Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 901 - AVS Forum
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post #27001 of 27027 Old 09-08-2014, 08:30 PM
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^ Yep.
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post #27002 of 27027 Old 09-08-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Would that mean going from analog to digital for room correction and than back to analog?
Yeah. His point was that some AVR's don't have the option to digitize the multi-channel analog inputs - for many it's a pass through only feature.
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post #27003 of 27027 Old 09-09-2014, 03:23 AM
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Are the speaker settings only used for analogue outputs, or are they also used for decoding to LPCM?

The reason I ask is that I recently obtained a spare Oppo 93 which has the latest firmware and I changed all the speakers to a distance of 0 feet, because I use my AVR for room correction, and am noticing an audio sync issue with HDMI LPCM. Because of this and the fact that my ISO Oppo 93 doesn't have a sync issue and has the speakers left at default settings, plus the speaker settings do control downmixing and number of speakers, I was thinking that maybe the distance does have an effect.
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post #27004 of 27027 Old 09-09-2014, 06:16 AM
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Speaker settings are only used for the analogs.


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post #27005 of 27027 Old 09-09-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Would that mean going from analog to digital for room correction and than back to analog?
Yes.
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post #27006 of 27027 Old 09-09-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
Speaker settings are only used for the analogs.
I'm assuming you mean only the distance settings, because the other speaker settings (such as number of speakers and downmixing) definitely affect LPCM via HDMI: I can see the number of input speakers change on my AVR display as I change the speaker setup in the Oppo.

Also, it seems reasonable to me that since the only difference between LPCM and analogue is a DAC, that LPCM is digitally passed through the speaker settings before being split off to HDMI and the DAC for analogue. Otherwise you have to pass LPCM through only some of the speaker settings (ie number of speakers) and that can get confusing.
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post #27007 of 27027 Old 09-09-2014, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post
I'm assuming you mean only the distance settings, because the other speaker settings (such as number of speakers and downmixing) definitely affect LPCM via HDMI: I can see the number of input speakers change on my AVR display as I change the speaker setup in the Oppo.

Also, it seems reasonable to me that since the only difference between LPCM and analogue is a DAC, that LPCM is digitally passed through the speaker settings before being split off to HDMI and the DAC for analogue. Otherwise you have to pass LPCM through only some of the speaker settings (ie number of speakers) and that can get confusing.
Huh? What firmware are you using?

I just checked the 93 with current firmware to be sure nothing weird had been introduced, and I'm not seeing this at all.

I have HDMI 1 output of the 93 connected to HDMI Back Input of a 105D. That means I can use the Info display on the 105D to see what's coming in on HDMI from the 93.

I have the 93 set to output HDMI Audio LPCM.

I checked using the AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, 7.1 LPCM and 7.1 DTS-HD MA Channel ID tracks.

Regardless of how the 93 is set for Analog Speaker Configuration Down-mix or speaker enabling (i.e., speaker LARGE vs. OFF), the 93 *ALWAYS* sends HDMI LPCM 7.1 for these two tracks, and all the channel content is indeed received by the 105D in the proper place.
--Bob


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post #27008 of 27027 Old 09-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Updating

Got a 93 from a friend
The region free uses the
Dimmer dimmer dimmer mute and1,2,3

Current fw bdp9x-74-0908
Can i update the fw with no worries?


I see i dont have iso playback option

And i Do have issues with universal titles

Thanks
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post #27009 of 27027 Old 09-13-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam22 View Post
Got a 93 from a friend
The region free uses the
Dimmer dimmer dimmer mute and1,2,3

Current fw bdp9x-74-0908
Can i update the fw with no worries?


I see i dont have iso playback option

And i Do have issues with universal titles

Thanks
Mine came with similar region free device when I bought it. Haven't had any problems with firmware updates. Not as much as I'd like to, but I do watch pretty much every region B title using my 93.

(No idea regarding issues with universal titles...)
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post #27010 of 27027 Old 09-13-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Correct. No Cinavia detection in the 9x players.

If your current, old firmware is from the brief period where ISO playback was supported, you WILL lose that. Firmware notes can be found in the first post of this thread.
--Bob
Thanks, I'm, 79-0910 10/18/2013.

Thanks, 2therock

 


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post #27011 of 27027 Old 09-14-2014, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post
Thanks, I'm, 79-0910 10/18/2013.
Currently at
BDP9x-80-0513

I had to download it to my computer and install via USB, as I did not receive a firmware update notification nor was it available to install directly to the 93 prior to my installing it manually.

Edit: Posted about it at the time on 21 June.

