Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 683 - AVS Forum
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post #20461 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Before anyone asks, Blockbuster cut off service to all the manufacturers -- effective March 31. They made the unilateral decision to go exclusive with Samsung.

Frankly, it's no great loss.

But it does point out that even the major manufacturers get stuff like this only at the whim of the 3rd party service providers.
--Bob

Bob, you seem to be one of the many go-to guys around here, so I'd like to direct an earlier question to you. Please read below...

Question: Would I benefit by enabling the QTC? If I applied a deep color mode to HDMI 1, will that give me something I'd be happy with?
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post #20462 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:00 PM
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^ Uh, can I buy a vowel? What's a "QTC" and where/how would you be enabling it?
--Bob


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post #20463 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:04 PM
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I'm sorry, I thought you were familiar with the 93 settings. The QTC is the Qdeo True Color setting. It's applied to HDMI1 when a deep color mode is enabled. I can go into the settings and enable that deep color mode on HDMI1, but I wanted to see if it's even necessary. I thought maybe you had some first hand insight into this.
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post #20464 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

I'm sorry, I thought you were familiar with the 93 settings.


Calibration Resources:

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post #20465 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by edh63 View Post

i'm sorry, i thought you were familiar with the 93 settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


roflmao
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post #20466 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


Is there a problem with that statement? It wasn't meant to be rude or condescending, so I hope you're not implying that I'm trying to come across that way. The written word has no inflection, so please don't instigate anything here. It's simply a statement without a motive.
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post #20467 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

I'm sorry, I thought you were familiar with the 93 settings. The QTC is the Qdeo True Color setting. It's applied to HDMI1 when a deep color mode is enabled. I can go into the settings and enable that deep color mode on HDMI1, but I wanted to see if it's even necessary. I thought maybe you had some first hand insight into this.

The underlying settings of the QDEO processing are not accessible to the users. You can, as you say, choose to activate the 30 or 36 bit "Deep Color" data formats (assuming the next device in your video chain actually accepts those as input).

I've previously posted on this that the choice here depends mostly on nuances of how the rest of your video chain is implemented -- i.e., what's happening in your AVR and Display.

There is no simple answer here as to whether (or when) turning on Deep Color will produce better looking results. In some cases you will be fighting bugs in the other devices. In other case you will be fighting simple corner cutting (e.g., a device that accepts 30 or 36 bit input but simply trims that back down to 24 bit as the first step on input). It's a tough call for any owner because what features you have turned on in the AVR or Display, and the choices you make on data format (YCbCr vs. RGB for example, or 1080p/24 vs 1080p/60) can make a difference EVEN THOUGH they should NOT make a difference. There's also the issue of whether or not your video chain works better if the output of the OPPO is "Dithered".

And the problem is that typical video calibration charts don't reveal the type of stuff that's going on here -- whether that be bugs or implementation quirks, or the potential good results of passing on rounding data in the extra bits. The charts are just not designed to make such stuff visible.

I've posted a suggestion that one way to make this choice yourself is to use a scenes or set of scenes that makes these differences more evident.

The one I've personally found most useful is in "Ratatouille", Blu-ray, Chapter 10. Here's my post regarding that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19915778

IMPORTANT: You must have your basic levels set properly to have a chance of seeing the subtle differences between these video data format choices: Whites (Contrast), Blacks (Brightness), shape of the Black to White response curve (Gamma Correction), colors (Color and Tint) and vertical edge enhancement (Sharpness). Be aware that some AVRs and displays have peculiarities requiring different settings for these depending on the format of the video input. This should NOT be true, but it sometimes is, so you need to determine the correct levels for each video format (combo of Color Space and Deep Color) you want to try to see if any changes are needed for any format. You can check these level settings with a good calibration disc such as Spears & Munsil, Blu-ray. Ideally, all such level adjustments should be made using the controls in your display. Leave the Picture Adjustment settings in the OPPO at their default (0) values.

