Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 06:00 AM
 
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Would you be able to actually get a BR license, to make a player, without supporting it? Oppo may not have an option at the end of the day.
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post #182 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Would you be able to actually get a BR license, to make a player, without supporting it? Oppo may not have an option at the end of the day.

thats what i am saying, their arms may have been twisted and they may have done it kicking and screaming...but it is also possible that it isnt activated since this is still a "pre-release" player. then if they get the NTFS/AVCHD issue fixed on beta firmware prior to official release, i may keep the player and not update further. like i said, there are players that came out this year that dont have it.
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post #183 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 06:27 AM
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It'd be great if the region free mod chips could deactivate Cinavia if implemented into the 93. That would solve that problem.

Chet
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post #184 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Despite internet rumor and hysteria, it's not yet been proven that Cinavia will actually impact very many people. There are too many assumptions here: First that Cinavia actually works and second that very many BD releases will choose to pay the substantial licensing fees. At this point there's not enough verified information to base a player purchase on the existence of Cinavia support. It's a certainty that all BD players must have the protections but that doesn't equal a "problem".

You're joking, right? Cinavia has been well studied for many months. Forget "rumor and hysteria". There are proven facts. Fact number 1...if a player implements it, it works. Extremely well. Even from an analog recording of a Cinavia protected source. Fact number 2...there is no way to disable/remove it as of yet. And finally, fact number 3...many many more titles are now starting to support it since the initial batch seemed to work and not cause an uproar with lost audio quality. If the 93 implements it, people who play backups WILL be affected until someone figures out how to remove it. That's not rumor or hysteria. It's a simple fact.
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post #185 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

You're joking, right? Cinavia has been well studied for many months. Forget "rumor and hysteria". There are proven facts. Fact number 1...if a player implements it, it works. Extremely well. Even from an analog recording of a Cinavia protected source. Fact number 2...there is no way to disable/remove it as of yet. And finally, fact number 3...many many more titles are now starting to support it since the initial batch seemed to work and not cause an uproar with lost audio quality. If the 93 implements it, people who play backups WILL be affected until someone figures out how to remove it. That's not rumor or hysteria. It's a simple fact.

Slysoft seems to be saying that they would have to re-encode the audio in order to remove Cinavia, which means at least a slight loss of quality and that it's something that wouldn't be included as part of AnyDVD HD (more likely something they would include as part of CloneBD).

Stupid studios... I realize they have a right to protect their content, but they have yet to come up with a scheme that can't be broken. All they really accomplish is making it more difficult for the honest customer to enjoy their content.

That said, it is what it is in regards to the 93 having Cinavia (or not). If it's there, people will need to decide if that's a deal breaker or not and make their purchase decision accordingly. It's obviously not a "feature" that can be removed at this point.
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post #186 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The 93 both decodes and bitstreams DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA including the formats that are sampled at 96KHz with 24-bit samples. All your Blu-Ray needs are covered.

DTS 96/24 on the other hand is a strange, CD like, music format that got toyed with some years back.

You can almost certainly Bitstream DTS 96/24 to your HDMI AVR, so that's the way to play it if you happen to have some of those discs.
--Bob

So are DTS-HD HR and DTS 96/24 completely different things and DTS-HD HR will not support DTS 96/24 unaltered?

So what does the 93 do with a DTS-96/24 CD? What does it do with a DTS-96/24 DVD?

BTW, my Anthem AVM20 does not support DTS 96/24. It just uses the core DTS Surround at 1.5mps.

So as not to get too far off topic, I'll sent you a PM about what my current players (980H and Pio 320) seem to do and why this is confusing for me.

Thanks.

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post #187 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I'm sure the "early-release" has many folks hesitant given possible firmware issues etc. Mainly folks who have not owned or dealt with OPPO previously.
JMHO

I understand people's trepidation, but I was one of the 1st 50 to get the BDP-83 as a part of their EAP and at the time it was more complete than any other blu-ray transport that I owned and had owned that was supposedly ready for public release.


