New Oppo BDP93 Blu-ray Player - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1323 Old 09-25-2010, 08:05 PM
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There is no replacement for the BDP-80. Based on the comments we have seen, it looks like the BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE are receiving replacements, but the BDP-80 is not.
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post #182 of 1323 Old 09-25-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

What would you want the inputs for?

I thought it would be a good way to further take advantage of the SE's Sabre DACs which are very good DACs. Cambridge Audio 840C has this feature with two sets of S/P DIF and Toslink inputs.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets...rear-black.jpg

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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Ah! Isn't that what they make pre-amps (and DACs) for? No seriously, if you're going to need good audio processing for multiple sources, I don't really see how the SE makes sense. Putting the money into a good, central unit that can serve all your sources, and using players as transports, seems like an easier, more efficient solution to me.

You are probably right but it would have been a nice option.

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post #183 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 02:17 AM
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Hi to all

Any news from Jason about NuForce plans ?

I LOVE my 83SE NU Force Edition and really wish to see a similar/better ANALOG out quality in a New 3D Compilant Oppo machine !

Quote:


Oppo is also working on a higher-end model. However, unlike the BDP-83SE (which was based on the BDP-83), this new flagship player will be built from the ground up. It isn't yet scheduled for release, so it will come well after the BDP-93 is well on the market.

Well ... seems I must wait for This ...
Is it the 95 ?? or simply, the 93 SE ???

Thanks
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post #184 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Just got off the phone with NetFlix. When I asked about compatible devices, he mentioned Oppo. I said "no way". Of course he says "way". So I thought I had a scoop. Evidently I only have a half a scoop. He said they are supporting the Oppo 93 and 95!
...

From this previous post and the interview with Jason where he indicated the SE replacement would be built "from the ground up," it appears OPPO has assigned it a separate model number - 95.

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post #185 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

There is no replacement for the BDP-80. Based on the comments we have seen, it looks like the BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE are receiving replacements, but the BDP-80 is not.

That's disappointing. It would appear Oppo has abandoned the consumer end of the market and are focusing solely on the upper end. But maybe that's the smart move.
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post #186 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

That's disappointing. It would appear Oppo has abandoned the consumer end of the market and are focusing solely on the upper end. But maybe that's the smart move.

Maybe OPPO is focusing more on the upper end of the consumer market - defined in my mind by what is sold on Amazon - but that's hardly the real "upper end" where prices are in four figures and availability is through specialty AV shops and custom installers. Apparently the 93 price will be pegged to the 83 price.

My concern with the 80 always was that it would cannibalize sales of the 83. I was wrong. They actually coexisted rather well and the 80 helped introduce the OPPO brand and performance to a wider audience. But, with a complete makeover for the 83 successor in the 93 and development of an entirely new model for the audiophile in the 95, OPPO needs to recover its investment by selling them. A warmed over 80 really would be counter productive this time around.

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post #187 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

That's disappointing. It would appear Oppo has abandoned the consumer end of the market and are focusing solely on the upper end. But maybe that's the smart move.

glangford,

Seems like a good focus. The consumer end of the market is flooded and most at that price point don't have much use for the added features of an Oppo player. I've seen many posts stating that they are not buying the Oppo because they don't need the added media support. I guess Oppo is leaving that market to Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Pioneer and Sony just to name a few, which have nice products.

On the other hand the $500+ market for a "Universal" player is somewhat fertile. I feel like Oppo has almost done the impossible by coming out with worthy successor to the BDP-83 while holding price, where similar players from Denon and Marantz were introduced at $300 and $400 more, respectively. I've had a long association with Oppo and this is just Oppo being Oppo.


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post #188 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by subavision212 View Post

I know several of the Rokus will display 1080 (the two new versions; the replaced XR will do 1080 with a upcoming firmware update) and the new SonyN100 is also 1080 ready.

yes, but isn't netflix fixed at a lower res irrespective of what box you have streaming it

Will the oppo display streamed content at 1080? I am way behind on this function and feature and need to read up

Dan
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post #189 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:03 AM
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I'm very happy to see this new Oppo coming. The price sure looks right.

I have an older Sony Bluray and Denon 5910 for SACD and HD Audio and just got a new Panny 3d VT25 58" so I've been looking for a one device solution for those three things. I have Apple TV if I want HD Movies without buying the disk so not so interested in Netflix.

