Official OPPO BDP-95 Anticipation Thread - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

....
I believe that I am now close to my goal of enjoying the experience of hearing pretty much what the engineer was mixing in the control room. And I think the next few steps for further improvements will be increasingly expensive and increasingly subtle.

WoW , Welcome aboard

I was a composer/arranger and have several records and matherials done in several Studios by myself where in control room I acted too as engeener in mixdown all by myself

I just take my goal as I know how my tracks MUST sound having done them all !

On my chain, actually I'm able to reproduce exactly my events like the way they were done
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post #422 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post

It is likely that Modwright Instruments will be doing this.

Here is a link from ModWright showing that they will be offering an upgrade to have digital inputs on their modified 83SE. I would assume they will be doing it for the 95 (93?) as well. I wonder if ModWright will add the digital inputs to a stock 83SE or 95? In other words if you buy a 95 directly from Oppo would they do the digital input mod on a stock player. But reading the provided link it appears that the upgrade would be only done to ModWright modified players. I would be great if they will do stock players though.

The one aspect of the upgrade that would not work for me or anyone with their player rack mounted is there will be a switch on the back panel to go from player to DAC functionality. I really would not want to have to physically change a switch on the rear panel each time I switched from player to DAC use. If Modwright will only do the digital input mod to their players I would just buy an external DAC (W4S DAC 1 or 2) to go with the 95. But I do not have to worry about that as my budget will be maxxed out with the cost of the 95.

http://www.modwright.com/modifications/21

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post #423 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 07:07 AM
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^Bill, I have also heard others state interest in such functionality as well, but to what purpose might one put the Dig Input? HD broadcast TV?

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #424 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

...I was a composer/arranger and have several records and matherials done in several Studios by myself where in control room I acted too as engeener in mixdown all by myself I just take my goal as I know how my tracks MUST sound having done them all ! On my chain, actually I'm able to reproduce exactly my events like the way they were done

Now that is the ultimate gold standard.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #425 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by djbarry View Post

I guess that my question then becomes, given my existing equipment, am I limited in what I can expect from a better player?

Limited by how the pioneer handles its analog multichannel input for multichannel sacd's and dvd audio at the least as you need a fair dinkum analog passthrough for these and its likely the pio digitises its 2ch analog inputs as well for bass management Some early pio's [before about 2007] didnt have a proper 10db boost for the lfe as well so something to also check

So for most intents and purposes the high quality dacs in the 95 will be brought down to the level of the extra adc/dac conversion stage in the pio . There will be many thoughts on the quality when its released so considering you havent got hdmi [that would make it easier to go the 93] best to wait it may surprise everyone
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post #426 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 09:19 AM
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Limited by how the pioneer handles its analog multichannel input for multichannel sacd's and dvd audio at the least as you need a fair dinkum analog passthrough for these and its likely the pio digitises its 2ch analog inputs as well for bass management Some early pio's [before about 2007] didnt have a proper 10db boost for the lfe as well so something to also check

So for most intents and purposes the high quality dacs in the 95 will be brought down to the level of the extra adc/dac conversion stage in the pio . There will be many thoughts on the quality when its released so considering you havent got hdmi [that would make it easier to go the 93] best to wait it may surprise everyone

Thanks for the responses. I don't really understand the last one. I'm not a techie. If you can dumb it down for me, it will be greatly appreciated.
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post #427 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 10:58 AM
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^ Hi dj. Your original question is a good one, and noone can answer it for sure. I think that the part about how the signal is managed by your AVR is what is being focused on. If you take that improved analog signal and input it through regular RCA audio inputs (often labelled "CD", "DVD", etc) almost all AVRs redigitize the signal in order to apply some sophisticated processing to it. This would include such things as bass management and room correction, balance, channel levels, etc. Then the signal will undergo an additional DAC in preparation to being sent to the amp. If your AVR has Ext In inputs, these usually do not even offer the option of redigitizing the analog signal. They are basically pass-thru and apply minimal preamp processing such as Vol control. This will usually result in a "cleaner" signal to the amps, as you have used a "pure analog" route.

