Official OPPO BDP-95 Owner's Thread - Page 174 - AVS Forum
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post #5191 of 11218 Old 08-08-2011, 11:07 PM
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I have a question about the Oppo 95 in conjunction with a Denon AVPA1HDA
I have an Oppo 95's setup menu - audio format setup - HDMI.
Using Toy Story 3 BD, If I select Auto on the Oppo, the DTS-MA symbol lights on the Oppo and my Denon AVPA1HDA displays Multi Channel In 7.1 (PCM) but if I select Bitstream on the Oppo, the AVPA1HDA displays, for example, DTS Surround 5.1 on a 7.1 disc. Does this mean the Oppo is doing the decoding ? i would prefer the Denon to do it.
Using a DD DVD, I get Dolby Digital displayed in either case.
Which is the correct setting to use on the Oppo ? What difference does secondary audio on/off mean ? I have Oppo outputting HDMI 1 to the AVPA1HDA and HDMI 2 to my SONY 3d projector as the AVPA1HDA doesn't do 3d.
Many thanks.
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post #5192 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kee68 View Post

I just ordered a Oppo-93 as it has the same video board as the 95, but my question is has anyone hooked up a 95 to a 11.2 system? Other than HDMI connection ? If you use HDMI wouldn't that eliminate the great Sabre 32 DACS ? Any comments would be appreciated. I am running all Klipsch speakers and a Denon A-100 AVR all very high efficiency speaker 95 and above plus 2 SVS PB-13 ultras. Just need an objective answer and not trying to start a debate. Thx Bob
I can change if I do it today.

Hi Bob,
Yes, I have a BDP-95 hooked up to an 11.2 channel receiver. It's a Yamaha RX Z11, their flagship model. I have it hooked up with both HDMI as well as with the analog 7.1 channel output from the Oppo. I bought the Z11 as it has one of the most sophisticated soundfield processors on the market, featuring 40 different venues or programs with several adjustable parameters for each program. The Yamaha gives me the choice of adding a soundfield when it will benefit the program. The Yamaha adds 4 "presence" channels with the speakers placed high on your front and rear walls to give a 3 dimensional sound.

I use the straight analog inputs from the Oppo when I am listening to well recorded music. With the 95, I've found that a lot of music, concerts, and movies fall into this category. I've enjoyed the early Moody Blues albums on surround SACD that have the original "quad" mixes from the late 60s and early 70s. Also on Blu-ray in DTS HD Master Audio Christean Thielemann and the Wiener Philharmoniker playing the complete Beethoven Symphonies, highly recommended.

I am using my system without any subs, as my system doesn't need them. I have 2 Carver Amazing Mark IV Platinum Loudspeakers, with 60 inch ribbons and 4 long throw 12 inch woofers per speaker. I am powering these with a Carver TFM 75 (750 wpc @ 8 ohms). I am using Sunfire Cinema Ribbons for the surround speakers and center channel speaker. The Oppo has good dynamic range and I have the amps to take advantage of it. The Amazings have great imaging since the ribbon gives you a perfect line source, as well as a good soundstage (the speakers are dipole, firing both to the front and rear. They must be 3 to 4 feet away from the walls).

I am very happy with the 95. It is a great Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-A, DVD and CD player. You don't have to limit yourself to the audio output of the HDMI connection or the analog outputs. I like having the choice for different situations and I love using both of them.

Brad
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post #5193 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Edge View Post

I have a question about the Oppo 95 in conjunction with a Denon AVPA1HDA
I have an Oppo 95's setup menu - audio format setup - HDMI.
Using Toy Story 3 BD, If I select Auto on the Oppo, the DTS-MA symbol lights on the Oppo and my Denon AVPA1HDA displays Multi Channel In 7.1 (PCM) but if I select Bitstream on the Oppo, the AVPA1HDA displays, for example, DTS Surround 5.1 on a 7.1 disc. Does this mean the Oppo is doing the decoding ? i would prefer the Denon to do it.
Using a DD DVD, I get Dolby Digital displayed in either case.
Which is the correct setting to use on the Oppo ? What difference does secondary audio on/off mean ? I have Oppo outputting HDMI 1 to the AVPA1HDA and HDMI 2 to my SONY 3d projector as the AVPA1HDA doesn't do 3d.
Many thanks.

Odds are you have Secondary Audio ON. This means the player is decoding the track to allow mixing of the secondary audio track if present.