I do have a question about the Oppo SACD quality vs the 5910. I know technology has changed since the 5910 came out so I would expect the Oppo, 83 or 93, to be as good or better. Does this make sense or should I wait for a 93SE just to get a little better analog sound with the bluray and 3d options? I've never heard an Oppo just tried to read the thousands of post about them here!
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post #190 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

glangford,

Seems like a good focus. The consumer end of the market is flooded and most at that price point don't have much use for the added features of an Oppo player. I've seen many posts stating that they are not buying the Oppo because they don't need the added media support. I guess Oppo is leaving that market to Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Pioneer and Sony just to name a few, which have nice products.

On the other hand the $500+ market for a "Universal" player is somewhat fertile. I feel like Oppo has almost done the impossible by coming out with worthy successor to the BDP-83 while holding price, where similar players from Denon and Marantz were introduced at $300 and $400 more, respectively. I’ve had a long association with Oppo and this is just Oppo being Oppo.


Willie

Really? Why on earth would you think this? The very nature of digital chip manufactures has been to pack more dense, fuller featured product in the next generation and hold the price relatively constant. In fact manufactures like Oppo, Sony, etc. are more or less pushed to offer a new unit based on this evolution as manufacturing stops on last seasons chip. The circle is complete and begins again on a 12 to 18 month basis. The business plan is Moore's Law.

Oppo as a brand name in the US, is seen more or less as a boutique manufacture. They in fact have positioned themselves that way by internet selling, and the value added spin-offs under their name. But in-fact, Oppo is a huge Chinese electronics manufacture under it's own brand names and a major OEM manufacturer to the likes of Denon and others.

People in the US are "conditioned" via media advertising to make purchase decisions on a "brand name caste system". Product differentiation is often only a small variation of the basic platform or direct snob appeal. As examples, the Oppo BDP-83 re-badged as the Lexicon BD-30; or objectively compare the Pioneer BDP-05/51/09.

The remarkable achievement of Oppo was offering value equal to or better than the big name manufactures for 25% of the cost. A good amount of the price difference is the distribution chain, internet direct from Oppo vs the mark-up of manufacturer to distributor to retailer.

There will be a replacement for the BDP-80 just as sure as there is an Oppo doing business. Oppo knows that there are people that want an Oppo BDP-93 but can't or won't spend $500. Oppo knows very well how to work in the low end of the market.
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post #191 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:24 AM
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I was just going to post about trying to find a replacement for my Yamaha C-950 changer.

I don't use it for DVDs, only DVD-A and SACD, my PS3 plays BD and DVD.

I don't care about the changer anymore and my wife wants to keep the PS3 in her office for Guitar Hero so I'm looking for a good all in one.

I saw the multi channel analog at the back, can I assume this unit also plays DVD-A even though I see no mention of it.

I made quite an investment in being able to play DVD-A/SACD in multi channel analog so want to be able to keep that setup.
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post #192 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

No way. The Oppo is a Bluray player with SOME streaming and DLNA capability, like any other modern player. The Dune is a real media player that can play Bluray depending on the configuration. The big difference is the variety of file formats the Dune can process whereas the Oppo or any other BD player can't. Support of HDD and NTFS is also a must for a real media player and I doubt we will see it anytime soon on the Oppo.

For less than 100 bucks you can buy a decent media player to complement the Oppo and have the best of the 2 worlds. I am happy with my WDLIVE+ and also had the Asus O!play that can play all my media. The Dune would just be icing on the cake.

I will buy the Oppo 93 because I need SACD, Netflix and in near future the 2 HDMI outputs.

Yet, I keep hoping that the Oppo 93 (95) will enable me to play FLAC files from an external HDD, I believe it DACs and analogue audio section in general will be better than those found in "100 bucks" media players.
Since my pre-amp doesn't have HDMI ins, I need analogue connections.
And since Oppo support Hi-rez formats like SACD and DVD-A (the main reason why I'm interested in the Oppo players, apart from blu-ray), why not support lossless media files as well? Especially since Flac is an open source codec, so no royalties need to be paid!

