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post #271 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

P.49 audio output table and footnote do not mention DSD-PCM sample frequency.

From what I'm reading, the new "3D" Denon and Marantz line up of Receivers will drop DSD and only the Marantz will include 7.1 analog inputs. Of course the DBP-1611UD and Marantz's UD5005 will only offer stereo line (analog) outputs anyway. However, I want at least the 7.1 outs for my old Receiver so I can still get HD sound and retain the 3D aspect of direct HDMI 1.4a to my 3D display device (if I ever get one). This is partly why the Marantz UD6005 and Denon DBP-2011UD still hold promise to me...
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post #272 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid View Post

From what I'm reading, the new "3D" Denon and Marantz line up of Receivers will drop DSD and only the Marantz will include 7.1 analog inputs. Of course the DBP-1611UD and Marantz's UD5005 will only offer stereo line (analog) outputs anyway. However, I want at least the 7.1 outs for my old Receiver so I can still get HD sound and retain the 3D aspect of direct HDMI 1.4a to my 3D display device (if I ever get one). This is partly why the Marantz UD6005 and Denon DBP-2011UD still hold promise to me...

Did you consider using the $400 more you would spend towards new receiver? I was just wondering if that was an option for some and though I would ask...
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post #273 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Did you consider using the $400 more you would spend towards new receiver? I was just wondering if that was an option for some and though I would ask...

Well, I like the "potential" options on the more expensive (and as yet unvailed) Denon and Marantz 3D BD players anyway, so the fact that I could use them with my current receiver is an added bonus.
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post #274 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid View Post

From what I'm reading, the new "3D" Denon and Marantz line up of Receivers will drop DSD and only the Marantz will include 7.1 analog inputs. Of course the DBP-1611UD and Marantz's UD5005 will only offer stereo line (analog) outputs anyway. However, I want at least the 7.1 outs for my old Receiver so I can still get HD sound and retain the 3D aspect of direct HDMI 1.4a to my 3D display device (if I ever get one). This is partly why the Marantz UD6005 and Denon DBP-2011UD still hold promise to me...

TBH I am kinda glad they are dropping DSD. SACD has been on life support for way too long, it is time to get past the format and move on to Blu-ray Audio. Killing off hardware support is a good way to get to that point.
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post #275 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 01:23 PM
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I think i will get the new Denon 2011 when it drops in price.

I compared the ABT1030 to ABT2015, and it adds lots of new features for a better image (I hope)

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post #276 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

TBH I am kinda glad they are dropping DSD. SACD has been on life support for way too long, it is time to get past the format and move on to Blu-ray Audio. Killing off hardware support is a good way to get to that point.

True, for those who have not invested in SACD. However, I and others who have, want their investment to sound as great as possible. BTW, long live Blu-ray Audio as soon as they can get around to using it. I have about 3 blu-ray Audio discs...
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post #277 of 1055 Old 07-18-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

TBH I am kinda glad they are dropping DSD. SACD has been on life support for way too long, it is time to get past the format and move on to Blu-ray Audio. Killing off hardware support is a good way to get to that point.

Ruined,

SACD is not on life support there are still titles being released and not just classical. It's easy to rally against a format you don't have. Also, Sony is introducing SACD support back into its players. Blu-ray is into its 4th generation and how many blu-ray audio (not concert) titles are available? I probably own the same 3 as DigVid. (lol)


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post #278 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 07:42 AM
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[quote=Kilian.ca;18920776]P.49 audio output table and footnote do not mention DSD-PCM sample frequency.

Like all other BDPs, 5.1 192kHz dts-HD MA is output as 5.1 96kHz. Why can't BDPs do full rate decoding when the PS3 can?



Unless I'm interpreting it wrong, It appears to me on page 27 of the manual that it only (? correct term) "downsamples" the dts-HD MA to 96kkz if you have the BD Audio Mode set to "Mix audio output" (so you can listen to secondary/interactive audio). If you have the BD Audio mode set to "HD audio output" it seems to me it leaves it in full resolution at 192khz.