ETA: If you DON'T see an advantage with 30 or 36 bit Deep Color enabled in a test like this one with Ratatouille, then it is probably wisest to stick with Deep Color OFF or OFF (Dithered). Those use 24 bits per pixel which is, thus, a lower bandwidth signal than 30 or 36 bit. Which means you are less likely to have occasional HDMI handshake problems.
--Bob


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post #20468 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The underlying settings of the QDEO processing are not accessible to the users. You can, as you say, choose to activate the 30 or 36 bit "Deep Color" data formats (assuming the next device in your video chain actually accepts those as input).

I've previously posted on this that the choice here depends mostly on nuances of how the rest of your video chain is implemented -- i.e., what's happening in your AVR and Display.

There is no simple answer here as to whether (or when) turning on Deep Color will produce better looking results. In some cases you will be fighting bugs in the other devices. In other case you will be fighting simple corner cutting (e.g., a device that accepts 30 or 36 bit input but simply trims that back down to 24 bit as the first step on input). It's a tough call for any owner because what features you have turned on in the AVR or Display, and the choices you make on data format (YCbCr vs. RGB for example, or 1080p/24 vs 1080p/60) can make a difference EVEN THOUGH they should NOT make a difference. There's also the issue of whether or not your video chain works better if the output of the OPPO is "Dithered".

And the problem is that typical video calibration charts don't reveal the type of stuff that's going on here -- whether that be bugs or implementation quirks, or the potential good results of passing on rounding data in the extra bits. The charts are just not designed to make such stuff visible.

I've posted a suggestion that one way to make this choice yourself is to use a scenes or set of scenes that makes these differences more evident.

The one I've personally found most useful is in "Ratatouille", Blu-ray, Chapter 10. Here's my post regarding that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19915778

IMPORTANT: You must have your basic levels set properly to have a chance of seeing the subtle differences between these video data format choices: Whites (Contrast), Blacks (Brightness), shape of the Black to White response curve (Gamma Correction), colors (Color and Tint) and vertical edge enhancement (Sharpness). Be aware that some AVRs and displays have peculiarities requiring different settings for these depending on the format of the video input. This should NOT be true, but it sometimes is, so you need to determine the correct levels for each video format (combo of Color Space and Deep Color) you want to try to see if any changes are needed for any format. You can check these level settings with a good calibration disc such as Spears & Munsil, Blu-ray. Ideally, all such level adjustments should be made using the controls in your display. Leave the Picture Adjustment settings in the OPPO at their default (0) values.
--Bob

Ok, thanks Bob. I'll just leave that setting alone on its default value out of the box. If I ever get it calibrated I'll approach that then.

Thanks again for your response. Loving this player right now. Very responsive, and one thing that I noticed was very quick to set-up, was the internet connect. Much easier than the Samsung models.
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post #20469 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:35 PM
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^ Yep! By the way, the single most important factor in video quality will be the calibration of your display. You may want to consider getting a professional in with light sensor tools to "do it right".

But at the very least you should get familiar with a good calibration disc such as Spears & Munsil so that you can check there isn't some silly setup error in your configuration which is messing up the video.

Be aware that it is almost a certainty that the out-of-box factory default settings in your display are flat out wrong for best quality viewing. Typically they will be too bright and contrasty, with too blue of a tone to whites (too high a Color Temperature) and with loss of black details, and with too low of a "Gamma curve" (which adds "false pop" to the video), and with vertical edge enhancement (Sharpness) cranked up too high. And then on top of this they will also "push reds" to keep those settings from making people look too much like corpses. This is all done quite deliberately, by all the display manufacturers, to make their displays stand out more in a wall of displays viewed under garish, store lighting conditions. The so-called "torch mode" settings.
--Bob


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post #20470 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

Is there a problem with that statement? It wasn't meant to be rude or condescending, so I hope you're not implying that I'm trying to come across that way. The written word has no inflection, so please don't instigate anything here. It's simply a statement without a motive.

