Official New Sony S370/S470 Owners Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2881 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 11:12 AM
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Try turning Deep Color from Auto to Off.
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post #2882 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
HI all. I'm very late to the Sony BD S370 party, but was looking for a cheap player for my SACDs. Unfortunately I'm having a real issue getting the HDMI to output through my Denon AVRX2000.

If I go directly to my TV I can get video no problems, the optical output will send stereo, but I actually really only need the 5 channel out via HDMI for the SACD which is not working.

When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

I've tried turning on/off all HDMI control options anbd changed the order of turning on the denon/sony/pioneer tv.

I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.

I have tried different inputs on the AVR and different HDMI cables.

From what i've read here there are some people using this BDP with this AVR so why am I having a problem???

Clearly i'm not alone in experiencing issues with HDMI but for it just to completely refuse to send signals is very strange.

I'd like not to have to completely disassemble my HT to solve this, but is disconnecting/reconnecting all HDMI inputs the recommended solution?

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.



Thanks for or any input.

I recall having fun with settings in the DBP series over the years working out kinks in teh digital out especially with SACDs. I plugged my 370 into my receiver and can only get 44.1/2.0 from the optical out. It has to be set to PCM (Dolby Digital gets you nothing) and may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer.

For SACD, if the HDMI out is set to PCM, the stream is dropped to 176.4/5.1 and sounds very very good. Set for DSD, I get DSD/5.1 out. I haven't been able to get any multichannel or high rez out of the optical out.


I hope turning off deep color works!
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post #2883 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
HI all. I'm very late to the Sony BD S370 party, but was looking for a cheap player for my SACDs. Unfortunately I'm having a real issue getting the HDMI to output through my Denon AVRX2000.

If I go directly to my TV I can get video no problems, the optical output will send stereo, but I actually really only need the 5 channel out via HDMI for the SACD which is not working.

When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

I've tried turning on/off all HDMI control options anbd changed the order of turning on the denon/sony/pioneer tv.

I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.

I have tried different inputs on the AVR and different HDMI cables.

From what i've read here there are some people using this BDP with this AVR so why am I having a problem???

Clearly i'm not alone in experiencing issues with HDMI but for it just to completely refuse to send signals is very strange.

I'd like not to have to completely disassemble my HT to solve this, but is disconnecting/reconnecting all HDMI inputs the recommended solution?

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.



Thanks for or any input.
https://docs.sony.com/release/BDPS370_BX37.pdf

The user manual
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post #2884 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
...
I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.
...

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.
...
Hi. I'm not sure about the Denon + BDP connectivity problems, sorry. I plug mine directly into my TV via HDMI and use optical for audio since my receiver doesn't have HDMI.

I haven't had any issues with the Sony's firmware updates. Have you contacted Denon support?

Anyways, optical doesn't have the bandwidth for 5.1 PCM, so 2 channel PCM and the bitstreamed Dolby Digital (upto 640Kbit/s) and DTS (upto 1.5Mbit/s) is all that's possible via optical, I'm sure. The BDP would need to be set to output 2 channel PCM for SACDs via optical, and you might wish to set it to select the 2 channel SACD layer.

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post #2885 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlarkin_dc View Post
I recall having fun with settings in the DBP series over the years working out kinks in teh digital out especially with SACDs. I plugged my 370 into my receiver and can only get 44.1/2.0 from the optical out. It has to be set to PCM (Dolby Digital gets you nothing) and may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer.

For SACD, if the HDMI out is set to PCM, the stream is dropped to 176.4/5.1 and sounds very very good. Set for DSD, I get DSD/5.1 out. I haven't been able to get any multichannel or high rez out of the optical out.

I'm chiming in to essentially second what grolschie said.

I don't know exactly what is going on with the HDMI connectivity issues you're experiencing with the player, Jim Lewis. Not getting picture is odd, as is the ceasing of output to the TV after 20 seconds. The HDMI handshake has to happen first or you get no output. It's not something that gets determined 20 seconds or so after playback commences. I don't have my 370 any longer to check (although the manual should illuminate this issue), but I suspect that whether the HDMI audio output is set to PCM or bitstream is the culprit here. I suggest going in to settings and testing these choices.