Anybody please correct me if I misunderstood.
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post #279 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid View Post

From what I'm reading, the new "3D" Denon and Marantz line up of Receivers will drop DSD and only the Marantz will include 7.1 analog inputs. Of course the DBP-1611UD and Marantz's UD5005 will only offer stereo line (analog) outputs anyway. However, I want at least the 7.1 outs for my old Receiver so I can still get HD sound and retain the 3D aspect of direct HDMI 1.4a to my 3D display device (if I ever get one). This is partly why the Marantz UD6005 and Denon DBP-2011UD still hold promise to me...

The AVR-3311CI and up support DSD through HDMI so Denon isn't abandoning it at all.
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post #280 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 09:38 AM
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false, Denon stripped DSD support from the 28xx/9xx (now 33xx/9xx) level last year. The 2809/989 supported DSD but this was removed last year in the 3310/990. The new 3311/991 doesn't even have multich analog inputs.

Currently you have to get the 43xx model (or up) to get DSD support.

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post #281 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

false, Denon stripped DSD support from the 28xx/9xx (now 33xx/9xx) level last year. The 2809/989 supported DSD but this was removed last year in the 3310/990. The new 3311/991 doesn't even have multich analog inputs.

Currently you have to get the 43xx model (or up) to get DSD support.

This proves my point that denon took a step back with thier receivers. I was going to get a 3310, and not the 3311. But then decided i wanted japanese made denon and went with the 4310 instead at a great price.

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post #282 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 03:44 PM
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One thing I would love to see is some of these tests cross-referenced with an intelligence test. I predict that those of higher intelligence will tend to be better at discriminating among various audio sources.

Ouch! I just saw this very messy statement and had to comment. IF such a cross-reference pointed to some correlation between "intelligence" and ability to discern audio sources, I'd posit that those results have more to do with the 'more intelligent' subjects having had more ear training than anything to do with native intelligence.

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TBH I am kinda glad they are dropping DSD. SACD has been on life support for way too long, it is time to get past the format and move on to Blu-ray Audio. Killing off hardware support is a good way to get to that point.

I think the notion that "[k]illing off [SACD] hardware support" is going to somehow foment greater adoption of BD audio is specious. I think BD audio will be artist-driven: in other words, individual and probably established artists who want to present their work in high rez multichannel will gravitate towards it. But this is not unlike some new SA-CDs in recent years. Tom Petty doing a BD audio release of Mojo is not unlike John Hiatt liking DSD--that's why there's an SA-CD of Master Of Disaster. Same with, say, the Philharmonia Orchestra's Mahler cycle: Ben Zander is the driving force behind those recordings being done in the first place and then often (but unfortunately not always) seeing m.c. SA-CD release.

I think it's debatable whether the record industry will ever support a packaged media format in a unified fashion again. The industry as some of us knew it back in the day of the launch of CD doesn't even exist anymore.

Meanwhile, I second DigVid and Willie's comments about it being easy to dismiss SA-CD (and DVD-A) if you've not been building a fabulous library of titles over the past 10 years. Although likely unitentional, the notion that we should all "get past [SA-CD] and move on to Blu-ray Audio" is kinda offensive to some of us (read: me). We've seen no indication whatsoever that the labels would remaster, re-author and re-release their SA-CD and DVD-A catalogs on BD audio. (Because I predict that will never happen.)
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post #283 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

I think the notion that "[k]illing off [SACD] hardware support" is going to somehow foment greater adoption of BD audio is specious. I think BD audio will be artist-driven: in other words, individual and probably established artists who want to present their work in high rez multichannel will gravitate towards it. But this is not unlike some new SA-CDs in recent years. Tom Petty doing a BD audio release of Mojo is not unlike John Hiatt liking DSD--that's why there's an SA-CD of Master Of Disaster. Same with, say, the Philharmonia Orchestra's Mahler cycle: Ben Zander is the driving force behind those recordings being done in the first place and then often (but unfortunately not always) seeing m.c. SA-CD release.

