Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 10:36 AM
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I agree, that is my next project. But can't play reference levels at night.
db

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I didn't see any mention of an SPL meter. Someone needs to establish if the analog signal level coming out of the 83SE is the same as the regular 83. It could easily be slightly different (and if so I bet it's not lower).

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post #632 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I didn't see any mention of an SPL meter. Someone needs to establish if the analog signal level coming out of the 83SE is the same as the regular 83. It could easily be slightly different (and if so I bet it's not lower).

Krik...another poster a few days ago said the following:

Oppo SE
2CH = 2.3Vrms maximum output level
MCH = 2.0Vrms maximum output level

These levels are identical to the standard Oppo BD player, so as far as the levels are concerned from the players, its not an issue. Since DAB used the same inputs, AVR settings, cables I'd say that his test is more than legitimate. He seemed to take great lengths to ensure that his test setup is identical to both players.

Now, I'm waiting for the fedex guy to drop off my upgraded SE

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #633 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:03 AM
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It's just part of a fair test to make sure the levels are the same. Even with the same specs. you still have to measure.
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post #634 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DAB View Post

I have a Oppo 83 and Oppo 83SE-- side byside{well one on the top shelf and one on a lower shelf} same $5000 power cord ;^)) - same 5.1 interconnects, same D2ch cables, same HDMI cable[video]. Yes, it was a pain to remove each cable after listening to the same song twice on the 83, then on the 83SE- Next song twice[some time more] on the 83SE then 83......... I did go through many CD but just used these as examples.

DAB, at the risk of asking too much, could you do the following to eliminate the "memory" variable, at least for the 2-channel audio section?

- Connect the 2-channel analog outs of the Oppo 83 to one set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (CD, for example)
- Connect the 2-channel analog outs of the Oppo 83SE to another set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (VCR, for example)
- Place a copy of the same 2-channel CD into each player, hit "play" on each, and simply switch back and forth via the receiver/amp/pre-pro's input selector (or have someone else switch back and forth without your knowledge) to see the difference between the two players.

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post #635 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Banana View Post

DAB, at the risk of asking too much, could you do the following to eliminate the "memory" variable, at least for the 2-channel audio section?

- Connect the 2-channel analog outs of the Oppo 83 to one set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (CD, for example)
- Connect the 2-channel analog outs of the Oppo 83SE to another set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (VCR, for example)
- Place a copy of the same 2-channel CD into each player, hit "play" on each, and simply switch back and forth via the receiver/amp/pre-pro's input selector (or have someone else switch back and forth without your knowledge) to see the difference between the two players.

That a good idea actually. One step further, would be to start one disc, then start the other disc like 30 seconds later. While listening to the first, you can then quickly switch to the second and hear the same last 30 seconds of music.
You could also use the A/B REPEAT function of the player to keep repeating the same passage.

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post #636 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

It's just part of a fair test to make sure the levels are the same. Even with the same specs. you still have to measure.

Fully agree

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #637 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

That a good idea actually. One step further, would be to start one disc, then start the other disc like 30 seconds later. While listening to the first, you can then quickly switch to the second and hear the same last 30 seconds of music.
You could also use the A/B REPEAT function of the player to keep repeating the same passage.

Super...why didn't I think of that?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #638 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer banana View Post

dab, at the risk of asking too much, could you do the following to eliminate the "memory" variable, at least for the 2-channel audio section?

- connect the 2-channel analog outs of the oppo 83 to one set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (cd, for example)
- connect the 2-channel analog outs of the oppo 83se to another set of 2-channel analog inputs in your receiver/amp/pre-pro (vcr, for example)
- place a copy of the same 2-channel cd into each player, hit "play" on each, and simply switch back and forth via the receiver/amp/pre-pro's input selector (or have someone else switch back and forth without your knowledge) to see the difference between the two players.

+1 indeed

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #639 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:25 PM
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Fack' why did you give me this idea sooner....
I did just that- that rack is pulled out from the wall so it was a quick lunch idea.
I have two Vienna Teng Cd- tied this. but i have to calibrate before i can give a definitive answer. Both players trim 0.0 -- AVR trim 0.0. . the Oppo 83SE is "CD" & 83 "tape" on the Denon remote. Both disc are 20 sec. difference.
Issue--- 83SE is louder in vol. than the 83. so i have to adjust the master volume . The SE sound stage is fuller. so only after calibrating can we have a = & fair test.
Thursday,,
db
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post #640 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Reminder the thread is Analog Audio Discussion, not about can power supplies effect HDMI video.

