Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 11:18 AM
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Let me tell you semething, i own a BDP-83 and love it as a DVD/Bluray player but have nothing to do with my regretted Arcam DV-88 plus player as analog stereo player, so the price of the BDP-83SE, i'll just go buy a brand new FMJ CD17 from Arcam, dedicated 2 ch player, toroidal transfo, Wolfson 8741 DAC , all this for $1000.00 can. and the BDP-83se will never get close to it.
2 separate machine for 2 separate use, that's the best way to go i think.

Sach
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post #92 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I look forward to the following (analog or analog vs. digital [HDMI]) shootout:

Oppo BDP-83 - $499
BDP-83SE - $895
BDP-83SE NuForce Edition - $1295
BDP-83 Modwright modification - $950 - $1495
...
...
Ayre DX-5 - ~$10,000


Double-blinded of course.

Mike

And the winner is $499.00
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post #93 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA1 View Post

Let me tell you semething, i own a BDP-83 and love it as a DVD/Bluray player but have nothing to do with my regretted Arcam DV-88 plus player as analog stereo player, so the price of the BDP-83SE, i'll just go buy a brand new FMJ CD17 from Arcam, dedicated 2 ch player, toroidal transfo, Wolfson 8741 DAC , all this for $1000.00 can. and the BDP-83se will never get close to it.
2 separate machine for 2 separate use, that's the best way to go i think.

Sach

Yep
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post #94 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I look forward to the following (analog or analog vs. digital [HDMI]) shootout:

Oppo BDP-83 - $499
BDP-83SE - $895
BDP-83SE NuForce Edition - $1295
BDP-83 Modwright modification - $950 - $1495
...
...
Ayre DX-5 - ~$10,000


Double-blinded of course.

Mike

Dont forget the Lexicon BD-30 and Theta's Compli Blu

"Without music life would be a mistake." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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post #95 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

Djoel,
Good point; I didn't explain myself well. I know why he returns MY messages, of course. But his customer service is well known among anyone looking for Modwright products or services, so, in my experience, he returns EVERYONE'S messages promptly and succinctly (even when traveling). It's that experience (rather than my personal experiences) that has me perplexed as to the poster's comments

I recently had my Oppo modified by Dan. During my communication with him about this, I got the following email from him:

Hello ...,

I've received your message entitled "Re: Oppo". I wanted to let you know that I've added you to my Boxbe Guest List.

Boxbe helps me manage my email by prioritizing messages from people I know. You'd be amazed at how much better my inbox is now.

This is the only email you will receive about Boxbe from me and there is no need to respond.



Thank you,
Dan Wright


It would appear that he has had some spam issues and has done this to cope. This may be the reason why some folks have had problems with communication. This didn't affect me though, and his responsiveness when I contacted him was as good as you could ask for .

The modded player sounds pretty nifty too.

Taxes are the price we pay to live in civilization. If you don't like government, move to Somalia.
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post #96 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sac8d4 View Post

Dont forget the Lexicon BD-30 and Theta's Compli Blu

Those were the "..."s.
I knew some other mods/clones/Oppo-based machines were in the works, but I had forgotten which.

I'll add them.

Thanks.

Mike
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post #97 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 02:38 PM
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Oppo BDP-83 - Uses Cirrus Logic DAC
Oppo BDP-83 SE - Uses ESS Sabre32 DAC (x2) + different power supply from regular BDP-83.
Oppo BDP-83 Nuforce Edition - Further upgrade on the Sabre32 platform

The improved power supply is on the analog audio supplies, so there should be no impact to the HDMI output. However, we believe the analog output on both the SE and Nuforce edition could easily better most HDMI processors (unless you are using $7K plus processor that does fancy DSP re-clocking like Lexicon or Meridian).

Nuforce Edition does not add/replace the original SE power supply, we change the regulation and other related circuit as necessary as to power the different analog output stage.

