s, all the signal filter caps and resistors are surface mount cheap Chinese,

It's posts like these that make forums worth visiting. Thanks so much for the info Ric!

Can you tell me if the ES9016 DAC is current output or voltage output? I'm not quite literate enough to be able to tell from reading the diagrams provided by ESS.

I want to know if it's possible to rig a passive I/V stage for this thing. I'm not sure whether I would pay someone to do it, or burn my own house down trying, but a man can dream....
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post #373 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Repdetect View Post

You can thank most of the writers of Absolute BS and Placebophile (Kal you are an acknowledged exception) for promulgating the Luddite perception that 2 ch sound is more "musical" than hi-res surround.

It is a shame that we now have something as magical as high-res sound in 6 channels, both SACD and blu-ray, and these bozos prefer to listen to a needle being dragged through a piece of plastic that produces more distortion than a 2 soup cans attached with a string and then polish it off with a tone control that sweetens the sound with even more distortion called a tube stage. Go figure.

Now, can we still be friends?

Seems a bit harsh, but probably reflects more of what a good number of people are thinking if not saying.
Of course, 2ch sound is still important to many of us with a good stock of CDs, even if it is not the cat's pajamas.
2 channels or more, we all want it to sound GOOD!
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post #374 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Just considering or using an SE model doesn't mean that one has to abandon HDMI.
For movies and tv, I don't suspect myself ever deviating from HDMI.
However for music, I think there is the potential for improvement with the SE.

I am afraid that I do not see any reason to presume a difference.

Quote:


Considering what a room's environment entails, I don't think an analog setup from the SE would thrive in something like a 'family room setup'.
However, if your room is a dedicated media/music/theater type room, and there are no limitations for things like room treatments, speaker placement, ect... AND that room is of a size and shape that is mostly uniform and symmetrical, then it can be taylored to provide an optimum experience WITHOUT digital room correction.

Sure.

Quote:


Digital audio correction can work wonders, but when it comes to music, I am more of the opinion that what is on the disc is what should be heard. What you want to avoid, is having the room and environment change that experience.
The room corrections and acoustical curve if you will, can be 'man made'.
Set up a room that thrives with a 'direct pure audio' type setup, and the better DACs then take the audio to the next level of transparency and enjoyment.

More unassailable statements that, in aggregate, seem to conflict.

Quote:


Of course this all hinges on the premise that what is in the player, is better than what is in your AVR/prepro.

True for some, not for others.

Quote:


My main goal would be to optimize the sound from the system for music reproduction.
Keeping it real... I already hear (to my ears) a better difference between the dedicated stereo output of the of the BDP-83, compared to the Audyssey curved output of the HDMI from my TX-SR805.

Of course. The stock Audyssey curve in the Onkyo is not flat.

Quote:


My educated guess is that with the SE, that same difference can be heard as well... only better.

Why not?

Look. Your philosophy, though reasonable, is not mine and is, imho, based on too many presumptions.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #375 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Repdetect View Post

It is a shame that we now have something as magical as high-res sound in 6 channels, both SACD and blu-ray, and these bozos prefer to listen to a needle being dragged through a piece of plastic that produces more distortion than a 2 soup cans attached with a string and then polish it off with a tone control that sweetens the sound with even more distortion called a tube stage. Go figure.



Quote:


Now, can we still be friends?

Yes, as long as we know who we are.

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post #376 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Yes, I used an ESS 'demo' DAC board for a few months and was impressed with the sound via their stock analog output.

That's generally my experience with eval boards - they tend to sound really good.

Not surprising, because the circuit design has probably undergone extensive simulation/modelling to optimize performance.

For a company like Oppo, if they are following ESS implementation recommendations, that's a good thing, because it means we are likely to get sound quality not too far off spec.

Doesn't mean that a good modder can't improve it, but frankly that modder will need to convince me they have done as good (or better) a job in matching the slew rate for analog reconstruction as the recommended implementation guideline.
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post #377 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

I have one the SEs here in house.

There are no "high end components" on the Oppo SE output board....except f

All the above needs to be done for serious sound. The stock Oppo nor the "upgraded" Nuforce does hardly any of the above......a few better parts does not a shiver bring.

I will be A/Bing with my own standard 83 that has only my $60 MBBM done to it (currently giving away some MBBMs). I bet it will be close......we shall see. Probably tomorrow.

Yes I agree with what you are saying. And maybe you have a incite to what Nuforce uses in there high end systems. But aren't you being a little hasty in saying "upgraded" Nuforce does hardly any of the above......a few better parts does not a shiver bring." Without having one in house?