On a separate matter, I have to reiterate what grolschie has said to answer your direct question about 5.1 SACD playback and optical output, Jim: It's not possible. The resolution of the SACD format exceeds what the Toslink optical connection was spec'd for. You need either analog 5.1 outputs or HDMI for true high rez SACD playback.

I'm confused by dlarkin's "may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer" comment. It seems to conflate two different matters. Whether you're getting a downmix from an SACD or its native number of channels is going to depend upon whether you're playing back a 5.1 (or 3.1, if you have some of the RCA Red Seal classical discs) track and what you have the Sony set to in the audio settings as far as how you want it to handle "Downmix" (or not). I think there is a setting for (native) 5.1 versus a 2-channel stereo downmix. Obviously, this is not going to apply to 2-channel only SACDs. I'm confused by the reference to "BD layer" since we're talking about SACD playback here not Blu-ray Disc.

Last edited by Paul.R.S; 01-05-2016 at 01:19 PM.
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post #2886 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'm confused by dlarkin's "may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer" comment.
...I'm confused by the reference to "BD layer" since we're talking about SACD playback here not Blu-ray Disc.
Maybe he meant CD layer, as some SACDs (hybrid SACDs) have a CD and an SACD layer.

Another factor, should the HDMI problem be solved is whether to let the BDP convert the DSD audio to PCM and send it via HDMI, or whether to bitstream the DSD via HDMI to the Denon to convert - assuming the Denon supports DSD. One might do a better job perhaps.

EDIT: I couldn't see any reference to DSD/SACD in the Denon X2000 manual, so maybe it needs to be converted to PCM by the BDP when going via HDMI.

-


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post #2887 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grolschie View Post
Another factor, should the HDMI problem be solved is whether to let the BDP convert the DSD audio to PCM and send it via HDMI, or whether to bitstream the DSD via HDMI to the Denon to convert - assuming the Denon supports DSD. One might do a better job perhaps.
EDIT: I couldn't see any reference to DSD/SACD in the Denon X2000 manual, so maybe it needs to be converted to PCM by the BDP when going via HDMI.

I could be very wrong relying on this logic but, since Denon has made SACD-capable universal BD players, I'd like to think that if the X2000 could handle DSD the manual would explicitly say so. The absence of any reference to DSD is perhaps telling.

So, absent other data from Jim Lewis, I think this is the issue: the AVR doesn't play nice with native DSD. So the HDMI Audio out settings are going to have to be set accordingly.

Check page 23 of the manual, Jim. The first two audio-related settings listed work in concert with each other it seems (I never had to fuss over this because, back in the day when I was m.c., I was using a Denon AVR that had m.c. ANALOG outs). I'd suggest starting out with "Audio (HDMI)" set to Auto and "DSD Output Mode" set to "On." If that doesn't produce audio output, change Audio (HDMI) to PCM. If still no joy, change DSD Output Mode to "Off."

What do you think grolschie?

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post #2888 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'd suggest starting out with "Audio (HDMI)" set to Auto and "DSD Output Mode" set to "On." If that doesn't produce audio output, change Audio (HDMI) to PCM. If still no joy, change DSD Output Mode to "Off."

What do you think grolschie?
One problem might be when HDMI is set to PCM, then you won't be bitstreaming DTS, DD, etc. Maybe HDMI Auto, DSD off. According to page 23 of the BDP manual, when DSD = off, it outputs PCM for SACDs.

EDIT: So I'd try, DSD = Off, and HDMI = Auto, first. Then try HDMI = PCM if that fails.

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post #2889 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grolschie View Post
One problem might be when HDMI is set to PCM, then you won't be bitstreaming DTS, DD, etc. Maybe HDMI Auto, DSD off. According to page 23 of the BDP manual, when DSD = off, it outputs PCM for SACDs.

