Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Players > Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread
TommyV's Avatar TommyV 07:13 PM 11-22-2010
I would like to hear more about the Netflix capabilities in detail compared to the Xbox 360.

smurraybhm's Avatar smurraybhm 07:17 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

I'm trying to confirm if you are having the same issue that I am via my SC-07. There is a difference between the two where the Susano will not only accept a DSD signal, the DAC's will also process it as DSD while using "Pure Direct" mode. Please try the HDMI-2 output and report back. You should have both 2-channel & MCH while in DSD mode on HDMI-2.

I have the same issue with my SC-07 - had to switch from DSD to MCH get audio via SACD. With my 83 I could set it to DSD. On a positive note Netflix looks 100% better than Roku - using Bob's suggestion of 2 on NR.
caesar1's Avatar caesar1 07:17 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If you use Secondary Audio with Bitstream output, the same full, juicy goodness is what gets fed into that DTS re-encode for output, and so the result will be very close indeed to the original lossless Bitstream's bandwidth.
--Bob

I probably can't hear the difference, but I wouldn't be happy if the dolby true HD or DTS Master HD light didn't come on, on my receiver
Saturn94's Avatar Saturn94 07:18 PM 11-22-2010
I see that the 93 supports DTS MA-Essential which doesn't seem to support DTS-96/24. Does it also support DTS-HD High Resolution Audio? Does it just "downconvert" DTS-96/24 to regular DTS?

I'm confused about how the 93 handles DTS-96/24. Reading the DTS site it seems to indicate that DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, but still it's not entirely clear to me.

From the DTS site:

Quote:
This near perfect reproduction has a constant bit-rate that can range from 2.0 Mbps to 6.0 Mbps. Like DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio can provide up to 7.1 discrete channels via HDMI 1.3 or analog connections. The audio resolution can support up to 96 kHz / 24 bit and includes backward compatibility with DTS Digital Surround Core. This is ideal for consumers with legacy equipment. Higher sampling frequencies, greater bit depth and additional channels also contribute to higher-peak bit rates.

Can any of the Oppo "experts" here clarify this?
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 07:20 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

gotchya. By setting it to LPCM the player is doing the decoding, not the receiver, correct?

Correct.
--Bob
Perpendicular's Avatar Perpendicular 07:20 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I have the same issue with my SC-07 - had to switch from DSD to get audio via SACD.

Okay....thank you for confirming with your SC-07!
caesar1's Avatar caesar1 07:21 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

By the way, another advantage of using HDMI Audio LPCM along with Secondary Audio ON is that you preserve the original channel count.

The LPCM output matches the channel count (and sampling rate and sample size) of the original primary track.

If you use HDMI Audio Bitstream along with Secondary Audio ON you will always get 5.1 DTS (at 1.536Mbps). This is true even if the original primary track was 2.0 or 7.1. If the original track was 2.0 the extra channels in the output are silent, but you may still have problems getting an AVR to apply, say, PLIIx to that to create sound for surround speakers. If the original track was 7.1 the rears are down-mixed into the sides.

(NOTE: The Secondary Audio that gets mixed in is never more than 2.0.)
--Bob

Can you change to secondary audio AND LPCM output on the fly (without digging deep into setup screens). So lets say I watch a blu-ray in 7.1 DTS, and then I want to watch some commentary via secondary audio when its over -- can I (using a button press or two on the remote) -- quickly change to secondary audio and quickly and easily change from bitstream to LPCM?
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 07:22 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

One could wonder, if you have say a 3-4 year old rcvr, would the newer Oppo not be better at decoding lossless audio? I mean, is their improvements over time to decoding Master and TrueHD, or not?

Not so's you'd notice -- barring outright bugs of course.
--Bob
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 07:25 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I have the same issue with my SC-07 - had to switch from DSD to MCH get audio via SACD. With my 83 I could set it to DSD. On a positive note Netflix looks 100% better than Roku - using Bob's suggestion of 2 on NR.

QDEO ROCKS!

By the way, the Manual has a pretty good writeup of what the different levels of Noise Reduction do. I can't imagine I'd ever try to watch something that really needs NR 8 though.
--Bob
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 07:27 PM 11-22-2010
Glad to hear Nflix looks better. Im not happy with the Roku 720p PQ on Amazon Vod of Hulu +.


Question, if you set the player to source direct, what is the output for streaming and does it still bypass the Marvell?
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 07:30 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I see that the 93 supports DTS MA-Essential which doesn't seem to support DTS-96/24. Does it also support DTS-HD High Resolution Audio? Does it just "downconvert" DTS-96/24 to regular DTS?

I'm confused about how the 93 handles DTS-96/24. Reading the DTS site it seems to indicate that DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, but still it's not entirely clear to me.

