2010 New Blu Ray Players Rumor and Discussion Thread - AVS Forum
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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With CES around the corner, we should in short time begin to hear reports of the new crop of blu ray players embracing new technologies like 3D and likely more media streaming features.

I thought to keep a common bulletin board of what's being released, i would cobble a thread together that would keep a master list of all new players. The only restriction will be that the players are released new in 2010.

I will keep a master list with the following feature list:

CE Model Profile Chip 7.1 Analogue Wireless HDMI 3D Netflix Pandora MSRP Note
LG BD550 2 No v1.3 No Yes Yes
LG BD570 2 Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes Same as 550 w wireless
LG BD590 2 Yes Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes HardDrive
Onkyo DV SP807 2 ABT 1030 Yes, Burr Brown No v1.3 No No No $600? Same as Denon 2010
Oppo Unknown 2 Unknown Unknown Unknown v1.3 No Unknown Unknown Unknown
Pansonic DMP-BDT350 2 Yes v1.4 Yes Yes Yes
Pansonic DMP-BD85 2 Yes Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes
Pansonic DMP-BD65 2 No Optional v1.3 No Yes Yes
Pansonic DMP-BD45 2 No No v1.3 No Yes Yes
Samsung BD-C7500 3 Yes v1.4 Yes Yes Yes Slim
Samsung BD-C6900 3 Yes v1.4 Yes Yes Yes
Samsung BD-C6500 2 Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes
Samsung BD-C5500 2 Optional v1.3 No Yes Yes
Sony BDP-S770 3 Yes v1.4 Yes Yes Yes
Sony BDP-S570 2 Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes SACD
Sony BDP-S370 2 Optional v1.3 No Yes Yes SACD
Toshiba BDX2500 2 Yes Optional v1.3 No Yes Yes $200
Toshiba BDX2700 2 Yes Yes v1.3 No Yes Yes $250
Toshiba BDX3000 3 Yes Yes v1.4 Yes Yes Yes 3Q2010


Rumor Tracking

Pioneer not to show new BDPs at CES: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17826302
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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No rumors out yet? We know Panasonic will have some 3D players...any word on the next generation Pioneers? Or should I say Sharps?
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

No rumors out yet? We know Panasonic will have some 3D players...any word on the next generation Pioneers? Or should I say Sharps?

According to this fellow, OPPO has been talking about a new player: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17695254

-Bill
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

No rumors out yet? We know Panasonic will have some 3D players...any word on the next generation Pioneers? Or should I say Sharps?

+1 on the new Panasonic players.

Panasonic will be launching a global advertising campaign tied to AVATAR. It includes a nationwide truck tour of Panasonic's 3D plasma and Blu-ray player as well as advertising and AVATAR product sales tie-ins. AVATAR will be released to theaters worldwide on December 18.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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+1 on the new Panasonic players.

Panasonic will be launching a global advertising campaign tied to AVATAR. It includes a nationwide truck tour of Panasonic's 3D plasma and Blu-ray player as well as advertising and AVATAR product sales tie-ins. AVATAR will be released to theaters worldwide on December 18.

presumably they will have to roll them out with 3d plasmas...anyone hear what the retro capabilities will be for us folks not willing to part with their current display?

i would imagine lg and samsung will also have 3d capable players out...will take a year or two for the denons, pioneers, and similar to incorporate these new features
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:46 PM
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Does anyone have a link to what benefits this whole 3d thing provides and how it is different from the crappy at home glasses we have now? Any article on this?
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have a link to what benefits this whole 3d thing provides and how it is different from the crappy at home glasses we have now? Any article on this?

use the search function. there are tons of discussion threads on this and this is not the forum to discuss the merit of 3D.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:32 AM
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Sony is also expected to have 3D BD players and displays in the 2nd half of 2010. Hopefully both Panasonic and Sony will also release new 2010 models of their front projectors that support the 3D input requirements. 3D also requires the next generation of HDMI to support the double frame rate requirement and I doubt there is any simple firmware upgrade path for any existing BD player or display (i.e, will require new hardware). Also I would assume there are no current AVRs that will able to handle it either. Thus a full chain of next generation HDMI devices would be required to ideally support a fully compatible 3D home theater setup (although I assume a current generation AVR could be used for the audio but not for the HDMI video switching).

