New Oppo BDP93 Blu-ray Player - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Any reason you didn't want the dedicated stereo output so much so that you decided not to buy the player? After all, we all have outputs on our players that we don't use - for example, I haven't used the optical output on any of my OPPO players, as far as I recall.

I'm not going to buy one if it includes a composite video output...
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post #542 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:28 AM
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[quote=Highlander_AVS;19284967]
Quote:


I hope so Bill

The BDP-95 or any other high end player from Oppo in the future will have dedicated R&L stereo outputs. This information is a response directly from Oppo regarding an email that I sent to Oppo inquiring whether dedicated R&L stereo outputs would be part of the 83SE replacement.

Quote:


But as I mentioned before these dedicated R&L stereo outs could be done taking the signals from the 7.1 front L&R and internally wiring them in parallel to a dedicated R&L stereo sockets/plugs

Maybe they could but I feel the design team of Oppo must be on to something as to why there will be dedicated R&L stereo outputs in the future. Just out of curiousity are you an engineer capable of designing components such as the BDP-93/95?

Quote:


Quote:


This way, you and who need will have the dedicated L&R stereo outs, but without the cost of additional DACS and dedicated stereo audio path Concentrating all the power of the best Dacs in quality on 7.1 outs ( where L&R stereo outs will come from )

I'm not concerned about the additional cost of the DACs as I'm sure the upcoming BDP-95 will be an exceptional performer as is the BDP-83SE. I will leave the design end of that up to the Oppo engineers who no doubt know what they are doing.

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post #543 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:32 AM
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gonk & others,

I want to follow up on a question I posted about region-free use. From your own experience with Oppo players, how soon after release did these mod kits start to appear for the 83?

I'd like to wait for the 93 but not if it'll take 6 months or more for a mod. If it typically takes them that much time, I'd probably just go with an 83/83SE before the supply dries up.

I planned on getting an Oppo & mod kit by end of this yr but that was before the 93 announcement

Steve
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post #544 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I'm not going to buy one if it includes a composite video output...



The funniest part about that is the realization that I hope to eventually move my BDP-83SE into my living room stereo system (where my 980H resides currently) with the stereo analog output connected to an Outlaw RR2150 receiver. Once that happens, it will be connected to a tiny LCD display via composite so I can navigate disc menus.

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post #545 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
gonk & others,

I want to follow up on a question I posted on region-free use. From your own experience with Oppo players, how soon did these mod kits start to appear for the 83?

I'd like to wait for the 93 but not if it typically takes the modders 6 months or more. If it's that much time, I'd probably just go with an 83/83SE.

I planned on getting an Oppo made reg free by end of year but that was before the announcement

I've never figured out the process by which those mods were developed. The BDP-83 had been out for a while before the mods appeared, but it was also the first such mod to be developed for an OPPO player. The BDP-80 mod arrived seemingly within days of that player's release. Considering the interest in the BDP-93, I bet the modders are going to be eager to get something to market at least as fast for it.

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post #546 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

gonk & others,

I want to follow up on a question I posted on region-free use. From your own experience with Oppo players, how soon did these mod kits start to appear for the 83?

I'd like to wait for the 93 but not if it'll take 6 months or more for a mod. If it's that much time, I'd probably just go with an 83/83SE before the supply dries up.

I planned on getting an Oppo & mod kit by end of yr but that was before the 93 announcement

Don't look now but the supply of 83s has dried up.

My recollection is that the region free mod from Denmark appeared not long after the player itself was introduced. If the 93 board layout is similar, it may take no time at all!

Dana

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post #547 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

I wish they would dump the dedicated stereo outputs on the 95 too. That's the reason I didn't buy the 83se.

And, isn't that about the only reason to go to the SE instead of the standard -83???
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post #548 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

gonk & others,

I want to follow up on a question I posted on region-free use. From your own experience with Oppo players, how soon did these mod kits start to appear for the 83?

I'd like to wait for the 93 but not if it'll take 6 months or more for a mod. If it's that much time, I'd probably just go with an 83/83SE before the supply dries up.

I planned on getting an Oppo & mod kit by end of yr but that was before the 93 announcement

It was within a couple of weeks but with the 83 you had the fairly long beta and initial early-adopter program. One or more region-free modders may have had a beta or early model to work with though I don't know if that was the case. My guess is that these region-free mods use some fairly standard region bypass eprom chip and that it is not real difficult to make whatever changes are needed for the player.

But that has been with Mediatek chipsets. If the 93/95 use some different chipset, there may or may not be a ready-made or easy-to-implement solution. Like everything else that people are speculating about here, I think we will just have to wait and see what happens. I wouldn't worry though that there will be a region-free mod. I am taking it as a given.

