Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Your receiver cannot process a DSD signal anyway. It converts it to PCM.

I guess I may need to re-read the earlier posts. So are you saying that if the 93 does the conversion from DSD to PCM instead of the avr, then I will be able to use HDMI out 1 on the 93? That is what I will do if that solves the issue. What is more important to me is the SD-DVD PQ of the 93.
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post #542 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Your receiver cannot process a DSD signal anyway. It converts it to PCM. Even if it did, I'm quite sure you are using MCACC and it would be converting DSD into PCM to process the signal. So, for the time being, set SACD processing to LPCM. You may even leave it there....no big deal.
SACD-DSD works like a charm between my Sony S570 and the Pioneer VSX-94. The Pioneer will not convert DSD to PCM if the receiver is set to "PURE DIRECT". In this case, MCACC is not active and "SACD DSD" will show up on the screen. The sound is clearly superior in this mode, much better than PCM. I have also the VSX-74 and the result is the same.

BTW, did anybody tried to deactivate the MCACC before sending the SACD in DSD mode ?

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post #543 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by J450N View Post
I guess I may need to re-read the earlier posts. So are you saying that if the 93 does the conversion from DSD to PCM instead of the avr, then I will be able to use HDMI out 1 on the 93? That is what I will do if that solves the issue. What is more important to me is the SD-DVD PQ of the 93.
That is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
SACD-DSD works like a charm between my Sony S570 and the Pioneer VSX-94. The Pioneer will not convert DSD to PCM if the receiver is set to "PURE DIRECT". In this case, MCACC is not active and "SACD DSD" will show up on the screen. The sound is clearly superior in this mode, much better than PCM. I have also the VSX-74 and the result is the same.

BTW, did anybody tried to deactivate the MCACC before sending the SACD in DSD mode ?
This all depends on what Pioneer AVR model as most cannot process a DSD signal even in Pure Direct mode.

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post #544 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 09:59 PM
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DSD converted to PCM is not DSD. If the receiver can process DSD the SACD will sound better, if the receiver can't process DSD the resulting audio will be the same (PCM) processed by the player or the receiver.

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post #545 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
That is correct.


This all depends on what Pioneer AVR model as most cannot process a DSD signal even in Pure Direct mode.
The new models can and the VSX-94 is already 5 years old. I bet few people doesn't even know that the receiver must be set to "PURE DIRECT" to get DSD.

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post #546 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
The Pioneer will not convert DSD to PCM if the receiver is set to "PURE DIRECT". In this case, MCACC is not active and "SACD DSD" will show up on the screen.
As far as I know from reading the manual of the vsx-1018, it is not capable of processing DSD and will convert it to PCM regardless of the MCACC being active or inactive. Am I wrong? I realize this is getting off topic and I may need to migrate to the 1018 thread. Either way, now I am more anxious to get the 93 than ever so I can experiment with it myself.
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post #547 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Fellow member still not having a single issue with the 93 connected to an Pioneer SC-07 using HDMI for both audio and video. It might help if we (pioneer) owners share more detail about settings including the order you turn your equipment on. I played thee movies today (scott pilgram, aliens and predators with no issues - 24p is enable and no lipsych problems either. Plus numerous SACDs and other fun stuff. There has to be a solution so let's figure it out. I find it hard to believe I am the only one withna Pioneer not having issues.
Have a Pioneer VSX-01 with the 93. No problems, just slight lipsync problems all are having.
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post #548 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J450N View Post
As far as I know from reading the manual of the vsx-1018, it is not capable of processing DSD and will convert it to PCM regardless of the MCACC being active or inactive. Am I wrong? I realize this is getting off topic and I may need to migrate to the 1018 thread. Either way, now I am more anxious to get the 93 than ever so I can experiment with it myself.
That's correct. the vsx-1018 will not process DSD. The Elite models since the VSX-9X will do it. Sorry if I made things even more confused.

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post #549 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
Sorry if I made things even more confused.
No worries. It might only change my thoughts on what avr I end up with next more than anything.
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post #550 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
DSD converted to PCM is not DSD. If the receiver can process DSD the SACD will sound better, if the receiver can't process DSD the resulting audio will be the same (PCM) processed by the player or the receiver.
Was this directed at me? I don't remember stating that PCM was DSD when they are to different processes.

SACD will sound better in DSD mode over PCM? Where did you come up with that theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
The new models can and the VSX-94 is already 5 years old. I bet few people doesn't even know that the receiver must be set to "PURE DIRECT" to get DSD.
I would bet that your receiver doesn't process a DSD signal. When you AVR is on "Pure Direct" mode, does you VSX-94 front display still read DSD> PCM? I'm looking at your manual now and it seems clear as the SC-07 and states that it converts DSD signals to PCM.