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Old 12-11-2009, 10:51 AM
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Sony is also expected to have 3D BD players and displays in the 2nd half of 2010. Hopefully both Panasonic and Sony will also release new 2010 models of their front projectors that support the 3D input requirements. 3D also requires the next generation of HDMI to support the double frame rate requirement and I doubt there is no simple firmware upgrapde path for any BD player or display. Also I would assume there are no current AVRs that will able to handle it either, full chain of next generation HDMI devices would be required to ideally support a fully 3D home theather setup (although I assume a current generation AVR could be used for the audio but not for the HDMI video switching).

How this entails to Blu-ray is highly dependent on convincing consumers to pay a premium over your typical HDTV AV setup. Its one thing to see a 3D movie in the theater but reproducing that at home is a challenge. Panasonic and Sony are thinking they have the next hot thing by selling 3D ready displays and players using shutter glasses, but not every great idea goes places.

BTW we still have Blu-ray Managed Copy that vendors are suppose to support in 2010. So far zip against that.

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Old 12-11-2009, 11:08 AM
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I couldn't care less for this 3D stuff. I don't want to watch TV with a glass on my face and I bet the movies that I like won't be the ones available in 3D. Not fan of "march of the Penguins" or "Transformers" kind of stuff. I am starting to believe in movie streaming, though. Netflix will have much more availability in 2010 and it's very likely the bitrates will improve and 5.1 audio is already in development. I want a Pioneer or Panasonic with DLNA and Netflix, don't like the Korean players and the Sony DVD upscaling.

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Old 12-11-2009, 11:13 AM
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For me, I gotta wait till the 3D technology improves. 3D images still soft as compared to 2D images.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:31 PM
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For me, I gotta wait till the 3D technology improves. 3D images still soft as compared to 2D images.

The version due to be introduced in 2010 with BD will have full 1080p (i.e., 1920 x 1080) resolution for each the alternating right and left images so there should be no fall-off is resolution as compared to 2D as long the HDTV can do the 1080p resolution at a full 120Hz.

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Old 12-12-2009, 09:03 AM
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$600? Meh. And I have absolutely no interest in 3D players either.

I just want a new CAD$99.99 Blu-ray player. Anything half decent will do. I'd gladly buy another 2nd tier brand player if it works as well as my Funai Profile 1.1 player.

I have a Sony Profile 2.0 player in my home theatre, and that Funai 1.1 player in my living room. When that CAD$99.99 Profile 2.0 player is available locally, I'll buy a third player. It will go into my living room, and the Profile 1.1 player will go into my home office.

My days of spending more than $250 for a video player are long since over. Hell, I bought a DVD player in 1998 for $299, and given that I got $50 for selling the free movie that came with it, it's more like $249... and that's almost a dozen years ago.

So, any possibilities? Even a US$129.99 MSRP player will be of interest, because I'd probably be able to find that on sale locally somewhere for close to that CAD$99.99 price point a few months after its release.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

The version due to be introduced in 2010 with BD will have full 1080p (i.e., 1920 x 1080) resolution for each the alternating right and left images so there should be no fall-off is resolution as compared to 2D as long the HDTV can do the 1080p resolution at a full 120Hz.

theoretically 120hz will not be needed. pioneer proved that with 3:3 interpolation as the minimum to avoid flicker from 24fps sources. one would guess that the 3d player swill send out two streams of 24fps, right?
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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do we think panny will introduce a higher end player with the 3d spec?
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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Everyone rest in peace, and let 3D pass on by
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:49 PM
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With 'Avatar' close at hand, the Blu-ray 3D spec is launched

Now that the theatrical release of James Cameron's Avatar is only hours away, the Blu-Ray Disc Association has announced the final release of the Blu-ray 3D specification.