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post #27012 of 27027 Old 09-14-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Yes, you really DO use an SPL meter for checking Sub level. Do not skip this step. Use a calibration disc, such as the LPCM tracks from AIX Audio Calibration Blu-ray to do this. Set the SPL Meter to Slow response and "C" weighting.

If you are using the ISO-capable firmware, then you have the Speaker Distance Compensation bug, and will need to use the Workaround distance settings recently discussed.
--Bob
So this is probably really obvious, and I'm just dense, but ... Oppo drops the subwoofer channel by -15db. I need to raise that channel by 15 db, either on the sub or in the receiver or with a combination of the two, correct?

Then I calibrate all speakers, including the subwoofer, to a dbl of say, 75? Doesn't that remove the extra 15db I added to the subwoofer in the first place? Or is the sub calibrated to, say 90db?
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post #27013 of 27027 Old 09-14-2014, 11:16 AM
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^ Calibrate everything to 75dB SPL, including the Sub. Once you have achieved that, then the proper Sub boost -- whatever is needed according to your Speaker Configuration and what your AVR might itself be providing -- must already be in place.
--Bob


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post #27014 of 27027 Old 09-14-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
So this is probably really obvious, and I'm just dense, but ... Oppo drops the subwoofer channel by -15db. I need to raise that channel by 15 db, either on the sub or in the receiver or with a combination of the two, correct?

Then I calibrate all speakers, including the subwoofer, to a dbl of say, 75? Doesn't that remove the extra 15db I added to the subwoofer in the first place? Or is the sub calibrated to, say 90db?
Paragraph 1 is correct. Paragraph 2, sub needs to match level of other speakers, so 75 is your goal, regardless of how it is reached.

I use a combo of receiver and sub to get there, though in reality I haven't used a meter to check it out yet.
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post #27015 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Calibrate everything to 75dB SPL, including the Sub. Once you have achieved that, then the proper Sub boost -- whatever is needed according to your Speaker Configuration and what your AVR might itself be providing -- must already be in place.
--Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Paragraph 1 is correct. Paragraph 2, sub needs to match level of other speakers, so 75 is your goal, regardless of how it is reached.

I use a combo of receiver and sub to get there, though in reality I haven't used a meter to check it out yet.
I guess what confuses me here is ... as long as you are planning to calibrate all your speakers to the same dbl ... what difference does it make if Oppo drops the dbl for the subwoofer by 10 or 15 or whatever? It should be no different from a bdp that doesn't drop the sub level, because it all gets trimmed to the same uniform 75 dbl or whatever in the end, anyway--right? So you wouldn't be trying to add +15 dbl to the subwoofer ... you'd just be trying to get ALL of your speakers to hit the same uniform volume, right?

Or do you want the source for the subwoofer to be +15 no matter where you end up setting the trim?
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post #27016 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
I guess what confuses me here is ... as long as you are planning to calibrate all your speakers to the same dbl ... what difference does it make if Oppo drops the dbl for the subwoofer by 10 or 15 or whatever? It should be no different from a bdp that doesn't drop the sub level, because it all gets trimmed to the same uniform 75 dbl or whatever in the end, anyway--right? So you wouldn't be trying to add +15 dbl to the subwoofer ... you'd just be trying to get ALL of your speakers to hit the same uniform volume, right?

Or do you want the source for the subwoofer to be +15 no matter where you end up setting the trim?
If you take the simple step of using a calibration disc and SPL meter to adjust all the speakers and Sub to the same level (typically 75dB SPL), then you can ignore the details of how that has been achieved.

But many people are curious about what's involved. The LFE channel exists as a place to record LOUD bass. (Each main speaker channel can carry bass as low as you care to go in frequency, but putting the loudest bass in there would clip the inputs of your pre-amp.) To achieve this, LFE is recorded -10dB down compared to the main speaker channels, and the Sub output of the OPPO preserves that. To allow for Crossover processing, which steers bass from the main speaker channels to the Sub output where it is mixed with the LFE channel, an additional -5dB attenuation is applied -- again to make sure the Sub output signal won't clip the inputs of your pre-amp.

Thus a boost needs to be applied to that Sub signal to get it matched in level with the main speaker channels, and the right place to do that is external to the player. (If you raise the Sub trim in the OPPO you defeat the purpose of the attenuation, which is to keep from clipping the input that Sub output is connected to.)

The easiest place to do this is by raising the volume knob on the Sub itself.

If you pass the Sub signal through an AVR you will likely find your AVR already boosts the signal by +10dB by default. Some AVRs even let you set the amount of Sub boost (0, 5, 10, or 15dB, typically). Of course the amount of boost applied by the AVR does NOT need to be applied by raising the volume knob on the Sub.

