Analog Sunset Begins.. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 46 Old 01-10-2011, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/a...ill-only-outp/

The chicken littles have been worried about this since long before the first Blu-ray (or even HD DVD) title was ever released, and the first step towards the analog sunset has officially come. Any new Blu-ray player announced after January 1st 2011 will only output HD via HDMI -- players that started shipping last year can still be sold until the end of this year though. If you just love component video, you might figure you'll be able to get a player today and continue to enjoy it for years to come, but maybe not. You see the studios also have the Image Constraint Token (ICT) which when set on a title will tell every and all Blu-ray players to down convert analog output to 540p. The only reprieve is that if its set on a title, it must be marked on the box, and of course it can't be retroactively set (any title you own now will continue to play exactly the same way it does on your existing players). We're waiting for final confirmation, but apparently the ICT hasn't been an option to studios until now so start looking for the icon on your latest purchases. The final stage in the sunset is 2013 when analog outputs will be removed from Blu-ray players completely, but we suspect we'll have better things to worry about by then like ultra HD or digital distribution.
b_scott is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 02:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
blacklion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Any thoughts on CINAVIA?

Denon X4000: Yamaha AS500;TS500;CDS300: Pioneer BDP62FD;BDP23FD;DV58AV;DV610: Panasonic DMP-BDT500; Sony BDP-S790; Samsung PS60E6500
blacklion is offline  
post #3 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 04:20 AM
Senior Member
 
rickcfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Kind of makes the extra expense of the Oppo BDP-95 mute for the future.
rickcfer is offline  
post #4 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 04:29 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,147
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post

Kind of makes the extra expense of the Oppo BDP-95 mute for the future.

The new restrictions apply to analog video, not audio.

-Bill
wmcclain is online now  
post #5 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 08:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
budwich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
that makes more sense. Not a big deal at this time then as people with "old stuff" (ie. rcvrs) are running analog INs and going thru a external HDMI switch and /or direct to the display (beit TV or projector).
budwich is offline  
post #6 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 08:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
DeAd MiKe 187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklion View Post

Any thoughts on CINAVIA?

Hate it.
DeAd MiKe 187 is offline  
post #7 of 46 Old 01-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Senior Member
 
rickcfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The new restrictions apply to analog video, not audio.

-Bill

Thanks for the update; saving more for the 95
rickcfer is offline  
post #8 of 46 Old 02-08-2011, 09:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
djdrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Latitude: 39° 44' N Longitude: 86° 17' W
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This is laughable! If the bureaucrats/idiots think that this is going to stop piracy in any way, they have really lost any real sense of reality. I swear, these people must sit around in board rooms and have to come up with something...anything...that can be considered an idea. When will these companies learn that EVERTHING and ANYTHING will be cracked. It is just a matter of time. Alienating even more consumers with this nonsense is just, well...stupid.

HDMI is cracked. BD+ is cracked.

Aren't you gonna take your skates off?
djdrock is offline  
post #9 of 46 Old 02-08-2011, 10:48 AM
Senior Member
 
homerging's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 19
It looks like new Blu-ray players won't have ypbpr, s-video and 7.1 analogue audio at all.

This wasn't the first step. A couple of months back the industry issued legal threats to stop retailers in North America from selling the HDFury and Moome HDMI to component converters.

Don't think this is about stopping piracy. It's forced obsolescence with the spectre of piracy as a justification.
homerging is online now  
post #10 of 46 Old 02-08-2011, 10:54 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,147
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdrock View Post

This is laughable! If the bureaucrats/idiots think that this is going to stop piracy in any way, they have really lost any real sense of reality. I swear, these people must sit around in board rooms and have to come up with something...anything...that can be considered an idea. When will these companies learn that EVERTHING and ANYTHING will be cracked. It is just a matter of time. Alienating even more consumers with this nonsense is just, well...stupid.

HDMI is cracked. BD+ is cracked.

My theory is that when the studio execs and their lawyers were in college they used to dup VHS tapes by running a cable between two players and they think that is how it is still done.

At least they understand that level. The new DRM techniques: they don't understand those but have been assured they are unbreakable. Else why did they spend all that money to develop them?

-Bill
wmcclain is online now  
post #11 of 46 Old 02-08-2011, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

It looks like new Blu-ray players won't have ypbpr, s-video and 7.1 analogue audio at all.

This wasn't the first step. A couple of months back the industry issued legal threats to stop retailers in North America from selling the HDFury and Moome HDMI to component converters.

Don't think this is about stopping piracy. It's forced obsolescence with the spectre of piracy as a justification.

probably. But you can still use your current tech, it doesn't kill it. If you upgrade in the future you will just have to buy different cables - but since your upgrades will all have HDMI, they'll all work together. HDMI isn't inferior sound or PQ, so it shouldn't really be an issue.
b_scott is offline  
post #12 of 46 Old 02-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
djdrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Latitude: 39° 44' N Longitude: 86° 17' W
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

Don't think this is about stopping piracy. It's forced obsolescence with the spectre of piracy as a justification.

I don't agree. They are trying to save face by doing anything they can, stupid or not, to fight piracy. HDMI is cracked, and soon to be cracked wide open. What is next? Forced obsolescence for this "cutting edge" technology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

My theory is that when the studio execs and their lawyers were in college they used to dup VHS tapes by running a cable between two players and they think that is how it is still done.