EDIT: So I'd try, DSD = Off, and HDMI = Auto, first. Then try HDMI = PCM if that fails.

I understand (I think). But for academic reasons (namely, wanting to test whether the Denon can handle DSD or not), I was suggesting starting with DSD set to On. I think it's an interesting thing to test, starting with HDMI set to Auto given that this mode "Outputs audio signals according to the status of the connected HDMI device." So the player will be querying the Denon's capabilities. Years of HDMI voodoo experience lead me to think there's room for a lot of variance here depending upon one's gear.

Another interesting thing to test will be what you mention about not getting bitstreamed DTS and DD with HDMI set to PCM. The manual leaves this open to a possible alternate reading: it says this mode "Outputs PCM signals from the HDMI OUT jack." It doesn't mention the other jacks, despite the fact that just below the manual explicitly mentions those other jacks when it states that "When [DSD is set to "On"] . . . no signal is output from other jacks."

So if coax is connected, maybe it is possible to get bitstreamed DTS and DD from DVDs with the same settings that enable native (maybe) DSD via HDMI from SACDs.
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post #2890 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 08:03 PM
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I understand (I think). But for academic reasons (namely, wanting to test whether the Denon can handle DSD or not), I was suggesting starting with DSD set to On. ...
Just looked up the FAQ thread:
The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

One of the X3000's "Key upgrades over the X2000" is: "Direct DSD support for SACD playback over HDMI"

D'oh!

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post #2891 of 2910 Old 01-05-2016, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by grolschie View Post
Just looked up the FAQ thread:
The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

One of the X3000's "Key upgrades over the X2000" is: "Direct DSD support for SACD playback over HDMI"

D'oh!
As the Emperor says in Amadeus, "Well, there it is."

What remains to be seen is the relationship between this info and what Jim Lewis is experiencing. Let us know, JL.

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post #2892 of 2910 Old 01-06-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'm chiming in to essentially second what grolschie said.



On a separate matter, I have to reiterate what grolschie has said to answer your direct question about 5.1 SACD playback and optical output, Jim: It's not possible. The resolution of the SACD format exceeds what the Toslink optical connection was spec'd for. You need either analog 5.1 outputs or HDMI for true high rez SACD playback.
Actually toslink has the bandwidth, Sony disables it for copy protection purposes. On the S370, the two channel analog outs give full-rez 2ch SACD playback, the player does the conversion to analog.
For this application, you would turn DSD output off, and have the player default to 2ch layer playback for SACD.
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post #2893 of 2910 Old 01-06-2016, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bradman View Post
Actually toslink has the bandwidth, Sony disables it for copy protection purposes. On the S370, the two channel analog outs give full-rez 2ch SACD playback, the player does the conversion to analog.
For this application, you would turn DSD output off, and have the player default to 2ch layer playback for SACD.
I could be wrong but it's never been my understanding that you can do high rez surround via Toslink (or SPDIF). And it's not been a question of a particular manuf disabling those connectors. It's been a function of high rez packaged media not even existing at the time of those connections' creation.

But it seems to me that this is not a moot but definitely academic point: regardless of the reason why, it's not possible.

I'd love to move back out of the weeds and hear from Jim Lewis regarding how the sussing out of his issues is going, which may or may not have anything to do with this increasingly sidebar conversation.
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post #2894 of 2910 Old 01-06-2016, 01:45 PM
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I could be wrong but it's never been my understanding that you can do high rez surround via Toslink (or SPDIF). And it's not been a question of a particular manuf disabling those connectors. It's been a function of high rez packaged media not even existing at the time of those connections' creation.

But it seems to me that this is not a moot but definitely academic point: regardless of the reason why, it's not possible.

