Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris_B View Post

Does anyone know the output voltage from the 83SE (or just the 83)? While I am preamp shopping, I may match the 83SE's 2-channel analog outputs with a passive volume control.

Thanks,

Chris

I don't see that in their Specifications. Best ask Oppo tech support directly.
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post #542 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_B View Post

Does anyone know the output voltage from the 83SE (or just the 83)? While I am preamp shopping, I may match the 83SE's 2-channel analog outputs with a passive volume control.

Thanks,

Chris

I emailed OPPO support asking the same question some time ago. The answer back was:

"The 7.1 multi-channel analog outputs sync at 2.0V, while the dedicated stereo output is 2.3V."

fteixeira
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post #543 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 12:54 PM
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Thanks. 2.3 volts is plenty of juice for my amps and speakers.
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post #544 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

When the day comes that we can get binaural sources, I will acknowledge it even though I still will hate having [headphones] on my head.

Amen. I hope that day has not already passed. It has taken me many years and much effort to accumulate a small collection of binaural and nearly-binaural recordings. The recent Zenph re-performances provide some hope for the future, but, as much as I would like to, I don't see a general market trend toward binaural. On the other hand, the recent 2L blu-ray audio recordings provide a spectacular surround sound experience that is quite similar to binaural but does not require headphones.

Although they are all relatively uncomfortable, headphones are still the only way to hear true stereo (via binaural recordings). And there are fringe benefits: no fancy processing or room treatments needed. Hook up a Buttkicker and you even get the visceral low end. I connect my headphone amps to the analog stereo outputs of the BDP-83 (and Sony XA5400ES and Cambridge 840C).

-----------------

Kal, have you had the opportunity to compare the analog output from CD of these three players?
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post #545 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fteixeira View Post

I emailed OPPO support asking the same question some time ago. The answer back was:

"The 7.1 multi-channel analog outputs sync at 2.0V, while the dedicated stereo output is 2.3V."

fteixeira

Oppo says that higher voltage outputs are much preferred by audiophiles.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #546 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foothill View Post

Although they are all relatively uncomfortable, headphones are still the only way to hear true stereo (via binaural recordings).

Not the only way. The other way is via multichannel recordings and systems, of course.

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Kal, have you had the opportunity to compare the analog output from CD of these three players?

Only the first two.

Kal Rubinson

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post #547 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not the only way. The other way is via multichannel recordings and systems, of course.

Only the first two.

I don't suppose you've got your hands on a SimAudio 750D to compare as well?
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post #548 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by overcast View Post

I don't suppose you've got your hands on a SimAudio 750D to compare as well?

Not likely. It is channel-deprived, imho.

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post #549 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 11:29 PM
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Tonight I added a page to my website where I describe the sonic difference between the stock 83SE and my MBBM (Mind Blowing Baby Mod, cost is $60) standard 83.
I call them as I hear them. There will be more listening tests as I mod both machines. I will also have high rez pics of the boards of both machines and also very clear information on how to bypass all the coupling caps in the Oppos for superior sound (can be done in 10 minutes...assuming you can solder....very, very easy.....very, very easy....did I say easy....yes, I did)

Wow, is the 20,000+ posts for Kal for real? Do you live here? he he.
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post #550 of 5806 Old 11-15-2009, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

Christine has been talking about matching the output amplifiers to the DAC via some kind of measurement thang....slew rates, whatever. There is no sonic evidence to back up something like this.

You are kidding, right?
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post #551 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Schultz View Post

Wow, is the 20,000+ posts for Kal for real? Do you live here? he he.

That's only like 9 posts per day since he joined. Obviously more on some days and less on others.
A lot of people love the hobby of music and movies, which I think Kal does as well. At the same time, it is also part of his profession.
Not unreasonable to imagine stacking up that many post in almost 6 years time since he joined.
Thank goodness there are lots of folks like Kal here to offer their expert advice and personal opinions that help AVS to be a wealth for all a/v enthusiasts.
Then there are those that may only lurk and read, for learning and entertainment.
Of course just as well, some posters can see the shine of a shilling from miles away. They don't come around as often as the dedicated enthusiasts.

