DBP2011 & DBP-1611 owner's thread. All questions and comments go here. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1055 Old 04-29-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

If Oppo does not lower their MSRP, I think Denon has priced this unit very well.

$800 is a lot, but with both 3-D and the ABT2015 (a notch ahead of Oppo's VP) its pretty tough not to see this player offers significantly more than the BDP-83. And, while the cheaper model does not have the ABT, it probably will have decent video processing, is $100 cheaper than the BDP-83, and once again also has 3-D.

Right now my sights are set on the DBP2011, but I need to know more before I throw down the 799.

I would call this a keeping up with the Jones scenario. 3D is being added to most new models along with HDMI 1.4a functionality. Denon still has a pretty weak internet package with no built-in WiFi. ABT-2015 is the latest update from Anchor Bay that is a pin-for-pin replacement for ABT-2010. Denon improved the decoding so both models support DVD-A/SACD playback which hopefully will put a little fire back into these two media markets.

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post #32 of 1055 Old 04-29-2010, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The Denon DBP-4010UDCI only outputs 16-bit 44.1KHz PCM for SACDs doesn't it? Can the newer and cheaper models do better?

According to Denon, the new ones will output full DSD over HDMI which, I assume, is what you are referring to. (The older ones would decode full-bandwidth for analog as well as output DSD over DL4.)

I was referring to the low (CD quality) resolution of the LPCM output (2-CH and MCH) for SACD, in contrast to 176.4kHz LPCM from the older PS3 and 88.2 kHz (both 24-bit?) from the Mediatek-based players.

The 4010 manual indicates DL3 can pass SACD (presumably meaning DSD) but I don't have a Denon AVR with DL anyway.

If as you say the new players can do DSD via HDMI that it is a new feature but I'm more interested in having higher resolution LPCM. Do you have any more info about LPCM output?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #33 of 1055 Old 04-29-2010, 11:27 PM
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I am a Denon wh*re, but Denon will not be able to compete in the BluRay market.

1) Too many low priced competitors that also way outperform Denon
2) Denon speed is pathetic. If they only shaved a few seconds off load times, that will be a non event. Considering the current gen is Denon 17seconds vs. the "fast players" are 5 seconds or less. The new Samsungs leave Denon in the dust.
3) Denon playability is also pathetic. I followed the 2010 thread and saw a ton of "I can't play X", "I can't play Y"... Oppos, etc. play EVERYTHING no problemo.

Netflix streaming will be nice.

Youtube streaming is worthless. PQ on Youtube is generally horrible.

We'll see if these new players are up to snuff as I'd rather buy a Denon. Not holding my breath though.

Denon quality in the optical world has sucked for over 5yrs now.
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post #34 of 1055 Old 04-30-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

If as you say the new players can do DSD via HDMI that it is a new feature but I'm more interested in having higher resolution LPCM. Do you have any more info about LPCM output?

Nope. Didn't ask.

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post #35 of 1055 Old 04-30-2010, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post

I am a Denon wh*re, but Denon will not be able to compete in the BluRay market.

1) Too many low priced competitors that also way outperform Denon
2) Denon speed is pathetic. If they only shaved a few seconds off load times, that will be a non event. Considering the current gen is Denon 17seconds vs. the "fast players" are 5 seconds or less. The new Samsungs leave Denon in the dust.
3) Denon playability is also pathetic. I followed the 2010 thread and saw a ton of "I can't play X", "I can't play Y"... Oppos, etc. play EVERYTHING no problemo.

Netflix streaming will be nice.

Youtube streaming is worthless. PQ on Youtube is generally horrible.

We'll see if these new players are up to snuff as I'd rather buy a Denon. Not holding my breath though.

Denon quality in the optical world has sucked for over 5yrs now.

Huh? I own a 2010 and have followed that thread. There have been no playability issues, especially since the 12/9 update. There was a minor freeze issue, but that was corrected very quickly, unlike the Panasonic. If you are refering to the Lionsgate titles, you must have memory installed, period. Not a Denon problem. It's a Lionsgate problem. Other players have had the same difficulty with theior titles until they install memory.

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post #36 of 1055 Old 05-04-2010, 03:05 PM
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That's enough about the Oppo, guys. This is a Denon thread. Stay on topic please.

OT posts removed.

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post #37 of 1055 Old 05-04-2010, 03:14 PM
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Looking forward to these decks coming to market, and seeing how things take shape vis-a-vis the (fall?) 3D firmware upgrade. There might be an interesting confluence around Thanksgiving of the upgrade and possible 3D BDs of Shrek Forever After, How To Train Your Dragon (not to mention theatrical sizzle from Jackass 3D and Step Up 3D).
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post #38 of 1055 Old 05-04-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Looking forward to these decks coming to market, and seeing how things take shape vis-a-vis the (fall?) 3D firmware upgrade. There might be an interesting confluence around Thanksgiving of the upgrade and possible 3D BDs of Shrek Forever After, How To Train Your Dragon (not to mention theatrical sizzle from Jackass 3D and Step Up 3D).