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post #551 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:44 PM
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fired up the new 93 tonight and I don't know if it's the fact that it goes directly to the jvc rs35 now and not thru the receiver but the picture sure seems to look better..both bd and sd discs. i sold my 83 already so can't do a side by side but avatar was sharper more 3d and some sd discs looked really crisp. maybe others will see the same. i like it..
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post #552 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Was this directed at me? I don't remember stating that PCM was DSD when they are to different processes.

SACD will sound better in DSD mode over PCM? Where did you come up with that theory?


I would bet that your receiver doesn't process a DSD signal. When you AVR is on "Pure Direct" mode, does you VSX-94 front display still read DSD> PCM? I'm looking at your manual now and it seems clear as the SC-07 and states that it converts DSD signals to PCM.
It wasn't directed at you but to everybody concerned about the best possible SACD sound using a modern Pioneer receiver.

SACD in DSD mode , with my receiver set in "PURE DIRECT" does sound better , clearly better. It's not a theory, just an observation.

Don't bet, you gonna lose. When I set the S570 to DSD and the Pioneer to "PURE DIRECT" , "SACD DIRECT" shows up on the screen. That's the only way to know that indeed the DSD is being processed by the receiver and NOT converted to PCM. Pag 96 on the manual.

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post #553 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
The Elite models since the VSX-9X will do it. Sorry if I made things even more confused.
Please, stop confusing people and do some homework.
The only current but not new Elite model that can process a DSD signal is the SC-09.

Edit: Okay, I admit that I'm wrong about the VSX-94. As it looks like it was the last top Elite model to process DSD. I could not find this fact in the manual. As of now, the only Elite model to process a DSD signal is the SC-09. No other Elite model does. Lucky you!

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post #554 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Please, stop confusing people and do some homework.
The only current but not new Elite model that can process a DSD signal is the SC-09.



Sure, mine states the same thing but right above that, it states DSD> PCM.

Excerpt from the VSX-94 and SC-07 manual: DSD> PCM lights during DSD (Digital
Stream Direct) to PCM conversion with SACDs
The DSD>PCM light is OFF when PURE DIRECT is selected and SACD DIRECT shows up on the screen. It's ON with any other mode.

I have already apologized for my mistake when I realized that only the new ELITE models will process DSD over HDMI. See my previous post .

I am not only doing my homework but also trying to comment on my own experience. There are many posts on the net talking about the Pioneer 94 and its capacity to process DSD without any conversion to PCM.

I am too tired to give you the links but there are even lists of receivers which don't convert DSD to PCM, not only Pioneer but several others.

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post #555 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:24 PM
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Ok, since we finally agree, I would like to know if anybody here has a DSD direct capable Pioneer receiver, set to "PURE DIRECT" and still have no audio from the BDP-93 HDMI-1. I am trying to understand if the bug only affects the player linked to receivers which must to the conversion to PCM or it doesn't matter.

Any thoughts, Perpendicular ?

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post #556 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
See my previous post .

I am too tired to give you the links but there are even lists of receivers which don't convert DSD to PCM, not only Pioneer but several others.
Alright, see my previous Post too.

FYI: We were discussing Pioneer, not other receivers.

I would still suggest using PCM because room correction is far better than DSD in direct mode. This was my point with the BDP-93 in the first place.

We're all good. Moving on....

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post #557 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
Ok, since we finally agree, I would like to know if anybody here has a DSD direct capable Pioneer receiver, set to "PURE DIRECT" and still have no audio from the BDP-93 HDMI-1. I am trying to understand if the bug only affects the player linked to receivers which must to the conversion to PCM or it doesn't matter.

Any thoughts, Perpendicular ?
No, it sounds like it doesn't matter. We already had a Pioneer SC-09 owner with the same problem. Also, an Onkyo owner. What Neuromancer has stated previously, it has something to do with the Marvell chipset in the signal path.

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post #558 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:37 PM
 
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As an SC-05 owner (awaiting shipment of a BDP-93), I guess setting "DSD" or "PURE DIRECT" is basically a game of pros and cons.
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post #559 of 27084 Old 11-26-2010, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
As an SC-05 owner (awaiting shipment of a BDP-93), I guess setting "DSD" or "PURE DIRECT" is basically a game of pros and cons.
Did you mean setting DSD or LPCM in the BDP-93 for your SC-05?

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post #560 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 12:34 AM
 
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Yes, yes, I (probably) did. In a confuzzled state...I forgot PURE DIRECT is a setting on the receiver.
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post #561 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Adventures of Robin Hood is 4:3 black and white. The bars are matted on the source. The previews and other menus are likely done in 16:9, but the actual film is 4:3.
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post #562 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
No, it sounds like it doesn't matter. We already had a Pioneer SC-09 owner with the same problem. Also, an Onkyo owner. What Neuromancer has stated previously, it has something to do with the Marvell chipset in the signal path.
FWIW/comparison, my Denon 988(2808) gets DSD from HDMI 1 and shows "DSD MULTI DRCT" so it may not necessarily be the chip. Mind you, I have to change my amp assignment to be 5.1 + Zone 2 instead of my usual 7.1. In 7.1 DSD shows up as something else on the display. Try switching to just a 5.1 setup and see if that does anything.