With the inclusion of an eSata port in addition to the 2 USB ports and with Wireless-N networking, it seems that Oppo intends to raise the networking/media player capabilities of their new players to a new level, so who knows, maybe a separate media player won't be necessary anymore
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post #193 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

There will be a replacement for the BDP-80 just as sure as there is an Oppo doing business. Oppo knows that there are people that want an Oppo BDP-93 but can't or won't spend $500. Oppo knows very well how to work in the low end of the market.

Price competition in the low end is very tough. Differentiation in the low-end will also be very tough to accomplish. For someone like OPPO who does direct sales, there is no immediate need to release a player which competes in the low end.

Look at the release of the BDP-80. It came nearly a year after the BDP-83 was on the market. OPPO was operating just fine on the BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE during that time period.
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post #194 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michdys View Post

Yet, I keep hoping that the Oppo 93 (95) will enable me to play FLAC files from an external HDD, I believe it DACs and analogue audio section in general will be better than those found in "100 bucks" media players.
Since my pre-amp doesn't have HDMI ins, I need analogue connections.
And since Oppo support Hi-rez formats like SACD and DVD-A (the main reason why I'm interested in the Oppo players, apart from blu-ray), why not support lossless media files as well? Especially since Flac is an open source codec, so no royalties need to be paid!

With the inclusion of an eSata port in addition to the 2 USB ports and with Wireless-N networking, it seems that Oppo intends to raise the networking/media player capabilities of their new players to a new level, so who knows, maybe a separate media player won't be necessary anymore

My comment was more about video formats. There are more than 20 video formats and I don't know any BD player which plays more than 5 of them. Even the cheap media players are capable to play all of them. Using media servers like Tversity and Playon will extend the potential but requires a standby PC. If the Oppo plays the format you want, fine, but as a general media player it will never match a Dune. I think Oppo should actually buy Dune and them perhaps we can have the best of the best.

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post #195 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Price competition in the low end is very tough. Differentiation in the low-end will also be very tough to accomplish. For someone like OPPO who does direct sales, there is no immediate need to release a player which competes in the low end.

Agreed. And most manufactures that work in this market segment do so by "locking out" certain features on the SoC for economy of scale. Also, the exclusion of premium chips or parts is to be expected. Exactly what they did with the BDP-80.

Look what Intel is doing now. You can pay Intel and they will give you a key to unlock additional performance from a given CPU.

Point is, in todays world, it's cheaper to build a premium product and dumb it down for the entry level market than to design two or more machines.

Quote:


Look at the release of the BDP-80. It came nearly a year after the BDP-83 was on the market. OPPO was operating just fine on the BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE during that time period.

We're talking cross purposes here. Oppo Digital is a North American regional business unit of BBK-Oppo Electronics; BBK-Oppo Electronics is clearly one of the largest CE manufactures today. Oppo Electronics major markets are Eastern Europe and Asia. Oppo has the experience, knowledge, and products to work the low end of the market in the US if they choose to.

I believe the BDP-80 sold for $299. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Not exactly the low end of the market as you can buy Sony, Panasonic, etc in the $149 or less range.

It cost approximately the same money to ship a $500 unit vs a $100 unit from China and on to the customer. Of course the $500 unit has more margin so why wouldn't you focus your efforts here? You make a higher return for the same logistic costs.

My point is that Oppo knows how to build and sell low cost machines. And, I believe there will be a replacement for the BDP-80 in time. Even Oppo states on their web site that:
Quote:


Due to a shortage of major components, we have ceased production of this model.

Something will replace it. If you've ever done business in China you find out very quickly they do not leave dollars on the table.

At this point, the competitive position is to offer what they have with the BDP-83 with improved entertainment networking capability; the BDP-93. Oppo's primary business in the past has been OEM. They have established a brand name in the west with Oppo Digital. Diversification of product will continue.

Edit: Here's a link to information regarding the creation of the Oppo brand name for international markets and product recognition. The work was done by "Studio Dumbar" from the Netherlands with offices in Shanghai.

http://www.dumbarbranding.com/en/ind...detail/6/oppo/
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post #196 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 10:21 AM
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Who would buy a dumbed down Oppo for 300 bucks if you can buy a full feature Sony/Panasonic for 150 ? I don't think the Oppo 80 was a huge success and for the mass consumer market 150 dollar is a hell of money. I like Oppo for the premium products at decent prices. A cheap Oppo is like a cheap Mercedes , doesn't sell very well. A Oppo 80 replacement would have to sell below 200.00 and I am not sure if they can make money with that unless the sales force can match the big guys, which I doubt.