Funny EDH63 ... folks laughed with you at the statement you made that Bob wasn't familiar with the 93 settings. My God, this fella knows all things Oppo with audio and video to boot, far more than you and i would ever care to know!!! Simply look at his post count(). When i first saw your post on the QTC issue, i like most here, drew a blank and was puzzled as to what it could mean. I was afraid to ask, lest i come off as silly Not so much now since even Bob himself didn't know the term.

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post #20471 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Yep! By the way, the single most important factor in video quality will be the calibration of your display. You may want to consider getting a professional in with light sensor tools to "do it right".

But at the very least you should get familiar with a good calibration disc such as Spears & Munsil so that you can check there isn't some silly setup error in your configuration which is messing up the video.

Be aware that it is almost a certainty that the out-of-box factory default settings in your display are flat out wrong for best quality viewing. Typically they will be too bright and contrasty, with too blue of a tone to whites (too high a Color Temperature) and with loss of black details, and with too low of a "Gamma curve" (which adds "false pop" to the video), and with vertical edge enhancement (Sharpness) cranked up too high. And then on top of this they will also "push reds" to keep those settings from making people look too much like corpses. This is all done quite deliberately, by all the display manufacturers, to make their displays stand out more in a wall of displays viewed under garish, store lighting conditions. The so-called "torch mode" settings.
--Bob

Had my 82" Mitsu calibrated by a pro and it made a huge difference. Well worth the $$$ since you do invest the bucks in equipment.

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So is it me or does the Youtube logo remain perpetually on the screen? I tried it before the update to no avail, and now after the update it seemed to also be stuck (but I didn't wait for more than 30 seconds)? Apologies if this has already been covered.
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post #20473 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Re the YouTube "Leanback" service:

Fun with 3rd party services.

It seems Google changed the interface between the server and the YouTube app. Apparently, unexpectedly.

As such, it's not a "bug" from Google's point of view. That is, Google are not going to back off the change to what their server is now sending out. And the current YouTube app on the OPPO can't handle that. The app for the OPPO will need to be adjusted to match. That's in process.

As with all the other 3rd party Internet service apps, the code for the YouTube app comes from the service provider -- in this case Google. I've no idea why they changed how their server works before getting an updated app in place.

I can't give any ETA on the updated app (which will have to come as an OPPO firmware update). But it's a fair assumption I think that it will be in the next Public Beta firmware release.
--Bob

Just found this on the prior page...ok, should be fixed as of today's firmware update. I'll have to give it another go.
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post #20474 of 27027 Old 04-23-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

It wasn't meant to be rude or condescending, so I hope you're not implying that I'm trying to come across that way.

If I had thought you were trying to be rude or condescending to Bob I would have followed AVS guidelines.

Calibration Resources:

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post #20475 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 01:14 AM
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So is it me or does the Youtube logo remain perpetually on the screen? I tried it before the update to no avail, and now after the update it seemed to also be stuck (but I didn't wait for more than 30 seconds)? Apologies if this has already been covered.

I'm having the same problem with YouTube, and Netflix isn't working for me either -- when I try activating the device for Netflix, it says the activation code has expired. This is after I installed the latest firmware, but I haven't used either service in several months, so I don't know if the problems existed in earlier firmware versions.
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post #20476 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 04:49 AM
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EDH63-
No harm done. As you stated, it's sometimes hard to infer what is intended with the written word. It actually came across to me that you were making a little joke that I thought was funny, and htwaits and I were laughing along.
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Just updated. FW 0413 now. Lost the Block Buster and Setup is back on the icon page. You Tube works, tho a tad slow loading up but I am wireless, and has an interesting new layout/format. Thankyou Oppo!!! My daughter should be most pleased now.
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post #20478 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Yep! By the way, the single most important factor in video quality will be the calibration of your display. You may want to consider getting a professional in with light sensor tools to "do it right".