So the details are a bit complicated, but you don't have to WORRY about any of that.

Use a calibration disc (such as the LPCM test tracks on AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, available from OPPO) and a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter set to "Slow" response and "C" weighting -- everyone uses the inexpensive meter sold by Radio Shack -- and calibrate everything including the Sub to the same level. And voila! You are done. Whatever was needed in the way of Sub boost has now been applied.

When calibrating, hold the meter pointing straight up to the ceiling. Hold it at arm's length, at seated ear height, at your main listening position. If you have high seat backs or your seating is flush to a wall, raise the tip of the meter a few inches or shift it forward a foot closer to the screen to get it away from those blocking/reflective surfaces. All speakers, and the Sub, are measured the same way.

Set all volume trims in the OPPO to 0dB. Raise main Volume (e.g., in your AVR) until the Left Front speaker test tone produces 75dB SPL. Using that same main Volume setting, adjust the volume trims for all the other speakers -- Left Front will of course remain at 0dB. When you get to the Sub, leave it's volume trim at 0dB as well, and make the adjustment using the volume knob on the Sub itself. Note the main Volume setting you have used for this, as that is now your "calibrated" Volume setting should you ever care about setting playback to that level.

If you find you have any large, positive volume trims assigned in the OPPO, you may want to take an additional step, which is to lower ALL the volume trims (including Left Front and the Sub) by the same amount so that the largest trim is 0dB. This again is to provide a margin of safety so that you don't clip the inputs of your pre-amp in the loudest passages. Most pre-amps will have enough headroom (ability to accept higher input voltages) that this won't be necessary. But if you notice "harshness" in loud passages, the odds are you are clipping the inputs of the pre-amp, and you can confirm that by lowering the output volume of the OPPO to see if it goes away. Simply raise main Volume in your pre-amp to compensate and get back to the listening level you want.

ETA: If you have a normal sized listening room that has not been extensively treated to trim bass, you will likely find that it produces a modest bass boost known as "Room Gain". This is actually a desirable room response characteristic -- part of what leaves you feeling you are in a good listening room rather than an anechoic chamber. To keep it simple, all this means is that you MAY prefer to set the Sub level a few dB hotter than the main speaker channels -- say +2 to +4dB hotter. That's because movie mixers assume a small amount of Room Gain will be present in home theaters. If you listen primarily to music, aim towards the low end of that. Trust your ears, but MEASURE what you are doing with a calibration disc so that you can stay grounded in reality -- close to "calibrated" levels. Bass response is a complicated topic. If your room has not been bass treated, and you've not used Room Correction audio processing, it is not uncommon to see swings of as much as 12dB between different bass frequencies at any given listening position. Depending on which frequencies have the peaks and dips you may perceive this as low bass or bloated bass when listening to real content. This is why people put such effort into trying to tame their room's bass response characteristics.

If you are using Crossover processing (which I recommend, even if you have full range speakers), you can get a feel for how well YOUR setup is working for bass by using the Crossover test track on that AIX disc mentioned above. It sends a test tone to the front speakers (only) which sweeps back and forth in frequency either side of the Crossover range. At the high frequency end, all the sound will be coming from the front speakers. At the low frequency end all the sound will be coming from the Sub (due to the Crossover). In between, you will get a mix of sound from both the fronts and the Sub. If everything is set up right, and if you have no nasty bass issues in your room, that test tone will maintain constant volume from end to end of the frequency sweep (except for the very lowest bass which is more felt than heard). This is a pretty sensitive test, and trying to "fix" any problems you hear can be a challenge without room testing software. But it will alert you if things are way off, or give you confidence if things sound close to "right".
--Bob
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Last edited by Bob Pariseau; 09-15-2014 at 08:09 AM.
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post #27017 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 06:21 PM
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Artifacts during scenes with lines

Hi all. I just picked up my new (to me) Oppo BDP-93 and am thoroughly enjoying it. But I was watching Captain America The Winter Soldier over the weekend and I noticed something odd happening whenever a scene had horizontal or vertical lines that were close together. I don't know what it's called, but I'll just call it "artifacts".

It's not a huge problem, just something I noticed. I tried to get some video of it, but it flashes on the screen so fast my crappy cell phone video doesn't register it. The artifacts also go away when I pause/frame-by-frame. I did get one picture of it though.

I attached a pic of the original I took from playing it on my computer, and one with an artifact on the horizontal lines for comparison.

What do you guys think? Any way to get rid of these?

My Oppo is plugged in through a Marantz SR5008 via HDMI, to the Samsung UN50H6350.
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post #27018 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 06:40 PM
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You might try the BDP-93 thread for more help.

