Official New Sony S370/S470 Owners Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 2849 Old 11-17-2011, 03:38 PM
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I doubt Sony will bother offering serious updates to any out-of-production models. My 370 doesn't support Vudu, but a 380 I bought for the bedroom does, even though they are effectively identical otherwise.

Basically, most updates will be for bugs and other similar issues. I doubt you will get new features or services anymore.

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post #2612 of 2849 Old 11-18-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl
UPDATE: Ok, I think I know what is happening. I assumed the problem was network related, but it turns out that it isn't. I had the Sony player connected to the TV via component video cables because the TV only has one HDMI input and it is in use with another box. I temporarily connected the Sony to the TV's HDMI and it will consistently get HD from Amazon. In fact, if I have the HDMI and Component both connected from the Sony to the TV at the same time, I can switch between the two inputs with the TV's remote and it plays in 1920x1080 on the HDMI connection and 720x480 on the component. Apparently, even though the S470 pre-dates the 01/01/2011 mandate for HD only over HDMI, Sony has implemented it on this older model, at least for internet video such as Amazon. Oddly, it will play Blu-ray discs in 1920x1080 over component, but apparently not streaming video from the internet. The Panny will play Amazon HD over component but it is a year older than the S470.

I will return the S470 for a refund.

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Originally Posted by snidely View Post

We got two "old" S370 units because one of our 50" Panny plasmas is 5 or 6 years old and only has component. We bought them early last spring. As I understand it, component wouldn't pass a lot of HD sources on units made after a certain date - which is why we bought one box. Rather than learn 2 diff units, we bought the same model for our other home.
As I recall, the S470 is the same as our S370, except for wifi. We have no trouble getting HD via Netflix. (At least I think it's HD - looks a lot better than SD. Each time we start a stream from Netflix, the S370 does a check of the internet "speed". We have a high speed internet connection.

Sorry, I can't figure out how to use Multiquote so this posting is a little messed up in the quote section above.

Thanks for the info about the S370 being able to get HD from Netflix. Unfortunately, I consistently, and without fail, cannot get an HD connection from Amazon video on the S470 when using component cables. I can, without fail, get the HD connection when using HDMI. So I conclude that Sony snuck in an early implementation of "HD only via HDMI" on these units for those that were manufactured later in the model year. If that is true, it may be that your S370's were manufactured before mu S470.

However, something that conflicts with my conclusion about an early implementation is that I can get 1920x1080i on the S470 with component cables when connecting to other video services, such as YouTube. (I don't subscribe to Netflix streaming so I can't check that.) And I can get 1920x1080i when playing a Blu-ray disk over component. It doesn't seem reasonable to think Sony would have done an early implementation for just Amazon video. So I am not sure what is going on. But I solved the problem another way - see below.

I ended up not returning the S470. I bought an HDMI to Component converter that allows me to connect the S470 to the converter via HDMI and output component from the converter. It works well. The S470 will connect to Amazon video at 1920x1080i, because it only has the HDMI cable connected to it, and the converter outputs 1920x1080i to my TV over component cables. This solution has worked well so far, but cost me another $100 for the converter.
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post #2613 of 2849 Old 11-18-2011, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

...it plays in 1920x1080 on the HDMI connection and 720x480 on the component. Apparently, even though the S470 pre-dates the 01/01/2011 mandate for HD only over HDMI, Sony has implemented it on this older model, at least for internet video such as Amazon. -----
So I conclude that Sony snuck in an early implementation of "HD only via HDMI" on these units for those that were manufactured later in the model year. If that is true, it may be that your S370's were manufactured before mu S470.
I can get 1920x1080i YouTube. I can get 1920x1080i when playing a Blu-ray disk over component.

I ended up not returning the S470. I bought an HDMI to Component converter that allows me to connect the S470 to the converter via HDMI and output component from the converter. It works well. The S470 will connect to Amazon video at 1920x1080i, because it only has the HDMI cable connected to it, and the converter outputs 1920x1080i to my TV over component cables. This solution has worked well so far, but cost me another $100 for the converter.

That's an interesting one. Sony has a very information collective / intrusive setup. Requiring you to register you device with Sony always being the necessary conduit for you to stream things from sites like Amazon. It's not out of the realm that a quarry is done as to which output you are using and the output adjusts accordingly. Perhaps its has something to do with Amazon trying to comply with the BS!
I will try and recreate this situation in the next couple of days.