John,
You're kidding, right. I mention that I have an SE here for comparison sake, and because folks on the forum wanted more than the 2 channel comparo will also drag out my mch analog TAP-9000ES surround pre for an a/b on the analog mch outs (even though that's not how I listen to mch). Then...I react to ONE forum post about how Stimby believes that the (analog, yes analog) modders who claim an HDMI improvement are BS. Stimby also responds....and you ding me??

Anyway, after giving the SE 24 hours of warm up/break in I'm gonna start my a/b 2 channel ANALOG comparison listening tonight. I'll make sure I don't EVER use the digital or HDMI words, otherwise I'll get slapped and anyone interested will have to ping me privately.

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post #641 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

...and you ding me??....

I don't think it was aimed at you specifically, but worded to try to get the discussion back on track rather than develop an argument about what is what in the world of bits and bytes, modded or not!
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post #642 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

John,
You're kidding, right. I mention that I have an SE here for comparison sake, and because folks on the forum wanted more than the 2 channel comparo will also drag out my mch analog TAP-9000ES surround pre for an a/b on the analog mch outs (even though that's not how I listen to mch). Then...I react to ONE forum post about how Stimby believes that the (analog, yes analog) modders who claim an HDMI improvement are BS. Stimby also responds....and you ding me??

Anyway, after giving the SE 24 hours of warm up/break in I'm gonna start my a/b 2 channel ANALOG comparison listening tonight. I'll make sure I don't EVER use the digital or HDMI words, otherwise I'll get slapped and anyone interested will have to ping me privately.

Over reaction, but I still want you to post ALL your findings. Remember, it is your opinion and I would like to know.
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post #643 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

I don't think it was aimed at you specifically, but worded to try to get the discussion back on track rather than develop an argument about what is what in the world of bits and bytes, modded or not!

I fully understand Jim, but the discussion was borne out of what analog modders like Rick or Dan (Modwright) claim are byproducts of their designs. These claims, and their associated costs, are quite relevant in this "how much is analog improved" thread. When modders attempt to improve the analog performance of a source unit they do more than change out opamps; they add shielding, change or improve power supplies...and oh, sometimes invalidate a warranty (something John asked about as well..not exactly an analog topic, but clearly not worthy of a new thread). Stimby simply stated that anything other than firmware or chips, the byproducts of improved source parts replacements cannot affect digital performance....a reasonable and debatable subtopic. I guess you guys wanted a new thread for that?

I'm done.

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post #644 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

John,
You're kidding, right. I mention that I have an SE here for comparison sake, and because folks on the forum wanted more than the 2 channel comparo will also drag out my mch analog TAP-9000ES surround pre for an a/b on the analog mch outs (even though that's not how I listen to mch). Then...I react to ONE forum post about how Stimby believes that the (analog, yes analog) modders who claim an HDMI improvement are BS. Stimby also responds....and you ding me??

Anyway, after giving the SE 24 hours of warm up/break in I'm gonna start my a/b 2 channel ANALOG comparison listening tonight. I'll make sure I don't EVER use the digital or HDMI words, otherwise I'll get slapped and anyone interested will have to ping me privately.

ted_b:

No sweat...whenever i had my hand slapped unfairly by a boss or 'superior', I'd console myself by saying "Its OK David... its OK. Life is good, God is good" repeatedly until it became a non-issue. I personally valued your arguments highly and I agree with them. Any poster saying that mods to the Oppo audio board improves HDMI video performance should indeed be suspect.

See? I even got to use the dreaded "HDMI" word

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #645 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 01:59 PM
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Hi, I was well on my way to buy the OPPO BDP-83 only just being released here in Europe, when I saw that a SE version has been launched. Can you let me know your thoughts on whether I would benefit from the SE when it comes to major improvements in CD listening from the analogue stereo outputs rather than only using HDMI to my Denon 4308? Thanks!
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post #646 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ibber View Post

Hi, I was well on my way to buy the OPPO BDP-83 only just being released here in Europe, when I saw that a SE version has been launched. Can you let me know your thoughts on whether I would benefit from the SE when it comes to major improvements in CD listening from the analogue stereo outputs rather than only using HDMI to my Denon 4308? Thanks!

Only you can be that judge, but assuming your preamp or 4308 (not sure where your Oppo will be connected to) is up to the task, yes! The SE's primary improvement is to the 2 channel analog outs, with also good improvement to the multichannel analog outs. You are a target customer.

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post #647 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

I don't think it was aimed at you specifically, but worded to try to get the discussion back on track rather than develop an argument about what is what in the world of bits and bytes, modded or not!

Exactly, I could see the direction the thread was taking.

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post #648 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

until people started to see sparklies red and green dots and drop out which turned out to be hdmi cable related !