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post #549 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The ABT VRS uses a combination of Detail and Edge Enhancement to remove noise. This is not the same technology you would use for block or noise reduction. It is basically a cheat to cover up noise, rather than trying to actually remove it.

Not to remove mosquito noise or gaussian noise - those algorithms look the same on both chips. The block noise, on the other hand, looks like it is removed using a smoothing filter followed by edge detection and enhancement, which is similar to stuff you can do with VRS, but it's a careful balancing act - if you do too much enhancement, you bring back the blocks. Perhaps the Marvell team has done a better job here. In the Qdeo Extended Technology Brief image showing the block noise reduction, you can still see the blocks in the filtered image, but the edges are softened. That's really just about all you can realistically expect, I think. The edge enhancement in the Qdeo algorithms does look better than the VRS algorithm, though, so that may help some.

All in all Qdeo seems pretty good - not likely a step down in quality for anything but perhaps cadence detection, and possibly a little better in block noise removal. I'll be interested in seeing its performance handling DVDs, since that's what I rely on the VRS chip to do in my BDP-83.
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post #550 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Not sure about additional cost. Here's OPPO's Twitter response.



"Included" suggests to me it will be standard equipment.

Dana

Why not release the dongle as an optional item ? Since I am always going to use the Ethernet port for better performance this seems a bit wasteful to me. I am sure that dongle does not cost a lot, but I can see it just sitting in a drawer, collecting dust ...
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post #551 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bxconst View Post

Why not release the dongle as an optional item ? Since I am always going to use the Ethernet port for better performance this seems a bit wasteful to me. I am sure that dongle does not cost a lot, but I can see it just sitting in a drawer, collecting dust ...

I understand your logic; I will do the same thing. But, from a marketing perspective, then Wi-Fi would be "optional at extra cost" and at the retail price point the 93 is pegged at, everything needs to be "standard."

The same logic could apply to analog outs that I don't use, stereo outs that I don't use, etc.

I still think there is room in the OPPO lineup for a digital only model but I'm not holding my breath.

Dana

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post #552 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Wiring them in parallel as you suggest wouldn't be very useful. Ignoring any quality differences, the whole point of having dedicated stereo outputs in addition to the 7.1 outputs is so that the stereo outputs can contain a proper downmix of what's going to the 7.1 outputs when content other than stereo audio is being played. If you wire them in parallel, you throw that feature and the whole point of having the separate outputs out the window.

Right !!

But proper stereo downmix MUST BE done inside the Multichannel DSP !

At now, from Front L&R 7.1 outs, you can downmix all channels other than sub

Instead ... from Stereo L&R outs, at now, NO way to avoid downmix, playing a multichannels source .... ( possible only with SACD ) ( I mean, listen at only L&R channels from a multi ch source )

So, imho, it's better to "revisit" the Downmix concept, starting from scratch and on the 7.1 outs only
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post #553 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 10:22 AM
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I think the majority of folks would not be wired to the equipment area, and would benefit more from a wireless connection.
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post #554 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Any reason you didn't want the dedicated stereo output so much so that you decided not to buy the player? After all, we all have outputs on our players that we don't use - for example, I haven't used the optical output on any of my OPPO players, as far as I recall.

I don't have full range L/R speakers & if I recall the 83se didn't have bass management on the stereo analog outs.
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post #555 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

Is there going to be a flagship model?

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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

Yes, the BDP-95. But not for a while, maybe quite a while.


Wouldn't that just be their analog-centric model? That's a configuration geared toward a certain subset of the market, but I guess I don't see how that makes it "flagship."
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post #556 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Right !!

But proper stereo downmix MUST BE done inside the Multichannel DSP !

At now, from Front L&R 7.1 outs, you can downmix all channels other than sub

Instead ... from Stereo L&R outs, at now, NO way to avoid downmix, playing a multichannels source .... ( possible only with SACD ) ( I mean, listen at only L&R channels from a multi ch source )

So, imho, it's better to "revisit" the Downmix concept, starting from scratch and on the 7.1 outs only

Maybe its me but when will a stereo recording need to be downmixed? That is what I am using the R&L "stereo" outputs for, 2CH stereo audio. If I'm going to listen to SACD/DVD-A I use the 7.1 or the HDMI outputs.

Bill

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post #557 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

I don't have full range L/R speakers & if I recall the 83se didn't have bass management on the stereo analog outs.

No need for bass management with 2CH stereo content as there is no LFE channel content. If you want to use your sub for 2CH stereo content you would need to do the BM in an AVR or a preamp with BM capabilities. I do this with a Parasound 2100 preamp which has BM capability.