Send a problem report to Sony and see what they say. ALSO try searching if you don't find anything then post a question on the Sony Forums message boards.
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post #2614 of 2849 Old 11-18-2011, 11:04 PM
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Tried poking through here, but 175 pages is just too much...

Can I use third party wifi dongles with this unit or am I stuck with the Sony? I know I could use a bridge, but I'm trying to use a dongle I have laying around. Tia.
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post #2615 of 2849 Old 11-18-2011, 11:33 PM
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I think that the Sony USB WiFi dongle is the only supported dongle.

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post #2616 of 2849 Old 11-19-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakedeye View Post

Tried poking through here, but 175 pages is just too much...

Can I use third party wifi dongles with this unit or am I stuck with the Sony? I know I could use a bridge, but I'm trying to use a dongle I have laying around. Tia.

Unfortunately, no. The player is hard-coded to only recognize that specific WiFi dongle.

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post #2617 of 2849 Old 11-19-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post



I ended up not returning the S470. I bought an HDMI to Component converter that allows me to connect the S470 to the converter via HDMI and output component from the converter. It works well. The S470 will connect to Amazon video at 1920x1080i, because it only has the HDMI cable connected to it, and the converter outputs 1920x1080i to my TV over component cables. This solution has worked well so far, but cost me another $100 for the converter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DA1745 View Post

That's an interesting one. Sony has a very information collective / intrusive setup. Requiring you to register you device with Sony always being the necessary conduit for you to stream things from sites like Amazon. It's not out of the realm that a quarry is done as to which output you are using and the output adjusts accordingly. Perhaps its has something to do with Amazon trying to comply with the BS!
I will try and recreate this situation in the next couple of days.


Send a problem report to Sony and see what they say. ALSO try searching if you don't find anything then post a question on the Sony Forums message boards.



Thanks. I will call Sony Monday, but I might return the unit instead. My work-around, an HDMI to component converter, broke after one day of use.
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post #2618 of 2849 Old 11-20-2011, 02:37 PM
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Tried to play "The Beaver", and it gets to the main menu, but there's nothing there. You see a bunch of PostIt notes, and one is placed that I assume should fill with the menu, but it's blank. Hitting PLAY or ENTER does nothing. Firmware is latest. I'm trying a few tricks like clearing the BD data from the USB drive to see that helps.

Update: Letting it sit for awhile until the menu looped seems to have fixed it.

PS: Tried to play "Limitless". It has UNSKIPPABLE FULL-LENGTH previews. After the second one, I hit STOP. I may try again later if I feel like I can go do something else for several minutes. I sure hope it has some form of bookmarking. If not, I doubt I will ever finish the movie. Thankfully, it's also available for streaming, although only at 720p on my system.

Both of these disks are via Netflix. Neither look like obvious rental versions.

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post #2619 of 2849 Old 11-20-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

-------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the info about the S370 being able to get HD from Netflix. Unfortunately, I consistently, and without fail, cannot get an HD connection from Amazon video on the S470 when using component cables. I can, without fail, get the HD connection when using HDMI. So I conclude that Sony snuck in an early implementation of "HD only via HDMI" on these units for those that were manufactured later in the model year. If that is true, it may be that your S370's were manufactured before mu S470.

However, something that conflicts with my conclusion about an early implementation is that I can get 1920x1080i on the S470 with component cables when connecting to other video services, such as YouTube. (I don't subscribe to Netflix streaming so I can't check that.) And I can get 1920x1080i when playing a Blu-ray disk over component. It doesn't seem reasonable to think Sony would have done an early implementation for just Amazon video. So I am not sure what is going on. But I solved the problem another way - see below.

I ended up not returning the S470. I bought an HDMI to Component converter that allows me to connect the S470 to the converter via HDMI and output component from the converter. It works well. The S470 will connect to Amazon video at 1920x1080i, because it only has the HDMI cable connected to it, and the converter outputs 1920x1080i to my TV over component cables. This solution has worked well so far, but cost me another $100 for the converter.

I am assuming that I am getting HD quality via Netflix. When we first subscribed, our expectations of getting quality streaming video were low. The quality has amazed us because we didn't expect much. I don't know how to scientifically determine that what we are viewing is HD. Our eyes says it is HD. We watch a lotof streaming of old programs that were not HD originally (X-Files, ST, Next Generation) and the quality is much better than what we remember seeing on our old tube sets. The movies that are definitely HD that we watch seem to be much higher quality than it would be watching a VHS or even DVD copy.
What does the "downgraded" stream from Amazon look.
like?

