Official New Sony S370/S470 Owners Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2881 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 12:12 PM
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Try turning Deep Color from Auto to Off.
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post #2882 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
HI all. I'm very late to the Sony BD S370 party, but was looking for a cheap player for my SACDs. Unfortunately I'm having a real issue getting the HDMI to output through my Denon AVRX2000.

If I go directly to my TV I can get video no problems, the optical output will send stereo, but I actually really only need the 5 channel out via HDMI for the SACD which is not working.

When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

I've tried turning on/off all HDMI control options anbd changed the order of turning on the denon/sony/pioneer tv.

I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.

I have tried different inputs on the AVR and different HDMI cables.

From what i've read here there are some people using this BDP with this AVR so why am I having a problem???

Clearly i'm not alone in experiencing issues with HDMI but for it just to completely refuse to send signals is very strange.

I'd like not to have to completely disassemble my HT to solve this, but is disconnecting/reconnecting all HDMI inputs the recommended solution?

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.



Thanks for or any input.

I recall having fun with settings in the DBP series over the years working out kinks in teh digital out especially with SACDs. I plugged my 370 into my receiver and can only get 44.1/2.0 from the optical out. It has to be set to PCM (Dolby Digital gets you nothing) and may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer.

For SACD, if the HDMI out is set to PCM, the stream is dropped to 176.4/5.1 and sounds very very good. Set for DSD, I get DSD/5.1 out. I haven't been able to get any multichannel or high rez out of the optical out.


I hope turning off deep color works!
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post #2883 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
HI all. I'm very late to the Sony BD S370 party, but was looking for a cheap player for my SACDs. Unfortunately I'm having a real issue getting the HDMI to output through my Denon AVRX2000.

If I go directly to my TV I can get video no problems, the optical output will send stereo, but I actually really only need the 5 channel out via HDMI for the SACD which is not working.

When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

I've tried turning on/off all HDMI control options anbd changed the order of turning on the denon/sony/pioneer tv.

I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.

I have tried different inputs on the AVR and different HDMI cables.

From what i've read here there are some people using this BDP with this AVR so why am I having a problem???

Clearly i'm not alone in experiencing issues with HDMI but for it just to completely refuse to send signals is very strange.

I'd like not to have to completely disassemble my HT to solve this, but is disconnecting/reconnecting all HDMI inputs the recommended solution?

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.



Thanks for or any input.
https://docs.sony.com/release/BDPS370_BX37.pdf

The user manual
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post #2884 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
...
I more or less gave up, but then decided to do an update formware on the Sony, maybe I shouldn't have, but it appears not to have made any difference anyway.
...

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.
...
Hi. I'm not sure about the Denon + BDP connectivity problems, sorry. I plug mine directly into my TV via HDMI and use optical for audio since my receiver doesn't have HDMI.

I haven't had any issues with the Sony's firmware updates. Have you contacted Denon support?

Anyways, optical doesn't have the bandwidth for 5.1 PCM, so 2 channel PCM and the bitstreamed Dolby Digital (upto 640Kbit/s) and DTS (upto 1.5Mbit/s) is all that's possible via optical, I'm sure. The BDP would need to be set to output 2 channel PCM for SACDs via optical, and you might wish to set it to select the 2 channel SACD layer.

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post #2885 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim lewis View Post
When connected through the Denon I get no picture or sound when powering on the Sony.

The unit begins to play as it does when connected directly to the TV but then after 20 secs or so simply stops like it has received or maybe not received a signal telling it to stop via HDMI.

Alternatively, am I right to say that 5.1 out via the optical from SACD is not possible? this would be a viable workaround if it was available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlarkin_dc View Post
I recall having fun with settings in the DBP series over the years working out kinks in teh digital out especially with SACDs. I plugged my 370 into my receiver and can only get 44.1/2.0 from the optical out. It has to be set to PCM (Dolby Digital gets you nothing) and may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer.

For SACD, if the HDMI out is set to PCM, the stream is dropped to 176.4/5.1 and sounds very very good. Set for DSD, I get DSD/5.1 out. I haven't been able to get any multichannel or high rez out of the optical out.

I'm chiming in to essentially second what grolschie said.