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post #558 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

I wish they would dump the dedicated stereo outputs on the 95 too. That's the reason I didn't buy the 83se.

That's hilarious!
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post #559 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Maybe its me but when will a stereo recording need to be downmixed? That is what I am using the R&L "stereo" outputs for, 2CH stereo audio. If I'm going to listen to SACD/DVD-A I use the 7.1 or the HDMI outputs.

Bill

Sure !!

Maby it's me that can't explain well ....

At now ... try to play a Stereo SACD and listen at it first from L&R front of 7.1 and later from the dedicated stereo L&R ... Dedicated Stereo will sound better cause Oppo has made a Stereo analog path and Dacs better than 7.1 outs !

This is why I wish the Same project adopted in the Stereo Path Applied to the 7.1 outs

As a workaurond, Playing a SACD mch or DTS CD mch, I tried to get the L&R front channels from the Stereo L&R dedicated and better Dac/path outs .... BUT ... NO ... no possible cause from those ... always outs a downmix signal when is playing a multichannel source and ther's no feature to turn downmix in the Stereo outs ON/OFF ....

So, I auspicate, Oppo will do only 1 Multichannel Analog Path with the 9016 Dacs in quad Stack and all the BSM and downmix features in order to use and DO ALL from the 7.1 outs with the higher and better audiophile quality
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post #560 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenity737 View Post

Responses to questions I posed to Oppo customer service (quality of upconversion, quality of audio, capability to play flac files).



2. Audio processing will be equal to or better than the BDP-83. The only disadvantage is that we no longer have a dedicated stereo output on the BDP-93.



Unless I'm missing somthing (which is quite possible), the lack of dedicated stereo outputs might present a potential problem to a very small subset of potential purchasers from a relatively "low-fi" (as distinguished from a probably more typical l"hi-fi") perspective... If you're feeding the player's signal directly to a slightly older (pre-HDMI) TV that has DVI in as its only digital input (my ~2003 Sony KE-42TS2U Plasma, for instance), how would you reasonably be able to connect the BDP-93 to the TV to get the audio across to it without the BDP-93 having dedicated stereo outputs?

Here's how I have my BDP-83 player connected to my Sony plasma -
BDP-83 DVI out > Sony KE-42TS2U DVI in, &
BDP-83 stereo out > Sony KE-42TS2U stereo in

Without the player's stereo out...? (I know, instead of running signals directly between the player & TV, one could get a receiver w/HDMI out & w/ stereo out, use an HDMI > DIV adapter and use the receiver's stereo out... but for the cost of all that you might just as well get a new TV w/HDMI...)
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post #561 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by r-gordon-7 View Post

Unless I'm missing somthing (which is quite possible), the lack of dedicated stereo outputs might present a potential problem to a very small subset of potential purchasers from a relatively "low-fi" (as distinguished from a probably more typical l"hi-fi") perspective...

I dare you to go into the 2-channel forum and say that.

-Bill
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post #562 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r-gordon-7 View Post

Unless I'm missing somthing (which is quite possible), the lack of dedicated stereo outputs might present a potential problem to a very small subset of potential purchasers from a relatively "low-fi" (as distinguished from a probably more typical l"hi-fi") perspective... If you're feeding the player's signal directly to a slightly older (pre-HDMI) TV that has DVI in as its only digital input (my ~2003 Sony KE-42TS2U Plasma, for instance), how would you reasonably be able to connect the BDP-93 to the TV to get the audio across to it without the BDP-93 having dedicated stereo outputs?

You would just use the front left / right outputs from the 7.1 outputs and tell the OPPO you only have 2 speakers. The only problem will be if you also need to use the 7.1 analog outputs to send audio to an older receiver that doesn't have HDMI.
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post #563 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:49 AM
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You can get the signal from the Front L&R of the 7.1 outs .
In the settings Set the downmix to STEREO and the game is done
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post #564 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

....The only problem will be if you also need to use the 7.1 analog outputs to send audio to an older receiver that doesn't have HDMI.

Anyway, exist passive switches for this task
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post #565 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

You can get the signal from the Front L&R of the 7.1 outs .
In the settings Set the downmix to STEREO and the game is done

Well, as I said, "Unless I'm missing somthing (which is quite possible)..."

Thanks
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post #566 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

I don't have full range L/R speakers & if I recall the 83se didn't have bass management on the stereo analog outs.

The stereo analog outputs don't have bass management because they don't have an associated subwoofer output - that's what the 7.1 analog output is for. If you are running a 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1 setup and need bass management in the player, the BDP-83SE (and stock BDP-83) has that by using the 7.1 analog output - as will the BDP-93, unless someone totally loses their mind.