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post #197 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 11:25 AM
 
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I'm bummed that the Oppo 80 is no longer available. I waited too long, and now I have to wait for the new 93 at a much higher price. The only feature I'm really interested in is the subtitle shift, as I plan on doing a 2.35:1 screen using the zoom method. My PJ already has a high quality Reon chip, so I would have been all set with the 80, bummer!
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post #198 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 12:28 PM
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Have to agree and there are many other fine points above..... I recommended the -80 to many folks that would never spend $500 for the -83 but wanted something a bit better than the "stock" players from the "big" guys (who are more interested in profits via large numbers than quality players and customer service).

Hard to tell how successful the -80 was since I have never seen anything from Oppo how they measure one way or the other (on any model). It may be that Oppo does decide not to offer a "mid tier" product as that space gets crowded.

The market does seem to warrant a focus on networking and multimedia capabilities as streaming seems to be the direction (even though this sacrifices PQ and SQ) that our hobby seems to be heading.
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post #199 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I'm bummed that the Oppo 80 is no longer available. I waited too long, and now I have to wait for the new 93 at a much higher price. The only feature I'm really interested in is the subtitle shift, as I plan on doing a 2.35:1 screen using the zoom method. My PJ already has a high quality Reon chip, so I would have been all set with the 80, bummer!

I think you'll find that the 93 (or 83 if you chose to pick up one of those) has lots more worthwhile features than subtitle shift. And most importantly, the VP in either of those Oppos would be a noticeable improvement over your PJ's Reon. So don't be disappointed about the 80...you're going to end up with one of the best players on the markets for what is really dirt cheap, compared to other high-end AV components.
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post #200 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 01:02 PM
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I don't see how the bdp 93 and 83 could have the same price, when the 93 is the same thing with more features.
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post #201 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kiko1 View Post

I don't see how the bdp 93 and 83 could have the same price, when the 93 is the same thing with more features.

b curry summarized it pretty well a few posts back.
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post #202 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck05 View Post

...

Hard to tell how successful the -80 was since I have never seen anything from Oppo how they measure one way or the other (on any model). It may be that Oppo does decide not to offer a "mid tier" product as that space gets crowded.

...

I have watched Amazon's top 100 ranking of sales of BD players quite a bit. In late June the 83 was in position 12 and amazingly the 80 was 14th in sales volume.

By the end of August the 83 ranked 15th on the Amazon bestseller list while the 80 was 26th.

As of today, the 83 is ranked 20th even though it is temporarily out of stock! The 83 is the only BD player in the top 20 with a full five star rating.

Dana

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post #203 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 03:47 PM
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Interesting. Wonder what the data would look like if the direct sales were included...
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post #204 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 04:27 PM
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Thx for your posts 190 and 195, "b curry."
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post #205 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 05:56 PM
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I have absolutely no interest either in Netflix or 3D. My primary interests are and remain having the highest possible up-conversion PQ for DVDs -and the availability of [3rd party modded] all-region play for all DVDs and all BDs. The 83 excells in each. If the 93 doesn't do either of these materially better (or even as well) as the [modded] all-region 83 does, I'll be sticking with the 83. (As someone who just bought two modded all-region 83s this year, I doubt I'll be in the market for a new player anytime soon anyhow.)

Virtually my only complaints/wish-list items with the 83 lie in a few very specific (and admittedly narrow) areas of FWD/REV play and subtitle display in FWD/REV modes.

Is it known yet whether the 93 will offer improvement over the 83 in terms of either:

1. ...smoothness of FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't do "smooth" FWD at faster than +2, nor does it do "smooth" REV at all - it just does a choppy sequence of progressive "stills" at increasingly skipped intervals as the speed is increased - according to Oppo, this issue is hardware-limited in the 83, due to one of the chips in use.)

2. ...display of subtitles in FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't display subtitles in REV at all, nor in FWD at speeds over +2, which - especially the former - makes it difficult to easily go back to re-read a subtitle that was hard to read or didn't stay on-screen for long enough.)