I called Sony tech support before ordering our 2nd S370. The first one was hooked up via HDMI, so it didn't matter. I asked if component would pass HD from all HD sources (disc, internet). I was told "yes". Of course the rep may not have known what he was talking about. In doing research, tho, it was said that the blocking of HD via component would only take affect on decks produced after 12/31/10. I can't compare the two connections because one deck is in Miami, the other in Oakland.
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post #2620 of 2849 Old 11-20-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

PS: Tried to play "Limitless". It has UNSKIPPABLE FULL-LENGTH previews. After the second one, I hit STOP. I may try again later if I feel like I can go do something else for several minutes. I sure hope it has some form of bookmarking. If not, I doubt I will ever finish the movie. Thankfully, it's also available for streaming, although only at 720p on my system.

Tried "Limitless" again. I let it play for a few minutes, tried the green-button for a bookmark (no popup about a bookmark saved), then hit STOP. When I restarted, it started with the freakin' previews, so obviously not even auto-bookmarks, at least not without going through the previews all over again. I'm shipping the disk back, unwatched. It's a 20th Century Fox disk. You are warned.

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post #2621 of 2849 Old 11-24-2011, 06:46 PM
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I had this player for almost a year, and it used to be a great player, but the latest firmware screwed it up. I started noticing a problem with the picture quality that wasn't there before, but at first I blamed the movies for it. To me, it seemed like an encoding error. What happens is that the movie shows a rather noticeable grain in dark scenes, and also every second or so there's a frame that is different from the rest, a little brighter and grainier, which is probably where the change of GOP is located. Also, if I press pause, the frozen frame shows an excessive amount of grain, and advancing frame by frame looks, like there's a short flash every time I advance one frame. All the picture filters in the player are off.

Like I said, at first I thought it was a movie poorly encoded, but over time I noticed that most movies had this problem, and yesterday after watching "Super 8" exhibit the same problem, I took it out and put it in my older Panasonic DMP-BD65. I had written down a time in the movie where this was especially noticeable, which was minute 54 for the rest of that sequence.

Well, the Panasonic was perfect. No added grain, no noticeable change of GOP frame, and pressing pause doesn't turn the picture into a grainy mess. So that's when I realized, Sony really screwed up this player with the latest update, because I don't remember seeing this at all since I bought it until a few months ago. The Sony support page for this player shows the latest update is M03.R.769 from 6/28/11, however I think I probably got it around September because I don't have the player connected to the internet, I only connect it every few months in case there's a firmware update.

So what I would like to know is, is there a way to revert to an earlier firmware update, and if so, is there a repository where I can find them? The Sony website only seems to have the latest one. Or, is there a way to revert it to the factory firmware, or once the update is applied, I'm stuck with it?

Thanks

Sebastian
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post #2622 of 2849 Old 11-24-2011, 07:08 PM
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One option is contacting tech support. They might release a fix. They still haven't (as far as I am aware) fixed the BD Live accessing internet when disabled in the settings for the BDP-S370. I think they have for the 470 though.

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post #2623 of 2849 Old 11-24-2011, 08:08 PM
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OK, I think I got ahead of myself on this one. It turns out that the last time I had used the Panasonic player months ago I was using custom picture settings and the sharpness was set a few steps lower than normal. Once I reset all the picture settings in the Panasonic player, it was showing the same grain as the Sony did. So it turns out that many Blu-ray movies these days are encoded like crap.

I was going to delete my original post, but I left it in case somebody else notices the same problem. In the Sony player, I was able to smooth this annoying change of GOP grain flash by setting the FNR to 2, even though at 1 it's already much better than none. This is under the video settings pressing the option button.

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post #2624 of 2849 Old 11-25-2011, 05:56 AM
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I wonder if digitally filmed movies are deliberately adding fake grain to emulate film?

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post #2625 of 2849 Old 11-25-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

I wonder if digitally filmed movies are deliberately adding fake grain to emulate film?

I doubt that the cameras themselves can add grain. That is done in post. However, I seriously doubt that Super 8 was filmed with digital cameras. And even if they add grain deliberately, the grain is added uniformly across frames.