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post #188 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 09:19 AM
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I can actually say the same thing about the 93 willie.
its more ready then most of the players that are out now.

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post #189 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:32 AM
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Hello folks,

Should I use 10-bit dithered, 10-bit, or 12-bit color in my BDP-93? I'm feeding a Samsung UNC46C8000 through an Onkyo TX-NR3008.

My Reon-VX video processor (inside the Onkyo TX-NR3008) has a "10-bit internal data path" and 4:4:4 YCbCr color support. In Through mode do you think it'll leave a 12-bit color signal fully in-tact before it reaches the display, or will the Reon-VX internally truncate it to 10-bit and then pad it to 12-bit on the way out? I suppose it's possible that the "10-bit internal data path" they're referring to when discussing the Reon-VX refers to something other than its color processing but my intuition tells me that it would necessarily impact its color precision, limiting it to 10-bit.

Also, I would guess that enabling 10-bit dithered (in the Oppo BDP-93) color enables Qdeo True Color processing, and that using a non-dithered setting does not use Qdeo True Color? Or is the deep color setting (and whether it's dithered or not) independent of Qdeo True Color?

Thank you folks if you can shed any light on these questions!

-John
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post #190 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:38 AM
 
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If it's 10bit, 4:4:4, then thats 30 bit. Since it is 10 bit, I'd just send out source direct, which would be 4:2:2 10 bit (20 bit), and run with that.

Not sure on the dithered vs not.
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post #191 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:42 AM
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Dithering should be helpful at smoothing gradients. I want to be sure to do it in the right place though -- in the Marvell Qdeo chip using Qdeo True Color and not in the MediaTek decoder.

I thought blu-ray is 8-bit 4:2:0?
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post #192 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:47 AM
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I'm having an issue with the player momentarily not displaying the proper color space upon startup. It last for about 5-10 seconds before it kicks in & displays properly. For example my Kuro shows a greenish screen then around 5 secs later it displays the proper colors. I'm choosing 4:4:4 in both the Kuro & Oppo. Any thoughts or suggestions?

My setup is Kuro 6020, & running passthrough on a Yamaha RX-V1900 receiver.

P.S. This only occurs if I use forced settings of 4:4:4 on the TV. It does not happen if the Kuro is set to auto color space. It's nothing major & I'm sure it can probably be update but I'll pass it along to Oppo.
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post #193 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:48 AM
 
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You got me there. I'm pretty up on the BR output to my pre/pro, but not quite sure ont he Onkyo. Someone in the Onkyo owner's thread, or Onkyo support may be able to help.

But, it reads to me as it's 10bit 4:4:4, so I don't see more than inputing 10 bit. My DVDO Duo converts everything input, to 4:2:2 10 bit, so that's what I let my BR player do. The Duo then outputs 4:4:4 36 bit to the display. Luckily, I got this input directly from ABT.
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post #194 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

I'm having an issue with the player momentarily not displaying the proper color space upon startup. It last for about 5-10 seconds before it kicks in & displays properly. For example my Kuro shows a greenish screen then around 5 secs later it displays the proper colors. I'm choosing 4:4:4 in both the Kuro & Oppo. Any thoughts or suggestions?

My setup is Kuro 6020, & running passthrough on a Yamaha RX-V1900 receiver.

P.S. This only occurs if I use forced settings of 4:4:4 on the TV. It does not happen if the Kuro is set to auto color space. It's nothing major & I'm sure it can probably be update but I'll pass it along to Oppo.

IMO, why not leave the Kuro on Auto? It's going to pick the best one anyways, right?
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post #195 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:54 AM
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tkbryant I would leave your kuro on auto and just change settings on the 93. It's usually one or the other that you would change only.
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post #196 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs4000 View Post

I thought blu-ray is 8-bit 4:2:0?