During Panasonic's keynote at CES 2009, Cameron spoke about the production of Avatar and his collaboration with Panasonic on the acceleration of 3D Blu-ray technology. The film, which debuts nationwide at 12:01 am tonight, was filmed with new stereoscopic cameras that were still in development as filming took place. Panasonic, as well as other Blu-ray Disc Association member companies, devoted floorspace at CES to showing off the possibilities of 3D in the home.

Today, Victor Matsuda, chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association's Global Promotions Committee said, "Throughout this year, moviegoers have shown an overwhelming preference for 3D when presented with the option to see a theatrical release in either 3D or 2D. We believe this demand for 3D content will carry over into the home now that we have, in Blu-ray Disc, a medium that can deliver a quality Full HD 3D experience to the living room."

The BDA says that the Blu-ray 3D specification encodes 3D video using the Multiview Video Coding (MVC) codec, an extension to the ITU-T H.264 Advanced Video Coding (AVC) codec currently supported by all Blu-ray Disc players.

"MPEG4-MVC compresses both left and right eye views with a typical 50% overhead compared to equivalent 2D content, and can provide full 1080p resolution backward compatibility with current 2D Blu-ray Disc players. The specification also incorporates enhanced graphic features for 3D," a statement from the group said.

A BD-3D player will be able to be hooked up to any display and output three dimensional imagery, the BDA said today, and the most popular Blu-ray player of all time, Sony's PlayStation 3, has been taken into consideration in the spec. The consoles will reportedly be able to support the discs.

"3D playback will require a new player in most cases," Pioneer's Andy Parsons, Chairman of Promotion at the Blu-ray Disc Association told Betanews this morning. "Some existing playback systems might be capable of a retroactive upgrade to 3D playback if they were designed to accommodate it, but this would most likely be the exception and not the rule. The new 3D specifications do provide a way for 3D titles to be played in 2D on existing players if they are authored this way -- this is a studio decision."

So to answer the question: Blu-ray 3D discs are designed to be compatible with standard BD players, they just won't be in 3D when played back in one.

The Spec will be available to manufacturers soon, and the BDA expects the first Blu-ray 3D products to be available in 2010.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:50 PM
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3D Blu-ray Standard Approved
Blueprint avoids VHS/Beta-type war of 3D TV for the home

December 17, 2009


As the wild anticipation surrounding Jim Cameron's 3D Avatar heightens, a milestone has been reached that will help bring theatrical-quality versions Avatar and other 3D studio titles into the home.

The Blu-Ray Disc Associationa consortium of leading companies including Sony, Panasonic, Philips, LG and Samsungon Wednesday announced technical spec for a standardized 3D Blu-Ray format.

Hopefully forestalling the format wars that occurred between Beta and VHS and, more recently, Blu-ray and HD DVD, the new specs provide a standard blueprint for studios, the electronics industry and other stakeholders.

Until a standard was defined, manufacturers have been unwilling to move forward with Blu-ray players that could bring 3D into the home.

The spec includes characteristics including HD (1080p) resolution for each eye and backward compatibility -- meaning that standard Blu-ray discs will play in a 3D player (although not in 3D).

It also ensures that Blu-ray 3D products will deliver the 3D image to any compatible 3D display, regardless of whether that display uses LCD, Plasma or other technology and regardless of what 3D technology the display uses to deliver the image to the viewer's eyes.

"Throughout this year, moviegoers have shown an overwhelming preference for 3D when presented with the option to see a theatrical release in either 3D or 2D, said Victor Matsuda, chairman, BDA Global Promotions Committee, in a statement. We believe this demand for 3D content will carry over into the home now that we have, in Blu-ray Disc, a medium that can deliver a quality Full HD 3D experience to the living room.

A massive launch of the new format -- including demonstrations of players, support for game consoles and feature film titles on the format -- is being planned for January's 2010 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

So far, the digital 3D format is considered a success for theater owners, who have been able to charge a premium of roughly $3 over the regular ticket price for 3D hits, including Up, Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs and Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs.