From the DTS site:



Can any of the Oppo "experts" here clarify this?

The 93 both decodes and bitstreams DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA including the formats that are sampled at 96KHz with 24-bit samples. All your Blu-Ray needs are covered.

DTS 96/24 on the other hand is a strange, CD like, music format that got toyed with some years back.

You can almost certainly Bitstream DTS 96/24 to your HDMI AVR, so that's the way to play it if you happen to have some of those discs.
--Bob
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 07:34 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Can you change to secondary audio AND LPCM output on the fly (without digging deep into setup screens). So lets say I watch a blu-ray in 7.1 DTS, and then I want to watch some commentary via secondary audio when its over -- can I (using a button press or two on the remote) -- quickly change to secondary audio and quickly and easily change from bitstream to LPCM?

In the current firmware you can change between Bitstream and LPCM output on the fly but you can *NOT* change between Secondary Audio ON/OFF while a disc is playing.

The Secondary Audio stuff has bizarre connections into how BD-Java programs on a BD-Java Blu-Ray disc can override user settings. Blu-Ray certification actually tests things like that. That limits what Oppo can do while a disc is playing. (Unless they figure out a hack around that!)
--Bob
gene9p's Avatar gene9p 08:14 PM 11-22-2010
anyone try Toy Story 3 using LPCM over hdmi and find same sound problem in opening chapter that occurs in the 83 player?
ckenisell's Avatar ckenisell 08:58 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Not better. Just as good.

Unless you like to leave Secondary Audio ON, in which case LPCM *IS* better.
--Bob

Well, although I'm sure it's close, I don't know that I would go as far as saying "just as good". As soon as you take something from lossless to lossy, it's never "just as good". Especially if it's a 7.1 source that is downconverted to 5.1.

Here are your options:
  1. Turn on bitstream and let your receiver do the decoding. This also means that you can simultaneously output the core lossy Dolby Digital or DTS track via digital optical or digital coax. This is the only option I have for running D-BOX.
  2. Turn on secondary audio to LPCM and let the player do the decoding of the lossless track, add the secondary audio like PiP Commentaries and menu sounds, then convert it to LPCM. In this scenario, there is no loss of sound quality and everything remains lossless.
  3. Turn on secondary audio and let the Oppo decode any lossy track, add the secondary audio and then convert it to lossy (but high bit rate) DTS. Your receiver would then decode the high bit rate DTS. This is a LOSSY signal and I have no idea why anybody would EVER use this when they have option two above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

One could wonder, if you have say a 3-4 year old rcvr, would the newer Oppo not be better at decoding lossless audio? I mean, is their improvements over time to decoding Master and TrueHD, or not?

No need to wonder. The decoding of DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD is exactly the same whether it's done by the Oppo or by your receiver (as long as everything stays lossless, it's all the same). Here's an analogy for you: Take a .zip file and unzip it using WinZip, Windows, or 7-zip, you're still going to get the same files in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I probably can't hear the difference, but I wouldn't be happy if the dolby true HD or DTS Master HD light didn't come on, on my receiver

I used to think that too, but LPCM sound quality is the same as DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD. Now, your receiver may have different post-processing options based on the format of the original encode, but I leave all of that stuff off anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Correct.
--Bob

Yes.
Makaveli Tha Don's Avatar Makaveli Tha Don 09:11 PM 11-22-2010
Thanks for clearing that up guys. I think I got it now
cwt's Avatar cwt 10:56 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

By the way, another advantage of using HDMI Audio LPCM along with Secondary Audio ON is that you preserve the original channel count.

The LPCM output matches the channel count (and sampling rate and sample size) of the original primary track.

Thanks Bob ; I posted before on this ;it got lost in the wash so to speak ; would you say if the secondary track was 2.0 16/48 and the main 24/48 the secondary is in effect being upsampled and the bit depth increased to match ??

Does this have implications for say pcm conversion from dsd for sacds as a few have stated how this sounds improved ? And is the current lack of dsd output tied in somehow ? A long shot I know.. I wonder if this mixing capability had been there when bd was instigated whether we would even have lossless decoders in our avrs
Jacob305's Avatar Jacob305 11:21 PM 11-22-2010
bill:
I found a few items to add to your FAQ about the oppo 93.

1) certain USB drive do not work well with the oppo 93. I have a kingson 4 gb that worked fine. I had gotten an 8 gb from best buy that had problems with it. if people are having issues with bdlive/trailers that could be a problem.

2) netflix. if you are not getting a smooth picture and are using the 120/240 refresh rate. then turn off the digital motion (whatever its call on your tv)

3) here is the link for blockbuster that oppo was kind enough to send me the link. I was able to play the trailers. http://www.blockbuster.com/device/activate

I was able to get the wireless to work with netflix and bdlive. it works great.