I never said cable quality makes no difference to error rate, and I never said that the 1s and 0s aren't ultimately analog. If you think I said that, then you need to reread what I wrote. What I am saying, is that if the digital video stream is reconstructed without error, there will be no difference in the final picture displayed. If there are errors, you will get anything from sparkles up to and including an HDCP error message. That is EXACTLY why I do not want any mods that would alter the digital bitstream from an analog viewpoint: analog electronics are not aware of the digital transport format, so any "changes" to the digital bitstream as a result of the analog transport can only have a negative, not a positive, impact to picture quality, manifested as the errors described above.

I continue to maintain that if the digital picture output from the BDP-83 was received error-free to start with on the TV, there can be no improvement in picture quality by altering any additional electronics outside of the TV set. To imply otherwise is "snake oil". You've received the bitstream 100% intact and cannot ask for more. If you were receiving the bitstream in error BEFORE the mod, then you clearly have bad cables or defective hardware, and that should be addressed separately.
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post #649 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 05:01 PM
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Still in the process of calibrating my SE. Can anyone tell me what db level I should be using 75 or 85? I know the standard is 75 but some test tones are meant to be used at 85. Just want to make sure I am doing it right. Thanks!

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post #650 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Reminder the thread is Analog Audio Discussion, not about can power supplies effect HDMI video.

That it is, but you might be missing the point. I was actually intrigued by some of RS's output mods up to the point where he made the HDMI video claim. At that point, he severely lost credibility IMHO. That calls into question the remainder of the audio mods.

To mis-quote a Pixar movie, "anyone can mod". That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I have no doubt that with the cost/benefit restraints removed, there is always room for improvement in most circuit designs. But that doesn't mean that all mods are an improvement, and when you get to the point where you're messing with circuits where the difference is in the noise floor of a -110dB dynamic range, you're getting to the point where "different" is so subtle that it might or might not even be better. When you start doing things like cutting carefully engineered high-speed PCB traces (that are basically waveguides at high frequency) to install replacement clocks with wire leads that induct more jitter than they remove, you could easily be reducing the quality of your gear, not improving it.

I have no problem believing that bypassing the coupling caps could theoretically improve the sound. However, how many of you have amps capable of driving or inputting pure DC? Not many, I'd wager: DC is a very bad thing for amplifiers and a terrible thing for speakers. So what about all those caps in your preamps? And your amps? Are you gonna bypass them too? Are you going to mod your preamp and your amp also? When you do, are you going to install a servo circuit to keep your speakers from melting? So you see, I won't say there *couldn't* be a benefit, but I also doubt that the benefit would be as substantial as other changes that could be made, especially given the fact that you already have other caps in your signal path. That is, unless Oppo is using the worst possible parts in their output stage, which seems unlikely.

And here's a clue: I guarantee you that the equipment used to record your music in the first place had capacitors in its signal path, and I can assure you they were nowhere near as exotic as some of the audiophile caps that people mod with.

As far as subjectivism vs. objectivism goes, you have to use your ears, no question. But you also have to be aware of how malleable your brain is, and how short-term listening and viewing memory actually is. The reason psychoacoustic compression works at all is because the human brain is very susceptible to tricks.

I prefer to use my eyes and ears, but question my brain. I also prefer rational approaches to circuit design rather than dartboard approaches. If you find yourself looking to see or hear improvements that you don't already expect to exist as a natural feature of your design, your brain can will them into existence, just as surely as it can be tricked by optical illusions. If your designs are influenced by "magic" results, i.e. I did this thing over here with the power supply in my BD player and lo, my HDMI TV picture improved, then you are either selling snake oil or deceiving yourself. Cause and effect: could there be some other reason your picture looked better that was unrelated to the power supply mods? Time of day, room brightness, your eyes adjusting to lighting conditions? If you have not eliminated all possibilities in an organized fashion, and generated reproducible results that can pass a double-blind test, then you are kidding yourself.

What really amazes me are how people who have neither heard nor seen any of these units are so eager to believe that there MUST be SOME magical improvement involving a few tweaks that can make the unit far, far better in every way than it would be, compared to how it was designed by the engineers who created it in the first place. There's practically a line forming for people to void their warranty on units they haven't even heard or seen yet. If you have so little confidence in Oppo's engineering talent, why are you buying the product?

Here's another clue: if you are planning to have Oppo or Nuforce drop ship a BDP-83SE directly to a modder without actually listening to it first, you should seriously consider having yourself tested for OCD.
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post #651 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanier View Post

... you should seriously consider having yourself tested for OCD.

That is probably a blanket statement that applies to most posters here.
Like I always say, there's nothing wrong with thriving for perfection.