More than a dozen 3D titles came to theaters in 2009 -- the biggest, "Avatar," due to arrive at midnight Thursday -- and a greater number of 3D productions are planned for 2010 and beyond.

But there are still a limited number of 3D-capable theaters, so the 3D Blu-ray format gives studios a new way to reach more consumers, while providing a new outlet with which to amortize their 3D production investment into the home market.

Following product introductions at CES, many execs expect that product will begin to reach the shelves during the second quarter of next year, although studios have been silent about specific titles planned for release.
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:02 AM
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someone should add the upcoming Oppo player to the thread here...
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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someone should add the upcoming Oppo player to the thread here...

added but no info yet
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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any leaks pre CES?
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:34 PM
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I'm also waiting for the news to come out.

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:22 PM
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I'm curious about the new Oppo: We know there is a new model coming, should be cheaper than the 83, speculation about not so good DVD upconversion (no ABT chip ?). What I would like to know is if there is any intel on the streaming (if any) capability. I know Oppo is not for amateurs who like Netflix but I'm looking for a reliable player capable of streaming both Amazon and Netflix and a better quality than the cheap Panasonic and Sony. I don't like Samsung or LG either.

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:31 PM
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.....any word on the next generation Pioneers? Or should I say Sharps?

Now that's a good question!

Although 3D has not piqued my interest, the new Oppo player has.

Edit: Speaking of the Oppo, I hope it maintains the option for "source direct" output.

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:35 PM
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I'm curious about the new Oppo: We know there is a new model coming, should be cheaper than the 83, speculation about not so good DVD upconversion (no ABT chip ?). What I would like to know is if there is any intel on the streaming (if any) capability. I know Oppo is not for amateurs who like Netflix but I'm looking for a reliable player capable of streaming both Amazon and Netflix and a better quality than the cheap Panasonic and Sony. I don't like Samsung or LG either.

I suspect it is very unlikely it will have what you want.

DVD performance not so good as ABT can still be pretty good.

-Bill
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:48 PM
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DVD performance not so good as ABT can still be pretty good.

-Bill

That's true. My hunch is that they will keep the ABT, this is not very expensive . The audio portion will probably be different, perhaps targeting only people who HDMIed everything already and don't care for the excellent analog output. Again, pure speculation from my side . Only thing I actually heard from Oppo customer service is that they are working on a cheaper player with some sort of DLNA implementation. They also said they are "studying" Netflix . Got this on an email.

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:52 PM
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I suspect it is very unlikely it will have what you want.

DVD performance not so good as ABT can still be pretty good.

-Bill

+1

My Pioneer 151 does a very good job of upconversion; IMO, a little better than my 980H so I just have it output 480i (this ability is one reason I purchased the 980H).

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Old 12-31-2009, 03:00 PM
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It is hard for me to understand why all 2.0 players don't have Netflix and othter streaming. It would seem that the basic hardware for 2.0 meets the streaming requirements.
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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That's true. My hunch is that they will keep the ABT, this is not very expensive . The audio portion will probably be different, perhaps targeting only people who HDMIed everything already and don't care for the excellent analog output. Again, pure speculation from my side . Only thing I actually heard from Oppo customer service is that they are working on a cheaper player with some sort of DLNA implementation. They also said they are "studying" Netflix . Got this on an email.

abt is expensive. the least expensive player with the an abt chip is the oppo 83 at $500. The next cheapest player with an abt chip (albeit a lesser one) is the denon 2010 at $599.
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:54 PM
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That's true. My hunch is that they will keep the ABT, this is not very expensive . The audio portion will probably be different, perhaps targeting only people who HDMIed everything already and don't care for the excellent analog output. Again, pure speculation from my side . Only thing I actually heard from Oppo customer service is that they are working on a cheaper player with some sort of DLNA implementation. They also said they are "studying" Netflix . Got this on an email.

I seriously doubt the new player will have ABT. Oppo described the new player as "essentially a 980H with BD added". The 980H does not use ABT so I doubt it will be in the new BD player.

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