If you have nice stereo speakers which have been well placed in a room which is good acoustically that may be your best bet. As to hearing improvements, that is often limited by the weak link in the audio chain. So folks who are looking to hear the most out of their good analog source often will not use an AVR at all. Or, if like many you use the AVR for MC and would like better 2 ch, take a look here where I post the results of comparing several separate preamps with "HT bypass" capability to my DenonAVR.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #428 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^ Hi dj. Your original question is a good one, and noone can answer it for sure. I think that the part about how the signal is managed by your AVR is what is being focused on. If you take that improved analog signal and input it through regular RCA audio inputs (often labelled "CD", "DVD", etc) almost all AVRs redigitize the signal in order to apply some sophisticated processing to it. This would include such things as bass management and room correction, balance, channel levels, etc. Then the signal will undergo an additional DAC in preparation to being sent to the amp. If your AVR has Ext In inputs, these usually do not even offer the option of redigitizing the analog signal. They are basically pass-thru and apply minimal preamp processing such as Vol control. This will usually result in a "cleaner" signal to the amps, as you have used a "pure analog" route.

If you have nice stereo speakers which have been well placed in a room which is good acoustically that may be your best bet. As to hearing improvements, that is often limited by the weak link in the audio chain. So folks who are looking to hear the most out of their good analog source often will not use an AVR at all. Or, if like many you use the AVR for MC and would like better 2 ch, take a look here where I post the results of comparing several separate preamps with "HT bypass" capability to my DenonAVR.

I am using the 5.1 analogue inputs. My setup is quite basic. Are you saying that the SQ has less to do with AVR, and more to do with the speakers?
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post #429 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^ Hi dj. Your original question is a good one, and noone can answer it for sure. I think that the part about how the signal is managed by your AVR is what is being focused on. If you take that improved analog signal and input it through regular RCA audio inputs (often labelled "CD", "DVD", etc) almost all AVRs redigitize the signal in order to apply some sophisticated processing to it.

This really depends somewhat on the age of the processor or AVR. For instance, I have a somewhat older (c. 2004) Rotel 1098 pre/pro which has two sets of inputs. One bank (CD, Tape 1, Tape 2, Tuner) do not re-digitize any signals but just pass through what comes from the source. The other bank will digitize any signal coming through them. This is one of the reasons I have kept this unit rather than moving to a new one. I can then use the stereo outs on my BDP-83SE to the CD input and the output from my phono output to a stereo tape input and not have any additional processing done. I do have the option of mixing in the bass from an LFE channel but there is no speaker distance, room correction, or the like available on the analog-only bank of inputs, nor are they needed in my opinion for this kind of usage.

I think receivers and pre/pros that work like this are one of the main intended targets for the 83SE and the upcoming BDP-95.

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post #430 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by djbarry View Post

I am using the 5.1 analogue inputs. My setup is quite basic. Are you saying that the SQ has less to do with AVR, and more to do with the speakers?

I believe the 2 elements of a Hifi chain that have the most impact on the sound quality are:

1) The recording: how the recording engineers did their job.
If the recording has a crappy sound (and in classical music this often the case), no player, amp or speaker - whatever the price!!! - will make it sound good.

2) The speakers
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post #431 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

...I have a somewhat older (c. 2004) Rotel 1098 pre/pro which has two sets of inputs. One bank (CD, Tape 1, Tape 2, Tuner) do not re-digitize any signals but just pass through what comes from the source...
I think receivers and pre/pros that work like this are one of the main intended targets for the 83SE and the upcoming BDP-95.

Good point. However my guess is that the OP's $600 MSRP Pio has analog-only processing on only the 7.1 input. I believe in trying out the various routes to see which sounds best for what. With my room and my gear, the Ext In route doesn't sound nearly as good overall as using HDMI for MC. The more surprising result is that for stereo, using a regular analog input and applying bass management and Audyssey I get the best SQ! I know, it seems odd considering the extra ADC/DAC conversion but what can I say...