I'd love to move back out of the weeds and hear from Jim Lewis regarding how the sussing out of his issues is going, which may or may not have anything to do with this increasingly sidebar conversation.
Lol, yeah, we're not really helping OP. But Sony disabled it in the spec, I believe, not just in their players.
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post #2895 of 2910 Old 01-30-2016, 03:57 AM
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Lol, yeah, we're not really helping OP. But Sony disabled it in the spec, I believe, not just in their players.
Hello Guys,

i am new here ... i have bout an BDP-S370 from a guy on eBay ,i tried to play SACD-R and it works great with FW M03.R.794 even Mulitichnannel works pretty good on this player ,wich is connected to my Pioneer VSX-923 AVR it displayes DSD
but after update to FW M03.R.804 ..... no sound HDMI is set to SACD playback ....

Do you have any hints to solve my problem, i'll apreciate your help

Many thanks in advance

Berti
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post #2896 of 2910 Old 02-12-2016, 10:38 AM
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Help needed.

I cannot seem to get my receiver (STR-DN1030) to indicate it is playing DTS-Master Audio when I play a Bluray from my BDP-S470. The player is connected to the receiver by HDMI.

The disk I am playing does have DTS- HD 5.1 Master Audio selected and I verified this by pressing the Display button on the player. The receiver front panel is indicating LPCM 48 kHz. If I put the receiver in AFD Auto mode, the speaker icons indicate just 2.1. If I switch the reveiver to Mutil St. the speaker icons indicate what I call psudo 5.1 (the square speaker icons are lit-up but blank for the center, SR, SL channels).

I also have verified that the Audio settings in the player have HDMI out set to AUTO, and the BD Audio Mix is OFF. I wish there was an audio setting in the player to just force the HDMI to bitstream.

The receiver speakers are setup as 3/2.1.

1) Should I be expecting the receiver to indicate DTS-HDMA?
2) or, is the LPCM indication just fine and the psudo 5.1 is actually the correct 5.1 (not generated from the 2.1)?

Thank you in advance for any help.

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post #2897 of 2910 Old 02-12-2016, 11:08 AM
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Re ^^

Greg, is BD Audio Mix set to Off?
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Re ^^

Greg, is BD Audio Mix set to Off?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Jones View Post
Help needed.

I cannot seem to get my receiver (STR-DN1030) to indicate it is playing DTS-Master Audio when I play a Bluray from my BDP-S470. The player is connected to the receiver by HDMI.

The disk I am playing does have DTS- HD 5.1 Master Audio selected and I verified this by pressing the Display button on the player. The receiver front panel is indicating LPCM 48 kHz. If I put the receiver in AFD Auto mode, the speaker icons indicate just 2.1. If I switch the reveiver to Mutil St. the speaker icons indicate what I call psudo 5.1 (the square speaker icons are lit-up but blank for the center, SR, SL channels).

I also have verified that the Audio settings in the player have HDMI out set to AUTO, and the BD Audio Mix is OFF. I wish there was an audio setting in the player to just force the HDMI to bitstream.

The receiver speakers are setup as 3/2.1.

1) Should I be expecting the receiver to indicate DTS-HDMA?
2) or, is the LPCM indication just fine and the psudo 5.1 is actually the correct 5.1 (not generated from the 2.1)?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Greg, is BD Audio Mix set to Off?
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post #2900 of 2910 Old 02-12-2016, 01:15 PM
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Greg, is BD Audio Mix set to Off?
Yes, it is.

Thanks.

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post #2901 of 2910 Old 02-12-2016, 02:26 PM
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I fix the problem!

The Audio Out setting in the receiver's HDMI Audio Settings was set to "TV+AMP". I changed this to AMP and now the receiver front panel indicates DTS-HD MA when I play the same Blue-ray disk as before.

At one time I wanted the sound to be played on the TV speakers. This is why that setting was set to TV+AMP. This was causing the HDMI handshake between the player and receiver to indicate that the receiver is only capable to 2 ch audio. Thus, while the HDMI Audio out setting in the player was set to AUTO, it only output 2ch LPCM.


I am so glad I finally figured this out....

Thanks for attempting to help. It caused me to keep digging...

Greg

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post #2902 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 07:35 AM
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Settings for Sony Bluray player S470 for Atmos

kbarnes701 stated that the Sony S470 handles seamless branching, so it will work for Atmos I assume.

