Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Park View Post

If I play a DSD-SACD it plays but there is no sound. If I set SACD Output to PCM it plays and sounds fine. With my BDP-83 I didn't have this problem I always had the SACD-Setting to DSD

Receiver: Pioneer SC-09TX (Susano)
TV: Pioneer Kuro PRO-151FD (ISF calibrated)
I only use single HDMI (1) connection from BDP-93 to Susano to Kuro

Are you getting this with 2-Channel and MCH sources with the Susano?
Also, try HDMI-2 output and Post your results.

OPPO BETA GROUP
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post #122 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

What's the advantage of the Oppo vs one of the other players with dual HDMI (like the Samsung 7900 for $250)and something like the Neo 550 (for $200). That combination would be $50 cheaper, for example.

I know the Oppo would probably have better upscaling of DVD, but I'm strictly Blu now. I also know it would have the advantage of one box, but I would think the Neo 550 would be able to do a bit more than the Oppo. I also have no need for a universal player, or analog audio. I realize customer support and build quality would be superior, but much like getting audio seperates, it would also be easier to swap/upgrade the Samsung or 550 if something better came out next year.

What else am I missing?

Stew4msu,

It comes down to what features are important to you. If your only criteria is blu-ray then, maybe those other options are a better fit for your spefici situation. But let us not dismiss all of Oppo's other features, because they don't fit our specific needs as this is always the case when people try to compare Oppo to other products. They dismiss everything else and bring it down to just blu-ray and/or DVD PQ.

I own 2 Oppo's (I need SACD & DVD-A support) in addition to 2 Pioneers and a Sony.


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post #123 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:37 PM
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Ok, in planning for my Oppo Arrival, been looking at the checklist and faqs, and asking questions on my receiver (Denon 4806). From the Denon AVS thread, I will plan to Send the audio via HDMI LPCM to the 4806.

I will use component to the TV due to lack of HDMI on my embarrassingly old Mitsu RPTV (1080i).

So is this proposed setup correct?
Video primary out: component
Video output resoloution : 1080i

and then connect HDMI 1 to the receiver
HDMI Audio: LPCM
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post #124 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

And this is not a limitation of just the 93 -- isn't this the same for every blu-ray player? In other words, its a blu-ray issue (not an Oppo issue). That is, with any blu-ray player, with secondary audio ON, you always lose Dolby True Hd and/or DTS Master HD when you bitstream -- right?

Secondary Audio mixing can only happen after the primary track is decoded. To then get Bitstream output after the mixing, the result has to be re-encoded on the fly back into a packed, Bitstream format. EVERYBODY does that using either traditional DD or traditional DTS because no player has the horsepower to re-encode back into a lossless Bitstream on the fly.

The 93 uses the highest bandwidth lossy format for that re-encoding -- the 1.536Mbps variant of DTS 5.1

It's a pretty rare person who will be able to tell the difference between that lossy re-encode and the original lossless bitstream.

What's more interesting to me is not what the 93 is doing on that re-encode, but rather what it is doing on the original decode that has to happen prior to the mixing. The 93 is using the full, lossless primary track rather than the "core" or "associated" compatibility, lossy version of the primary audio.

And THAT may make a difference people can hear.

If you use Secondary Audio with LPCM output, you get the full, juicy goodness of the original primary track. If you use Secondary Audio with Bitstream output, the same full, juicy goodness is what gets fed into that DTS re-encode for output, and so the result will be very close indeed to the original lossless Bitstream's bandwidth.
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post #125 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

But let us not dismiss all of Oppo's other features, because they don't fit our specific needs

Actually, that's the only way to evaluate whether or not to purchase a player (or any piece of equipment for that matter). A users specific needs. Everything else is irrelevant.

"The dream never dies, just the dreamer."

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post #126 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRRobert View Post

Ok, in planning for my Oppo Arrival, been looking at the checklist and faqs, and asking questions on my receiver (Denon 4806). From the Denon AVS thread, I will plan to Send the audio via HDMI LPCM to the 4806.

I will use component to the TV due to lack of HDMI on my embarrassingly old Mitsu RPTV (1080i).

So is this proposed setup correct?
Video primary out: component
Video output resoloution : 1080i

and then connect HDMI 1 to the receiver
HDMI Audio: LPCM

Sounds OK.

Oppo Beta Group
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post #127 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:47 PM
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By the way, another advantage of using HDMI Audio LPCM along with Secondary Audio ON is that you preserve the original channel count.