But at the very least you should get familiar with a good calibration disc such as Spears & Munsil so that you can check there isn't some silly setup error in your configuration which is messing up the video.

Be aware that it is almost a certainty that the out-of-box factory default settings in your display are flat out wrong for best quality viewing. Typically they will be too bright and contrasty, with too blue of a tone to whites (too high a Color Temperature) and with loss of black details, and with too low of a "Gamma curve" (which adds "false pop" to the video), and with vertical edge enhancement (Sharpness) cranked up too high. And then on top of this they will also "push reds" to keep those settings from making people look too much like corpses. This is all done quite deliberately, by all the display manufacturers, to make their displays stand out more in a wall of displays viewed under garish, store lighting conditions. The so-called "torch mode" settings.
--Bob

I did order that calibration disk, just haven't used it yet. However, I had my Plasma calibrated already when I purchased it (about 2 years old now). I've always had my plasmas pro calibrated because it makes for a much more realistic reproduction of color.

So, If I never calibrate the OPPO with the Spears & Munsil disk, It still looks fantastic. I'm not having any color issues or crushing of any kind. All OPPO settings in the "Picture" catagory are at their default settings "0". I've watched a couple of movies already, Blus, and they look fantastic. By calibrating the OPPO would mean then I would have to recalibrate the whole Plasma... yes? I spent $350.00 calibrating the Plasma, so I'm not real keen on recalibrating and throwing that money out the window. It seems that what I have right now looks good, with the calibration I have, so if I don't go into the OPPO and make a bunch of color, contrast and brightness adjustments, I'm guessing I should be ok. I just hate to think that I need to recalibrate because I buy a Blu ray player. Doesn't mean I won't.

What do you think?
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post #20479 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:22 AM
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Funny EDH63 ... folks laughed with you at the statement you made that Bob wasn't familiar with the 93 settings. My God, this fella knows all things Oppo with audio and video to boot, far more than you and i would ever care to know!!! Simply look at his post count(). When i first saw your post on the QTC issue, i like most here, drew a blank and was puzzled as to what it could mean. I was afraid to ask, lest i come off as silly Not so much now since even Bob himself didn't know the term.

Well, I can't say it didn't surprise me just a little when Bob responded the way he did because I thought the same thing. Nevertheless, I had to throw that out there because I don't know Bob personally and by no means was it derogatory. I mean come on, everyone throws around acronyms and abbreviations around here like they were throwing beads at boobs at Mardi Gras. My little effort at it would've surely gotten lost in the mix of all the rest. (HUMOR!)

It's all good...
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post #20480 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:29 AM
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If I had thought you were trying to be rude or condescending to Bob I would have followed AVS guidelines.

Well, Bob should feel honored to have an internet friend like you that would take a virtual bullet for him. Seriously though, It's all good and the internet can be difficult to interpret through the written word sometimes. I try to be as neutral as I can when posting as not to come across with some sort of motive or emotional agenda. I get what happens on the internet with people, so it just takes some time to get to know people's characters on the internet.

Trust me, I'm 48 and I don't care to start flame wars and virtual pillow fights. Unless I'm arguing with 4 very pretty ladies. Then please let's pillow fight, and for the love of Pete, post some pictures!
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post #20481 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

EDH63-
No harm done. As you stated, it's sometimes hard to infer what is intended with the written word. It actually came across to me that you were making a little joke that I thought was funny, and htwaits and I were laughing along.

You know, I didn't even take that into consideration... that it was funny. With so many people, and not necessarily here, acting like ass hats on the internet, you never know how one will be construed. Again, as I've stated already above, time will allow everyone to know me better.

Sometimes, when your surfing the internet, do you feel like you have a meat-belt around your waist in an ocean of sharks?
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post #20482 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hjones View Post

For anyone purchasing an Oppo 93 from Amazon in the last 30 days or so: what version of the firmware was on your unit? I have one coming tomorrow and wonder what are the chances of it coming with the March 2012 firmware. Looks like Oppo direct is shipping with the latest one. Thanks.