And yes I was leaning toward your upgrade because of the XLR balanced 2ch analog outs, of course that's saying your XLR outs are truly balanced. However for me to go with a completely 2ch balanced system would have meant a new balanced amp and about $600 in XLR balanced cords. So for now, like you say its a wait and see/hear time.

ss
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post #378 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Just considering or using an SE model doesn't mean that one has to abandon HDMI.
For movies and tv, I don't suspect myself ever deviating from HDMI.
However for music, I think there is the potential for improvement with the SE.

Quote:


I am afraid that I do not see any reason to presume a difference.

What you describe as a presumtion, is explained below. I do already hear a distinct difference between the HDMI output over the dedicated analog stereo output of the BDP-83.
The difference is a more transparent and slightly broader sound stage for the analog output. This is before even taking any Audyssey curve into the equation.





Quote:
Considering what a room's environment entails, I don't think an analog setup from the SE would thrive in something like a 'family room setup'.
However, if your room is a dedicated media/music/theater type room, and there are no limitations for things like room treatments, speaker placement, ect... AND that room is of a size and shape that is mostly uniform and symmetrical, then it can be taylored to provide an optimum experience WITHOUT digital room correction.

Quote:


Sure.





Quote:
Digital audio correction can work wonders, but when it comes to music, I am more of the opinion that what is on the disc is what should be heard. What you want to avoid, is having the room and environment change that experience.
The room corrections and acoustical curve if you will, can be 'man made'.
Set up a room that thrives with a 'direct pure audio' type setup, and the better DACs then take the audio to the next level of transparency and enjoyment.

Quote:


More unassailable statements that, in aggregate, seem to conflict.

I do not understand the "confilction"? Maybe you could elaborate.




Quote:
Of course this all hinges on the premise that what is in the player, is better than what is in your AVR/prepro.

Quote:


True for some, not for others.

How so?




Quote:
My main goal would be to optimize the sound from the system for music reproduction.
Keeping it real... I already hear (to my ears) a better difference between the dedicated stereo output of the of the BDP-83, compared to the Audyssey curved output of the HDMI from my TX-SR805.

Quote:


Of course. The stock Audyssey curve in the Onkyo is not flat.





Quote:
My educated guess is that with the SE, that same difference can be heard as well... only better.

Quote:


Why not?

Why not what?



Quote:


Look. Your philosophy, though reasonable, is not mine and is, imho, based on too many presumptions.

It is not really a philosophy, but more of a realistic scenario that is based off of factual scenarios that have already been proven to be true.
The whole post as it were, is to rebut the notion you propose, that any HDMI based system will outperform any analog based system.
No those are not your exact words, but my interpretation there of.
Such an idea could be battled for centuries, when in reality, in the real world, it all depends on how any particular setup is configured.
In my own setup, with respect to the dedicated analog stereo output of the BDP-83, it does sound better to me than the HDMI output of the same configuration.
Just as well, based on the specs of the DAC in the SE version, so should the same setup potentially sound even better.
You may call this presumption, but it surely is quite a bit more than that IMO, and we shall see how it all pans out as users start posting actual results.

This whole post makes me sound like a "analog is better than HDMI" nut job. However, I absolutely love what HDMI is and the DSP that goes with it. Once again, just trying to keep it real, i think it's possible that there is room for both.

~Dave

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post #379 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

This whole post makes me sound like a "analog is better than HDMI" not job. However, I absolutely love what HDMI is and the DSP that goes with it. Once again, just trying to keep it real, i think it's possible that there is room for both.
[/b]

I agree completely. I am in the same boat, in that I prefer to listen to analog outputs with no post processing.

Realistically though, there's a few caveats: reasonably full range speakers (no bass management required), reasonably flat room (not much benefit from equalisation), reasonably good analog stage (true for BDP-83SE).

In my case, all the above are true for my setup, and in addition I have an old pre pro (Cary Cinema 6) with no HDMI, so it's my only choice.
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post #380 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

The whole post as it were, is to rebut the notion you propose, that any HDMI based system will outperform any analog based system.
No those are not your exact words, but my interpretation there of.

Not his exact words at all. I think he's made it pretty clear that he's talking about higher end HDMI based systems (such Anthem D2v, Denon AVP-A1HDCI, Lexicon, Meridian, etc.) when making statements about outperforming analog based systems.
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post #381 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Not his exact words at all. I think he's made it pretty clear that he's talking about higher end HDMI based systems (such Anthem D2v, Denon AVP-A1HDCI, Lexicon, Meridian, etc.) when making statements about outperforming analog based systems.