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post #563 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
I paid $499 for the privilege of beta testing. Really? I don't owe Oppo anything.



You mean instead of letting people outside of the official beta community know problems exist?

Furthermore, what makes you think that no one from Oppo is capable of responding in this thread?
Hear, hear! I, for one, am glad you and others posted and thank you.

When I received the invitation, I decided to wait until it was "finished." There was no urgency, since the BDP-83 works fine, I use purpose-built streamers (TViX and HTPC: DLNA is simply lame) and get Netflix through a TiVo S3.

However, after a frustration therapy session with the Samsung BD-UP5000 (grrr) in the basement, I placed an order for the -93. That was unwarranted, and I am now back to waiting for it to be "finished."

Based on their record, I'm fairly confident that eventually Oppo will make good, but I no longer buy electronics on spec (for their "potential").

Edit: . . . and please don't bother to remind me that it's a pre-release product. As I said, I'll wait until it's "finished." (Some here are so defensive!)

Edit 2: Boy, this thread moves fast!
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post #564 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 02:55 AM
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Anyone uses the BDP-93 with a Yamaha RX-A2000 or 3000? Any handshake or other issues?
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post #565 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 04:28 AM
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im wondering if you guys can help me out. I just recently purchased a sony bdp-s570 from amazon for a good price to replace my sony ps3. I want it for 3d functionality with my brand new 55 inch nx series sony. Now I have not received my sony 3d blu ray player yet so I can still return it. I was wondering if you think I should wait for the oppo 93 to be wide released and purchase one or just keep the sony? I use it for only blu rays. watching maybe 3-4 dvd's and streaming netflix once in a while. I will not use it for anything else, but I was not sure if there is going to be a noticeable difference in pq in blu rays. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

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post #566 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Thanks. Didn't put that together...

Question: I assume WMA Pro like in the second example I cite as not working is not intended to work? I see WMA listed as a functioning audio code, but as I recall WMA Pro is really a totally different beast.
No OPPO player as ever had WMA Pro, Lossless or Voice, so I'm guessing lossy WMA is it. Would the others require licensing? In any case, support would have to come from the decoder chip maker.

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post #567 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lforigno View Post
im wondering if you guys can help me out. I just recently purchased a sony bdp-s570 from amazon for a good price to replace my sony ps3. I want it for 3d functionality with my brand new 55 inch nx series sony. Now I have not received my sony 3d blu ray player yet so I can still return it. I was wondering if you think I should wait for the oppo 93 to be wide released and purchase one or just keep the sony? I use it for only blu rays. watching maybe 3-4 dvd's and streaming netflix once in a while. I will not use it for anything else, but I was not sure if there is going to be a noticeable difference in pq in blu rays. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

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The general forum consensus is that all BR players produce very similar images from BR titles.

Whether 3D processing is different: I don't know.

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post #568 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
I've run every 3D disc through it I can find, although I have to admit there are a couple 3D titles I just refuse to watch.

In the current FW revision I can find no real issues and the player seems to be working great. I'll add one caveat: there are some real issues in the BD-3D authoring specs (vagueness and lack of clear definitions) that in some cases seem to result in discs being authored poorly. In some cases they are just not good quality in the first place. It's always important to understand that all issues with 3D playback quality are not the player's fault.

That said, the combo of the Oppo and my Panasonic VT25 plasma have thus far been impressive. I recommend the several IMAX titles for wow-factor. And if you can lay your hands on a copy of "How To Train Your Dragon 3D", do so.
I was just searching for this topic. I too have a Panasonic VT25 and currently using the BDT-300 BD player. My 93 arrives Tuesday. I will be running the two HDMI outputs for 3D due to my Denon 3808CI not having HDMI 1.4. Good to know you played alot of discs. I use to be an owner of the 83, sold it when I heard about the 93. I really like the BDT-300 but nothing compares to the overall package Oppo gives you (build quality, audio/video quality and super customer support). I also miss playing my SACD's!

Panasonic 60GT30
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post #569 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post
Adventures of Robin Hood is 4:3 black and white. The bars are matted on the source. The previews and other menus are likely done in 16:9, but the actual film is 4:3.
I presumed he was talking about the Ridley Scott Robin Hood, not the Errol Flynn version which is indeed 4:3 with built-in black pillarbox bars and nice technicolor.

The more recent version was colorized by the orange-and-teal paint factory.

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post #570 of 27084 Old 11-27-2010, 05:52 AM
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[quote=based on their record, I'm fairly confident that eventually Oppo will make good, but I no longer buy electronics on spec (for their "potential").

Edit: . . . and please don't bother to remind me that it's a pre-release product. As I said, I'll wait until it's "finished." (Some here are so defensive!)

![/QUOTE]

+1

it will be a great player like the 83 is now..till then i am waiting and my relaxing and enjoying the 83 continues
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