Jacob
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 11:22 PM 11-22-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Thanks Bob ; I posted before on this ;it got lost in the wash so to speak ; would you say if the secondary track was 2.0 16/48 and the main 24/48 the secondary is in effect being upsampled and the bit depth increased to match ??

Does this have implications for say pcm conversion from dsd for sacds as a few have stated how this sounds improved ? And is the current lack of dsd output tied in somehow ? A long shot I know.. I wonder if this mixing capability had been there when bd was instigated whether we would even have lossless decoders in our avrs

It would make sense that it is upsampled, but I can't be sure just how they've implemented it. What I'm sure of is that when I test with 7.1 96kHz tracks from the AIX calibration Blu-Ray, the result remains 7.1 96KHz even with Secondary Audio ON. And I can detect no loss of quality using HDMI LPCM with Secondary Audio ON.

The SACD stuff is entirely separate.

I think you can thank DTS for decoders in AVRs. DTS-HD MA was late. Way late. And then it was discovered early Blu-Ray players didn't have enough horsepower to decode DTS-HD MA -- even the PS3, with all its horsepower, had to struggle -- and so AVRs got there first by dint of getting people to pay for honking big DSP chips.
--Bob
scrufftyguy's Avatar scrufftyguy 01:54 AM 11-23-2010
Hi,

I've got an entry level Sony blu-ray player (BDP-S360), don't suppose anyone's compared this player to the Oppo? I'm particularly interested in the analogue stereo sound and start up times. I'm guessing the Oppo is much better!
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 02:25 AM 11-23-2010
I'm curious if anyone with both the BDP-83SE and the BDP-93 has compared the SQ of the 7.1 analog outputs?

Bill
yanke_zulu's Avatar yanke_zulu 02:40 AM 11-23-2010
I know that oppo does not support iso, is it clear that it will play m2ts files? Is it possible to convert blu ray iso files to m2ts without video or audio(tru hd) loss and play this m2ts on the new oppo 93
cwt's Avatar cwt 03:39 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I think you can thank DTS for decoders in AVRs. DTS-HD MA was late. Way late. And then it was discovered early Blu-Ray players didn't have enough horsepower to decode DTS-HD MA -- even the PS3, with all its horsepower, had to struggle -- and so AVRs got there first by dint of getting people to pay for honking big DSP chips.
--Bob

Its intrigueing that this secondary upsampling [or however they do it] would be done on the mediatek chip specifically Bob . Reminds me of my old integra dtr 10.5 that used its 24/192 dacs to upsample 16/48 rbcd's to 96 khz though a different case.

Happy to know my honking big cirrus logic chips can handle bitstreamed 24/192 multichannel ; silver lining if more than a few discs are ever released and the 83/93 bitstreams them anyway I remember how much dolby tried to push decoding in the player ; certainly gone full circle with this new 93 wrinkle
JimP 05:26 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The Speaker Distance calculations are exactly the same as the BDP-8x line of players. It is a compensation of speakers which are closer to the listening position and the main speakers. The player does not support speakers which are further from the listening position and the main speakers.


I know you don't design these players, but I have to say that it doesn't make any sense to have a subwoofer delay that allows a shorter distance as most subwoofers are at least the same distance as the front mains and once you correctly adjust the subwoofer timing, you have a subwoofer distance that's electronically further away.

Just my thinking, but why even bother offering an analog out feature if you can't correctly set the subwoofer distance?
dtrell's Avatar dtrell 05:27 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanke_zulu View Post

I know that oppo does not support iso, is it clear that it will play m2ts files? Is it possible to convert blu ray iso files to m2ts without video or audio(tru hd) loss and play this m2ts on the new oppo 93

the bdp-93 will play m2ts files in an AVCHD file format (and possibly stand-alone), however if the player has CINAVIA detection (i emailed oppo this morning as to whether it does or not and it may affect my returning the player and keeping my 83) then it is a moot point because eventually you wont be able to hear the audio on newer and forward blurays. your older blurays will still play fine ripped to an HD, but if it has CINAVIA, then dont expect to be able to do that in the future as almost all commercial blurays will have this protection eventually.
rwestley's Avatar rwestley 05:53 AM 11-23-2010
As others have stated Netflex looks much much better with the 93 than the Roku or anything else I have tried. The noise reduction on 2 is very good but I would suggest that you might want to try other settings on your system and compare the results. This is where as Bob said "the Qudeo Rocks."

BDP 93 Beta Tester.
DigVid's Avatar DigVid 06:18 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

the bdp-93 will play m2ts files in an AVCHD file format (and possibly stand-alone), however if the player has CINAVIA detection (i emailed oppo this morning as to whether it does or not and it may affect my returning the player and keeping my 83) then it is a moot point because eventually you wont be able to hear the audio on newer and forward blurays. your older blurays will still play fine ripped to an HD, but if it has CINAVIA, then dont expect to be able to do that in the future as almost all commercial blurays will have this protection eventually.