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post #652 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanier View Post

And here's a clue: I guarantee you that the equipment used to record your music in the first place had capacitors in its signal path, and I can assure you they were nowhere near as exotic as some of the audiophile caps that people mod with.

And on top of that, they are full of 5532, 4558, and TL07x op amps. If you are willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars per channel, then you'll get high-grade op amps or discreet designs (along with better passive and electromechanical components). Even some of those expensive models use "cheap" components. It all comes down to circuit design, board layout, and power supply design. A good design with cheap components can sound better than a bad design with expensive components.
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post #653 of 5806 Old 11-17-2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanier View Post

What really amazes me are how people who have neither heard nor seen any of these units are so eager to believe that there MUST be SOME magical improvement involving a few tweaks that can make the unit far, far better in every way than it would be, compared to how it was designed by the engineers who created it in the first place. There's practically a line forming for people to void their warranty on units they haven't even heard or seen yet. If you have so little confidence in Oppo's engineering talent, why are you buying the product?

This is what bothered me the most about some posters immediately attacking the design, complaining about why better parts hadn't been used, and how some modders posted how their design modifications were superior to Oppo and NuForce without offering any factual comparisons. I'm sure most readers of this thread just want a non-bias gathering of facts and reviews against the SE and NuForce upgrades so they can make a informed decision.
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Originally Posted by jlanier View Post

Here's another clue: if you are planning to have Oppo or Nuforce drop ship a BDP-83SE directly to a modder without actually listening to it first, you should seriously consider having yourself tested for OCD.

Seems that way doesn't it.

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post #654 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

Only you can be that judge, but assuming your preamp or 4308 (not sure where your Oppo will be connected to) is up to the task, yes! The SE's primary improvement is to the 2 channel analog outs, with also good improvement to the multichannel analog outs. You are a target customer.

Appreciate your advise ted-b, I only have the Denon 4308 and no preamps, so the analogue stereo outputs from the OPPO would connect to the Denon 4308 for CD listening and with HDMI for movies(and maybe SACD).

Considering the below from OPPO, is my Denon 4308 good enough to be considered as a dedicated stereo system and benefit from the SE for CD listening?

OPPO Digital recommends the BDP-83 Special Edition to customers who primarily use the analog audio output to connect to either a dedicated stereo or a multi-channel surround system. For customers who primarily use the HDMI output to connect to an A/V receiver or directly to a TV/projector, and for customers who primarily use the optical/coaxial digital audio output, the standard BDP-83 is recommended.
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post #655 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 01:11 AM
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I dont think I'm going to bother wasting my time further with the likes of those with what appears to be rather simplistic views of it all being about just 1's and 0's and nothing shall get in their way

Getting back to the discussion of analog audio. Perhaps what we have here is a case of die hard followers that can only think that "oppo knows best". I mean if oppo did know best youd have to wonder dont you why nuforce take it upon to further breathe onto the product with a nuforce edition. If nuforce can improve it even, why is it so hard to believe the product cant be modded further, be it simply or more comprehensively for an even better result.

the reality of it is that the original oppo design was very wanting in the analog department. Ofcourse there are even those that will argue otherwise and claim the sun shines out its analog ports but I'd say probably more a case of an over active imagination and a bad case of denial

And its not like analog stages are all about some sort of magic the basis is just good engineering. Have a look at any of player with decent analog performance and you'll see a decent discrete dac implementation, well endowed analog stages and power supplies. And oppo has gone some way with the SE version updating the dacs and their implementation, some component swapping it seems on the analog stage and done some tinkering with the switch mode supply. More will be apparent no doubt when some pictures surface with a bit more detail as to what they have actually done with each version.

But again who is to say that what oppo has done is the absolute ultimate. And that no one else who can see obviously some areas can't make some further improvements with small or large modifications to a better result.

And its not like I'm not skeptical of a lot of mods done. Often some I think are just component swaps and tinkering around the edges with pretty dubious result. And wonder about some of the silly money mods where your possibly better off buying a better player in the first place.

But hey am willing to keep an open mind that anything can always be improved upon. Doesnt mean I have to buy into it, but also a bit silly to disregard them I think. Afterall need to keep in mind the SE or nuforce version's are really only just mods of the original design

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post #656 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ibber View Post

Appreciate your advise ted-b, I only have the Denon 4308 and no preamps, so the analogue stereo outputs from the OPPO would connect to the Denon 4308 for CD listening and with HDMI for movies(and maybe SACD).

Considering the below from OPPO, is my Denon 4308 good enough to be considered as a dedicated stereo system and benefit from the SE for CD listening?