Even more than that, I did not make a summary statement that HDMI should be presumed superior. What I was disputing is the distinction drawn between the approaches for music and for movies and using that distinction to justify different configurations for the two. Obviously, if one does not need any of the DSP-based functions, there is no reason to insert them.

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post #382 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Even more than that, I did not make a summary statement that HDMI should be presumed superior. What I was disputing is the distinction drawn between the approaches for music and for movies and using that distinction to justify different configurations for the two. Obviously, if one does not need any of the DSP-based functions, there is no reason to insert them.

Need and want are two different things.
While I personally may prefer a tamed room with more direct sound for music, does not mean that I prefer the same for movies.
It's all a matter of perception and personal taste, which is pretty much the definition of AUDIO in an audio/video setup.

Just to add, I also do not have an ideal setup with my surround speakers (up higher on a downangle), and I feel that HDMI based DSP correction can help that situation.
This is a different scenario than having a separate setup for listening to stereo music in the same room... the limitations do not apply.

Again, with the dedicated analog stereo output from the BDP-83, I hear a more open and transparent sound stage.
Thus I feel it would be a worthwhile investment to use an SE model in the same configuration to improve that scenario for music even more... theoretically.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #383 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

While I personally may prefer a tamed room with more direct sound for music, does not mean that I prefer the same for movies.

Here's the nub. I do not see a reason for different preferences.

Quote:


Just to add, I also do not have an ideal setup with my surround speakers (up higher on a downangle), and I feel that HDMI based DSP correction can help that situation.
This is a different scenario than having a separate setup for listening to stereo music in the same room... the limitations do not apply.

Hard to imagine that you achieve such perfection for stereo and yet choose not to use its advantages for HT. Of course, another difference we have is that, for me, music is mostly multichannel.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #384 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 08:23 PM
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I forwarded Ric's post to oppo and got a reply just a moment ago. Amazing someone is still working there at this late hour.

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We do not comment on mods. There are different mods on the market and it is impossible for us to monitor the quality of work and expertise of the modders. For liability reasons we cannot endorse any modded products.

The BDP-83 Special Edition audio board is a new design around the ESS Saber32 Ultra ES9016 DAC for 2ch and Saber Premier ES9006 for 7.1ch. The followings are a few details about the hardware improvement on the Special Edition:

- The most important change is of course the DAC chips. The 4 DACs per channel configuration for the stereo output is especially helpful to the signal-to-noise ratio performance.

- The output drive stage is of a similar design to the standard BDP-83, which is very good in our opinion to begin with. Some parameters are slightly adjusted to match the personality of the DACs.

- The linear voltage regulators on the audio board use a new design. We use an op-amp as a dynamic servo to remove any potentially remaining ripple from the DC power.

- Board layout and grounding are redesigned around the new ESS DACs' specific requirements to ensure audio quality.

- Mute is performed by relays with gold-plated contacts in the Special Edition instead of by transistors.

- The main switching power supply is improved to provide more reserve power and better isolation for the +/-14V rails dedicated to the analog audio section.

Regarding the parts used, we do not want to directly respond to Mr. Schultz's comments since it is a forum posting not directly addressed to us. However the following items may help straighten the facts:

1. The coupling caps are audio grade parts from a Japanese vendor.
2. The op-amps are NE5532A from a specific TI plant. Our audio engineer told me that the selection of the op-amps are based on evaluation results from listening to TI, National, TI/BB(OPA) and other op-amp parts on the board. Some people may perceive the 5532 as not hi-fi enough, but our selections takes into consideration the application environment. Some other op-amps may have better specs on paper but when used in this specific application the sound quality is not as good.

We have a 30-day return period so customers can listen to it and find out if this is the right player for them. The most one could lose is just the original shipping cost since we pay for the return shipping.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119


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post #385 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Of course, another difference we have is that, for me, music is mostly multichannel.

Yes Kal I am with you Music should listen to as multichannel, Blu Ray, SACDs especially for classical, "Go the Symphony and you will see" Of course you need decent speakers

By the way OPPO rules honesty, Quality and Value what else would one want
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post #386 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Here's the nub. I do not see a reason for different preferences.

What am I to do?... use HDMI for surround duty and analog for the front at the same time?
It's not within my system's capability to produce a superior sound stage with the surround speakers via analog.
Setting up an analog system next to my current, I tried both analog and HDMI. While they sounded different, but not one over the other, when I engaged the Audyssey curve, I preferred that sound.