I think what's going on here is that one of the places that does encoding for major movies started using a different software or hardware that is rather poor quality, or maybe they don't know how to set the parameters correctly. I'm a videographer, and when I encode my videos using the x264 encoder, this doesn't happen at all, even in the darkest scenes.

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post #2626 of 2849 Old 11-25-2011, 09:39 AM
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Super 8 would not play on my 370 - lady at Blockbuster asked "have you updated your player" - to which I responded why would that matter. Anyone else have these issues?
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post #2627 of 2849 Old 11-25-2011, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post

Super 8 would not play on my 370 - lady at Blockbuster asked "have you updated your player" - to which I responded why would that matter. Anyone else have these issues?

I guess that's the reason behind firmware updates. BDs are a lot more complicated than DVDs, and they might need some new coding for the antipiracy protection that is in a firmware update.

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post #2628 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

Thanks. I will call Sony Monday, but I might return the unit instead. My work-around, an HDMI to component converter, broke after one day of use.

Curious about the resolution with Sony, dalemccl. Did you come up with a way to get Amazon content in HD via component?

I'm primarily interested in getting Blu-ray content in HD via component, and I believe you said that does work on your S470, correct?

Would you mind sharing what seller you bought the S470 from on Amazon? Assuming your purchase was recent, it seems Amazon doesn't sell them directly anymore - you have to use a Marketplace vendor, and I've never heard of any of them.

Thanks!
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post #2629 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

Thanks. I will call Sony Monday, but I might return the unit instead. My work-around, an HDMI to component converter, broke after one day of use.

If you only have one HDMI input why don't you get a 4 port switch? A good one that switches automatically only costs $21 from Meritline and will make your life a lot easier.
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post #2630 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantt View Post

Curious about the resolution with Sony, dalemccl. Did you come up with a way to get Amazon content in HD via component?

I'm primarily interested in getting Blu-ray content in HD via component, and I believe you said that does work on your S470, correct?

Would you mind sharing what seller you bought the S470 from on Amazon? Assuming your purchase was recent, it seems Amazon doesn't sell them directly anymore - you have to use a Marketplace vendor, and I've never heard of any of them.

Thanks!

The vendor on Amazon was Electronica Direct, also known as Comp-U-Plus Rockland Inc. It showed "Electronica Direct" as the vendor on the Amazon product page, but the e-mail receipt said "Comp-U-Plus Rockland, Inc". They seem to be the same company and are highly rated on rellerratings.com I just checked and they still show up on Amazon. They also have the S470 on their own website for $24 less than their Amazon price. (Shipping costs may eliminate some of the $24 savings.)
http://www.compuplus.com/search.php?terms=sony+s470&x=0&y=0


As far as getting HD over component. Yes, it did do 1080 when playing Blu-ray discs with a component cable connection (1080i if I recall correctly, not 1080p, but I may be remembering wrong so it could have been 1080p -- it was definitely 1080 though and looked HD like Blu-rays should look.) I never did get it to do HD over component from Amazon streaming so I returned it to Amazon for a refund.
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post #2631 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 08:31 AM
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The vendor on Amazon was Electronica Direct, also known as Comp-U-Plus Rockland Inc. It showed "Electronica Direct" as the vendor on the Amazon product page, but the e-mail receipt said "Comp-U-Plus Rockland, Inc". They seem to be the same company and are highly rated on rellerratings.com I just checked and they still show up on Amazon. They also have the S470 on their own website for $24 less than their Amazon price. (Shipping costs may eliminate some of the $24 savings.)
http://www.compuplus.com/search.php?terms=sony+s470&x=0&y=0


As far as getting HD over component. Yes, it did do 1080 when playing Blu-ray discs with a component cable connection (1080i if I recall correctly, not 1080p, but I may be remembering wrong so it could have been 1080p -- it was definitely 1080 though and looked HD like Blu-rays should look.) I never did get it to do HD over component from Amazon streaming so I returned it to Amazon for a refund.

Thanks so much for the info. I assume it came new in a sealed/unopened box. You must have given a lot of weight to the credibility of that seller because there's a significant price premium over the cheapest Marketplace seller (and eBay sellers).

Thanks for confirming the HD over component. Strange about the Amazon steaming limitation. Do you suspect a combination of the S470 testing for a flag and Amazon (or their content providers) having set that flag in their streams?
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post #2632 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks so much for the info. I assume it came new in a sealed/unopened box. You must have given a lot of weight to the credibility of that seller because there's a significant price premium over the cheapest Marketplace seller (and eBay sellers).