I don't know exactly what is going on with the HDMI connectivity issues you're experiencing with the player, Jim Lewis. Not getting picture is odd, as is the ceasing of output to the TV after 20 seconds. The HDMI handshake has to happen first or you get no output. It's not something that gets determined 20 seconds or so after playback commences. I don't have my 370 any longer to check (although the manual should illuminate this issue), but I suspect that whether the HDMI audio output is set to PCM or bitstream is the culprit here. I suggest going in to settings and testing these choices.

On a separate matter, I have to reiterate what grolschie has said to answer your direct question about 5.1 SACD playback and optical output, Jim: It's not possible. The resolution of the SACD format exceeds what the Toslink optical connection was spec'd for. You need either analog 5.1 outputs or HDMI for true high rez SACD playback.

I'm confused by dlarkin's "may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer" comment. It seems to conflate two different matters. Whether you're getting a downmix from an SACD or its native number of channels is going to depend upon whether you're playing back a 5.1 (or 3.1, if you have some of the RCA Red Seal classical discs) track and what you have the Sony set to in the audio settings as far as how you want it to handle "Downmix" (or not). I think there is a setting for (native) 5.1 versus a 2-channel stereo downmix. Obviously, this is not going to apply to 2-channel only SACDs. I'm confused by the reference to "BD layer" since we're talking about SACD playback here not Blu-ray Disc.

Last edited by Paul.R.S; 01-05-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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post #2886 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'm confused by dlarkin's "may or may not be the SACD downmixed or it may be the BD layer" comment.
...I'm confused by the reference to "BD layer" since we're talking about SACD playback here not Blu-ray Disc.
Maybe he meant CD layer, as some SACDs (hybrid SACDs) have a CD and an SACD layer.

Another factor, should the HDMI problem be solved is whether to let the BDP convert the DSD audio to PCM and send it via HDMI, or whether to bitstream the DSD via HDMI to the Denon to convert - assuming the Denon supports DSD. One might do a better job perhaps.

EDIT: I couldn't see any reference to DSD/SACD in the Denon X2000 manual, so maybe it needs to be converted to PCM by the BDP when going via HDMI.

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post #2887 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grolschie View Post
Another factor, should the HDMI problem be solved is whether to let the BDP convert the DSD audio to PCM and send it via HDMI, or whether to bitstream the DSD via HDMI to the Denon to convert - assuming the Denon supports DSD. One might do a better job perhaps.
EDIT: I couldn't see any reference to DSD/SACD in the Denon X2000 manual, so maybe it needs to be converted to PCM by the BDP when going via HDMI.

I could be very wrong relying on this logic but, since Denon has made SACD-capable universal BD players, I'd like to think that if the X2000 could handle DSD the manual would explicitly say so. The absence of any reference to DSD is perhaps telling.

So, absent other data from Jim Lewis, I think this is the issue: the AVR doesn't play nice with native DSD. So the HDMI Audio out settings are going to have to be set accordingly.

Check page 23 of the manual, Jim. The first two audio-related settings listed work in concert with each other it seems (I never had to fuss over this because, back in the day when I was m.c., I was using a Denon AVR that had m.c. ANALOG outs). I'd suggest starting out with "Audio (HDMI)" set to Auto and "DSD Output Mode" set to "On." If that doesn't produce audio output, change Audio (HDMI) to PCM. If still no joy, change DSD Output Mode to "Off."

What do you think grolschie?

Last edited by Paul.R.S; 01-05-2016 at 06:02 PM.
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post #2888 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'd suggest starting out with "Audio (HDMI)" set to Auto and "DSD Output Mode" set to "On." If that doesn't produce audio output, change Audio (HDMI) to PCM. If still no joy, change DSD Output Mode to "Off."

What do you think grolschie?
One problem might be when HDMI is set to PCM, then you won't be bitstreaming DTS, DD, etc. Maybe HDMI Auto, DSD off. According to page 23 of the BDP manual, when DSD = off, it outputs PCM for SACDs.

EDIT: So I'd try, DSD = Off, and HDMI = Auto, first. Then try HDMI = PCM if that fails.

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post #2889 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grolschie View Post
One problem might be when HDMI is set to PCM, then you won't be bitstreaming DTS, DD, etc. Maybe HDMI Auto, DSD off. According to page 23 of the BDP manual, when DSD = off, it outputs PCM for SACDs.

EDIT: So I'd try, DSD = Off, and HDMI = Auto, first. Then try HDMI = PCM if that fails.