Not the same situation with the front stage. With the front, when used with the stereo out of the player, I prefer that method to the latter HDMI... especially with the output going directly to a power amp.
Though that method is cumbersome, so I may revert back to routing it through the AVR where it still sounds superior, but not as transparent.

Quote:
Hard to imagine that you achieve such perfection for stereo and yet choose not to use its advantages for HT.

It would only be an advantage if I could produce superior results with the entire surround setup.
Just as well, the limitations with LFE in an analog setup are too restrictive for me.
Due to the somewhat narrow factor of my room, I am very limited on where I can place my subs.
The LFE/bass redirection is what cries for DSP the most.
Without it, LFE is a mess.
HT is nothing for me without LFE.

Quote:
Of course, another difference we have is that, for me, music is mostly multichannel.

I too listen to MCH music, as much as I can when time permits.
This is an area, that currently I am using HDMI with satisfactory results.
However, when I switch that sound over to be downmixed through the dedicated stereo out, it opens right up and sounds great... no surround though.
So it will be somewhat of an experiment to tinker with different scenarios to get my surround music to a higher level of AQ.

Let's also not forget, that the stereo output from the BDP-83, is also a different (better IMO) sound than from the L/R of the MCH analog output.
This is one reason WHY the whole scenario centers around the stereo output from the BDP-83.
Just maybe, with some more room treatments, and the better DACs in the SE model, I may be able to get my music reproduction to that sweet spot.

BTW, I should also mention that I use two sets of side surround speakers. One set for the front row, one set for the rear row of seats.
Audyssey also helps with this setup.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #387 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Tech, since you do not have HDMI inputs, the improved SQ of the Oppo analog upgrade could very well be a good value for you. That is, assuming you have some nice, well-placed speakers and a room that is benign acoustically, so you will be able hear and appreciate the difference. Your model is so old I can't access the OM off the Denon website but I would expect that you have EXT IN analog inputs which bypass the ADC and all digital processing.

Another option might be to put the extra $300 toward a new Denon AVR with HDMI and sophisticated Audyssey room EQ, like a 3808 (probably around $1000) or a 2809 (probably around $750). You would certainly enjoy the HiDef codecs and SACD DSD as 2809/Oppo owners are unanimous in praise of the Oppo's performance via HDMI. We are awaiting data on whether the Oppo analog upgrade offers significant (or even audible) benefit for these mopdern AVR's. This is very much a YMMV situation.

Oh, this thread may be of interest to you as it touches on some similar issues:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=841338

I have the M&K Sound LCR-750 THX Certified 5.1 Speaker System w/V-1250 THX Powered Subwoofer, very detailed sounding speakers! You got me thinking about buying a new receiver, but will either of those AVRs be capable of driving my front three speakers (LCR) at 4 ohm loads? I do have the EXT IN analog inputs, also I use a sound level pressure analog meter that I bought at Radio Shack to calibrate my speaker system. Thank you for your reply SoundofMind, you've been very helpful!
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post #388 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 09:31 PM
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I am interested in getting the upgrade; however, my OPPO is region free modded. Will it be okay to send to them as such or should I revert back to the OPPO Region A before sending it in? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
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post #389 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I don't know why someone with HDMI capabilities would consider the SE. I have one on the way and I intend to use/report on its analog output capability for my readers. I would be surprised if it has any significant value for HDMI users but I intend to check it out.

?? Kal, I'm surprised that you don't take into account folks like us that use the Oppo for both 2 channel SACD/DVD-A and for 5.1 mch music and 7.1 movie use. For 2 channel we send the main stereo analog outs to our high-end stereo preamps, and have a dedicated 2 channel setup. For HT and mch music we send HDMI to our DSD-capable surround processors (and use the HT bypass in our stereo preamps for the fronts in that HT or mch mode). For this reason alone the $300-400 additional for the SE is easily justifiable...assuming it's a good implementation (just cuz they're better DACs doesn't mean the analog stages will sound better).

My SE arrives Monday, and I'll A/B it with the standard. Then I'll decide whether it will be modded (Modwright, EVS, etc). Nuforce is a possibility, too, of course, but I've had huge success with Dan (Wright) for many years.

"We're all bozos on this bus" - F.T.
 

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post #390 of 5806 Old 11-12-2009, 09:35 PM
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Dan said if you use HDMi and send every thing bitstream and have a good pre/pro it is not worth it to upgrade or Modwright it
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