I am wondering about the settings. Everything I read states to do bistream, but I am wondering if that would be the right settings for the Sony S470 because my understanding is that the Atmos content is packaged in Dolby TrueHD and the Sony manual states that HD Audio (including Dolby TrueHD) is not output by bitstream.


Anyone know what settings I should use on the S470 to get Atmos?

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post #2903 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 07:47 AM
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Your BD player appears to be an older unit that won't decode Atmos, so you will have to bitstream it to your AVR. As long as your AVR can decode it, you're good to go.

The Troubleshooting blurb on pg. 28 of the owner's manual (PDF) - which reads "The HD Audio ... is not output by bitstream" - tells you what to do if you're having a problem bitstreaming HD audio. It's not saying that HD audio can't be bitstreamed.

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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Your BD player appears to be an older unit that won't decode Atmos, so you will have to bitstream it to your AVR. As long as your AVR can decode it, you're good to go.

The Troubleshooting blurb on pg. 28 of the owner's manual (PDF) - which reads "The HD Audio ... is not output by bitstream" - tells you what to do if you're having a problem bitstreaming HD audio. It's not saying that HD audio can't be bitstreamed.
Thanks. I see what you mean, I was just searching in the manual for the word, "bitstream", and did not realize it was a trouble shooting scenario when I saw that.

A few questions please:

1) The only setting I need to change is Audio (HDMI) from Auto to PCM (and make sure BD Audio Mix is set to off)?

2) Since I am using HDMI, the Dolby Digital (Coaxial/Optical) and DTS (Coxial/Optical) can just be left on Dolby DIgital and DTS (vs Downmix PCM) since I am not using those outputs? Or should those be changed to Downmix PCM?
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post #2905 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 08:13 AM
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I would leave Audio (HDMI) set to "Auto". The player should:
- detect that the AVR can decode the HD audio; and, therefore,
- bitstream the HD audio to it.

Othewise, the player will attempt to decode to PCM and will most likely drop any HD content it can't decode.

You can leave the coaxial/optical settings alone since you're not using those outputs.
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post #2906 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 08:18 AM
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Moved to correct forum and thread:


Atmos and DTS:X must be bitstreamed. No player will decode anything more than lossless TrueHD and DTS-Master.

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.

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post #2907 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Thanks. I see what you mean, I was just searching in the manual for the word, "bitstream", and did not realize it was a trouble shooting scenario when I saw that.

A few questions please:

1) The only setting I need to change is Audio (HDMI) from Auto to PCM (and make sure BD Audio Mix is set to off)?

2) Since I am using HDMI, the Dolby Digital (Coaxial/Optical) and DTS (Coxial/Optical) can just be left on Dolby DIgital and DTS (vs Downmix PCM) since I am not using those outputs? Or should those be changed to Downmix PCM?
as already answered by someone else - HDMI = Auto
be sure to also set BD Audio Mix = Off in order to permit bitstreaming any lossless audio codecs.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #2908 of 2910 Old 04-25-2016, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
as already answered by someone else - HDMI = Auto
be sure to also set BD Audio Mix = Off in order to permit bitstreaming any lossless audio codecs.
Thanks.
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post #2909 of 2910 Old 04-26-2016, 10:13 AM
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Hey All,
I have a 370, and after walking by with the kids getting ready to watch a movie, the background of the display has a slight red tint to the black background. I switched the movie to the PS3, and did not have that issue. Could it be the HDMI cable?
Thanks.
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post #2910 of 2910 Old 04-26-2016, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Hey All,
I have a 370, and after walking by with the kids getting ready to watch a movie, the background of the display has a slight red tint to the black background. I switched the movie to the PS3, and did not have that issue. Could it be the HDMI cable?
Thanks.
yes it could - suggest you start by making sure it has a good connection at both ends. just slide each end out, and reinsert it a couple of times (thus cleaning the connections), making sure it is in straight & all the way in. if that doesn't help, try a different cable.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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