If you have a dedicated stereo setup, however, then you either don't have a subwoofer, or you have a centralized bass management solution downstream of the player, or you will need to use the 7.1 analog output's left, right, and subwoofer outputs (although in that scenario, you need a receiver or pre-amp that provides a 2.1 analog input with single volume control for all three or you need to use the player's volume control so the sub volume tracks with the left and right speakers).

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post #567 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post


Wouldn't that just be their analog-centric model? That's a configuration geared toward a certain subset of the market, but I guess I don't see how that makes it "flagship."

Since the video performance of previous Oppo players has been state-of-the-art at the time of release, what enhancements could be made on the video side for a flagship player? It is the audio side that can be improved.

The only other thing they could do would be to put the chassis in a heavier, prettier and fancier case (oh, but wait, Lexicon has already done that).

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post #568 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I dare you to go into the 2-channel forum and say that.

-Bill

Bill, by "low -fi" I was referring merely to direct connection of the player to the TV and the use of the TV's two relatively "low-fi" internal speakers as per the disucssion in the rest of my post - not to stereo vs multi-channel sound reproduction issues!
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post #569 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Sure !!

Maby it's me that can't explain well ....

At now ... try to play a Stereo SACD and listen at it first from L&R front of 7.1 and later from the dedicated stereo L&R ... Dedicated Stereo will sound better cause Oppo has made a Stereo analog path and Dacs better than 7.1 outs !

This is why I wish the Same project adopted in the Stereo Path Applied to the 7.1 outs

As a workaurond, Playing a SACD mch or DTS CD mch, I tried to get the L&R front channels from the Stereo L&R dedicated and better Dac/path outs .... BUT ... NO ... no possible cause from those ... always outs a downmix signal when is playing a multichannel source and ther's no feature to turn downmix in the Stereo outs ON/OFF ....

So, I auspicate, Oppo will do only 1 Multichannel Analog Path with the 9016 Dacs in quad Stack and all the BSM and downmix features in order to use and DO ALL from the 7.1 outs with the higher and better audiophile quality

You're really talking about 2 different things and trying to merge them into 1 which is confusing people:

1) You don't like that OPPO gave the 83 and 83SE higher quality dedicated stereo outputs compared to their 7.1 outputs. That isn't a reason to get rid of the dedicated stereo outputs. Asking that ALL analog outputs get equal treatment is a reasonable request, just keep in mind that it would increase the cost (which can become a problem when you're trying to hit a certain price point).

2) You don't like that downmixing is always applied to the dedicated 2 channel outputs. We'll have to agree to disagree on your take on this. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all to ever disable the downmix on the dedicated 2 channel outputs because you would end up with limited bass and you'd be missing content from the other channels that is often important (why else would it be there). If you really only want the front left and right audio and nothing else from a 5.1 or 7.1 source, you do have the option of using just those channels from the existing 7.1 output though it doesn't make any sense to do so. Again, your complaints about using different DAC's on the 2 channel and 7.1 channel outputs is understood.
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post #570 of 1323 Old 10-04-2010, 12:09 PM
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[quote=Highlander_AVS;19286178]
Quote:


At now ... try to play a Stereo SACD and listen at it first from L&R front of 7.1 and later from the dedicated stereo L&R ... Dedicated Stereo will sound better cause Oppo has made a Stereo analog path and Dacs better than 7.1 outs !

Well from my perspective I'm very happy that the DACs for the R&L stereo outputs are better with the BDP-83SE. The reason I am is that most of the music I listen to is 2CH stereo.

Quote:


This is why I wish the Same project adopted in the Stereo Path Applied to the 7.1 outs

Maybe you will get your wish with the BDP-93.

Quote:


As a workaurond, Playing a SACD mch or DTS CD mch, I tried to get the L&R front channels from the Stereo L&R dedicated and better Dac/path outs .... BUT ... NO ... no possible cause from those ... always outs a downmix signal when is playing a multichannel source and ther's no feature to turn downmix in the Stereo outs ON/OFF ....

I would think you would want to use the same signal path and DACs for all 5.1 channels but thats just me. The question is can you really tell the difference between the DACs for both R&L (R&L Front for MCH) outputs?

Quote:


So, I auspicate, Oppo will do only 1 Multichannel Analog Path with the 9016 Dacs in quad Stack and all the BSM and downmix features in order to use and DO ALL from the 7.1 outs with the higher and better audiophile quality

Maybe Oppo will do this with the DACs for the BDP-93 but maybe they will save the higher quality DACs for the BDP-95. Of course then the BDP-95 will have a dedicated R&L stereo output so you might be back to square one if the DACs are better than the 7.1 output. But that would be fine with me though.

Bill

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