It is, but HDMI doesn't carry 4:2:0, so even at Source Direct the decoder chip has to do chroma upsampling to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 or even conversion to RGB.

The deep color processing is undergoing beta firmware changes, so I advise patience.

-Bill
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post #197 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Slysoft seems to be saying that they would have to re-encode the audio in order to remove Cinavia, which means at least a slight loss of quality and that it's something that wouldn't be included as part of AnyDVD HD (more likely something they would include as part of CloneBD).

Stupid studios... I realize they have a right to protect their content, but they have yet to come up with a scheme that can't be broken. All they really accomplish is making it more difficult for the honest customer to enjoy their content.

That said, it is what it is in regards to the 93 having Cinavia (or not). If it's there, people will need to decide if that's a deal breaker or not and make their purchase decision accordingly. It's obviously not a "feature" that can be removed at this point.

Well I just heard back from oppo via email. According to them, as far as they know or has been communicated to them (I assume from their Chinese mfr) the BDP-93 does NOT incorporate CINAVIA..this is GREAT news.
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post #198 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

IMO, why not leave the Kuro on Auto? It's going to pick the best one anyways, right?

More than likely yes. It's just that my 83 has never had that issue with the forced 4:4:4 settings with my Kuro. It's not a big deal but nevertheless I just wanted to chime in. Other than that I have found no other "quirks" yet.
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post #199 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

More than likely yes. It's just that my 83 has never had that issue with the forced 4:4:4 settings with my Kuro. It's not a big deal but nevertheless I just wanted to chime in. Other than that I have found no other "quirks" yet.

Mainly because of the 2 HDMI outputs, the -93 will have some handshaking oddness. If you use both outputs, there are 2 completely different handshaking processes going on. Oppo is slowly tuning this up, but extreme care must be taken to avoid breaking things in the handshakes. Expect to see improved boot/load times and smoother handshakes as the player matures.

But as others have stated, leave your display set to "auto" and the player to discrete.
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post #200 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

I'm having an issue with the player momentarily not displaying the proper color space upon startup. It last for about 5-10 seconds before it kicks in & displays properly.

Initial handshake is usually done in RGB. Additional handshakes once the player full turns on will result in the proper output of the selected color space, or a more correct color space as a result of HDMI handshakes.
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post #201 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

According to them, as far as they know or has been communicated to them (I assume from their Chinese mfr)...

"Communicated to them" would likely mean from the engineering group to the CRS; from MediaTek (MTK) to OPPO engineers.

So as far as OPPO CSRs are concerned, there is no support for Cinavia unless they are told/proven otherwise.
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post #202 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

Well I just heard back from oppo via email. According to them, as far as they know or has been communicated to them (I assume from their Chinese mfr) the BDP-93 does NOT incorporate CINAVIA..this is GREAT news.

This isn't that hard to test; googling for Cinavia gives you a couple filenames of backups known to contain the watermark. Someone with a 93 needs to just grab those and see if they play.
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post #203 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stimby View Post

This isn't that hard to test; googling for Cinavia gives you a couple filenames of backups known to contain the watermark. Someone with a 93 needs to just grab those and see if they play.

One of those is "The Losers" which I have a backup copy of on my hard drive. I will burn it to a BD-RE and try it when I receive my player.
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post #204 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

"Communicated to them" would likely mean from the engineering group to the CRS; from MediaTek (MTK) to OPPO engineers.

So as far as OPPO CSRs are concerned, there is no support for Cinavia unless they are told/proven otherwise.

Neuromancer, I would hope that before a CSR would answer that question, they would either know for sure themselves, or ask an engineer prior to answering my question...would they not? I emailed service@oppodigital.com...I assumed the questions on their would be answered by techs or engineers (people familiar with the design of the product), not by CSR phone answerers..no?
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post #205 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 11:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

One of those is "The Losers" which I have a backup copy of on my hard drive. I will burn it to a BD-RE and try it when I receive my player.


