Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 610 - AVS Forum
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post #18271 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cadillac1960 View Post

And second, do you know of anyone out there who is configuring their own Firmware files for this player? I know that some other devices I have, people have talked about custom (non proprietary) firmwares, and maybe someone has one for the BDP-93 that could retain the ISO play and still have the newer features. I understand that this is probably a "void warrany" scenario, but would be interested if someone did have a custom firmware I could review. If not, I may look into doing some work in that department on my own (I have been a programmer for 20 years and write in many languages but never tried to modify a firmware).

I'm sure lots of people would just love a custom firmware that kept ISO playback (the firmware files are there to play with, so I guess it's possible to compare the last ISO firmware to the current no-ISO beta and see what was removed) but, as htwaits says, it's probably anything but easy:-)
I mentioned once before that there were custom firmwares available for my old Oppo 971, and that I 'hacked' it myself to use a custom background (via a tutorial on these here forums), but that was a long time ago. The 93's firmware is bound to be both complicated and protected (Bob confirmed all firmware updates need a digital signature).
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post #18272 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

After inserting your Blu-ray then selecting MUSIC, select the Blu-ray disc. Now press the LEFT arrow key and select "All Music".

The player will now list all the music found on the disc.

Load a song then go to "Now Playing" or just let it take you there naturally (10 seconds after the last command is issued).

Press the BLUE button to select Random/Shuffle. The player will now randomly playback the files across all folders.

NOTE: This trick will NOT work on a commercial Blu-ray disc which happens to be all or mostly music -- either a BDMV or an AVCHD masquerading as a Blu-ray. The player will not find/list the individual music files from such a disc. Selecting the disc from Home Menu > Music will simply start the disc playing normally.
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post #18273 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post


Press the BLUE button to select Random/Shuffle. The player will now randomly playback the files across all folders.

Does anyone know what the practical difference between random and shuffle is? I was switching between them the other day but couldn't tell any difference in behaviour between the two playback modes...?
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post #18274 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-RIP View Post


Does anyone know what the practical difference between random and shuffle is? I was switching between them the other day but couldn't tell any difference in behaviour between the two playback modes...?

Random may replay some tracks again before all tracks are played once. Shuffle plays each track once without repeats until all are played, but in a random order.
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post #18275 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 06:20 AM
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Ah, that makes sense, cheers Bob!
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post #18276 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SeriousHorse View Post

I'm sure lots of people would just love a custom firmware that kept ISO playback (the firmware files are there to play with, so I guess it's possible to compare the last ISO firmware to the current no-ISO beta and see what was removed) but, as htwaits says, it's probably anything but easy:-)
I mentioned once before that there were custom firmwares available for my old Oppo 971, and that I 'hacked' it myself to use a custom background (via a tutorial on these here forums), but that was a long time ago. The 93's firmware is bound to be both complicated and protected (Bob confirmed all firmware updates need a digital signature).

I've heard of other customized firmware for older Oppo's, for instance to enable playback of SACD ISO's burned to DVD-R discs, which some of the older players aren't capable of. However, the difference being those older Oppo players aren't continually being updated due to BD issues. Besides being more complicated and protected, I would think keeping a customized firmware continually updated would be impractical.
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post #18277 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If you are using any EQ or bass management in the AVR, then HDMI will give the best results. If you are not, why?

Roger,

If what Amir Majidimehr says is true (and if I understand him correctly), HDMI introduces much more jitter to the audio stream than S/PDIF connections. For example, as much as 41 times in the Yamaha RX-VS3900 AVR. I was just reading his article in Issue 161 of the WSR on Digital Audio.

Ben
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post #18278 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Roger,

If what Amir Majidimehr says is true (and if I understand him correctly), HDMI introduces much more jitter to the audio stream than S/PDIF connections. For example, as much as 41 times in the Yamaha RX-VS3900 AVR. I was just reading his article in Issue 161 of the WSR on Digital Audio.

Ben

In their bench tests, Secrets of Home Theater found no jitter at all on the HDMI from the 93 and the 95.