For LPCM output that's no problem. But for Bitstream output the player then has to RE-encode the result, on the fly, for output. Since no consumer gear has the horsepower to re-encode a lossless track on the fly, the player does this as "full bit rate" (1.536Mbps) LOSSY DTS 5.1 -- regardless of the original channel count of the track.

I recommend you either use LPCM (not Auto) or turn Secondary Audio OFF (unless you really need it, as when playing a Picture-in-Picture Commentary feature) and then use Bitstream.
--Bob

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post #5194 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 05:37 AM
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Thanks Bob.
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post #5195 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 10:00 AM
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[quote=Bill Mac;20793967][quote=MovieGuruJeff;20793638]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post




Speaking of posting exact quotes, where did I ever post the 95 is the best thing for a mere $1000.00? Maybe I did post that but I do not believe I did in those exact terms. So maybe you wouldn't mind posting where I in fact stated the above.



You might think you "know things" but it is still just your opinion and not the least bit factual. It is also other 95 owners opinions that it is an excellent player for $1000.00. I do not see other 95 owners stating that their opinions are fact.







I would say the two above quotes from your previous posts do in fact INFER that your $7000.00 Arcam is absolutely better than the 95. So I'm not sure how you can say you never posted anything to that nature.

I find it interesting that you always add that your Arcam and your Marantz cost X amount of dollars. Most here just post the brand and the model number but I guess you need to let us all know what you spent. I guess you feel that if you spend large sums of cash on a component it is better than less expensive ones. This unfortunately is not always true. Just a quick look at the $3500.00 Lexicon BD-30 bluray player and you would know that.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/t...ray-oppo-clone

So I'll end this discussion on that note. If you wish to discuss this subject any further please feel free to send me a PM. That way we are not bogging down this thread any further.

Bill

Silly wabbit. . . Everybody KNOWS the Lexicon is 3.5 times better than the Oppo 95 and 7 times better than the Oppo 83. Oops. . . sorry for the rounding error. Make that 7.0140280561122244488977955911824 times better than the Oppo 83. . . it only cost $499, not $500.
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post #5196 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kee68 View Post

I just ordered a Oppo-93... I am running all Klipsch speakers and a Denon A-100 AVR...

Good choice, the A100 will pair perfectly with the 93 via HDMI. There is no need to pay more for the 95 or use analog at all. Audyssey MultEQXT32 in the A100 is an awesome room correction system. And if you want even better SQ consider an Audyssey Pro Kit calibration (see thread).

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #5197 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 01:59 PM
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Yes. Contact OPPO-Bluray.co.uk for the links to the previous firmware release. The EU model does not have Netflix so the firmware can be reverted to a previous release.

Not according to the Oppo helpdesk. In their mail they say:
Quote:
It is not possible to downgrade firmware

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post #5198 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 02:55 PM
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I just read Stereophile's September article on the BDP-95, and was very pleased at the review. Congrats to Oppo Digital for all their hard work and vision in setting new standards in Universal Blu-ray players and improving their product on an continual basis. I have been so pleased in using this product and is my most sound investment in my Audio/Video system next to my PSB Synchrony One speakers. Bravo Zulu!

Russell
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post #5199 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kraton View Post

Not according to the Oppo helpdesk. In their mail they say:

It looks like they changed their downgrade policy with the 41-0323 Firmware. Previous Firmware releases allowed for the firmware to be downgraded. Their firmware release notes for the 41-0323 Firmware explicitly listed downgrading as being unavailable.
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post #5200 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by airman23 View Post

I'm thinking of the 93 with an external DAC such as the V-DAC for 2 channel stereo. Let me know what you think.

1. If it were my money, I'd purchase the 95 vs the 93 + external DAC.

2. Not sure how challenging your listening conditions/room acoustics are or how effective the Yamaha room correction is, but a lot of folks like the AQ of HDMI to a pre/pro/receiver engaging automatic room correction (ARC) over analogue out, no room correction. If the Yamaha's ARC is effective, the 93 may be the better match.

3. As stated a few posts ago by Jazz, the primary reason for the 95 is to up the AQ antie with more outdated pre/pros/receivers. The RX-2000 may be overkill for TV/Gaming/I-Pod. Not sure what kind of return policy you have on the Yamaha, but you may try it and see how it sounds first...you may be satisfied.