Excellent!
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post #206 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 12:03 PM
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The new disc tray is silky smooth & quiet!
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post #207 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

Neuromancer, I would hope that before a CSR would answer that question, they would either know for sure themselves, or ask an engineer prior to answering my question...would they not?

Again, revisit my statement. If MTK does not tell the engineers something, then the engineers can't give this information to the CSRs; if the engineers are not sure of an implementation (maybe it is buggy, can only be implemented for internal uses, is on their "to do list", or is something that needs to be considered later) they may not communicate this down to the CSR. The CSR's roll is to be an interface between the customer and the development group. Being ignorant of some facts is beneficial to ensure that incorrect or outright false information is not discussed outside of internal channels.

That, and there are some things that you, as a customer, never need to know. Sorta like how if you call/E-Mail OPPO they will not disclose what other streaming partners they are courting, or how many BDP-93 units they have sold.

Quote:
I assumed the questions on their would be answered by techs or engineers (people familiar with the design of the product), not by CSR phone answerers..no?

You do realize that CSR just means Customer Service Representative? This applies to all degrees of face to face support, which includes E-Mail. You are not getting a special CSR because you are going through E-Mail. In fact, you may be talking to over the phone and E-Mailing the same individual.
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post #208 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 12:21 PM
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OK, problem FIXED! I emailed Oppo about my color space issue and they got back to me within 15 minutes. That's just fantastic customer service!!! They advised me to double check that I was using HDMI 1. Sure enough I was using 2 as my output. Changed it to 1 and voila!! The display is correct upon startup now. I can't believe I missed that, I guess in my excitement to hook it up I didn't look to check.
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post #209 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 12:22 PM
 
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Awesome. The more I hear about their CS, the more I am happy I bought one.
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post #210 of 27084 Old 11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Again, revisit my statement. If MTK does not tell the engineers something, then the engineers can't give this information to the CSRs; if the engineers are not sure of an implementation (maybe it is buggy, can only be implemented for internal uses, is on their "to do list", or is something that needs to be considered later) they may not communicate this down to the CSR. The CSR's roll is to be an interface between the customer and the development group. Being ignorant of some facts is beneficial to ensure that incorrect or outright false information is not discussed outside of internal channels.

That, and there are some things that you, as a customer, never need to know. Sorta like how if you call/E-Mail OPPO they will not disclose what other streaming partners they are courting, or how many BDP-93 units they have sold.



You do realize that CSR just means Customer Service Representative? This applies to all degrees of face to face support, which includes E-Mail. You are not getting a special CSR because you are going through E-Mail. In fact, you may be talking to over the phone and E-Mailing the same individual.

Neuromancer, I fully understand that its a CSR, but a CSR also should not give false information. If someone is asking a simple question that is going to help them decide whether or not they are going to buy their product, and the "CSR" isnt sure of the answer, I assume that Oppo is a small place, and the engineers may be an office or two away from the customer service room...so if they dont know the answer they can just walk over and ask an engineer before answering the email, couldnt they? I also assume that when they say "we are not aware..." they are not talking about the CSR group, they are talking about Oppo as a company, because if a CSR isnt aware of something, thats why they make engineers that they can ask the question before answering the customer. I would rather they take their time answering an important quesiton on a buying decision and sending a reply when they know something, even if it takes them a couple days to find out for sure. If the CSR needs to have an engineer confirm it with MediaTek prior to answering, then Id rather have them do that and be accurate.

As far as Cinavia, it is no secret what it is and there are no secret negotiations going on that are hush hush...its either in the player or it isnt and the CSR should confirm that with an engineer prior to answering, and I am taking them at the their word.. its already well known that the 83 doesnt have it and the the PS3 does, so whether the 93 has it or not is not a secret of national security proportions. I am actually hoping that someone on the internet confirms it prior to them shipping my unit, because I am sure there are people on other forums or even this forum that have the unit in hand and can check it.
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