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post #432 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Good point. However my guess is that the OP's $600 MSRP Pio has analog-only processing on only the 7.1 input. I believe in trying out the various routes to see which sounds best for what. With my room and my gear, the Ext In route doesn't sound nearly as good overall as using HDMI for MC. The more surprising result is that for stereo, using a regular analog input and applying bass management and Audyssey I get the best SQ! I know, it seems odd considering the extra ADC/DAC conversion but what can I say...

That your AVR does very good processing!

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post #433 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by djbarry View Post

I am using the 5.1 analogue inputs. My setup is quite basic. Are you saying that the SQ has less to do with AVR, and more to do with the speakers?

No, I was just trying to clarify (not too successfully) the part of the discussion which had focused on the AVR, in view of your original question IRT stereo listening. Looking more closely at your equipment, I'll venture that if you want to enjoy the full benefit of the 95 you would really need to upgrade the electronics (and possibly the speakers). AVRs in particular have come a long way since that Pio model. So think about this alternate route: get a 93, and put the $ saved towards upgrading the AVR to a new HDMI-equipped AVR with good room EQ. It will optimize the speakers in your room and I expect you'd hear improvements in all formats. This is my experience with moving from a Sony AVR of similar vintage and capability as your Pio to a Denon with Audyssey.

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post #434 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 12:24 PM
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That your AVR does very good processing!

I have done quite a bit of testing lately with the 83 SE as stereo analog source and that is indeed the surprising conclusion, as posted here. I believe if I am able to improve my room acoustics further, I may reach a point where other units such as the Parasound Halo P7 will outpace the Denon. It may also depend on a better source, such as the 95. I dunno...

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post #435 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 01:37 PM
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No, I was just trying to clarify (not too successfully) the part of the discussion which had focused on the AVR, in view of your original question IRT stereo listening. Looking more closely at your equipment, I'll venture that if you want to enjoy the full benefit of the 95 you would really need to upgrade the electronics (and possibly the speakers). AVRs in particular have come a long way since that Pio model. So think about this alternate route: get a 93, and put the $ saved towards upgrading the AVR to a new HDMI-equipped AVR with good room EQ. It will optimize the speakers in your room and I expect you'd hear improvements in all formats. This is my experience with moving from a Sony AVR of similar vintage and capability as your Pio to a Denon with Audyssey.

Is this the consensus of the cognoscenti? If so, can anyone recommend a good avr < $500? Or need I spend more?
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post #436 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 02:32 PM
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Hi gang,

I'm trying to decide between these two units primarily as a music player. I have many SACD's, Dvd-Audio discs and HDCD. I have an older avr, a Pioneer VSX-D8505 (no HDMI, of course) and JBL Stadium speakers. I listen mostly to Stereo through analogue cables.

I don't consider myself an audiophile, but I do love music and think that I have a pretty good ear. My question is, considering my equipment, which I have no intention of upgrading anytime soon, is it worth waiting for the 95 and spending twice as much, or just go for the 93. Will there be a big enough improvement in the sound quality to justify the extra time and bucks?

Thanks for your help

Or save even more dollars and buy an 83SE for a great price (from someone on this thread no doubt). I have a SE paired with high-end electronics and am very happy with it for playing CDs, SACDs, DVD-A, BDs, and even streaming audio. Doubt I'll upgrade until the BDP-100 comes out, or there is improved streaming ease of use over the current 83/93/95 model.

The 83SE and 95 are made for improved analog listening, so those are probably the two you should consider... although I'm sure the 93 sounds very good. Don't think anyone but you can answer your question. Good thing Oppo has a 30 day in home trial period.

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post #437 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 02:34 PM
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Is this the consensus of the cognoscenti? If so, can anyone recommend a good avr < $500? Or need I spend more?

I concur 100% that a new receiver and room correction will make more of a difference. No avoid a long discussion about the best receiver which is best for a different forum, I won't say much. But the Pioneer VSX-1120 you can easily get for sub-$500, and it has plenty of features, excellent room correction, and is a great value receiver.
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post #438 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by djbarry View Post

Is this the consensus of the cognoscenti? If so, can anyone recommend a good avr < $500? Or need I spend more?

