Analog Sunset Begins.. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 56 Old 02-09-2011, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rlsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Given that all of the DRM technologies involved have been broken, this is a bit silly. The main effect will be to hurt some legitimate consumers and uses. But it also won't hurt a huge amount of folks.

Some guesses:
-- Most people with Blu-ray are already using HDMI connections. [I have 3 old 480i TV's still running component but I am an exception as are many people here.]
-- Most component users already have component Blu-ray players.
-- Component Blu-ray players will be available for some time (I have a bunch right now) on the used market if nothing else.
-- Existing Blu-ray disks will output 1080i through component Blu-ray players.
-- It is not clear when or if the ICT flag will actually be used on Blu-ray disks.
-- The stronger "no analog at all" tag is even less likely to be used. If you are using your analog Blu-ray player on an old 480i/480p set, you are probably safe for a long time. [As I mentioned above, I have 3 of these.]
-- HDMI->component converters will continue to be available despite the studios. I just don't see these getting effectively suppressed.

One clearly positive result is that removing analog processing and output jacks will decrease the manufacturing costs of Blu-ray players, making them more accessible in the general market and increasing penetration.
rlsmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 56 Old 04-06-2012, 10:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jon Middleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Will ICT affect audio output? I have a BD player with 7.1 analog outputs. Will ICT prevent my player outputting the analog audio out?
Jon Middleton is offline  
post #33 of 56 Old 04-06-2012, 11:13 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,283
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1973 Post(s)
Liked: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

Will ICT affect audio output? I have a BD player with 7.1 analog outputs. Will ICT prevent my player outputting the analog audio out?

It shouldn't. When players encounter ICT they have to reduce video resolution, but I've heard nothing about audio restrictions.

We have no evidence that ICT has been deployed. It could be the industry is just depending on the old players and displays wasting away.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
wmcclain is online now  
post #34 of 56 Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 PM
Member
 
o.o604's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Question, I have many old tube tv's that have no DVI and no HDMI - I keep those as backups. Assuming they start producing Blu-rays with software to not play on compisite or componets to an SD tv. Would a product such as these - http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Multi-functional-Converter-Component-Surround/dp/B004K61QAS/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347425921&sr=1-16&keywords=digital+to+analog+tv+switch http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI+Converter - allow me to input my bluray player to it via hdmi and output to composite to one of my old tv's ?
o.o604 is offline  
post #35 of 56 Old 09-12-2012, 08:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,286
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2046 Post(s)
Liked: 921
^^^

Looks like that one does the opposite of what you want. It sends analog (and digital) inputs to one HDMI output. I wouldn't waste my money on anything like that anyway. Regardless of the sunset, I don't see composite going away for a very long time. Your tube tv's will be kaput by then. Discs will simply be resolution limited on analog, not blocked altogether, if I understand it correctly.
mdavej is offline  
post #36 of 56 Old 09-12-2012, 09:02 AM
Member
 
o.o604's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI%20Converter&tag=vig-20
what about this one ?

and way I read the Sunset, that NO blu-rays with that "flag" in it, will be displayable over compisite after december 31 2013 - so i hope the above is a work around
o.o604 is offline  
post #37 of 56 Old 09-12-2012, 09:08 PM
Member
 
drubie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I've recently been through my own little analog sunset hell and lived to tell the tale.

As it turns out, the ICT token is a load of rubbish for some manufacturers (Samsung in this case). My old DVD player (a nice reliable Toshiba progressive scan unit) that I had been using for years with a Benq projector started playing up (well, it was 8 or 9 years old) and I finally decided to take the leap into Blu Ray. It has, so far, been pretty much a disaster.

I did have a few bits of equipment that used HDMI (a WDTV Live and an LCD tv we use most of the time) but I was largely using the HDMI just for audio to a Denon receiver, with everything else going over component - it made it easier to switch between using the projector and the TV.

Anyway, the Samsung BD-D6900a player bought on run out flatly refused to put out anything except 576i over component. I mean anything. No blu ray, no DVD upscaling, nothing. Even the DTV tuner in it, when tuned to a local (Aus) HD station it still just spat out 576i no matter what you changed the internal settings to.