I think it's debatable whether the record industry will ever support a packaged media format in a unified fashion again. The industry as some of us knew it back in the day of the launch of CD doesn't even exist anymore.

Meanwhile, I second DigVid and Willie's comments about it being easy to dismiss SA-CD (and DVD-A) if you've not been building a fabulous library of titles over the past 10 years. Although likely unitentional, the notion that we should all "get past [SA-CD] and move on to Blu-ray Audio" is kinda offensive to some of us (read: me). We've seen no indication whatsoever that the labels would remaster, re-author and re-release their SA-CD and DVD-A catalogs on BD audio. (Because I predict that will never happen.)

Paul.R.S,

Well said. I have nice collection of SACDs and DVD-As and I have several players to accommodate those format. I supsect that Oppo will always support the two formats and Denon and Marantz has joined the party at a respectable price depending on your needs. It's going to be interesting to see if Denon and Marantz are still supporting these players in a few years at this price point since other features in their AVRs are moving up the food chain.


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post #284 of 1055 Old 07-19-2010, 08:30 PM
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Just ignore the SACD detractors. These two new Denons play SACDs so that's all we need to concentrate on and how well they do it in this Denon BDP thread. There is no real increase in perceivable resolution going from SACD to 24/96 PCM so it isn't a big deal for many of us here who have SACD and BD players.

I'm now leaning towards an Onkyo 506 DVD universal player which decodes DSD to PCM at 176.4kHz and sends DSD. I don't need a BD universal player as such. The Onkyo is under $400 here.

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Unless I'm interpreting it wrong, It appears to me on page 27 of the manual that it only (? correct term) "downsamples" the dts-HD MA to 96kkz if you have the BD Audio Mode set to "Mix audio output" (so you can listen to secondary/interactive audio). If you have the BD Audio mode set to "HD audio output" it seems to me it leaves it in full resolution at 192khz.

It's actually on p.24 of the printed version (with 24 printed in the bottom left) but p.27 of the pdf.

The other option, 'HD Audio output' means it's bitstreaming to the AVR and it should be sent intact in encoded (compressed) form, as expected. The issue I pointed out is when it is decoded to LPCM by the player, it is downsampled to 96kHz - this applies whether or not there is secondary audio. This does not conflict with what is says on p.49 (p.52 pdf). Most AVRs today still cannot decode MCH 196kHz and do post-processing at that rate so until that changes ideally you want the player to decode and send MCH 196kHz PCM to the AVR.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #285 of 1055 Old 07-20-2010, 07:27 AM
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Has anyone found a dealer where this can be pre-ordered/bought? I am looking forward to picking this up and giving it a whirl.

In search of video bliss...
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post #286 of 1055 Old 07-20-2010, 07:31 AM
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Has anyone found a dealer where this can be pre-ordered/bought? I am looking forward to picking this up and giving it a whirl.

There are a few places that have it available for pre order and here is one. LINK I am going to buy one too but am waiting to see if someone is going to offer free shipping.
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post #287 of 1055 Old 07-20-2010, 07:46 AM
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There are a few places that have it available for pre order and here is one. LINK I am going to buy one too but am waiting to see if someone is going to offer free shipping.

Your link shows FREE ground shipping...

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post #288 of 1055 Old 07-20-2010, 08:13 AM
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Your link shows FREE ground shipping...

Wow, that must have just changed. I will order now.
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post #289 of 1055 Old 07-20-2010, 12:01 PM
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Does anyone know if these players will be Cinavia compliant?

Definately won't buy any player that is..

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post #290 of 1055 Old 07-21-2010, 07:12 PM
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Your J&R Web Order Number is 105442967

Can't wait to gt a hold of this thing.
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post #291 of 1055 Old 07-22-2010, 10:14 AM
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Your J&R Web Order Number is 105442967

Can't wait to gt a hold of this thing.