Yes, I haven't seen anything approaching the Denon DBP-2011 in the 499-999 pricerange yet. I am hoping they offer checkerboard 3-D support for DLP, that would seal the deal.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #39 of 1055 Old 05-05-2010, 10:40 PM
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Now the thread has been cleansed or disinfected...

If the new Denon 2011 have the following features for SACD:

1. Direct DSD to analogue option - as in my current 2900 - they could do it before;
2. DSD to PCM at 24-bit 88.2kHz at least - over HDMI and DL4 - surely it can't be that difficult to have more than 16-bit 44.1kHz;
3. similar bass management options as in the 4010, esp. crossovers - unique to Denon I believe so keep it;
4. no ticks, clicks or pops - never been a problem in Denons so don't start... and
5. no truncation - ditto;

together with DSD over DL4 this would provide a lot of flexibility for different users and should be competitive in the price point. I will be patient and wait in the meantime: if it turns out this way then I can finally upgrade.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #40 of 1055 Old 05-06-2010, 01:00 PM
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Too bad it dont come with two HDMIs for 3D for us with receivers without 3d capabilities...
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post #41 of 1055 Old 05-06-2010, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IIDexII View Post

Too bad it dont come with two HDMIs for 3D for us with receivers without 3d capabilities...

I wonder if manufacturers have to pay 2X HDMI license fees for dual outputs hence their reluctance for doing so.
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post #42 of 1055 Old 05-06-2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

2. DSD to PCM at 24-bit 88.2kHz at least - over HDMI and DL4 - surely it can't be that difficult to have more than 16-bit 44.1kHz

There are several aspects of the current high-end Denon/Marantz players that disapppoint me (at their price points, anyway), but downsampling of SACD to 16/44.1 is by far the most annoying. What's the point of that? (And, no, "DenonLink" isn't a satisfactory answer, because that doesn't explain the Marantz players.)

This one attribute is almost unfathomable to me, especially when we consider that "that other popular universal player" (the name of which is verbotten, apparently) outputs 24/88.2. Let's hope the 2011 at least matches that.
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post #43 of 1055 Old 05-06-2010, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brownstone View Post

There are several aspects of the current high-end Denon/Marantz players that disapppoint me (at their price points, anyway), but downsampling of SACD to 16/44.1 is by far the most annoying. What's the point of that?...

This one attribute is almost unfathomable to me ...

Limited processor power? Just couldn't care less? The A1UDCI does it too and to me it's unacceptable at any price point. It will definitely be a deal breaker. Denon better take note!

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #44 of 1055 Old 05-13-2010, 04:06 PM
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will either of these have 7.1 ansalog outs?
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post #45 of 1055 Old 05-13-2010, 04:23 PM
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I don't think we know for sure yet. I hope so, but no full spec announce yet (despite one of them supposedly dropping next month). I'm speculating that the 1611 will not and hoping the 2011 will.
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post #46 of 1055 Old 05-13-2010, 04:49 PM
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thats what i was afraid of...does the current intro model have them?
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post #47 of 1055 Old 05-13-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

will either of these have 7.1 ansalog outs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

thats what i was afraid of...does the current intro model have them?

Denonphile,

Denon's current entry level player the DBP-1610 does not have 7.1 analog so my guess is that the DBP-1611 will not. However, I'm pretty confident the DBP-2011 will. The press release indicates Burr-Brown 32-Bit DACs in the DBP-2011.


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post #48 of 1055 Old 05-14-2010, 07:46 AM
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It's great to see Netflix starting to creep into other brands...

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http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
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post #49 of 1055 Old 05-15-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

I wonder if manufacturers have to pay 2X HDMI license fees for dual outputs hence their reluctance for doing so.

Considering the 2 outputs of the pana's is just a splitting of the hdmi output into separate video /audio streams which should be gratis the denons shouldnt have that excuse you'de think .
I cant see them including dl4 otherwise the 4010 would have no distinguishing step up consideration apart from its analog circuitry one suspects Without the dl4 though chances look good for proper sacd pcm output ;no excuses right
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post #50 of 1055 Old 05-15-2010, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

will either of these have 7.1 ansalog outs?

Yes, the DBP-2011UDCI has 7.1 analog outputs.
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post #51 of 1055 Old 05-15-2010, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiguymi View Post

Yes, the DBP-2011UDCI has 7.1 analog outputs.

Thx, HiFi. I was about to ask for your source but looked before I leapt and found this:

http://reviews.cnet.com/blu-ray-play...-34078983.html

Do you have word from another source that corroborates this, or was your source CNET? Great news to me. Although analogs on the 1611 would be nice, their absence doesn't surprise me.
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post #52 of 1055 Old 05-16-2010, 04:06 PM
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I would have liked Dual HDMI OUTS. Guess we shall see if this ends up having an impact on their sales... If I am going to do 3-D the Panasonic model is looking a lot better so far...