ETA: Hmmm. Actually I think I may have confused their report with that of one of the other bench testing outfits. I can't recall for sure at the moment which outfit published that result. If you search this thread you'll find it, or perhaps someone else here has it in mind.
--Bob

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post #18279 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Roger,

If what Amir Majidimehr says is true (and if I understand him correctly), HDMI introduces much more jitter to the audio stream than S/PDIF connections. For example, as much as 41 times in the Yamaha RX-VS3900 AVR. I was just reading his article in Issue 161 of the WSR on Digital Audio.

If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around...

IOW, if you cannot hear jitter, how does it matter how it measures?
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post #18280 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 01:56 PM
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For those who has Problems with playing bdmv structur with the Oppo.

A User from German HiFi-Forum said, that he solved the Problem with the fragment (i Hope its the correct Word in englisch) of his USB Drive.
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post #18281 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Roger,

If what Amir Majidimehr says is true (and if I understand him correctly), HDMI introduces much more jitter to the audio stream than S/PDIF connections. For example, as much as 41 times in the Yamaha RX-VS3900 AVR. I was just reading his article in Issue 161 of the WSR on Digital Audio.

Ben

If the DACs and analog output quality on your BDP-93 are better than your AVR, then you'd rather do bass management in the Oppo and leave the AVR to full analog mode.

HDMI out from BDP-93 to my TV, which outputs spdif to my DAC, sounds worse than a low jitter source to my DAC (audiophilleo). I presume there is jitter in play causing this rather large difference in quality. I've got the Nuforce Extreme Edition of the BDP-93 to avoid the additional jitter inherent in the transmission medium and leave the full decoding local to the one box. This also alleviates the need for me to buy an HDMI receiver and I can continue using my 7.1 channel full analog bypass mode getting good sound quality out of the Nuforce Extreme board.
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post #18282 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


Now it is normal for displays to do their own Dithering when set to their "best" configuration. In which case also doing Dithering in the Oppo is not needed (and should be turned off). But some displays WON'T do that. For example my Display's highest quality configuration is setting it to think the video is coming from a computer. As it turns out, when set that way, my Display does not Dither itself. And so I get significantly better results with Dithering turned ON.

Thank you for mentioning this! I've been playing with color space combinations trying to remove some grayscale banding (Oppo BDP-93 connected to a Duo outputting a PC resolution). Based on what you mentioned above, I set the Oppo to dither and the grayscale turned as smooth as butter. Turns out my display does not dither as well when fed it's native PC resolution (768p).

Not that I blame the Oppo (thankfully it allows me to correct this), but it's kind of a pain now that I can't use Source Direct and now have to manually switch between 1080p and 480i within the Oppo.

Anyway, thanks for bringing that up, Bob! Saved me from a nagging problem.
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post #18283 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by honda steffen View Post

For those who has Problems with playing bdmv structur with the Oppo.

A User from German HiFi-Forum said, that he solved the Problem with the fragment (i Hope its the correct Word in englisch) of his USB Drive.

You probably mean "defragment" and ,yes, it helps.

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
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post #18284 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

In their bench tests, Secrets of Home Theater found no jitter at all on the HDMI from the 93 and the 95.

ETA: Hmmm. Actually I think I may have confused their report with that of one of the other bench testing outfits. I can't recall for sure at the moment which outfit published that result. If you search this thread you'll find it, or perhaps someone else here has it in mind.
--Bob

I do not see how that is possible, there needs to be sync between the source device and AVR, and I know that Denon and Pioneer introduced clock sync when using their products. I went back and forth on this years ago with Oppo so I do not see how this is possible unless I missed something in the HDMI 1.4 spec.

Finally, all this concern with jitter is pointless considering how room acoustics will override the best components. I would focus on the room tuning first before worrying about HDMI jitter.
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post #18285 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

In their bench tests, Secrets of Home Theater found no jitter at all on the HDMI from the 93 and the 95.