Sighing deeply, I hooked it up to the TV with HDMI cables. I then bought a converter box from Ebay (a HDFury equivalent, there are plenty to choose from). That box basically converts HDMI to component as long as you stick to 1080i max.

A cheap HDMI splitter after the Denon receiver and voila, I simply switch the TV off, switch the old projector on, I'm a happy camper.

What I am extremely unhappy about is the stupidity of Samsung in particular who clearly don't understand what "analog sunset" is supposed to mean in terms of the functionality they are legally still allowed to provide. I say: I am not ready to upgrade my projector and I'll keep using it until it's clearly not functional rather than being artificially crippled by these creeps.

To add insult to injury, some of the blu ray transfers on the limited number of blu disks I've bought are bloody awful, absolutely indistinguishable from an upscaled DVD on the LCD flat panel at native resolution. I didn't expect any great improvements on the projector (native resolution is only 1024x768) but the good ones are the best pictures I've seen on it, while the bad ones have been a waste of plastic.

Meanwhile, the pirates keep providing perfectly watchable copies of the movies regardless of all the rubbish restrictions these idiots are placing on ordinary punters like me, who have to go to fairly extraordinary measures just to watch content we already own in a format we want.

So that's my rant for the day: up yours Samsung, you useless idiots.
drubie is offline  
post #38 of 56 Old 09-13-2012, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rich86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA - California
Posts: 1,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by o.o604 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI%20Converter&tag=vig-20
what about this one ?
and way I read the Sunset, that NO blu-rays with that "flag" in it, will be displayable over compisite after december 31 2013 - so i hope the above is a work around

How can they impose such a thing if we continue to use the equipment we have. I assume this applies to equipment licensed after 12/31/13 so they can impose hardware and firmware to force this on customers (like cinavia infected players).

A long-time audio/video addict!
Rich86 is offline  
post #39 of 56 Old 09-13-2012, 08:10 PM
 
8traxrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Since analog connections at 480i are the only way to access closed-captions (the standard TV-decoded kind, which are on most DVDs and a few Blu-Ray discs like the earlier Sony and Fox releases), player manufacturers need to include a closed-caption decoder in the player! Most computer DVD player programs have caption decoders, so it shouldn't be too hard to do.
8traxrule is offline  
post #40 of 56 Old 11-30-2012, 10:37 AM
Senior Member
 
dh4645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
what would you recommend as a HDMI to VGA or Component converter/cable/whatever so the new ultra slim PS3 i bought for my parents will output blu-ray movies in HD. i think their tv is 720p, it might do 1080i, i forget.
i just found out about this restriction since i always used HDMI and my old ps3s worked fine when i connected to their old tv with the ps2/ps3 component cable.
i know games are fine in HD, but they really arent gamers (yet..ha)

so:
PS3 to old RCA projection TV with 1 component and 1 VGA input. (either should work fine for video right)

Gonna use optical for audio the the old 5.1 receiver.

recommendations?

i've read stuff on the hdfury versions, but why are they so expensive compared to other converters? is it just because it can do 1080p? i don't need 1080p for my parents setup.

too much info out there and i cant figure the best solution (other than giving my parents my 2nd ps3 a slim that will work...and i'll keep the new one...no that was not the plan...ha)
dh4645 is offline  
post #41 of 56 Old 12-01-2012, 07:04 AM
Senior Member
 
dh4645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
seriously, no help?
dh4645 is offline  
post #42 of 56 Old 12-01-2012, 07:11 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,283
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1973 Post(s)
Liked: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by dh4645 View Post

seriously, no help?

HDFury is the only thing I've heard used here.

Owners like them but they run hot.