Yep, that's catch 22 - there are no modern AVRs under $1000 in the same league with the SE/93/95. I am not an expert here, but look at Marantz and Onkyo for AVRs getting high marks in audio.

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post #439 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 03:17 PM
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Or save even more dollars and buy an 83SE for a great price (from someone on this thread no doubt). I have a SE paired with high-end electronics and am very happy with it for playing CDs, SACDs, DVD-A, BDs, and even streaming audio...

Well I don't think you'll save any more dollars, as I don't think you'll get an SE for less than a new 93 right now, but you will get better stereo analog SQ for sure. Then it will depend on whether the rest of your system is up to the task. I had an opportunity to compare a 93 to my 83 and the 93 was minimally better in SQ. Then I got a used 83SE for $600, and that is a worthwhile investment indeed. I just spent an hour enjoying Mark Knopfler "Sailing to Philadelphia" which has a DVD containing high quality soundtracks in both stereo and MC packaged with the HDCD. The MC is stunning, a worthy follow-up to the Brothers in Arms SACD.

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post #440 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 03:33 PM
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...can anyone recommend a good avr < $500? Or need I spend more?

Alright, I can't resist a little OT deal talk. I just spent just over $500 on a Denon AVR 4310 (MSRP $2K) on closeout from BB. Prior to that I'd picked up the 2809 (MSRP $1200) for about $700 on an online promotional deal, and before that the 988 for about $500 BB closeout. The amazing turnover in AVRs with new models and features every year means there are always deals to be found.

I highly recommend a model with Audyssey MultEQ (not 2EQ) as you will find in Denon, Marantz or Onkyo AVRs. MultEQXT is better yet. And I am waiting for one of this year's models, like the Denon 4311, which has the new Audyssey MultEQXT32 to go on sale later this year. I know, it's getting to be an obsession.

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post #441 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 03:57 PM
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Is this the consensus of the cognoscenti? If so, can anyone recommend a good avr < $500? Or need I spend more?

Spend something more.. Like Denon 3311 or 4311 money IMHO. But don't get the 4311 now. Too many issues.
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post #442 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I just spent an hour enjoying Mark Knopfler "Sailing to Philadelphia" which has a DVD containing high quality soundtracks in both stereo and MC packaged with the HDCD. The MC is stunning, a worthy follow-up to the Brothers in Arms SACD.

SoM,

I just listened to Sailing To Philadelphia earlier today. I am a huge fan of Mark Knopfler's and have just about all of his CDs. I saw him in concert last year and it was an excellent show. I have the Brothers In Arms DVD-A and I have to say it is the standard for recording quality.

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And I am waiting for one of this year's models, like the Denon 4311, which has the new Audyssey MultEQXT32 to go on sale later this year. I know, it's getting to be an obsession.

Obsession? Now why would anyone think that? I was the same waiting for the Onkyo 5507 and now the 5508 to show up on shoponkyo. So I can definitely relate to your mindset.

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post #443 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 04:32 PM
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Bill, I am awaiting your further suggestions on good artists with well-recorded discs. And I await your answer to my question above in regards to the usefulness of a Digital Input mod to an Oppo. To what evil purpose would you put such a device, to conquer the entire audio world?

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post #444 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 04:37 PM
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I have a NAD T765 receiver and the new Monitor Audio RX6's plus sub/surrounds. . The NAD has Burr-Brown 24 bit 192kHz Stereo D/A converters as I am sure a lot of your know. I am currently using a Sony BDP-S560 and would like to upgrade to an Oppo. I listen to music in stereo mostly, and reserve the surround for movies. I was wondering what some of your opinions would be on holding out for the 95 or should I get the 93. I guess what it really comes down to for my purpose is the Oppos DAC converters that much better than the NAD's? $500 better? I guess you could only base this answer on the 83SE. Thanks.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a T775 and the BDP-83. I'm considering upgrading to the 95 when it comes out to take advantage of the better sound through the analog outs. Any suggestions out there on the best way to connect? Should I disregard hdmi? Connect both 5.1 analog outs and hdmi? Or, even the 2 channel, 5.1, and hdmi all together?
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post #445 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 05:14 PM
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Bill, I am awaiting your further suggestions on good artists with well-recorded discs. And I await your answer to my question above in regards to the usefulness of a Digital Input mod to an Oppo. To what evil purpose would you put such a device, to conquer the entire audio world?