ETA: Hmmm. Actually I think I may have confused their report with that of one of the other bench testing outfits. I can't recall for sure at the moment which outfit published that result. If you search this thread you'll find it, or perhaps someone else here has it in mind.
--Bob

Bob-
You may have been thinking of this from the Audioholics Bench Test for the 93 and 95:

"We also ran Bit Error Rate (BER) tests on both players using Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD test signals and both players produced a 0% BER which means both players delivered audio via HDMI 100% error free. Early HDMI products (ver 1.0 to 1.2) reportedly suffered from jitter related issues but HDMI ver 1.3 and above has completely eliminated jitter related issues thus ensuring bit for bit exact signal transfer from the player to the A/V receiver or processor. "

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/t...5-on-the-bench


Not jitter related, but in the same report, there's also this:

"We measured distortion on both players HDMI outputs using a 0dBFS 96kHz / 24 bit Dolby TrueHD test signal. Both players measured identical producing distortion #s near the noise floor of our test equipment."
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post #18286 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillac1960 View Post

do you know of anyone out there who is configuring their own Firmware files for this player? I know that some other devices I have, people have talked about custom (non proprietary) firmwares ... If not, I may look into doing some work in that department on my own (I have been a programmer for 20 years and write in many languages but never tried to modify a firmware).

As others have mentioned, the firmware is protected by a digital signature. That means if you modify the firmware, the Oppo would not load it unless a new signature is generated using the secret encryption key that only Oppo has.

Its probably possible, but nobody would be able to do it without a lot of effort and special equipment (ie, you'd have to open up the oppo, possibly de-solder some parts, and program it directly).

Also, not to mention, parts of the firmware are likely encrypted to protect their secret AACS key.
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post #18287 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

In their bench tests, Secrets of Home Theater found no jitter at all on the HDMI from the 93 and the 95.

ETA: Hmmm. Actually I think I may have confused their report with that of one of the other bench testing outfits. I can't recall for sure at the moment which outfit published that result. If you search this thread you'll find it, or perhaps someone else here has it in mind.
--Bob

Probably something else since nothing ever measures zero jitter. The effects of jitter can be heard, it just depends on how good the rest of your equipment is in resolving it, and also how good your DAC stage is at suppressing it.
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post #18288 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 07:26 PM
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Hey All;

Thanks again to everyone who keeps this going. Hopefully I will learn enough that I can be of some help to others in the future.

So just got my QNAP TS-459 Pro II up and running, and started the Twonky media server. The BDP-93 recognizes the server, but is showing the files as empty.

Here is what I have tried:

1. Restarted all devices to ensure changes were being recognized
2. Added "shared" folder to Twonky that contain movies that I want to stream
3. Verified connectivity to QNAP via my computer and I can see all shared folders and files

Any thoughts here? I don't know what else to try and change, and am hoping that I did not make the wrong choice here in believing that I would be able to play my video collection from this NAS.

Cheers~
W

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LG 47LM6400
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post #18289 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Make sure you re-index your files before connecting to the server. The player likely can't find the files as the file index is empty to the player.
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post #18290 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 08:02 PM
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Thanks Neuromancer. Sorry to not fully understand, but do I do this (re-index files) in Twonky or on the QNAP files setup? And do you know where I would find that setting?

Very much appreciate you time and knowledge on this topic.

Cheers~
W

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Oppo BDP-93
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post #18291 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 09:57 PM
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Found it. Rescan Content Directories in Twonky media server "Maintenance".

Thanks again.

Cheers!
W

Denon AVR-2312ci
LG 47LM6400
Oppo BDP-93
HTPC w/ Asus MB, 8GB RAM, Kingston SSD drive, Radeon 5400 video card
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post #18292 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 10:01 PM
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Been operating my Denon AVR-2112CI/BDP-93 set-up for a week or so now, very nice sounding set-up. Playing an assortment of CD's and SACD's, trying to figure out best sound configuration? I have HDMI and 2ch analog OUT's (Oppo FL/FR) connected to Denon. Quite a few adjustments between the two components.

HDMI surround is very nice using "FLAT" Audyssey mode.