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post #552 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 12:58 AM
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Are there any official reviews of this SE version yet?
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post #553 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:09 AM
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no

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JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #554 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 02:22 AM
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I find Ric's impression somewhat interesting.

He uses the words boring and dry describing the SE. And that is how some folks will describe accurate true reproduction of the audio on the disc, when played back from a higher end player.
Can a mod change how the audio will sound, of course it can
Will the sound of one mod be the same as a different mod by a different company, probably not.
So mods like OEM players have different sound signatures, you may or may-not like.
And its for that reason why I am getting a new SE with the NE mod. Plus the fact that Nuforce has a inside track to what Oppo is doing with the SE. imo Nuforce's mod is in-keeping with what Oppo is doing with the SE. From what I have read so far, all Nuforce is doing is upgrading some components that Oppo deemed, not enough bang for the buck to achieve Oppos price point.

So by next weekend if all goes well I will be happy or disappointed. And relay that opinion back here.

ss
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post #555 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 04:37 AM
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I am looking to upgrade my ancient home theater have an older receiver that I plan on using in the short term. I was wondering if the SE version will give me an improved sound when using the BDP-83's analog outputs.
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post #556 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goosey View Post

I am looking to upgrade my ancient home theater have an older receiver that I plan on using in the short term. I was wondering if the SE version will give me an improved sound when using the BDP-83's analog outputs.

The BD-83SE at least on paper should improve your Audio. But not near enough info from users yet.

There should be some more impressions from folks that are now just getting there BD-83SE this week.

ss
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post #557 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I find Ric's impression somewhat interesting.

He uses the words boring and dry describing the SE. And that is how some folks will describe accurate true reproduction of the audio on the disc, when played back from a higher end player.
Can a mod change how the audio will sound, of course it can
Will the sound of one mod be the same as a different mod by a different company, probably not.
So mods like OEM players have different sound signatures, you may or may-not like.
And its for that reason why I am getting a new SE with the NE mod. Plus the fact that Nuforce has a inside track to what Oppo is doing with the SE. imo Nuforce's mod is in-keeping with what Oppo is doing with the SE. From what I have read so far, all Nuforce is doing is upgrading some components that Oppo deemed, not enough bang for the buck to achieve Oppos price point.

So by next weekend if all goes well I will be happy or disappointed. And relay that opinion back here.

ss

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...
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post #558 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by soloz2 View Post

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

. I wasn't commenting on what he said so much, but how he said it.
I think anybody that reads it can see the rest coming.

Anyway my point in what I was saying is that audio is a very personal thing. What I like you may not. And really the one thing we can determine about the BD-83 or modded versions, is how accurate it reproduces the audio to what is on the disc.

ss
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post #559 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 06:15 AM
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Hello Kal,

I was wondering, since you are considered an expert at evaluating audio equipment, do you see any issues with connecting the Oppo analog outputs directly to a 5 channel Carver amp? Other than not having as finite control over the volume levels I haven't observed any issues. Oppo said there might be some truncation when listening at volume levels below 70%, but in testing they said they didn't detect any. Also, since I am using the analog outputs directly to my amp, shouldn't I theoretically notice the most sound improvement with the SE? Thank you for your assistance.
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post #560 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 07:39 AM
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When commenting on multichannel analog sound quality and especially when comparing analog output of different units, it would interesting to learn what analog cabling to the AVR is being used.
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post #561 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

. I wasn't commenting on what he said so much, but how he said it.
I think anybody that reads it can see the rest coming.

Anyway my point in what I was saying is that audio is a very personal thing. What I like you may not. And really the one thing we can determine about the BD-83 or modded versions, is how accurate it reproduces the audio to what is on the disc.

ss

Actually, the problem is that we cannot determine how _accurately_ the 83 (in any form) or any other component or tweak reproduces what is on the disc.

Why? because chances are we weren't sitting next to the microphone in the concert hall during the original live event. If you didn't experience the music first hand, how do you know what it should sound like? How do you know if your system is _accurately_ reproducing it?

And the situation only gets worse when you consider the original recording equipment. Was the microphone(s) set up correctly? Did it, or other equipment in the recording chain, "color" the sound in any way? Did the room acoustics mess with the bass? If so, then who knows what's recorded on that shiny metal disc?