SoM,

I will give it some thought on some music suggestions and send you a PM. But one of my new favorite artists is Patricia Barber. To be honest I would not have much need for a digital input on the 95 but it would have been cool if Oppo offered it as a standard feature. I have visions of Dr.Evil (Austin Powers) with a digital input equipped 95 under his arm as he attempts to take over the universe.

http://bradley.chattablogs.com/dr.evil.jpg

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post #446 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 05:41 PM
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^ Ah, OK, I had basically concluded that with streaming to a universal player like the 93/95, my only other source is the HD DVR. And that lossy DD material sounds pretty good; as good as it can, I think, sent optically to the Denon for Audyssey. Considering my room and gear, I handle all MC digitally through the Denon.

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post #447 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Styln View Post

...Good thing Oppo has a 30 day in home trial period...Styln

If Nuforce offers the same deal, I could be talked into a 93NE vs stock 95 shootout on my system. I just did Parasound 2100 and P7 in-home trials. These units cost less than $20 ea to ship back. Fortunately The Emo XPA5 amp, which is a monster, has made the cut.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #448 of 1008 Old 01-08-2011, 10:52 PM
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^ Hi dj. Your original question is a good one, and noone can answer it for sure. I think that the part about how the signal is managed by your AVR is what is being focused on.

Yes Soundofmind ; I was trying to stay technical but considering the vintage of the avr ;its a real minefield this subject ;heres a thread back home that concentrated on how denon avrs handle it if you want to plough through it

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=89587

Its a truism that more upmarket units have the choice of passthrough or adc conversion like arcam ;cambridge audio or even my cary and dj leans towards 2ch reproduction it looks like . Ide get a new avr and a 93 too but depending on 3d maybe chase a good under $1000 deal on an anthem mrx300 or save up for one ?
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post #449 of 1008 Old 01-09-2011, 08:32 AM
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^OMG that discussion makes my head swim. I appreciate the link, but as to the complexities of analog signal processing in various AVRs, I will tell you that it has become basically irrelevant for me. For a number of reasons I have abandoned pursuit of MC analog and am very pleased with the SQ of MC DSP in the Denon 4310. So what I have been focusing on is optimizing my enjoyment of Oppo's 2 ch stereo analog out (83 and now 83SE). I can of course only report what I hear with my old ears with my gear in my room. With other gear, a better room acoustically with speakers ideally placed, etc., results will vary.

Going into the Denon Ext Ins (clearly analog-only processing), the SQ is simply not as good overall as redigitizing/DSP in the Denon. This was somewhat surprising to me. I have also tried direct and pure direct modes through the regular analog ins. Regardless of whether that is actually analog, or just minimally processed digital, it also is simply not as good SQ as when I simply switch on Audyssey, which for sure requires redigitizing to PCM.

The second surprising result for me is that the Oppo stereo analog output is audibly better run despite the extra conversions in the Denon vs taking digital HDMI directly out of the Oppo and letting the Denon do DSP and then a single DAC. I believe this indicates the clear superiority of the Oppo DACs over the Denons models I have had (988, 2809, 4310). As I have described in posts on the Oppo threads, I take care to level-match the inputs and use well-recorded familiar music with the Oppo set to repeat 10 sec segments. I can instantly switch A/B/A and hear the same passage over and over.

The third surprising result is that keeping the analog path pure out of the Oppo and substituting better preamping by use of a separate HT Bypass unit (including the $2K Parasound Halo P7) was initially very promising but ultimately has not been worth the trouble to my ears, as I have here. Mebbe I need a hearing test...

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #450 of 1008 Old 01-09-2011, 09:15 AM
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Doubt I'll upgrade until the BDP-100 comes out
Styln

What model is that?
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