The LPCM output matches the channel count (and sampling rate and sample size) of the original primary track.

If you use HDMI Audio Bitstream along with Secondary Audio ON you will always get 5.1 DTS (at 1.536Mbps). This is true even if the original primary track was 2.0 or 7.1. If the original track was 2.0 the extra channels in the output are silent, but you may still have problems getting an AVR to apply, say, PLIIx to that to create sound for surround speakers. If the original track was 7.1 the rears are down-mixed into the sides.

(NOTE: The Secondary Audio that gets mixed in is never more than 2.0.)
--Bob

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post #128 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 02:55 PM
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I've ALWAYS left secondary audio to off as per the oppo manuals recommendation, have I been missing out on something?
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post #129 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:06 PM
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I was not trying to make a mistake about the beta testing thing. all I know is that oppo wants feedback from the player and I have done just that. I am also enjoying the new player much. for people that are still waiting to get it. its worth the wait. its certainly more ready then the cheapo 150 players out there. for 500 bucks I got my money worth. I know that many other oppo fans will most likely enjoy it very much.

Jacob
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post #130 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

I've ALWAYS left secondary audio to off as per the oppo manuals recommendation, have I been missing out on something?

With the 83, that was definitely the right thing to do.

With the 93, I now leave the player in Secondary Audio ON / HDMI Audio LPCM all the time -- only changing from those when I need to put on my Beta Tester's winged helmet and go save the world from bugs.

-------------------------------------------

NOTE: There are a couple cases where Bitstream output is preferable. If you are playing a rare, 5.1 DTS-HD MA 192KHz track, the 93 will decode that as 96KHz -- a horsepower limitation affecting just this one, specific, and quite rare format. But the 93 will Bitstream the full 192KHz to a receiver or prepro that has the horsepower to decode the full thing, such as my Anthem D2v.

And the decoder in the 93, in common with, I believe, ALL Blu-Ray players, is also a DTS "Essentials" decoder, which means SD-DVD DTS tracks with matrixed rear audio content won't get that decoded out separately. Many folks will be fine with that because they want their AVR's own surround sound processing to do that on top of the 5.1 LPCM coming from the 93, but others will prefer having the DTS bitstream sent to their AVR so it can do the job. (DTS licenses the extra decoder bits to do this to AVRs.)
--Bob

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post #131 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

I've ALWAYS left secondary audio to off as per the oppo manuals recommendation, have I been missing out on something?

If, on a BR disc with BonusView you accessed the Picture-in-Picture special feature and had no yak-track mixed into the main audio, that's what you've been missing.

If this seems like a big fuss for a minor feature, I would agree.

-Bill
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post #132 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:11 PM
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this is for neuromancer or bill mcclain...do you know if oppo has implemented CINAVIA in this player? I know the 83 doesnt have it. Im not sure anything really has it now other than sony players and the PS3.
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post #133 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:11 PM
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I did check out the blockbuster on demand. its a bit more limited then amazon on demand. I did stream some trailers. oppo sent me the link to sign up with blockbuster. I was able to get the code that I needed.

Jacob
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post #134 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

With the 83, that was definitely the right thing to do.

With the 93, I now leave the player in Secondary Audio ON / HDMI Audio LPCM all the time -- only changing from those when I need to put on my Beta Tester's winged helmet and go save the world from bugs.

-------------------------------------------

NOTE: There are a couple cases where Bitstream output is preferable. If you are playing a rare, 5.1 DTS-HD MA 192KHz track, the 93 will decode that as 96KHz -- a horsepower limitation affecting just this one, specific, and quite rare format. But the 93 will Bitstream the full 192KHz to a receiver or prepro that has the horsepower to decode the full thing, such as my Anthem D2v.

And the decoder in the 93, in common with, I believe, ALL Blu-Ray players, is also a DTS "Essentials" decoder, which means SD-DVD DTS tracks with matrixed rear audio content won't get that decoded out separately. Many folks will be fine with that because they want their AVR's own surround sound processing to do that on top of the 5.1 LPCM coming from the 93, but others will prefer having the DTS bitstream sent to their AVR so it can do the job. (DTS licenses the extra decoder bits to do this to AVRs.)
--Bob

I will be having my 93 running into a denon 3311ci receiver. Would this also be the preferable way I should set my 93 up as well?
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post #135 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

I will be having my 93 running into a denon 3311ci receiver. Would this also be the preferable way I should set my 93 up as well?