OPPO Digital recommends the BDP-83 Special Edition to customers who primarily use the analog audio output to connect to either a dedicated stereo or a multi-channel surround system. For customers who primarily use the HDMI output to connect to an A/V receiver or directly to a TV/projector, and for customers who primarily use the optical/coaxial digital audio output, the standard BDP-83 is recommended.

having owned a 4308 myself, I would personally hook it up via hdmi. And if you have a denon player & avr/avp then over denon link is really the way to go. Over analog, there is better dedicated analog equipment around with which I think you would acheive better result. But seing as you have the denon perhaps worth comparing for your self either way. nothing to loose and that way can easily come to your own conclusions

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post #657 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

having owned a 4308 myself, I would personally hook it up via hdmi. And if you have a denon player & avr/avp then over denon link is really the way to go. Over analog, there is better dedicated analog equipment around with which I think you would acheive better result. But seing as you have the denon perhaps worth comparing for your self either way. nothing to loose and that way can easily come to your own conclusions

Thanks alebonau, I'm choosing the OPPO over a Denon Bluray due to the loadspeed and multiplayer capabilities and was just hoping to get convinced whether the SE version is worth the price increase or not for for CD listening when I 'only' have the Denon 4308. Or if I would be just as well of with the standard version over HDMI. Comparing for my self would mean I would have to purchase the SE and might not benefit from the improved analogue stereo outputs:-(
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post #658 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ibber View Post

Appreciate your advise ted-b, I only have the Denon 4308 and no preamps, so the analog stereo outputs from the OPPO would connect to the Denon 4308 for CD listening and with HDMI for movies(and maybe SACD).

Ibber, glance over my posts on Oppo stereo analog output processed through my Denon 2809.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17506950
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17513424

I am skeptical that I would hear $300 worth of improvements from the SE over my std Oppo's stereo outputs, which I like very much, thank you. Obviously I would not bother with analog for multichannel sources.

IMHO one must keep in mind the entire signal path and the "weakest link(s)" in it. For many of us without acoustically treated rooms and expensive speakers, it is the room &/or the speakers. IMHO that is what makes Audyssey so crucial & valuable. Since I'm "going digital" in The AVR, I believe I will likely have diminishing returns on further improving the stereo analog signal. But I'm tuned in here to see if someone posts some applicable real world test results. Of course, YMMV.

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post #659 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Ibber, glance over my posts on Oppo stereo analog output processed through my Denon 2809.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17506950
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17513424

I am skeptical that I would hear $300 worth of improvements from the SE over my std Oppo's stereo outputs, which I like very much, thank you. Obviously I would not bother with analog for multichannel sources.

IMHO one must keep in mind the entire signal path and the "weakest link(s)" in it. For many of us without acoustically treated rooms and expensive speakers, it is the room &/or the speakers. IMHO that is what makes Audyssey so crucial & valuable. Since I'm "going digital" in The AVR, I believe I will likely have diminishing returns on further improving the stereo analog signal. But I'm tuned in here to see if someone posts some applicable real world test results. Of course, YMMV.

Very interesting SoundofMind, I had not seen these posts. So your thoughts are that I would have more benefit from HDMI to the A/V reciever with Audyssey roomcorrection than with SE's analogue stereo and pure direct on the reciever? This makes sense since my listening space is a standard livingroom. Seems like I could save 600USD, which the pricedifference is here in Europe, without any major loss in CD sound. Cheers!
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post #660 of 5806 Old 11-18-2009, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jlanier View Post

What really amazes me are how people who have neither heard nor seen any of these units are so eager to believe that there MUST be SOME magical improvement involving a few tweaks that can make the unit far, far better in every way than it would be, compared to how it was designed by the engineers who created it in the first place. There's practically a line forming for people to void their warranty on units they haven't even heard or seen yet. If you have so little confidence in Oppo's engineering talent, why are you buying the product?

I am equally amazed by people who have neither neard nor seen any of the modded units, insisting that such mods couldn't have real benefits. I used to own a Marantz CD player, in which a very minor mod of removing the output muting transistors created a dramatic improvement in the analog sound. (The difference was so large as to be immediately obvious to anyone who was used to the player's sound.) The muting transistors were clearly put into the circuit by the engineers for a specific purpose. After they were removed, the player produced a loud pop through its outputs whenever it was turned on or off, which average consumers would have objected to. But those transistors also hampered the overall sound quality, and their removal was a no-brainer for any audiophile.

My point is that it is indeed possible for minor mods to have major sonic impact. Whether or not simple mods have significant impact on the Oppo BD player remains to be seen, but I am just as skeptical of the naysayers as I am of the gushing proponents.
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