Thanks for confirming the HD over component. Strange about the Amazon steaming limitation. Do you suspect a combination of the S470 testing for a flag and Amazon (or their content providers) having set that flag in their streams?

It was sealed. It was fulfilled by Amazon and they slapped shipping labels on the Sony box instead of putting the Sony box in a brown shipping box. When I bought it, it was $122. I see that it is $140 from the same seller today.

As for why it wouldn't stream Amazon at HD over component I am not sure. It could be what you said. Using the web content (Netflix, Amazon, and all the rest) requires a one-time registration with Sony (not product registration -- but registration to access the content). Another poster suggested that something in that registration process may introduce the limitation.

I called Amazon VOD and they claim they are doing nothing to prevent HD over component, so they said it must be something Sony is doing. I was able to get HD from Youtube, so the limitation doesn't apply to all content providers. In fact, the Amazon VOD menus were in 1080i. It wasn't until movies actually began loading that it became SD. The resolution readout on my TV showed 1080i right up to the point that the movie began loading, then it changed to 480i while the "Loading" screen progressed and during the movie itself.
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post #2633 of 2849 Old 11-29-2011, 01:52 PM
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Anyone know of any problems playing the BD of the movie Casino on the S370 or similar player?

I don't see any damage on the disc, but the picture freezes at various times during playback. Don't have the problem with any other discs.
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post #2634 of 2849 Old 11-30-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post

Super 8 would not play on my 370 - lady at Blockbuster asked "have you updated your player" - to which I responded why would that matter. Anyone else have these issues?

I just got my copy of "Super 8" from Netflix today. It's not obviously rental, but is just a basic blue color with clear printing. I started it, and it was fine. Just a Paramount logo, then directly to the main menu. No obvious extras. It does have BD Java start (2 sets of rolling icons), and does have at least manual bookmarking.

My 370 is network connected and has a USB drive for storage.

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post #2635 of 2849 Old 12-01-2011, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mujo View Post

Hello again!

I have a 120Hz TV and all my Blu-Rays are showing up at 1080P/60 (even though they are 24fps). I have 24fps set to auto....whats going on? If it helps to know, I have the 'smooth motion' effects all off.

i believe that has to do with the movie/video setting on the BD player. i cant remember what the setting says but just change it from what it is now. its been bugged from the beginning...
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post #2636 of 2849 Old 12-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

i believe that has to do with the movie/video setting on the BD player. i cant remember what the setting says but just change it from what it is now. its been bugged from the beginning...

If you are referring to the settings found at Screen Settings/Cinema Conversion Mode/Auto or Video, that isn't likely the problem. With the S370, if I play a DVD that is a movie source, it will output 24p with either of those settings.

I believe that the Video setting is used to force an alternate pulldown method.

Most likely, either the display doesn't accept 24p, or it doesn't accept 24p automatically. Some displays have a manual setting to enable 24p. I would check the display user manual for such a setting.
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post #2637 of 2849 Old 12-01-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post


My 370 is network connected and has a USB drive for storage.

Andy -
We have two 370 units. How do you make use of USB drives? IOW, what do they do for you? I am ignorant about this.
Thanks.

Oh - what size are they?
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post #2638 of 2849 Old 12-02-2011, 03:29 PM
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It's just a standard USB flash drive. The recommended minimum is 1G, but you'll have a tough time finding one that size these days. I have a Sony 4G, but originally used an ancient Fuji 256M when an HP I had bought didn't work right. The drive is used by some disks to store information. On the 370, you have to plug it into the back port.

Also, a network connection could allow the disk to download updated menus to fix issues with some players, although it's more commonly used to spam 'news' on the main menu.

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post #2639 of 2849 Old 12-02-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

Andy -
We have two 370 units. How do you make use of USB drives? IOW, what do they do for you? I am ignorant about this.
Thanks.

Oh - what size are they?

USB drives can be used for storing and playing video, music and photos through the player, by plugging the drive into the port on the front of the unit. Then from the home menu, select video, music or photo.

I've used the photo feature and it is very slow and has a severely limited folder tree depth, compared to the photo feature built into my display. I tried it a few times and dismissed it.
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post #2640 of 2849 Old 12-03-2011, 12:50 PM
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Any opinions on the streaming quality with cinemanow? How does it compare to netflix or amazon?
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