I understand (I think). But for academic reasons (namely, wanting to test whether the Denon can handle DSD or not), I was suggesting starting with DSD set to On. I think it's an interesting thing to test, starting with HDMI set to Auto given that this mode "Outputs audio signals according to the status of the connected HDMI device." So the player will be querying the Denon's capabilities. Years of HDMI voodoo experience lead me to think there's room for a lot of variance here depending upon one's gear.

Another interesting thing to test will be what you mention about not getting bitstreamed DTS and DD with HDMI set to PCM. The manual leaves this open to a possible alternate reading: it says this mode "Outputs PCM signals from the HDMI OUT jack." It doesn't mention the other jacks, despite the fact that just below the manual explicitly mentions those other jacks when it states that "When [DSD is set to "On"] . . . no signal is output from other jacks."

So if coax is connected, maybe it is possible to get bitstreamed DTS and DD from DVDs with the same settings that enable native (maybe) DSD via HDMI from SACDs.
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post #2890 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 09:03 PM
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I understand (I think). But for academic reasons (namely, wanting to test whether the Denon can handle DSD or not), I was suggesting starting with DSD set to On. ...
Just looked up the FAQ thread:
The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

One of the X3000's "Key upgrades over the X2000" is: "Direct DSD support for SACD playback over HDMI"

D'oh!

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post #2891 of 2895 Old 01-05-2016, 10:11 PM
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Just looked up the FAQ thread:
The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

One of the X3000's "Key upgrades over the X2000" is: "Direct DSD support for SACD playback over HDMI"

D'oh!
As the Emperor says in Amadeus, "Well, there it is."

What remains to be seen is the relationship between this info and what Jim Lewis is experiencing. Let us know, JL.

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post #2892 of 2895 Old 01-06-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
I'm chiming in to essentially second what grolschie said.



On a separate matter, I have to reiterate what grolschie has said to answer your direct question about 5.1 SACD playback and optical output, Jim: It's not possible. The resolution of the SACD format exceeds what the Toslink optical connection was spec'd for. You need either analog 5.1 outputs or HDMI for true high rez SACD playback.
Actually toslink has the bandwidth, Sony disables it for copy protection purposes. On the S370, the two channel analog outs give full-rez 2ch SACD playback, the player does the conversion to analog.
For this application, you would turn DSD output off, and have the player default to 2ch layer playback for SACD.
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post #2893 of 2895 Old 01-06-2016, 02:43 PM
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Actually toslink has the bandwidth, Sony disables it for copy protection purposes. On the S370, the two channel analog outs give full-rez 2ch SACD playback, the player does the conversion to analog.
For this application, you would turn DSD output off, and have the player default to 2ch layer playback for SACD.
I could be wrong but it's never been my understanding that you can do high rez surround via Toslink (or SPDIF). And it's not been a question of a particular manuf disabling those connectors. It's been a function of high rez packaged media not even existing at the time of those connections' creation.

But it seems to me that this is not a moot but definitely academic point: regardless of the reason why, it's not possible.

I'd love to move back out of the weeds and hear from Jim Lewis regarding how the sussing out of his issues is going, which may or may not have anything to do with this increasingly sidebar conversation.
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post #2894 of 2895 Old 01-06-2016, 02:45 PM
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I could be wrong but it's never been my understanding that you can do high rez surround via Toslink (or SPDIF). And it's not been a question of a particular manuf disabling those connectors. It's been a function of high rez packaged media not even existing at the time of those connections' creation.

But it seems to me that this is not a moot but definitely academic point: regardless of the reason why, it's not possible.

I'd love to move back out of the weeds and hear from Jim Lewis regarding how the sussing out of his issues is going, which may or may not have anything to do with this increasingly sidebar conversation.
Lol, yeah, we're not really helping OP. But Sony disabled it in the spec, I believe, not just in their players.
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post #2895 of 2895 Old 01-30-2016, 04:57 AM
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Lol, yeah, we're not really helping OP. But Sony disabled it in the spec, I believe, not just in their players.
Hello Guys,

i am new here ... i have bout an BDP-S370 from a guy on eBay ,i tried to play SACD-R and it works great with FW M03.R.794 even Mulitichnannel works pretty good on this player ,wich is connected to my Pioneer VSX-923 AVR it displayes DSD
but after update to FW M03.R.804 ..... no sound HDMI is set to SACD playback ....

Do you have any hints to solve my problem, i'll apreciate your help

Many thanks in advance

Berti
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