These improvements, if made, probably wouldn't be sufficient to make me upgrade anyhow, but they would be more likely to make me consider doing so than either Netflix or 3D, in which I have no interest.
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post #206 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by r-gordon-7 View Post

I have absolutely no interest either in Netflix or 3D. My primary interests are and remain having the highest possible up-conversion PQ for DVDs -and the availability of [3rd party modded] all-region play for all DVDs and all BDs. The 83 excells in each. If the 93 doesn't do either of these materially better (or even as well) as the [modded] all-region 83 does, I'll be sticking with the 83. (As someone who just bought two modded all-region 83s this year, I doubt I'll be in the market for a new player anytime soon anyhow.)

Virtually my only complaints/wish-list items with the 83 lie in a few very specific (and admittedly narrow) areas of FWD/REV play and subtitle display in FWD/REV modes.

Is it known yet whether the 93 will offer improvement over the 83 in terms of either:

1. ...smoothness of FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't do "smooth" FWD at faster than +2, nor does it do "smooth" REV at all - it just does a choppy sequence of progressive "stills" at increasingly skipped intervals as the speed is increased - according to Oppo, this issue is hardware-limited in the 83, due to one of the chips in use.)

2. ...display of subtitles in FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't display subtitles in REV at all, nor in FWD at speeds over +2, which - especially the former - makes it difficult to easily go back to re-read a subtitle that was hard to read or didn't stay on-screen for long enough.)

These improvements, if made, probably wouldn't be sufficient to make me upgrade anyhow, but they would be more likely to make me consider doing so than either Netflix or 3D, in which I have no interest.

wow.
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post #207 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by r-gordon-7 View Post

Is it known yet whether the 93 will offer improvement over the 83 in terms of either:

We barely know that the player exists and what the general feature set is. I wouldn't expect to know anything about specific details such as this until the player is shipping to customers.

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post #208 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 07:56 PM
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double wow

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post #209 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r-gordon-7 View Post

1. ...smoothness of FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't do "smooth" FWD at faster than +2, nor does it do "smooth" REV at all - it just does a choppy sequence of progressive "stills" at increasingly skipped intervals as the speed is increased - according to Oppo, this issue is hardware-limited in the 83, due to one of the chips in use.)

2. ...display of subtitles in FWD & REV play? (The 83 doesn't display subtitles in REV at all, nor in FWD at speeds over +2, which - especially the former - makes it difficult to easily go back to re-read a subtitle that was hard to read or didn't stay on-screen for long enough.)

Yup. As recently as a few days ago when I spun Gone Baby Gone as a Affleck/Beantown refresher before going to see the terrific The Town, I had some Irish brogue dialogue intelligibility issues that once again made me wish for a feature that goes back, say, 3-5 seconds, turns on subs and then turns them off at the touch of one button. (I guess I could program this into a universal remote?) Absent that kind of macro deliciousness, your number 1 is related to your number 2 for me insofar as doing this manually is made a wee bit more tedious by the slowness of the player's 'rewind' (and fast forward) capabilities.

This has of course been discussed in the owners' thread so there's no need to thrash it again here but, to the extent the "wowage" intimates incredulity at R-Gordon's comments, it might need re-saying that he's not alone.

Those two items and glitch-free SACD and DVD-A playback would be on my wish list above Netflix streaming, too. From their Epix and Nip/Tuck deals to last week's rollout of their Canadian streaming service, there's been a helluva lotta movement in and attention given to the Nf streaming service in recent months. But folks have a lotta choices in the streaming "space." For instance, my new Mitsu DLP offers wireless Vudu. So folks can get streaming of perhaps a different flavor elsewhere. That's not the case with arguably basic/core player functionalities such as these two concerns and a universal deck's solid playback of all the established packaged media formats it purports to play.
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post #210 of 1323 Old 09-26-2010, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

This has of course been discussed in the owners' thread so there's no need to thrash it again here but, to the extent the "wowage" intimates incredulity at R-Gordon's comments, it might need re-saying that he's not alone.

I think the "wow"s are related to the level of detail involved in the question as it relates to a product about which we know very little and which is still months away from release, not about the underlying question itself.

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