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post #5201 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kee68 View Post

I just ordered a Oppo-93 as it has the same video board as the 95, but my question is has anyone hooked up a 95 to a 11.2 system? Other than HDMI connection ? If you use HDMI wouldn't that eliminate the great Sabre 32 DACS ? Any comments would be appreciated. I am running all Klipsch speakers and a Denon A-100 AVR all very high efficiency speaker 95 and above plus 2 SVS PB-13 ultras. Just need an objective answer and not trying to start a debate. Thx Bob
I can change if I do it today.

Modern AVR's do not support any processing on the MCH analog input. You can't go from a 5.1 or 7.1 input to a 11.2 output unless you use HDMI. The AVRs can perform processing on the stereo input but then you negate the benefits of the Sabre DACs. The AVR input would perform an Analog to Digital conversion (ADC), process to 11.2 using its DSP, and then perform a Digital to Analog conversion (DAC) again.

You buy the Oppo 95 for the analog output/DAC so you don't want to modify the analog signal in anyway.

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post #5202 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 09:37 PM
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eecubed

Aren't volume controls in most prepros digital thus running the analog in to a prepro requires you to convert the analog signal to digital for volume control then back to analog to output to your amplifier?

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post #5203 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 10:03 PM
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I could be wrong but I think that while the read-out may be digital, the actual controller is analog. Others may disagree.
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post #5204 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 10:43 PM
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I have the Oppo connected via HDMI to a Denon AVPA1HDA.

When I go to speaker menu on the Oppo and try to use test tones I get no sound.

Any ideas ??

Thanks
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post #5205 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Edge View Post

I have the Oppo connected via HDMI to a Denon AVPA1HDA.

When I go to speaker menu on the Oppo and try to use test tones I get no sound.

Any ideas ??

Thanks

The test tones are only for the Multichannel outputs of the 95. You would be using the speaker settings and bass management of the Denon when using HDMI.

Bill

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post #5206 of 11218 Old 08-09-2011, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Edge View Post

I have the Oppo connected via HDMI to a Denon AVPA1HDA.

When I go to speaker menu on the Oppo and try to use test tones I get no sound.

Any ideas ??

Thanks

The test tones are only generated for the multi-channel analog out on the Oppo. For the HDMI connection use the test tones generated by your receiver to balance the output of each channel.
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post #5207 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

eecubed

Aren't volume controls in most prepros digital thus running the analog in to a prepro requires you to convert the analog signal to digital for volume control then back to analog to output to your amplifier?

The part below is from another thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1218982
Not everyone does this but I suspect that most mid-level equipment vendors do.

This is the marketing blurb from Yamaha (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/technology/d..._top_art_1.jsp).
Digitally Regulated Volume Control
Digital volume controls have become popular in home audio products, but for various reasons, analog is the better choice for this key component. Yamaha has combined the best of both by designing a high precision digital device (Crystal Semiconductor CS3310 LSIs) that controls an analog signal. This provides two benefits. First, a digitally controlled device is more accurate for balancing levels between channels and offers much finer control than an analog device. In the DSP-AZ1, the control range is from 0dB to -99dB in extremely accurate 0.5dB steps throughout the entire range, with negligible gang error. This wide range and narrow steps mean that greater attenuation is possible, with precision even at low volume levels. Second, an analog volume control permits good signal resolution of very low signal levels. This is important for subtle signals that are often masked by louder signals and are not resolved as clearly.

And this is from an excellent review of the Yamaha RX-V2700 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Yamaha...r.-a0167626443)
Between the DAC output and preamp-out, the signal passes through four operational amplifiers, five electrolytic capacitors, and one MOS electronic switch. The first analog block is the balanced to single ended converter for the DAC. This is followed by an electronic switch that selects the DAC or the external multi-channel analog input. Next is an operational amplifier that provides a small amount of gain and buffers the switch. The electronic volume control follows. It is a custom device from Yamaha (YAC 526) that includes an internal operational amplifier. The electronic volume control runs on +/-6V rails, but all other circuits in the analog path are on a +/-12V rail, including the New Japan Radio NJU 7313 analog switch. The last analog stage buffers the electronic volume control from the preamp outputs and the power amp inputs. The opamps used for this stage are the uPC4570.