I received a BDP-93 (my second one) yesterday, which I bought new on Amazon. It had the December 2011 firmware, as I'd hoped.

I'd updated the firmware on my first Oppo and did not see any improvement in the things I've used it for, so I will not update this new Oppo, unless a future update has something really significant for me.
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post #20483 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quick question regarding FW update installations....... I noticed on Oppo's update page that the instructions for installing FW via the internet differ slightly than using a USB thumbdrive. Going the USB route, Oppo recommends that you do a factory reset but updating via the internet they don't mention this as part of the proceedure.

Does anyone know why that is? It sure makes it easier installing via the internet not having to re-apply all your settings.

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post #20484 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 07:03 AM
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Another question for the more technically minded of you, of which I know there are many (and many more who seem to think they are anyway ;-), whilst I am blissfully ignorant regarding some of the more technical settings in this player.

I'm using a Syba CL-SWI31026 3-in-1 HDMI Switch to enable the use of this player and my Sony Mega Blu-ray changer in the one remaining HDMI input to my home theatre receiver and had been having problems playing back the more recent 3D discs (e.g. Hugo) on the Oppo - the picture would flash or periodically jump and the sound would cut out, so I played around with the settings....today's firmware upgrade to BDP9x-66-0413 prompted me to get busy and do it. (Early 3D ones seemed fine for some reason).

I seem to have cured the problem by turning off 1080p24 output in Video Setup and under HDMI made Deep Color (HDMI1) Off (Dithered).

My home theatre receiver upgrades everything to 1080p anyway, (not sure about that 24 bit part but I believe it may do that too, whatever it means).

I haven't noticed any deterioration in the visual or audio experience at all, should I have? At least it now works. If you see the link to that switch it is supposed to support 24 and 36 bit video, so am curious why these adjustments worked. Was it a case of overkill before?

Edit: I should add that these problems didn't occur when the Oppo was plugged directly into my receiver. Hence my overkill remark, maybe there was some over-processing going on.

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post #20485 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 09:52 AM
 
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24p is a measurement of frames per second, bit depth is something else entirely.
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post #20486 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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Not to interrupt anyone just throughing in my .02. I have a 93 this is my fourth oppo product. I have had many BD players since the first Samsung. Including the Dennon 3800bdci and the Elite 09. I currently own the panny 210 only because I am an amazon prime member and I use it for streaming from amazon only. If the oppo did I woudl get rid of it. To me despite some of the complaints I have read the Oppo is by far the best without a doubt out there. Build PQ, and Sq. The service is without compare in todays market. I do not participate much in the threads but Really love the wealth of informatiion coming from all the expert active members. Thanks.

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post #20487 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Be sure to check out the updated YouTube Leanback interface, as the earlier interface was quite limited.

Be aware typing a sting of a characters in search pauses while YouTube tries to match content.

Does it support HD content?
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post #20488 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post

Does it support HD content?

I thought I'd chime in here on this. I noticed it does not support HD content. It has the option to choose "All, or "HD", but it will not allow you to choose HD when you try to.
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post #20489 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

All OPPO settings in the "Picture" catagory are at their default settings "0".

In almost all circumstances, that's exactly what the OPPO settings should be. Unless there is a situation where calibration doesn't work in the display, the OPPO's settings should be left at default settings.

If you come to feel that recalibration due to drift is needed then it would probably be best to do it in the display. Our Kuro was recalibrated after 5k hours, but we could have waited longer than that.

Calibration Resources:

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post #20490 of 27027 Old 04-24-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

I thought I'd chime in here on this. I noticed it does not support HD content. It has the option to choose "All, or "HD", but it will not allow you to choose HD when you try to.

I have seen HD stuff on the new youtube thing. its is possible to get HD from you tube.

Jacob
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