At least they understand that level. The new DRM techniques: they don't understand those but have been assured they are unbreakable. Else why did they spend all that money to develop them?

-Bill

Bill - I like you man!

Maybe these guys don't want to face the music! Again, HDMI is cracked. Even if they issue a new HDMI standard, the millions of devices that are of the current HDMI are still exposed.

Aren't you gonna take your skates off?
djdrock is offline  
post #13 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
amesdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post
Kind of makes the extra expense of the Oppo BDP-95 mute for the future.
Funny how often you see people use the word "mute" in place of the correct "moot". It probably began out of simple misunderstanding of the word, but it's repeated so often that it will probably be an official language change within a generation.
dh4645 and erhurd like this.
amesdp is offline  
post #14 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 08:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So eventually cable / Sat won't even work via component video connections and be HD? Ouch... That will be a tough one for sure.

I'm just thinking of the hundreds of installations I have been invloved with where we used component video for the distribution side of things. Ouch.... Not easily changed at all in most all of those installations.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #15 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
DeAd MiKe 187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Do the studios really think that people actually need to pirate Blu-ray discs using Component cables? LOL

This isn't VHS, studios. This just seems like a gimmick to sell more HDTVs (either to people who don't have HDMI, or only have one HDMI port).
DeAd MiKe 187 is offline  
post #16 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post
So eventually cable / Sat won't even work via component video connections and be HD? Ouch... That will be a tough one for sure.
By 2013, yeah. But by then, 4K might be on the horizon. Worry about this is like worrying you won't be able to watch VHS tapes on your 65" Plasma.
b_scott is offline  
post #17 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 09:51 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 73
I don't recall ever seeing 960x540 being a supported resolution in displays I've had. Same for a player. Next stop down 480p?

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #18 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 11:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
moxie1617's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 2,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

Funny how often you see people use the word "mute" in place of the correct "moot". It probably began out of simple misunderstanding of the word, but it's repeated so often that it will probably be an official language change within a generation.

Don't forget Joey Tribbian's "moo point". It never caught on though.
erhurd likes this.
moxie1617 is online now  
post #19 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 11:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

By 2013, yeah. But by then, 4K might be on the horizon. Worry about this is like worrying you won't be able to watch VHS tapes on your 65" Plasma.

I'm just thinking of the hundreds of installations I have been invloved with where we used component video for the distribution side of things. Ouch.... Not easily changed at all in most all of those installations.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #20 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I'm just thinking of the hundreds of installations I have been invloved with where we used component video for the distribution side of things. Ouch.... Not easily changed at all in most all of those installations.

Can't you just tie the HDMI on and pull it through with the Component?
b_scott is offline  
post #21 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 12:12 PM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,147
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

Can't you just tie the HDMI on and pull it through with the Component?

I think I saw that in a Three Stooges movie once.

Component is distributed at distances and split to multiple devices in ways difficult to replicate with HDMI.

-Bill
wmcclain is online now  
post #22 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I think I saw that in a Three Stooges movie once.

Component is distributed at distances and split to multiple devices in ways difficult to replicate with HDMI.

-Bill

I guess I'm not picturing what you're talking about. Component from receiver to projector. I guess if you zip tie all cables within the wall that would be an issue.

I'm picturing what I do as a networking tech with Ethernet cables - you use bad one to pull through the good one.
b_scott is offline  
post #23 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 01:18 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Distribution... Mutliple rooms with automation.....


HDMI will NOT do it at all. Well maybe with some uber expensive equipment behind it?
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #24 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 01:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So an HD-DVD player will always play HD-DVD's via component because the players and media came out long before all this?

I guess, it will be relagated to component video for me as with this news, I will need all the HDMI inputs I can muster.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #25 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Distribution... Mutliple rooms with automation.....


HDMI will NOT do it at all. Well maybe with some uber expensive equipment behind it?

can't you use HDMI repeaters? For super long lengths of component you'd have attenuation anyway, right?
b_scott is offline  
post #26 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

So an HD-DVD player will always play HD-DVD's via component because the players and media came out long before all this?

I guess, it will be relagated to component video for me as with this news, I will need all the HDMI inputs I can muster.

Anything out will not change, obviously. This is saying that everything built in 2011 will only have HDMI, not component. So, an HDTV that comes out in 2011 might not be able to accept your HD-DVD player's 1080i signal over component. But your current HDTV always will of course.
b_scott is offline  
post #27 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 01:56 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

can't you use HDMI repeaters? For super long lengths of component you'd have attenuation anyway, right?

Maybe.. But I am thinking of the splits and the switchers and video distribution devices in place. Nobody I know does this sort of thing with HDMI yet.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #28 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 02:08 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

can't you use HDMI repeaters? For super long lengths of component you'd have attenuation anyway, right?

Deleted by author
alk3997 is offline  
post #29 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 17
when you run over 50ft, are you getting dropped signal?

Probably would actually be smarter to run CAT6 anyway, since you can run 4-5 cables easily just in case one goes bad, and cat6 is cheap.
b_scott is offline  
post #30 of 46 Old 02-09-2011, 03:16 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

when you run over 50ft, are you getting dropped signal?

Probably would actually be smarter to run CAT6 anyway, since you can run 4-5 cables easily just in case one goes bad, and cat6 is cheap.

Deleted by author
alk3997 is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off