Otherwise: I have a vision your parents TV in a dumpster.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
wmcclain is online now  
post #43 of 56 Old 12-04-2013, 08:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
PatrickGSR94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 17
When I bought my first BRD player several years ago, we went for a Panasonic (forget which model, around $200 I think) that had plenty of connection options, including both HDMI and component video outputs, as well as both coax digital and optical outputs, among the various other analog outputs. We made use of the 2 video output options by sending the HDMI to the theater room projector, and the component output to a small flat screen in the same room for my son to watch stuff on during the day without burning up projector lamp hours.

Last year when I bought a 3D Smart BRD player I searched high and low for a player in the $100-$200 range with both HDMI and component video outputs, and it seems they just didn't exist. I ended up with a Sony "smart" player to use with our new Panny AR-100U HD projector, but we had to keep the Panasonic player hooked up to use with the smaller TV because the Sony didn't have both HDMI and component, and the Panasonic didn't have the smart apps (the main reason for getting the new BRD player in the first place).

Now I see some newer Sony players that have only coax digital audio, HDMI, ethernet, and USB. So what's the deal with these newer players seemingly having their connection options reduced to nearly nothing?

As a side note I just ordered an HDMI splitter from Monoprice that will let us use the same Sony BRD player for both the projector and the small TV in the theater room. So that will simplify some stuff.
PatrickGSR94 is offline  
post #44 of 56 Old 12-04-2013, 12:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
amesdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 21
The reason is that Sony's Blu-Ray technology licensing since the beginning of 2012 requires that Blu-Ray players are not allowed to output copy-protected HD content over component outputs. Manufacturers can still have component outputs on their Blu-Ray player, but it would be pointless most of the time and lead to customer complaints about paying for crippled hardware. So most of them chose to just remove those analog outputs entirely to make their players cheaper and simpler.
amesdp is offline  
post #45 of 56 Old 12-05-2013, 06:05 AM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

The reason is that Sony's Blu-Ray technology licensing since the beginning of 2012 requires that Blu-Ray players are not allowed to output copy-protected HD content over component outputs. Manufacturers can still have component outputs on their Blu-Ray player, but it would be pointless most of the time and lead to customer complaints about paying for crippled hardware. So most of them chose to just remove those analog outputs entirely to make their players cheaper and simpler.

Actually that is true only for another 26 days at the time of this writing. As of January 1, 2014, no analog video outputs will be allowed. So any device whose manufacturing begins after the 1st of the year can no longer have component video outputs (SD or HD).

Basically what they are doing is increasing the demand for older used players. Then again there have not been many complaints about the lack of component video outputs (present thread excepted) so it seems most people don't care anymore unfortunately.

And, as much as I would like to blame Sony, it was the Blu-Ray adopters group (which Sony is only a part of) and specifically the AACS licensing group that set these rules.

The only good news is that they have not done the same thing for analog audio outputs (even 7.1-channel outputs) and hopefully will never do so.
alk3997 is offline  
post #46 of 56 Old 12-05-2013, 08:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
amesdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Well, that sucks.

Since lawyers are designing our consumer electronics these days, can engineers take over the law now? We'll do a much better job, and we're cheaper! smile.gif
amesdp is offline  
post #47 of 56 Old 01-01-2015, 11:41 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Blu-ray Player Resolution Over Component Video

I am looking into buying a blu-ray player. Someone I know is giving me a Yamaha AV receiver that he no longer uses. It has two component inputs and no HDMI inputs, so I will be using component cables with the blu-ray player and not an HDMI cable. I know that blu-ray players upconvert DVDs to near HD quality over HDMI. Are DVDs upconverted over component as well?
Cyclone105 is offline  
post #48 of 56 Old 01-01-2015, 01:29 PM
Super Moderator
 
teachsac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 7,305
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked: 643
A. Players do not scale over component.


B. Analog sunset hit a long time ago. Blu-ray players no longer carry component.


HDMI is required for HD video.


S~

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.