And the equivalent analysis on the Onkyo 805 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Onkyo+...s.-a0178450770)
The single-ended signal enters the highest-performance Cirrus digital volume control available (CS3318). This unit handles all eight channels and has internal active operation amplifiers. It is limited to +/- 8.5 volt rails. The CS3318 is the top-of-the-line Cirrus digital volume control with a worst-case THD of 0.0063% and a dynamic range of 121dB. The Cirrus chip drives the preamp outputs directly with only one electrolytic capacitor between the RCA plugs and the Cirrus chip. The muting function at the preamp output is done by a relay like the pro stuff.

And a view from a high end manufacturer
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17918251

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post #5208 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The test tones are only for the Multichannel outputs of the 95. You would be using the speaker settings and bass management of the Denon when using HDMI.

Bill

Thanks Bill
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post #5209 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eecubed View Post

The part below is from another thread...

That may all be true, but if you were to connect the 95 directly to your amplifier and use the 95's volume controls, doesn't it sound better???

I'm just asking as I did this and the difference was noticable. I just presumed (probably in error) that the prepro was redigitizing the signal for volume control purposes and this was the reason for the difference in sound quality.

Just as a general principle, wouldn't you think the fewer electronics that massage the signal, the better?

P.S.... Given that the 95's DACs are 32 bit, I'd question if the volume control in most systems (more than a year old) are designed at that level....or does that not come into play?????

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post #5210 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That may all be true, but if you were to connect the 95 directly to your amplifier and use the 95's volume controls, doesn't it sound better???

I'm just asking as I did this and the difference was noticable. I just presumed (probably in error) that the prepro was redigitizing the signal for volume control purposes and this was the reason for the difference in sound quality.

Just as a general principle, wouldn't you think the fewer electronics that massage the signal, the better?

P.S.... Given that the 95's DACs are 32 bit, I'd question if the volume control in most systems (more than a year old) are designed at that level....or does that not come into play?????

I have my 95 connected directly to my mono-block tube amps, and I am getting the best stereo sound from a digital source I have ever heard in my system.
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post #5211 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by classicrecording View Post

I have my 95 connected directly to my mono-block tube amps, and I am getting the best stereo sound from a digital source I have ever heard in my system.

Surely though,the volume control on the Oppo will also digitise the signal,so there should be no difference between connecting directly or using the volume control on a pre-pro.
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post #5212 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kgulls View Post

Surely though,the volume control on the Oppo will also digitise the signal,so there should be no difference between connecting directly or using the volume control on a pre-pro.

The content is originally digital so the oppo doesn't need to re-digitise the signal. I believe that the oppo volume control is implemented in the DAC or digitally before the conversion to analog.

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post #5213 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by kgulls View Post

Surely though,the volume control on the Oppo will also digitise the signal,so there should be no difference between connecting directly or using the volume control on a pre-pro.

I am also running straight into powered speakers using the Oppo 95 - no pre amp / volume controller.

I definately hear an improvement versus my old set up which was into an KRK Ergo monitor controller. I notice a lot more detail being presented using the Oppo dac.

However there are three theorectical problems with this approach;
1. Loss of bit depth: seems effectively ruled out using 32bit dac
2. Clipping ie overloading your amplifier
3. Risk of volume reset/blowing speakers

I have talked about 1 and provided link before in previous page if you wish to look this up, but I was looking at monitor controllers in a studio/mastering forum and they were discussing a few mastering devices that use digital volume control only-after all it is the shortest signal length , as noted by previous poster, so it may not be a bad thing. The lower the signal is lowered digitally the more likely you are to be able to perceive this effect , which basically comes down to compression I think.

On 2 I may try a pair of inline attenuators to address this issue and also 1 and 3 to some extent.

I generally listen to CDs and FLAC at 50 out of 100 volume max which is -20db (each step from 0,5 .. 95,100 is 2db shift) but with blu ray and MKV I'm sometimes up at 80.

So I guess -10db attenuators are the best I can go with to max out at 75 of current levels.