Since the SE is already very good, easily better or equal to audiophile CD Player up to $2500, and we do have limitation on board space: 50% of the SE board real estate is allocated for the 2-channel stereo, while the other 50% is used by all of the 8-channel (running off a single 8-channel Sabre32), and therefore, we keep the surround channels' analog circuit unchanged. However, since the power supply regulation has been changed, the surround channels benefits from better/stiffer regulation.

To upgrade a regular BDP-83 to SE or Nuforce Edition, both the analog DAC board and the original power supply must be replaced.

"Without music life would be a mistake." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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post #98 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 02:44 PM
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Its been said (i believe by Neuromancer?) that the Oppo 83SE and standard 83 will have identical FW. How can this be if both use completely different DACs with different firrmware control mechanisms? The internal register set for the Cirrus DAC is very different from that of the Sabre32 DAC from ESS. Either we'll have one global piece of FW that recognizes the DAC inside and updates it accordingly or we'll have two separate pieces of code for the different DACs.

Now, I can't image Oppo maintaining two or more different versions of their BD player firmware so I'm tempted to think it'll be one universal piece of code that supports both DACs. If this is true, i hope that a bug fix for Sabre32 DAC doesn't screw up something else for players using the Cirrus DACs.

The claimed technical specs of the Sabre32 DACs are extremely impressive. Sad to say that they will 'degrade' due to the addition of post-DAC active buffers and/Opamps. There are no opamps/buffers that I know of that can maintain the Sabres 130dB dynamic range(DR) and -120dB distortion(THD) specs at room temperature, let alone at the elevated temps within the BD player. I bet once the SE player is measured on the bench, its performance will not be that much different than that of the stock Oppo, whose DR and THD specs are at least +20dB higher based on lab-bench tests from at least one well known and well respected online magazine review.

I've been told that superb specs don't mean superb sound. I'll have to take that as a statement of faith for now.

Just my 2 cents, nothing more and certainly nothing less...

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #99 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 02:59 PM
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The pre-shipping deal on the Nu-Force version was just too much. I caved.
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post #100 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 04:50 PM
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I have the itch to upgrade one of my two original BDP-83's to a Nuforce edition. Both of my BDP-83's are used in two similar systems. One provides source material to a Lexicon MC12BV5EQ and the other to a Lexicon MC-12V5EQ. Neither of the Lexicon's have HDMI capability so I am using the OPPO's 5.1 analog out capability for multi channel source material and 2 channel analog out for CDs. Since I like to implement the room correction capabilty of the Lexicon's, the incoming signal from the OPPO'd has to be converted back to a digital signal in the Lexicon. Given how I operate these systems would it make sense to try the Nuforce upgrade?
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post #101 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rombullterrier View Post

The pre-shipping deal on the Nu-Force version was just too much. I caved.

I was wondering what you were referring too, until I checked the Nu Force site and see they are offering a discount for pre-orders... which the release date seems to be only 10 days away.

Here are the pre-order prices...

OPPO Pre-Order Specials!

OPPO BDP-83SE NuForce Edition
$1295$1165
OPPO BDP-83SE $895$805

I do not see a discount price for the "upgrade option" to turn your current BDP-83 into an SE or NuForce Edition.

Now those are prices from Nu Force. OPPO has said they will have more info on their site on Monday. So at that time, we'll have to see if the SE version can be ordered from OPPO, and at what price.

~Dave

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post #102 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 05:38 PM
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BTW, I just went to the last page of checkout with a pre-order for the BDP-83SE.
The final cost is still only $805 with FREE FeEx shipping.
They are located in California, so I assume there is sales tax for those in CA.

~Dave

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post #103 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 05:50 PM
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I have two 83's and am very interested in an upgrade path with OPPO -
I hope they offer one. I have the 983 and sent OPPO an email inquiring
about upgrade paths for both units. I'd hate to think about
buying 2-3 more players.

The NuForce edition is tempting for 8-channel playback.

Perhaps OPPO could offer a separate 2-channel DAC via HDMI, EBU, etc.