I'm getting confused when selecting "Pure Direct" on Denon while playing 5.1 SACD's, I'm getting surround playback. How can this be? Does'nt the Denon default to 2ch OUT's in PURE DIRECT mode?

BDP-93 projects nice sound stage.
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post #18293 of 26905 Old 02-13-2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I'm getting confused when selecting "Pure Direct" on Denon while playing 5.1 SACD's, I'm getting surround playback. How can this be? Does'nt the Denon default to 2ch OUT's in PURE DIRECT mode?

You're hearing the 5.1 source purely and directly.
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post #18294 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 01:30 AM
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I have an oppo bdp-93 in sweden, i have the DIY region modd installed.
I was watching A Christmas carol with Jim Carrey on blu-ray the and the player turns off at 1h 11 min.
Has anyone had trouble with that movie i also tried a second copy.
I have the new public beta firmwe installed, but have tried the last 2 official
firmwares with the same result.
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post #18295 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by joefixit View Post

I have an oppo bdp-93 in sweden, i have the DIY region modd installed.
I was watching A Christmas carol with Jim Carrey on blu-ray the and the player turns off at 1h 11 min.
Has anyone had trouble with that movie i also tried a second copy.
I have the new public beta firmwe installed, but have tried the last 2 official
firmwares with the same result.

You are saying the player literally powers down? Not just simply goes to Stop mode?

There's nothing a disc can do, even a faulty disc, to force the player to power down, so something else is going on and the disc is just triggering it somehow.

First turn HDMI CEC OFF in Setup to make sure the power down command is not coming from some other piece of equipment in your theater. HDMI CEC is the protocol which lets devices control each other via the HDMI connection.

If that doesn't do it, then I suggest you re-install the firmware and do a reset of the player:

1) Download a fresh copy of the current "Public Beta" firmware for your player. Unzip it on your computer and put the resulting UPG folder on a USB memory stick. Do the Eject operation in your computer (so that it finishes writing to the USB stick) and remove it from the computer.

2) Power up the Oppo and jot down your personal settings. Remove any disc in the tray.

3) In Setup, Erase Persistent Storage and then Reset Factory Defaults. When the Easy Setup Wizard finishes, power down the player.

4) Disconnect anything connected to the rear USB or eSata ports, including the Wifi stick if you are using that. Put the USB stick with the firmware in the front USB port.

5) Power up the player. It will find the firmware on the USB stick and offer to do the install. Let it do so. Note that more than one piece of firmware may be installed. When it is all done it will power down the player automatically.

6) Remove the USB stick.

7) Power up the player. Erase Persistent Storage again. Reset Factory Defaults again. When the Easy Setup Wizard finishes, power down the player.

8) Pull the wall power cord for about 10 seconds.

9) Re-attach whatever you normally use on the front and rear ports.

10) Power up the player. Re-enter your personal settings (with HDMI CEC OFF).

11) Power down the player one last time. (Settings are save during the power down cycle.)

The "extra steps" above are intended to maximize the odds that nothing can possibly survive from the prior firmware install to cause issues with the new install. It is a "belt and suspenders" way to install firmware.

Try that disc again. If you have the same problem, contact Oppo tech support as your player may need hardware service.

Since you are only having problems with that one disc, they may ask you to loan them the disc first so they can verify there really is nothing on the disc that is somehow crashing the player. But as I said, even a faulty disc should not be able to force the player to power down. If the disc is simply dropping into Stop mode unexpectedly then that is most likely an unrecoverable read error on the disc, which could mean a faulty batch of discs (it happens). If you have the unexpected Stop problem on more than one disc, then that could mean the laser lens in your optical drive needs to be cleaned.
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post #18296 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Bob-
You may have been thinking of this from the Audioholics Bench Test for the 93 and 95:

"We also ran Bit Error Rate (BER) tests on both players using Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD test signals and both players produced a 0% BER which means both players delivered audio via HDMI 100% error free. Early HDMI products (ver 1.0 to 1.2) reportedly suffered from jitter related issues but HDMI ver 1.3 and above has completely eliminated jitter related issues thus ensuring bit for bit exact signal transfer from the player to the A/V receiver or processor. "

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/t...5-on-the-bench


Not jitter related, but in the same report, there's also this:

"We measured distortion on both players HDMI outputs using a 0dBFS 96kHz / 24 bit Dolby TrueHD test signal. Both players measured identical producing distortion #s near the noise floor of our test equipment."

