Originally Posted by batpig
um, no. it's a digital (HDMI) connection, there is no DAC involved.
and even if I forgive you that error and we keep it digital.... if the transport was capable of outputting 24/192 digital PCM, why would it take the DSD, downsample it to 16/44.1, and then re-upsample it?
Obviously one of is confused. Batpig, since you are definitely a Denon guru, and I'm just a fan, I assume it's me who is confused. Here's my understanding. I trust you'll point out to me where I am going wrong.
First of all, it's my understanding that a DAC isn't actually properly named. The result is still digital, though the hype is that the sampling rate and frequency of 24/192 is apparently indistinguishable from a genuine analog signal at least for nearly everyone. Hence, the audible results of a good DAC are for all intents and purposes equivalent to an analog signal even though the DAC signal can be digitally quantified with a bit depth and rate, which is inappropriate for describing genuine analog signals.
Next, I assumed that the DACs installed in the players would be capable of sending the modified signal either through the analog outs or through the HDMI. Certainly, the HDMI connection is capable of transmitting 24/192 signals for each channel. That's part of the specs. I certainly could be wrong about this. Possibly the DAC engages only when using the RCA analog outs for the players rather than when using the HDMI. That would seem like an odd engineering choice as the DAC would only be useful for enhancing the sounds of CDs or DVDs when using the analog outs rather than the HDMI. Still, that might be possible.
I got sloppy with my terminology in using the word "downsampling." I should have described this instead as "conversion." I think we are still confused in this forum about what quality of digital PCM signal will result from these players when a DSD signal is converted to PCM. We have had some indication that the resultant signal would be 16/44.1, which I think would be unacceptable for many of us who want to use the HDMI for SACD playback. Unfortunately, we have fallen short of verification. I think several of us are concerned that the new players may have a poor method of conversion that could mostly eliminate the auditory superiority of SACD if played through HDMI.
It was suggested that one of these players hooked up to an appropriate receiver would allow the receiver to tell the user precisely what bit depth and rate was being sent through HDMI from an SACD. As mentioned previously, because I think that the DAC should be able to upsample any signal and send it through HDMI, I'm concerned about the following:
The player converts DSD to 16/44.1 PCM. The DAC then engages and upsamples the poorly converted signal to 24/192. The receiver then detects a 24/192 signal through HDMI.
You appear to have reason to think that the DAC cannot upsample a digital signal that goes to HDMI. Maybe you're right, but from my limited understanding, I don't see why that would be the case. If I'm wrong, then no problem. If I'm not wrong, then people should definitely make the effort to listen to some SACDs through HDMI from these players to evaluate the quality of the sound that the player can produce through HDMI. I for one trust my ears more than numbers displayed on a receiver.