Analog Sunset Begins.. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 03:47 PM
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Given that all of the DRM technologies involved have been broken, this is a bit silly. The main effect will be to hurt some legitimate consumers and uses. But it also won't hurt a huge amount of folks.

Some guesses:
-- Most people with Blu-ray are already using HDMI connections. [I have 3 old 480i TV's still running component but I am an exception as are many people here.]
-- Most component users already have component Blu-ray players.
-- Component Blu-ray players will be available for some time (I have a bunch right now) on the used market if nothing else.
-- Existing Blu-ray disks will output 1080i through component Blu-ray players.
-- It is not clear when or if the ICT flag will actually be used on Blu-ray disks.
-- The stronger "no analog at all" tag is even less likely to be used. If you are using your analog Blu-ray player on an old 480i/480p set, you are probably safe for a long time. [As I mentioned above, I have 3 of these.]
-- HDMI->component converters will continue to be available despite the studios. I just don't see these getting effectively suppressed.

One clearly positive result is that removing analog processing and output jacks will decrease the manufacturing costs of Blu-ray players, making them more accessible in the general market and increasing penetration.
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post #32 of 46 Old 04-06-2012, 10:33 AM
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Will ICT affect audio output? I have a BD player with 7.1 analog outputs. Will ICT prevent my player outputting the analog audio out?
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post #33 of 46 Old 04-06-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

Will ICT affect audio output? I have a BD player with 7.1 analog outputs. Will ICT prevent my player outputting the analog audio out?

It shouldn't. When players encounter ICT they have to reduce video resolution, but I've heard nothing about audio restrictions.

We have no evidence that ICT has been deployed. It could be the industry is just depending on the old players and displays wasting away.

-Bill
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post #34 of 46 Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 PM
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Question, I have many old tube tv's that have no DVI and no HDMI - I keep those as backups. Assuming they start producing Blu-rays with software to not play on compisite or componets to an SD tv. Would a product such as these - http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Multi-functional-Converter-Component-Surround/dp/B004K61QAS/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347425921&sr=1-16&keywords=digital+to+analog+tv+switch http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI+Converter - allow me to input my bluray player to it via hdmi and output to composite to one of my old tv's ?
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post #35 of 46 Old 09-12-2012, 08:30 AM
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^^^

Looks like that one does the opposite of what you want. It sends analog (and digital) inputs to one HDMI output. I wouldn't waste my money on anything like that anyway. Regardless of the sunset, I don't see composite going away for a very long time. Your tube tv's will be kaput by then. Discs will simply be resolution limited on analog, not blocked altogether, if I understand it correctly.
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post #36 of 46 Old 09-12-2012, 09:02 AM
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http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI%20Converter&tag=vig-20
what about this one ?

and way I read the Sunset, that NO blu-rays with that "flag" in it, will be displayable over compisite after december 31 2013 - so i hope the above is a work around
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post #37 of 46 Old 09-12-2012, 09:08 PM
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I've recently been through my own little analog sunset hell and lived to tell the tale.

As it turns out, the ICT token is a load of rubbish for some manufacturers (Samsung in this case). My old DVD player (a nice reliable Toshiba progressive scan unit) that I had been using for years with a Benq projector started playing up (well, it was 8 or 9 years old) and I finally decided to take the leap into Blu Ray. It has, so far, been pretty much a disaster.

I did have a few bits of equipment that used HDMI (a WDTV Live and an LCD tv we use most of the time) but I was largely using the HDMI just for audio to a Denon receiver, with everything else going over component - it made it easier to switch between using the projector and the TV.

Anyway, the Samsung BD-D6900a player bought on run out flatly refused to put out anything except 576i over component. I mean anything. No blu ray, no DVD upscaling, nothing. Even the DTV tuner in it, when tuned to a local (Aus) HD station it still just spat out 576i no matter what you changed the internal settings to.

Sighing deeply, I hooked it up to the TV with HDMI cables. I then bought a converter box from Ebay (a HDFury equivalent, there are plenty to choose from). That box basically converts HDMI to component as long as you stick to 1080i max.

A cheap HDMI splitter after the Denon receiver and voila, I simply switch the TV off, switch the old projector on, I'm a happy camper.

What I am extremely unhappy about is the stupidity of Samsung in particular who clearly don't understand what "analog sunset" is supposed to mean in terms of the functionality they are legally still allowed to provide. I say: I am not ready to upgrade my projector and I'll keep using it until it's clearly not functional rather than being artificially crippled by these creeps.

To add insult to injury, some of the blu ray transfers on the limited number of blu disks I've bought are bloody awful, absolutely indistinguishable from an upscaled DVD on the LCD flat panel at native resolution. I didn't expect any great improvements on the projector (native resolution is only 1024x768) but the good ones are the best pictures I've seen on it, while the bad ones have been a waste of plastic.

Meanwhile, the pirates keep providing perfectly watchable copies of the movies regardless of all the rubbish restrictions these idiots are placing on ordinary punters like me, who have to go to fairly extraordinary measures just to watch content we already own in a format we want.