So you randomly grab a CD from your collection, pop it in your system for a listen, and think, "hmm, the bass sounds muddy". Or, "the imaging could be better". Or, "it sounds too analytical (whatever that means)".

So you think, "I'll try different interconnects. Or maybe a different amp. Or maybe I should put my transport up on cones. I'm sure one of those changes will make it _sound_better_."

So you make a change and lo and behold, the bass is more taught, or now you can pick out exactly where that trumpet is in the soundstage. Great! What did you really accomplish???

Maybe the bass on that CD _is_ muddy, or maybe the imaging _is_ poor. What happens when you listen to a different CD, say one that (unbeknownst to you) is the mythical "perfect recording" of the original event. Because of the changes you made to your system, the highs are now too shrill, or...

Hmm, maybe you need a new preamp!

The whole idea of "high fidelity" is faithfull reproduction of the input signal (music). A crappy recording should sound crappy. Anything we do to make it "sound better" is by definition distortion.

And since objective measurements like THD or frequency response don't seem to tell the whole story, we're left in a subjective mess with everyone in search of things that will make their rig "sound better".

(That said, I too am hoping the 83SE "sounds good". I would definitely consider the upgrade )

Sorry for the rant. I ran across some initial comments on the 83SE somewhere on the web. This person felt it was basically unlistenable. At least until (s)he put it on cones. Then the clouds parted...
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post #562 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

And its for that reason why I am getting a new SE with the NE mod.

Which should send you more or less due E.


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post #563 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 09:13 AM
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I was or am going to get a fully modified SE, but this would be 900+1500 USD for the player, at that price is there any other Bluray players i should consider?
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post #564 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by soloz2 View Post

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

There is always a risk of 'overselling' something that might in fact be very good.
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post #565 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 10:27 AM
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I wonder how the analog SQ of the BDP-83 SE will compare to the stock Denon 3800? Is anyone getting the SE or their BDP-83 upgraded that has the 3800? I would be curious to hear the impressions from owners of both units.

Bill

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post #566 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post

There is always a risk of 'overselling' something that might in fact be very good.

Or the risk of overselling something that may not be that good at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by soloz2 View Post

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

I think the following quote from his website says a lot about his credibility as an objective reviewer:

Quote:


Listened to the MBBModded unit versus a stock Oppo 83 using HDMI into my 42 inch Plasma (my only HDMI input thang). I wanted to see if I could hear or see a difference via HDMI using my TV. Sure enough the sound was fuller, warmer and more real on the MBBM unit and the colors were more saturated and pure and the pic was slightly more detailed and real looking.

I especially liked the bit about colours being more saturated and the pic being more detailed.
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post #567 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine Tham View Post

Or the risk of overselling something that may not be that good at all



I think the following quote from his website says a lot about his credibility as an objective reviewer:



I especially liked the bit about colours being more saturated and the pic being more detailed.


That is a helluva mod to the player if it can improve the DACs in his TV! HDMI must be more powerful than I thought . . .
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post #568 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I wonder how the analog SQ of the BDP-83 SE will compare to the stock Denon 3800? Is anyone getting the SE or their BDP-83 upgraded that has the 3800? I would be curious to hear the impressions from owners of both units.

Bill

I ordered a BDP-83SE to replace my aging Denon 2200. (Not a 3800, I realize, but the guts are somewhat similar (I think). The 2200 uses DSD1791 DAC's intead of the 3800's DSD1796's.) It should be here either Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm looking forward to doing a side-by-side comparison. I have 2 copies of Guster's "Keep it Together" CD that I can load into both players and do a simultaneous A/B analog comparo through my (also aging) Denon 1803 receiver. I'll post my results once I receive the OPPO.

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post #569 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sbjork View Post

That is a helluva mod to the player if it can improve the DACs in his TV! HDMI must be more powerful than I thought . . .

And, for only $60 worth of parts!!!
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post #570 of 5806 Old 11-16-2009, 01:29 PM
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And, for only $60 worth of parts!!!

But it's probably another $1500 in labor to get those parts installed . Anyone who claims they can hear a difference in the sound when connecting a stock versus modded player to their "42 inch plasma TV" (brand and model not even mentioned) isn't going to touch any of my A/V gear or get any of my $$$.
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