I don't know that receiver in any detail, but I can't think why not. Every receiver that accepts high bandwidth HDMI audio has to accept mutli-channel HDMI LPCM because some discs only have LPCM tracks. So unless you know of some bug in the way your Denon handles HDMI LPCM input, I'd say go for it.
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post #136 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

this is for neuromancer or bill mcclain...do you know if oppo has implemented CINAVIA in this player? I know the 83 doesnt have it. Im not sure anything really has it now other than sony players and the PS3.

I don't know. It's a mandatory part of BR licensing, isn't it?

-Bill
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post #137 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by applebonker View Post

How is the streaming video quality? I should be connecting the 93 in a few hours. I have a netflix account, but I discontinued using it. Is this something I should sign up for again to test out, or is it not even worth it? I, probably like many here, have become a bit of an HD snob. I don't have an issue spending a bit of money to pickup a blu-ray copy of a movie I've never seen. Is the streaming netflix quality through the Oppo decent enough that I would find it watchable?

As mentioned, there aren't any info bars for the Netflix streaming. Digging around the net, looks like it's 720p, compressed down to about 2-3 Mbits/sec. Subjectively to me, the Netflix streaming HD looks more like a good up-converted DVD, I don't think I'd mistake it for either broadcast HD or BR. Also, currently stereo.

Netflix has upped their format for the PS3, presumably we'll all see that eventually. But depending on your ISP account, you could run out of bandwidth pretty quickly.

eric

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post #138 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

As mentioned, there aren't any info bars for the Netflix streaming. Digging around the net, looks like it's 720p, compressed down to about 2-3 Mbits/sec. Subjectively to me, the Netflix streaming HD looks more like a good up-converted DVD, I don't think I'd mistake it for either broadcast HD or BR. Also, currently stereo.

Netflix has upped their format for the PS3, presumably we'll all see that eventually. But depending on your ISP account, you could run out of bandwidth pretty quickly.

eric

Once they go to 1080p, you'll be able to get better PQ than at 1080i for sure, at the same compression size. The 720p ive seen on the Roku is not very good. Vudu HDX can stream almost full quality (very very good looking) at 5.5 mbps for me, so there is hope.
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post #139 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rajdeep View Post

can it play hd mkv files (35gb) and m2ts files

Over ethernet connection or via USB-eSATA?
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post #140 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Once they go to 1080p, you'll be able to get better PQ than at 1080i for sure, at the same compression size. The 720p ive seen on the Roku is not very good. Vudu HDX can stream almost full quality (very very good looking) at 5.5 mbps for me, so there is hope.

Just because something is 1080p doesn't mean they haven't compressed the heck out of it.

Check out the total bit rate coming off a Blu-Ray disc, and keep in mind that what's being read off the disc is COMPRESSED audio and video. For example, the color data only occurs half as often horizontally and half as often vertically as the gray scale data.

Now, think about the bit rate something like Netflix streaming is delivering. Quite a difference.

And that difference is due to compression being cranked up to within an inch of its life. And that's OVER the compression that's already present in the data stream coming off the Blu-Ray disc.
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post #141 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 03:55 PM
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Over ethernet connection or via USB-eSATA?

It will do both, using DLNA over ethernet.

-Bill
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post #142 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Are you getting this with 2-Channel and MCH sources with the Susano?
Also, try HDMI-2 output and Post your results.

I only tried MCH so far and yes, I could try the HDMI-2 output but I don't think it makes a difference.

I also tested the secondary audio with the PS3 and you are right, does the same thing and even tells you when you change the setting.

BDP-93 is running all afternoon now I tried all kinds of disks including PAL-DVD's and the player only feels lukewarm and is doing a great job.

I had "Centurion" Blu-ray in and at the very beginning it says "Loading" like they have on many Blu-rays but the "Loading" did not go away even when the trailers where playing. It disappeared at the main menu where you start the movie. Little glitch I guess. Did not show this behavior on the PS3.

Right now Avatar Extended Collector's Edition is running, Sound and PQ is outstanding!

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post #143 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:08 PM
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Bob,

Are you saying that it is better to decode in the 93 than to bitstream and have the anthem d2v do the decoding? Aside from the secondary audio, is there any other advantage? In all the players that I tested with my d2v (panasonic, lg, pioneer), it has been superior to let the preamp do the decoding...

Christian

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post #144 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

By the way, another advantage of using HDMI Audio LPCM along with Secondary Audio ON is that you preserve the original channel count.

The LPCM output matches the channel count (and sampling rate and sample size) of the original primary track.