Yes, that's the bench test I had in mind. Thanks for finding and posting the correct one.

My apologies to anyone who wasted time trying to find it on the Secrets of Home Theater site.
--Bob

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post #18297 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcwang View Post

Probably something else since nothing ever measures zero jitter. The effects of jitter can be heard, it just depends on how good the rest of your equipment is in resolving it, and also how good your DAC stage is at suppressing it.

Well I disagree. Although I know what Amir measured was correct when he measured it, I do not believe jitter is a problem of practical importance, even for audiophiles, on modern players connected via HDMI to modern AVRs of decent design.

I've long felt the fear on this was overblown. Decent AVR designs have to buffer and re-clock the input data. This is true, for example, if the AVR offers the option of adding audio sync delay on that HDMI audio input. Since HDMI audio is embedded in HDMI video, and since HDMI video has a built in re-sync on every raster line, the amount of clock drift possible in clocking the audio out of the input signal is inherently limited to what can happen in the short amount of time that passes transmitting a single raster line of video. That's just too short a time frame to be of consequence for the type of clock circuits we are talking about.

Now of course if there is a bug in the player or in the AVR then all bets are off. But barring bugs, audio jitter on HDMI is, in my opinion just not an issue with, as I said, the newest players and decent AVRs and pre-pros.

The Audioholics report cited above is saying that using a bench test which *DID* find problems in older players, they are *NOT* finding problems in the Oppo 93 and 95. This is good news.

From a practical point of view, I'm not hearing any jitter using HDMI audio from the 93 into my Anthem Statement D2v, which surprises me not at all because I know what the D2v does to buffer and reclock that input data.
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post #18298 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:32 AM
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I was wondering if someone can help me, I was playing the DVD version of fight club and the picture did not look good. Am I supposed to put the oppo on a certain setting? I was under the impression the oppo up converts really good. My setup sharp 70 inch 732u, onkyo hts 7300 and the oppo, one hdmi to tv the other to avr.

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post #18299 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bcwang View Post

If the DACs and analog output quality on your BDP-93 are better than your AVR, then you'd rather do bass management in the Oppo and leave the AVR to full analog mode.

HDMI out from BDP-93 to my TV, which outputs spdif to my DAC, sounds worse than a low jitter source to my DAC (audiophilleo). I presume there is jitter in play causing this rather large difference in quality. I've got the Nuforce Extreme Edition of the BDP-93 to avoid the additional jitter inherent in the transmission medium and leave the full decoding local to the one box. This also alleviates the need for me to buy an HDMI receiver and I can continue using my 7.1 channel full analog bypass mode getting good sound quality out of the Nuforce Extreme board.

I think it far more likely you have discovered a problem in how your TV takes HDMI input and turns it into S/PDIF output. I would not expect a TV's designers to have put a lot of effort into doing that right. Keep in mind, for example, that the TV can not output high bit rate HDMI audio input on that S/PDIF digital audio output due to lack of copy protection. And it is unlikely the TV is buffering and reclocking the HDMI input.
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post #18300 of 26905 Old 02-14-2012, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bxbigpipi View Post

I was wondering if someone can help me, I was playing the DVD version of fight club and the picture did not look good. Am I supposed to put the oppo on a certain setting? I was under the impression the oppo up converts really good. My setup sharp 70 inch 732u, onkyo hts 7300 and the oppo, one hdmi to tv the other to avr.

What sort of problems are you seeing? Can you describe them?

SD content, even when upscaled, is more sensitive to the correctness of the video calibration in the TV. There's no margin for error in SD content. Blu-ray is more forgiving in that regard (problems in TV calibration are not as readily seen when playing HD content). So what have you done to verify your TV is set up correctly?
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