To answer your question though, yes many pre/pros will do additional
AD/DA - for example if EQ is applied, but some people also use 'passive preamps' which are all analogue (even digitally controlled ones)
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post #5214 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 09:10 PM
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I have completed my personal review of the sound of the Oppo BDP-95 and my conclusion is that at no time did it sound better the the Sony SCD-XA5400ES for music in both red book and SACD, also at no time did it sound better for movies than Sony's SCD-S5000ES through their respective analog outs. Today, I received my Sept. edition of Stereophile magazine and I read the review on the Oppo BDP-95. While it was very well written, this is one time that I totally disagree with the sonic assessment of the Oppo. For music, at all times I played the Oppo in Pure Direct and it never was the sonic equal of the XA5400. As I stated before, the Sony had a sonic purity to the notes that made me want more and had me turning up the volume for more music. Its ability to get every ounce of sound from a note makes music more engaging and it has the kind of musicality that I never experienced listening to the Oppo. The sound of the XA5400ES always puts a smile on my face when listening to it. The only time the Oppo put a smile on my face was listening to a 5.1 SACD entitled, "97th and Columbus," by Doc Powell. On all other music, the sound was full on the Oppo, but it never exhibited the same engaging musicality of the Sony XA-5400ES. The same applies for movie soundtracks with the Sony BDP-S5000ES giving an impact and purity of sound that I never heard at any time playing soundtracks through the Oppo. The Oppo probably sounds good to a lot of folks, but to me, to say it sounds great something I cannot say. For whatever its worth, I am using all Blue Truth cables from Bettercables.com. I have separate amps, First Watt Aleph J and Krell KAV-500, and an Arcam AV9 pre/pro. I appreciate Oppo's policy of letting one try out this unit for 30 days. It allowed me to try it in my system, but unfortunately, it is a step backwards for me.
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post #5215 of 11218 Old 08-10-2011, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
...

Just as a general principle, wouldn't you think the fewer electronics that massage the signal, the better?
It would be true if your speakers were accurate and were correctly placed in an acoustically perfect room. Otherwise, you would benefits from using digital EQ technology to neutralize the effects of inaccurate speakers, poorly placed speakers, and/or poor room acoustics.

The above is similar to the issue with SACD. Is it better to go from DSD to Analog or to go from DSD to PCM/EQ to Analog?

There are other advantages to using pre-pro.
A) You can connect more than one source to your amp and speakers.
B) is the voltage of the oppo analog output strong enough to drive the amp to its maximum volume?

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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
P.S.... Given that the 95's DACs are 32 bit, I'd question if the volume control in most systems (more than a year old) are designed at that level....or does that not come into play?????
Once the DACs have converted the signal to analog, then the 32 bit doesn't come into play any more. In the analog domain, you deal with accuracy, S/N ratio, dynamic range, and distortion.

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post #5216 of 11218 Old 08-11-2011, 02:43 AM
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gbaby's discription of the sound of the 95 is exactly what I heard when it first arrived.
What"s interesting is that some 95's don't seem to need much brake-in and some people hear improvements at 500+hours.
Maybe gbaby could get a replacement or ask for an extention of the 30 day trail.
He may end up liking the Sony the best----but I am sure that if it is properly set up and broken-in, they will both sound good and nothing like what it sounds like now.
And the hi-rez is wonderful.
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post #5217 of 11218 Old 08-11-2011, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by billnln View Post
gbaby's discription of the sound of the 95 is exactly what I heard when it first arrived.
What"s interesting is that some 95's don't seem to need much brake-in and some people hear improvements at 500+hours.
Maybe gbaby could get a replacement or ask for an extention of the 30 day trail.
He may end up liking the Sony the best----but I am sure that if it is properly set up and broken-in, they will both sound good and nothing like what it sounds like now.
And the hi-rez is wonderful.
Yep that says it all
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post #5218 of 11218 Old 08-11-2011, 11:55 AM
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Pardon me if already posted...

The UPS gal just dropped off my BDP-95 and I'm in the process of running cables and hooking it up.
Can both the dedicated stereo outputs be used simultaneously?

example... hook the stereo RCA to my PreAmp and hook the XLR to my headphone amp?
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post #5219 of 11218 Old 08-11-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damaltor View Post

Pardon me if already posted...

The UPS gal just dropped off my BDP-95 and I'm in the process of running cables and hooking it up.
Can both the dedicated stereo outputs be used simultaneously?

example... hook the stereo RCA to my PreAmp and hook the XLR to my headphone amp?

Yes. I was doing the exact same thing with the RCA stereo outputs to my Parasound 2100 preamp and the balanced outputs to a PS Audio GHCA headphone amp. It worked excellent.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #5220 of 11218 Old 08-11-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Yes. I was doing the exact same thing with the RCA stereo outputs to my Parasound 2100 preamp and the balanced outputs to a PS Audio GHCA headphone amp. It worked excellent.

Bill


Great, thanks Bill
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