If you use HDMI Audio Bitstream along with Secondary Audio ON you will always get 5.1 DTS (at 1.536Mbps). This is true even if the original primary track was 2.0 or 7.1. If the original track was 2.0 the extra channels in the output are silent, but you may still have problems getting an AVR to apply, say, PLIIx to that to create sound for surround speakers. If the original track was 7.1 the rears are down-mixed into the sides.

(NOTE: The Secondary Audio that gets mixed in is never more than 2.0.)
--Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

I've ALWAYS left secondary audio to off as per the oppo manuals recommendation, have I been missing out on something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

With the 83, that was definitely the right thing to do.

With the 93, I now leave the player in Secondary Audio ON / HDMI Audio LPCM all the time -- only changing from those when I need to put on my Beta Tester's winged helmet and go save the world from bugs.

-------------------------------------------

NOTE: There are a couple cases where Bitstream output is preferable. If you are playing a rare, 5.1 DTS-HD MA 192KHz track, the 93 will decode that as 96KHz -- a horsepower limitation affecting just this one, specific, and quite rare format. But the 93 will Bitstream the full 192KHz to a receiver or prepro that has the horsepower to decode the full thing, such as my Anthem D2v.

And the decoder in the 93, in common with, I believe, ALL Blu-Ray players, is also a DTS "Essentials" decoder, which means SD-DVD DTS tracks with matrixed rear audio content won't get that decoded out separately. Many folks will be fine with that because they want their AVR's own surround sound processing to do that on top of the 5.1 LPCM coming from the 93, but others will prefer having the DTS bitstream sent to their AVR so it can do the job. (DTS licenses the extra decoder bits to do this to AVRs.)
--Bob

Like I said, I HAVE to use bitstreaming because I use the core lossy output to communicate with the D-BOX receiver. The only time I would switch over to using the secondary audio would be for special PIP commentaries or if I want to hear the funny sounds that the studios use for item selections in the menus, but I would lose D-BOX functionality.

Watchmen Directors Cut is a great example of this. While watching the movie with D-BOX, I would enable bitstreaming over HDMI. If I want to watch Director Zack Snyder appear throughout the film in Maximum Movie Mode, I'd enable secondary audio and lost D-BOX motion. But, why in the world would I need D-BOX motion during Zack Snyder's on-screen commentary?

Chet
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post #145 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

Bob,

Are you saying that it is better to decode in the 93 than to bitstream and have the anthem d2v do the decoding? Aside from the secondary audio, is there any other advantage? In all the players that I tested with my d2v (panasonic, lg, pioneer), it has been superior to let the preamp do the decoding...

I think the decoding in the 93 is just as good, with the sole exception of that one format: 5.1 DTS-HD MA 192KHz.
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post #146 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:18 PM
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Ah, all these audio encoding formats, and talk of bistreaming vs lpcm output are confusing the heck out of me lol.

My receiver is only a few months old, and supports 3d, and all of the latest codecs, I have just been using bitstream out on my 83 and letting my receiver do the decoding, but evidently now with the 93 it is better to NOT bistream and to do lpcm out to your receiver?
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post #147 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

Ah, all these audio encoding formats, and talk of bistreaming vs lpcm output are confusing the heck out of me lol.

My receiver is only a few months old, and supports 3d, and all of the latest codecs, I have just been using bitstream out on my 83 and letting my receiver do the decoding, but evidently now with the 93 it is better to NOT bistream and to do lpcm out to your receiver?

Not better. Just as good.

Unless you like to leave Secondary Audio ON, in which case LPCM *IS* better.
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post #148 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Not better. Just as good.

Unless you like to leave Secondary Audio ON, in which case LPCM *IS* better.
--Bob


gotchya. By setting it to LPCM the player is doing the decoding, not the receiver, correct?
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post #149 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Not better. Just as good.

Unless you like to leave Secondary Audio ON, in which case LPCM *IS* better.
--Bob

One could wonder, if you have say a 3-4 year old rcvr, would the newer Oppo not be better at decoding lossless audio? I mean, is their improvements over time to decoding Master and TrueHD, or not?
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post #150 of 26943 Old 11-22-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Park View Post

I only tried MCH so far and yes, I could try the HDMI-2 output but I don't think it makes a difference.

I'm trying to confirm if you are having the same issue that I am via my SC-07. There is a difference between the two where the Susano will not only accept a DSD signal, the DAC's will also process it as DSD while using "Pure Direct" mode. Please try the HDMI-2 output and report back. You should have both 2-channel & MCH while in DSD mode on HDMI-2.

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