Samsung UBD-K8500, Panasonic DMP-UB900 -> Yamaha CX-A5100 -> Sony XBR-75X940C; Mediabridge 6' and 15' HDMI cables.
teachsac is online now  
post #49 of 56 Old 01-01-2015, 04:38 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
What I'll probably do is use an HDMI to component cable to connect the blu-ray player to one of the receiver's component inputs and use an optical cable for the sound. I'm sure I can find a player with an optical output somewhere.
Cyclone105 is offline  
post #50 of 56 Old 01-01-2015, 04:40 PM
Super Moderator
 
teachsac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 7,305
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked: 643
Panasonic has optical Sony has coax. Feel free to post here and we can help you find a player.


OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE


S~

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.

Samsung UBD-K8500, Panasonic DMP-UB900 -> Yamaha CX-A5100 -> Sony XBR-75X940C; Mediabridge 6' and 15' HDMI cables.
teachsac is online now  
post #51 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 07:53 AM
Member
 
dieselrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver , Co
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I need a blu-ray player with HD through RGB

I have a friend with an older 04 Mitsu. HD ready TV with only RGB input for 1080i/720p.

I seem to remember they did away with the HD through the RGB hookup a few years back because the FCC or law required it.

What is the cutoff date for blu-ray players produced which can give a HD signal through the RGB?

Any suggestion for a used player that can play pretty much all the content today made pre-cutoff date so has HD out through the RGB hookup?

VW,Audi, Porsch guy
dieselrat is offline  
post #52 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 08:18 AM
Super Moderator
 
teachsac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 7,305
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked: 643
Not FCC or law, happened 4 years ago. No player allows HD over component after the cutoff date. You'll need at least a 4 year old player.

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.

Samsung UBD-K8500, Panasonic DMP-UB900 -> Yamaha CX-A5100 -> Sony XBR-75X940C; Mediabridge 6' and 15' HDMI cables.
teachsac is online now  
post #53 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 08:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HockeyoAJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post
I have a friend with an older 04 Mitsu. HD ready TV with only RGB input for 1080i/720p.

I seem to remember they did away with the HD through the RGB hookup a few years back because the FCC or law required it.

What is the cutoff date for blu-ray players produced which can give a HD signal through the RGB?

Any suggestion for a used player that can play pretty much all the content today made pre-cutoff date so has HD out through the RGB hookup?
The problem (other than cost) with getting an old player that has the ability to output HD resolutions over analog component/RGB cables is that you are unlikely to find any that have received a firmware update in years. This means you'll run into movies that won't play on them. Plus, you are foregoing any features that have been added to Blu-Ray players in the last few years. Personally, I'd recommend purchasing an HD Fury 3, HDMI-to-VGA/component/RGB converter, which would allow you to purchase whatever Blu-Ray player you want.
HockeyoAJB is online now  
post #54 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 09:02 AM
Member
 
dieselrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver , Co
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Sorry I did some looking but thought that was where my question went....

thanks for moving my post to the appropriate thread....

I am still looking for a specific answer, which player from 4 years or so back is a good or the best choice for what I need???

VW,Audi, Porsch guy
dieselrat is offline  
post #55 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 09:32 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,283
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1973 Post(s)
Liked: 896
Do you have a price range?

Here are some old threads:

List of Blu Ray players with component output and discussion

Blu-Ray with Component Outputs

I see a dumpster in the future for your friend's 2004 TV.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
wmcclain is online now  
post #56 of 56 Old 12-25-2015, 10:00 AM
Member
 
dieselrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver , Co
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I agree the dumpster or in a place where blu-ray hookup is not wanted is the best place for this thing.

Buying one of the cheaply gotten today $200-500 current "dumb" LED tv is the best option if someone wants to do what he wants to do....

I believe most out there are just better off going with the flow if they are not a video head. I suggested as much to him, Getting a cheap current 50-60 " LED along with a current Blu-ray player and what ever else they want like a roku or similar......

Only video heads like most of us see the point in spending $200-300 for something like the HD Fury III....

For that cost my friend, most out there who do not have older analog video equipment could just buy a "dumb" 50-60" LED and be quite happy from that point forward.....

But that is a hard sell to some who see their perfectly working older tv so don't see the point of buying a new current TV to do this one thing.....

VW,Audi, Porsch guy
dieselrat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Players

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off