So that's my rant for the day: up yours Samsung, you useless idiots.
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post #38 of 46 Old 09-13-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o.o604 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI%20Converter&tag=vig-20
what about this one ?
and way I read the Sunset, that NO blu-rays with that "flag" in it, will be displayable over compisite after december 31 2013 - so i hope the above is a work around

How can they impose such a thing if we continue to use the equipment we have. I assume this applies to equipment licensed after 12/31/13 so they can impose hardware and firmware to force this on customers (like cinavia infected players).

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #39 of 46 Old 09-13-2012, 08:10 PM
 
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Since analog connections at 480i are the only way to access closed-captions (the standard TV-decoded kind, which are on most DVDs and a few Blu-Ray discs like the earlier Sony and Fox releases), player manufacturers need to include a closed-caption decoder in the player! Most computer DVD player programs have caption decoders, so it shouldn't be too hard to do.
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post #40 of 46 Old 11-30-2012, 10:37 AM
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what would you recommend as a HDMI to VGA or Component converter/cable/whatever so the new ultra slim PS3 i bought for my parents will output blu-ray movies in HD. i think their tv is 720p, it might do 1080i, i forget.
i just found out about this restriction since i always used HDMI and my old ps3s worked fine when i connected to their old tv with the ps2/ps3 component cable.
i know games are fine in HD, but they really arent gamers (yet..ha)

so:
PS3 to old RCA projection TV with 1 component and 1 VGA input. (either should work fine for video right)

Gonna use optical for audio the the old 5.1 receiver.

recommendations?

i've read stuff on the hdfury versions, but why are they so expensive compared to other converters? is it just because it can do 1080p? i don't need 1080p for my parents setup.

too much info out there and i cant figure the best solution (other than giving my parents my 2nd ps3 a slim that will work...and i'll keep the new one...no that was not the plan...ha)

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post #41 of 46 Old 12-01-2012, 07:04 AM
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seriously, no help?

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post #42 of 46 Old 12-01-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dh4645 View Post

seriously, no help?

HDFury is the only thing I've heard used here.

Owners like them but they run hot.

Otherwise: I have a vision your parents TV in a dumpster.

-Bill
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post #43 of 46 Old 12-04-2013, 08:51 AM
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When I bought my first BRD player several years ago, we went for a Panasonic (forget which model, around $200 I think) that had plenty of connection options, including both HDMI and component video outputs, as well as both coax digital and optical outputs, among the various other analog outputs. We made use of the 2 video output options by sending the HDMI to the theater room projector, and the component output to a small flat screen in the same room for my son to watch stuff on during the day without burning up projector lamp hours.

Last year when I bought a 3D Smart BRD player I searched high and low for a player in the $100-$200 range with both HDMI and component video outputs, and it seems they just didn't exist. I ended up with a Sony "smart" player to use with our new Panny AR-100U HD projector, but we had to keep the Panasonic player hooked up to use with the smaller TV because the Sony didn't have both HDMI and component, and the Panasonic didn't have the smart apps (the main reason for getting the new BRD player in the first place).

Now I see some newer Sony players that have only coax digital audio, HDMI, ethernet, and USB. So what's the deal with these newer players seemingly having their connection options reduced to nearly nothing?

As a side note I just ordered an HDMI splitter from Monoprice that will let us use the same Sony BRD player for both the projector and the small TV in the theater room. So that will simplify some stuff.
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post #44 of 46 Old 12-04-2013, 12:25 PM
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The reason is that Sony's Blu-Ray technology licensing since the beginning of 2012 requires that Blu-Ray players are not allowed to output copy-protected HD content over component outputs. Manufacturers can still have component outputs on their Blu-Ray player, but it would be pointless most of the time and lead to customer complaints about paying for crippled hardware. So most of them chose to just remove those analog outputs entirely to make their players cheaper and simpler.
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post #45 of 46 Old 12-05-2013, 06:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

The reason is that Sony's Blu-Ray technology licensing since the beginning of 2012 requires that Blu-Ray players are not allowed to output copy-protected HD content over component outputs. Manufacturers can still have component outputs on their Blu-Ray player, but it would be pointless most of the time and lead to customer complaints about paying for crippled hardware. So most of them chose to just remove those analog outputs entirely to make their players cheaper and simpler.

Actually that is true only for another 26 days at the time of this writing. As of January 1, 2014, no analog video outputs will be allowed. So any device whose manufacturing begins after the 1st of the year can no longer have component video outputs (SD or HD).

Basically what they are doing is increasing the demand for older used players. Then again there have not been many complaints about the lack of component video outputs (present thread excepted) so it seems most people don't care anymore unfortunately.

And, as much as I would like to blame Sony, it was the Blu-Ray adopters group (which Sony is only a part of) and specifically the AACS licensing group that set these rules.

The only good news is that they have not done the same thing for analog audio outputs (even 7.1-channel outputs) and hopefully will never do so.
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post #46 of 46 Old 12-05-2013, 08:15 AM
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Well, that sucks.

Since lawyers are designing our consumer electronics these days, can engineers take over the law now? We'll do a much better job, and we're cheaper! smile.gif
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