Yes, by all means, please keep us informed if the BDP-93 has CINAVIA. I suspect the newest Denon and Marantz BD players may have been delayed, partly, to utilize CINAVIA in their models.
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 06:28 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckenisell View Post

Well, although I'm sure it's close, I don't know that I would go as far as saying "just as good". As soon as you take something from lossless to lossy, it's never "just as good". Especially if it's a 7.1 source that is downconverted to 5.1.

Here are your options:
  1. Turn on bitstream and let your receiver do the decoding. This also means that you can simultaneously output the core lossy Dolby Digital or DTS track via digital optical or digital coax. This is the only option I have for running D-BOX.
  2. Turn on secondary audio to LPCM and let the player do the decoding of the lossless track, add the secondary audio like PiP Commentaries and menu sounds, then convert it to LPCM. In this scenario, there is no loss of sound quality and everything remains lossless.
  3. Turn on secondary audio and let the Oppo decode any lossy track, add the secondary audio and then convert it to lossy (but high bit rate) DTS. Your receiver would then decode the high bit rate DTS. This is a LOSSY signal and I have no idea why anybody would EVER use this when they have option two above.



No need to wonder. The decoding of DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD is exactly the same whether it's done by the Oppo or by your receiver (as long as everything stays lossless, it's all the same). Here's an analogy for you: Take a .zip file and unzip it using WinZip, Windows, or 7-zip, you're still going to get the same files in the end.



I used to think that too, but LPCM sound quality is the same as DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD. Now, your receiver may have different post-processing options based on the format of the original encode, but I leave all of that stuff off anyway.



Yes.


Never heard it put that way, but it explains it well.
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 06:37 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Just because something is 1080p doesn't mean they haven't compressed the heck out of it.

Check out the total bit rate coming off a Blu-Ray disc, and keep in mind that what's being read off the disc is COMPRESSED audio and video. For example, the color data only occurs half as often horizontally and half as often vertically as the gray scale data.

Now, think about the bit rate something like Netflix streaming is delivering. Quite a difference.

And that difference is due to compression being cranked up to within an inch of its life. And that's OVER the compression that's already present in the data stream coming off the Blu-Ray disc.
--Bob

My point was, if you compress the same movie, to make the same file size, compression of 1080p is more efficient here and will yield better PQ, in the same file size, than 1080i (same movie).

With the new Roku's having 1080p capability, and all these players making streaming deals, I think services like Amazon, Nflix, and BB will all be 1080p before it's over. Another reason I purchased this 93, I think that Oppo will be very diligent in supporting streaming, and offering a great product. I already feel better knowing that the Nflix PQ is better than the Roku, which would leave me to believe that the Amazon would be, if that support comes. If Oppo gathers more streaming services, I'll prob sell the Roku.
rdgrimes's Avatar rdgrimes 06:43 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid View Post

Yes, by all means, please keep us informed if the BDP-93 has CINAVIA. I suspect the newest Denon and Marantz BD players may have been delayed, partly, to utilize CINAVIA in their models.

Despite internet rumor and hysteria, it's not yet been proven that Cinavia will actually impact very many people. There are too many assumptions here: First that Cinavia actually works and second that very many BD releases will choose to pay the substantial licensing fees. At this point there's not enough verified information to base a player purchase on the existence of Cinavia support. It's a certainty that all BD players must have the protections but that doesn't equal a "problem".
dtrell's Avatar dtrell 06:54 AM 11-23-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Despite internet rumor and hysteria, it's not yet been proven that Cinavia will actually impact very many people. There are too many assumptions here: First that Cinavia actually works and second that very many BD releases will choose to pay the substantial licensing fees. At this point there's not enough verified information to base a player purchase on the existence of Cinavia support. It's a certainty that all BD players must have the protections but that doesn't equal a "problem".

its not a certainty that all current players released this year have the protection...there are many players released this year that do not have it but its starting to really trickle in. it is a certainty that ALL hardware players WILL have it eventually when released, but not at this moment in time, and almost all blurays will have it as paranoid insanely rich already content providers will implement it. i am hoping that oppo has resisted it or found some other way not to implement it in this player. i know back in july they said they dont support it, but their arms may have been twisted on this one. i will hopefully find out today and report back what they say about the 93.

and there are many many people out there that like backing their blurays up onto hard drives and playing them back by one means or another so their original discs will not get damaged. and this will affect them. in fact, in europe it is perfectlty legal for a person to make a backup copy of their legally purchased blurays for their own use.
Tags: Blu Ray Players , Oppo Bdp 93 Blu Ray Player
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