I would call that moire, a sharpness artifact.

What output resolution are using with the player?

Do you have the display set to 1:1 pixel mapping? Have you checked alignment and overscan with a calibration disc?

Do you have sharpening controls in the player and display set to zero?

-Bill


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post #27019 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 10:27 PM
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Question Anyone heard of Regional Coding Enhancement (RCE)

I was looking at an Amazon listing for a 1934 B&W Frank Capra film, It Happened One Night, which is only available on a Region 1 DVD. No problem, I'm in Massachusetts using an American BDP-93, which I've made region-free for DVDs using the SuperDisk, so I can play British DVDs like the Quantum Leap set with the original incidental music, which is integral to the story lines (the American release doesn't, because they didn't want to pay the rights fees).

But wait - the Amazon listing for It Happened One Night then has this note:

  • Region: Region 1 encoding (US and Canada only)
    PLEASE NOTE:
    Some Region 1 DVDs may contain Regional Coding Enhancement (RCE). Some, but not all, of our international customers have had problems playing these enhanced discs on what are called "region-free" DVD players. For more information on RCE, click .

It doesn't say this disk has RCE
(after all, this disk is six years old, being released in 2008) but this is disquieting.

Will some American DVDs refuse to play on an American player that has been rendered-region free for DVDs?

Or is it only a problem with players that were originally region-coded for a region other than Region 1?

Anyone have the scoop on this?

PS I didn't break the link at the end of that Note - that's what it was like on Amazon.

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post #27020 of 27027 Old 09-15-2014, 10:27 PM
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Just read it somewhere that there is a video/audio quality improvement if I connect HDMI 1 of 93 directly to TV/Projector for Video(Turn off Audio) n then HDMI 2 to A/V Receiver for Audio.

Is there any truth to that ? Thanks in advance.

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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post #27021 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post
Just read it somewhere that there is a video/audio quality improvement if I connect HDMI 1 of 93 directly to TV/Projector for Video(Turn off Audio) n then HDMI 2 to A/V Receiver for Audio.

Is there any truth to that ? Thanks in advance.
There is no truth in that.

-Bill


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post #27022 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
I was looking at an Amazon listing for a 1934 B&W Frank Capra film, It Happened One Night, which is only available on a Region 1 DVD. No problem, I'm in Massachusetts using an American BDP-93, which I've made region-free for DVDs using the SuperDisk, so I can play British DVDs like the Quantum Leap set with the original incidental music, which is integral to the story lines (the American release doesn't, because they didn't want to pay the rights fees).
See here for background on RCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiona...-code_enhanced

It's not been an issue on my SuperDisc-modified players.

Note that It Happened One Night is due on Blu-ray from Criterion in November.

-Bill


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post #27023 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post
Just read it somewhere that there is a video/audio quality improvement if I connect HDMI 1 of 93 directly to TV/Projector for Video(Turn off Audio) n then HDMI 2 to A/V Receiver for Audio.

Is there any truth to that ? Thanks in advance.
There might be on the video side of the equation.....it all depends on whether or not your AVR/Pre amp is "messing up" the HDMI video signal in any way. If your AVR/Pre amp does pass the HDMI signal "cleanly" from the Oppo to the TV, then there should be no difference. You may have to test this out and see for yourself.

Paul
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post #27024 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

So the details are a bit complicated, but you don't have to WORRY about any of that.

--Bob
Bob, thanks so much for the extremely detailed and thorough explanation! I very much appreciate the time you took to go through all that and will recalibrate with your advice in mind.
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post #27025 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 01:20 PM
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When outputting PAL material, with the player set to output 1080p, is it directly upscaling the 576p signal, or does it downconvert to 480p, and then upscale that?

Don't tug on that, you never know what it might be attached to...
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post #27026 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
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^ I've not seen anything from OPPO on that detail. You might try emailing OPPO Tech Support directly. They often provide technical details. Be sure to let them know which player you are asking about as scaling is one of the things that has changed between the various models.
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post #27027 of 27027 Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
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I did test it out after rearranging the cables. It did make a difference, in which the picture is brighter(not necessary a good thing) but much lesser picture noise( a big plus). Not much sound improvement, maybe my memory is short on this.

I am using a Pioneer LX-72 which is their Elite model from 2-3 years ago, in which all its video setting is on default.





Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post
There might be on the video side of the equation.....it all depends on whether or not your AVR/Pre amp is "messing up" the HDMI video signal in any way. If your AVR/Pre amp does pass the HDMI signal "cleanly" from the Oppo to the TV, then there should be no difference. You may have to test this out and see for yourself.

Paul

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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