2011 is tempting, expecially with that RS232A. But without any dual outputs, and my desire NOT to spend for double AUDIO and projector updgrads it's out.

Maybe they will have a higher end unit with the same features and Dual HDMI also???

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #53 of 1055 Old 05-16-2010, 04:31 PM
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Maybe they will have dual HDMI on the already higher end 2011? Do we know for sure already that the 2011 does not have this? I'd sure like to think that Denon of all manufs would include such a feature on the higher end of two new 3D-"ready" players.

Edumucate me please: Dual HDMI is primarily attractive as a way to send vid directly to a pj/display while sending aud directly to a pre/pro, yes? There's nothing 3D-specific about dual HDMI's desirability, right?
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post #54 of 1055 Old 05-16-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Without the dl4 though chances look good for proper sacd pcm output ;no excuses right

Consider, then, the Marantz UD9004 and UD8004: No DenonLink-type connection, but SACD over HDMI is down-converted to 16/44.1 PCM nonetheless. And at stratospheric price points, no less.

I don't think there's any excuse for down-converted SACD under any circumstances. It's just plain stupid in my book. This is one area where I just don't trust Denon/Marantz, not until they get it right.
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post #55 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 12:44 AM
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I will be watching this thread closely. I was going to pick up the Oppo but now I am going to wait and get more details from Denon first.
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post #56 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Maybe they will have dual HDMI on the already higher end 2011? Do we know for sure already that the 2011 does not have this? I'd sure like to think that Denon of all manufs would include such a feature on the higher end of two new 3D-"ready" players.

Edumucate me please: Dual HDMI is primarily attractive as a way to send vid directly to a pj/display while sending aud directly to a pre/pro, yes? There's nothing 3D-specific about dual HDMI's desirability, right?

Its very 3D specific, 3D Blu-ray players will use the new HDMI 1.4 standard, and existing AV receivers only support HDMI 1.3. The only 3D player so far with dual HDMI outputs against 3D usage is the Panasonic DMP-BDT350.

I very much doubt the BDP-2011UDCI (3D ready, HDMI 1.4a) will come with dual HDMI because none of the announcements have mention this and also all their brand new xx11 receivers are HDMI 1.4a compliant. Denon just expects you to buy all new gear.

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post #57 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 01:44 AM
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Its very 3D specific, 3D Blu-ray players will use the new HDMI 1.4 standard, and existing AV receivers only support HDMI 1.3. The only 3D player so far with dual HDMI outputs against 3D usage is the Panasonic DMP-BDT350.

I very much doubt the BDP-2011UDCI (3D ready, HDMI 1.4a) will come with dual HDMI because none of the announcements have mention this and also all their brand new xx11 receivers are HDMI 1.4a compliant. Denon just expects you to buy all new gear.

I own the 4308ci and I must say that is very disturbing! They need to make a device that allows you to swap or buy parts to upgrade your system.
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post #58 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 07:48 AM
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I will be watching this thread closely. I was going to pick up the Oppo but now I am going to wait and get more details from Denon first.

I already own an Oppo, but I'd like to have NetFlix streaming too. The Denon 2011 could be just the trick. Thing is, the Oppo outputs SACD over HDMI at 24/88.2. If Denon can match or exceed that, then it's a done deal. If not, then I'll wait until Oppo incorporates video streaming, which you know they will.
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post #59 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 08:52 AM
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I already own an Oppo, but I'd like to have NetFlix streaming too. The Denon 2011 could be just the trick. Thing is, the Oppo outputs SACD over HDMI at 24/88.2. If Denon can match or exceed that, then it's a done deal. If not, then I'll wait until Oppo incorporates video streaming, which you know they will.

I stream netflix now on my Playstation and the quality of the streams are the real issue. It is right up there with listening to MP3 through our home audio systems. You need to place a disk in the Playstation to get it to work. I would not change units to get this feature if I were you if everything else works well.
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post #60 of 1055 Old 05-17-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
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Consider, then, the Marantz UD9004 and UD8004: No DenonLink-type connection, but SACD over HDMI is down-converted to 16/44.1 PCM nonetheless. And at stratospheric price points, no less.

I don't think there's any excuse for down-converted SACD under any circumstances. It's just plain stupid in my book. This is one area where I just don't trust Denon/Marantz, not until they get it right.

I tend to put the marantz' in a niche as they are directly based on the denons and are under the same umbrella company D&M Holdings . These new denons with their new chipsets are a different generation to an extent but I agree best to wait [ ex integra dtr10.5 owner ] . I have the same ## player as you and I think the denon should certainly give a similar choice of dsd or pcm over hdmi
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