Cheers!

lon
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post #104 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

BTW, I just went to the last page of checkout with a pre-order for the BDP-83SE.
The final cost is still only $805 with FREE FeEx shipping.
They are located in California, so I assume there is sales tax for those in CA.

Ahhh, leave it to you to go to the last page.

So it looks like the price is going to be $895 + shipping from Oppo. That is a hefty increase, and somewhat surprising.
But then, it is very expensive if the analog out is world class.

ss
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post #105 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Ahhh, leave it to you to go to the last page.

So it looks like the price is going to be $895 + shipping from Oppo. That is a hefty increase, and somewhat surprising.
But then, it is very expensive if the analog out is world class.

ss

Why would I buy another one, when I already have 3?... j/k.

It still remains to be seen exactly how the SE version will be sold and for how much by OPPO.
I have no facts, but as mentioned before in another post, it's possible that only NuForce will be selling direct.
We shall see tomorrow hopefully.

~Dave

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post #106 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Why would I buy another one, when I already have 3?... j/k.

It still remains to be seen exactly how the SE version will be sold and for how much by OPPO.
I have no facts, but as mentioned before in another post, it's possible that only NuForce will be selling direct.
We shall see tomorrow hopefully.

Well if Nuforce is lying about the price of a non mod BD-83SE then I sure they will have at least one cancellation, Me!!!
But I doubt they are lying about any of this. It seems Nuforce is in bed with Oppo.
Here is what the total cost is on the receipt for the BDP-83SE NuForce edition.
I live near Chicago.
Not yet shipped 1 BDP-83SE NuForce Edition $1,165.00
Shipping & Handling (FedEx Home Delivery) : $0.00
Tax (IL) : $0.00
Total: $1,165.00

Better off going with FedEx Home over UPS, Fedex delivers on Saturday but not UPS.

ss
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post #107 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Well if Nuforce is lying about the price of a non mod BD-83SE then I sure they will have at least on cancellation, Me!!!
But I doubt they are lying about any of this. It seems Nuforce is in bed with Oppo.
Here is what the total cost is on the receipt for the BDP-83SE NuForce edition.
I live near Chicago.
Not yet shipped 1 BDP-83SE NuForce Edition $1,165.00
Shipping & Handling (FedEx Home Delivery) : $0.00
Tax (IL) : $0.00
Total: $1,165.00

Better off going with FedEx Home over UPS, Fedex delivers on Saturday but not UPS.

ss

Umm, I think maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying.
I didn't mean to insinuate there was any "lying" going on.
Just that, the price you pay at NuForce is not necessarily the price you will pay at OPPO... even with MSRP remaining at $895.
I was not referring to MSRP when I said we don't know how much OPPO will sell it for.

Maybe OPPO will sell at full retail + shipping as you suspect, and maybe they will offer a pre-order discount like NuForce... who knows.
Once again, hopefully we find out tomorrow.

~Dave

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post #108 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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NuForce has always been a consultant for OPPO, but they have never directly made anything for OPPO. The OPPO BDP-83SE has likely been modified as per guidance from NuForce, but the final design, manufacturing, and sale of this player will be OPPO's. NuForce's edition will, following the same logic, be NuForce exclusive.
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post #109 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 07:47 PM
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I emailed Oppo about this unit earlier today and this was their response:

Quote:
All information related to the BDP-83SE will be released on our website this Monday. We would recommend checking our website then.


Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #110 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Umm, I think maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying.
I didn't mean to insinuate there was any "lying" going on.
Just that, the price you pay at NuForce is not necessarily the price you will pay at OPPO... even with MSRP remaining at $895.
I was not referring to MSRP when I said we don't know how much OPPO will sell it for.

Maybe OPPO will sell at full retail + shipping as you suspect, and maybe they will offer a pre-order discount like NuForce... who knows.
Once again, hopefully we find out tomorrow.

No I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. And yes I did read anything that was said about the oppo upgrade, piratically what was said by NuForce when this upgrade was in R and D.