DenonLover,

I hope it is all you expected. You pretty much put your life on hold to get this player. I look forward to hearing your impressions. You're getting the 1611?


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post #292 of 1055 Old 07-22-2010, 10:28 AM
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DenonLover,

I hope it is all you expected. You pretty much put your life on hold to get this player. I look forward to hearing your impressions. You're getting the 1611?


Willie

Yes I ordered the 1611 and I have the PS3 until it shows up. It will be nice to break out all of my old DVD-A and SACD's. My life will be able to go back to normal.

I spent the last 6 weeks ordering speakers and toys for my HT and furniture for the room. The last bit is showing up the middle of next month so I hope it will arrive before then.
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post #293 of 1055 Old 07-24-2010, 07:58 PM
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I had a quick question about the Ethernet connection. I do not have a connection anywhere near this player and I wanted to see if there are others here that have tested or are considering an Ethernet wireless adapter? Also what is the room to room out option on the back of the unit? LINK



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post #294 of 1055 Old 07-24-2010, 08:01 PM
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You cant use one of those as the players do not have hard drives to store drivers for external devices. You would have to purchase a wireless bridge aka gaming adapter
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post #295 of 1055 Old 07-24-2010, 08:15 PM
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You cant use one of those as the players do not have hard drives to store drivers for external devices. You would have to purchase a wireless bridge aka gaming adapter

Could you please post a link or tell me where to go to find a solution so I can update the firmware and download and watch netflix movies via streaming that would somehow work with the Ethernet option on the back?
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post #296 of 1055 Old 07-25-2010, 05:28 AM
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Could you please post a link or tell me where to go to find a solution so I can update the firmware and download and watch netflix movies via streaming that would somehow work with the Ethernet option on the back?

Two ways, You can use a wireless bridge like this(There are cheaper) to connect to your wireless router:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-...0060804&sr=8-2

Or you can use a powerline adapter. This is what I use as it has 4 ports:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-...0060898&sr=1-1

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post #297 of 1055 Old 07-25-2010, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Could you please post a link or tell me where to go to find a solution so I can update the firmware and download and watch netflix movies via streaming that would somehow work with the Ethernet option on the back?

DenonLover,

Before spending money on accessories I would wait for the player to be delivered and spend a little time with it. You would hate to be out of pocket for accessories if you for whatever reason decide to return it.


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post #298 of 1055 Old 07-25-2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Two ways, You can use a wireless bridge like this(There are cheaper) to connect to your wireless router:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-...0060804&sr=8-2

Or you can use a powerline adapter. This is what I use as it has 4 ports:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-...0060898&sr=1-1

S~

Thank you for these links and I will do a little bit of research on them. I just found a link to something called a Dual-Band Wireless-N Gaming Adapter model: WGA600N and it looks like it would work and seems to be a little more current than most at about 2.5 years old as a product. I own a Linksys WRT400N Simultaneous Dual-Band Wireless-N Router




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DenonLover,

Before spending money on accessories I would wait for the player to be delivered and spend a little time with it. You would hate to be out of pocket for accessories if you for whatever reason decide to return it.


Willie

You make a good point Willie and I was thinking the same thing. The only reason why I may move forward is the fact that I could also use the wireless extender portion of this product to get the much needed coverage that I need in this part of the house. My home network being solid plays a big part in my income and how I work.
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post #299 of 1055 Old 07-26-2010, 09:04 PM
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So July 26th came and went and the product never appeared to be sold by any sites that allowed pre-ordering. When is this thing shipping??
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post #300 of 1055 Old 07-26-2010, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jqwhite79 View Post

So July 26th came and went and the product never appeared to be sold by any sites that allowed pre-ordering. When is this thing shipping??

I just got a back order notice from JR.com telling me they had no idea when it would ship? I should finally get my Emotiva XPA-2 that was back ordered by mid Aug and if this Denon does not arrive by then I will pick up the Oppo BDP-83. I am ready to be done with my HT room so I can set everything up and move on. I might even change my name to OppoLover.
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