Bottom line is that I can cancel my order with Nuforce if oppo does have a better per-order discount. But I have never seen oppo discount. So by getting a 10% discount + free shipping represents a savings of about $154. And I don't have to play around sending my oppo somewhere and pay shipping twice.
The only downside to all of this is that I will never know if the Nuforce upgrades have a impact on my analog audio. But knowing what I do know about audiophile upgrades this upgrade should have some benefit, and HQ company's that do this sort of upgrade do have a per-order discount but all of a sudden that discount is gone, without any warnings.

ss
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post #111 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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OPPO will be MSRP and will charge you shipping. Anything below their price will be a deal.
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post #112 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

OPPO will be MSRP and will charge you shipping. Anything below their price will be a deal.

Well, I guess OPPO will not be bombarded with too many orders then.
With the very substantial savings from NuForce... well, you know the rest.

~Dave

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post #113 of 5806 Old 11-08-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Well, I guess OPPO will not be bombarded with too many orders then.
With the very substantial savings from NuForce... well, you know the rest.

Yes that was my thinking also. I was going to do something about a analog upgrade, and whatever that was going to be meant buying a second BD-83. So at least my order is in under the 11/18 shipping date from Nuforce.

ss
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post #114 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 06:22 AM
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Off the top of my head, the only other piece of equipment I know of recently that has any kind of 32 bit DAC would be the Onkyo 5007 AVR. It's not very common, at least from my own observations and especially when you starting getting down below $2500 and such.

I'd never heard of NuForce until this thread and I checked them out. Sounds like their variant on this SE is very compelling.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #115 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 07:27 AM
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With the SE version, is the bass management also upgraded? It seems to me that there are few AVRs that have BM for the multichannel analog inputs, and for systems like mine, that require higher crossovers and individually adjusted speaker distance settings, the upgrade would be worthless, regardless of the superior internals.
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post #116 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

With the SE version, is the bass management also upgraded? It seems to me that there are few AVRs that have BM for the multichannel analog inputs, and for systems like mine, that require higher crossovers and individually adjusted speaker distance settings, the upgrade would be worthless, regardless of the superior internals.

The firmware for all BDP-83 models is the same, so this would indicate that there are no added base management features against what the BDP-83 already offers.

~Dave

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post #117 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 07:39 AM
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There has to be different DAC updates between 83 & 83SE
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post #118 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

The firmware for all BDP-83 models is the same, so this would indicate that there are no added base management features against what the BDP-83 already offers.

Besides, the BM is done in the decoder chip not on the analog board.
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post #119 of 5806 Old 11-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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OPPO Digital Chooses ESS’s New Sabre32 Audio DAC For Its Flagship BDP-83 Special Edition Blu-ray Player (Business Wire) 11/9/09

"FREMONT, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--ESS Technology, Inc., a leading provider of high performance audio/video solutions, today announced that both its new ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra 8-channel Audio DAC and its ES9006 Premier Audio DAC are shipping in volume in OPPO Digital’s latest flagship BDP-83 Special Edition Universal Blu-ray Disc Player.

The ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC is the latest addition to the world’s highest performance and critically acclaimed Sabre32 Reference DAC (ES9018) introduced in early 2009. Unlike conventional sigma-delta (ΣΔ) DACs, the ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC incorporates innovative patented circuits to deliver spectacular music with an unsurpassed sound stage, with up to 128dB dynamic range and 0.0003% (-110dB) total harmonic distortion, and free from clock jitter common in digital audio systems. The patented circuits in the Sabre32 DAC include the 32-bit HyperStream™ modulator, capable of 100% modulation and unconditional stability, the Revolver™ Dynamic Element Matching which ensures the highest performance over an extremely wide audio dynamic range, and a Time Domain Jitter Eliminator to remove the digital jitter that causes distortion.

The ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra Audio DAC supports either 8-channel or stereo conversion from a digital audio input (up to 500kHz sampling rate) in PCM, DSD or SPDIF formats, features click-free soft mute, volume control, de-emphasis, programmable zero detect, per-channel customizable roll-off filter characteristics and consumes less than 100mW.

The adoption of the ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC significantly improves the analog audio performance of the BDP-83 Special Edition Blu-ray player to a level normally found only in expensive audiophile-grade equipment. Audio enthusiasts can now enjoy the BDP-83 Special Edition’s exceptionally wide dynamic range, ultra low distortion, accurate sound stage and jitter-free music clarity, in addition to the already excellent audio/video capabilities of the original BDP-83 Blu-ray player. For highest performance, the BDP-83 Special Edition’s stereo output is powered by the ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra 8-channel DAC configured in Quad Differential Stereo mode, while the 7.1-channel output is powered by the ES9006 Sabre Premier 8-channel DAC.

The ES9006 Sabre Premier 8-channel DAC, with 120dB DNR and -102dB THD, was introduced in 2008 and has been prominently featured and used in many high performance Blu-ray players and other A/V equipment

Jason Liao, CTO & VP of Product Development at OPPO Digital, said: “The Special Edition is an exciting upgrade to the original BDP-83 for the discerning audio enthusiast. The ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC and the ES9006 Sabre Premier DAC combination delivers an unparalleled sound stage and incredible fidelity in both 7.1-channel and stereo modes.” The OPPO BDP-83 Special Edition is a Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player featuring bit-stream and full decoding capability for high resolution audio tracks such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Designed for both home theater viewers and music listeners, it plays DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, Super Audio CD (SACD) and standard CD with excellent video and audio performance in addition to Blu-ray Discs.

Robert Wong, vice-president of marketing and worldwide sales for ESS Technology, said, “We are excited that OPPO Digital has selected both the ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC and the ES9006 Sabre Premier DAC for its new flagship Special Edition player. With the Sabre DACs’ stunning performance and music clarity, audio enthusiasts can now get ultimate fidelity from Blu-ray movies, CDs, DVD-Audio, and SACDs that equals A/V players costing 5 to 10 times the BDP-83 Special Edition’s price. ”

Both the ES9016 Sabre32 Ultra DAC and the ES9006 Sabre Premier DAC are available in 48-LQFP packages. Sample chips, reference design and volume price information are available from ESS or your local ESS distributor and representatives."

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http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/



* Based on Award-Winning BDP-83
* Featuring ESS Sabre32 Ultra DAC

* Elevated Audio Performance
* New Audio and Power Boards

Price: $899.00

BDP-83 Special Edition Upgrade Option for Existing Customers:

Note: The Special Edition enhances only the analog audio connection (Stereo, 5.1ch or 7.1ch).
If you use HDMI connection, then we do not recommend this upgrade.

* This option is only for BDP-83 users who purchased their player before November 9, 2009.
* The upgrade will involve the replacing of the following parts from the customer's original player:

1. Audio Board
2. Power Supply Board
3. Back Panel with RS232 port.

* With the upgrade, the audio performance will be identical to the Special Edition player. However, the upgrade does not include replacing the front panel since it does not affect audio performance. As a result, there will be no “Special Edition” mark printed on the front panel. A Special Edition decal sticker will be provided for you to optionally place on the front panel.
* The cost of the upgrade is $299 while a brand new BDP-83SE costs $899. This represents a $100 saving for existing BDP-83 customers willing to accept the non-replaceable front panel. Customers can pay for the upgrade via our online store.
* This upgrade is available only to customers within the U.S. International customers will have to contact their local reseller.
* We do not offer a trade-in program. We suggest existing customers sell their BDP-83 on eBay and then purchase a brand-new BDP-83SE if they want an official BDP-83SE.
* We require existing BDP-83 owners to ship their BDP-83 to our facility at their cost and pay the upgrade cost in advance. Note that we are not responsible for any units lost or damaged while in transit to us so please sufficiently insure the shipment. Upgraded players are shipped back at our cost within the U.S. via ground service.

BDP-83 Upgrade to Special Edition Price: $299.00

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