Official OPPO BDP-95 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 11147 Old 02-08-2011, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dart383 View Post

I have the 83SE, most of my listening is mch. sacd, dvda, bd. A solid comparison of mch. 83SE vs 95 would be appreciated.
Why didn't OPPO just put the 9018 dacs in the 83SE?

+1 ...... really looking forward to some serious head to head comparisons, especially in the multi-channel arena. My interest is not so much whether the 95 is superior (we all know that it is with it's 9018 vs. the 9006 dacs) but are the differences subtle or are they significant? My wallet on the other hand is fearful of those same reviews.

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post #542 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 04:18 AM
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Does the Linear power supply also supplying the video circuitry or just the audio section?
Is there any body has the photo of the Video boards underneath the audio board? i cannot find it anywhere.
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post #543 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It's the music that does that, not the system. The hardware's job is to NOT get in the way of that, to allow you to have that experience at any volume level and not impart any qualities to it that are not part of the recording or the artist's intent. Reasonable people can disagree about what qualities are part of the recording or intended, but if the system is adding anything it has failed.

I've found that uber-detail often comes at the expense of warmth and naturalness. You can experiment with this by by moving around slightly in your seating position, moving speaker locations slightly, or a combination of both (after you've found the ideal locations). Another issue I've found is that equipment can impart a harsh "digital" (analytical?) sound without being obvious enough to nail it down right away, which can spoil the music.
For example I had an arcam avr200 which had a very low noise floor, great channel seperation, and lots of detail. It was thin sounding, lacking bass. But it replaced a yamaha 3750(I think that's the model, it was the top of the line consumer model a few years back), and the channel seperation, cleanness and detail made it jump out ahead immediately. After a while I noticed that I didn't enjoy listening to music on it no matter how I tried setting things up. It eventually dawned on me that, despite the clear, detailed sound, there was a gritiness to the edges that did not sound natural, and I upgraded to the much, much better avr300.
My point is that sometimes the "musicality" of equipment comes from having the right balance of detail, tone, frequency response, etc. Of course theirs also the issue of symetry of components with each other (including cables!) and with the room, but the bottom line is that one bad or poorly matched piece will throw things off, but keeping all else equal will show the charactoristics of the new piece.
I'm watching with great interest the recent comments on musicality, as I give more credence to the owners on this forum than I do the professional (often biased) reviews.
I'm hoping to get a 95 late spring or so, after seeing how posters here (there are a few very qualified people in this string) like it. Of course I'll be sure to offer my very monotonous, detailed review after I take the plunge

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post #544 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrmf1971 View Post

I wanted to chime in on the sound of the Oppo at this point.

I'm directly comparing the Oppo vs. my Denon 5910ci on different inputs of my pre-amp, using identical media, so i have a consistent benchmark that I keep comparing the Oppo to.

I've been playing the Oppo almost nonstop since Saturday, and I would say, at first, the player was more detailed (clinical?) than musical. I did find the sound fatiguing, and when I would switch to the Denon input, I would appreciate the soundstage of the Denon (which I'll describe in a minute).

Anyway, the musicality of the Oppo has improved by at least 50% (probably more) and the gap is narrowing between both players in the musicality department. I think it's too early to paint a more detailed impression of the player (at least for me). I'm using brand new XLR cables on the player, and between the Oppo and the cables, there are positive changes in sound that have occurred since the weekend.

But in general this is how I would describe the sound: The Oppo has significantly more detail and clarity than I've experienced before. I hear details that never previously caught my attention. This doesn't come at the expense of bass, so I'm not implying an overly bright sound. The bass is strong, clear, and articulate. Timbre seems very accurate. But the music was somewhat 2 dimensional and less involving compared to the Denon, when I listened over the weekend.

Where the Denon appealed more than the Oppo, at first, was in the way it presented audio as a "performance." The Denon has a voicing of the lower mid frequencies and below, in my opinion. This voicing imparts a body to the music, that may not be 100% neutral, but it turns the disc that's spinning in the player into a live performance in front of you. And for a good 75% of discs, it works very well. There are a percentage of discs that sound a bit bloated in my system, though, and I wanted more resolution.

The sound of the Oppo is improving. The musicality is becoming more apparent, but not at the expense of detail, and I hope it improves further over the next week(s). I'm keeping both the Denon and the Oppo in my system until I decide which one I like more for music playback. My goal in getting the Oppo (besides as a first blu-ray player) was in getting a disc player that had more resolution than my Denon. The Oppo is all of that, without question, for me.

So the Oppo is definitely on the right track, but the jury is still out as to whether it presents a satisfying musical experience, compared to what I had. I know its' resolution is outstanding (and kind of addictive). I continue to be optimistic and will drop my opinion in the next week or so. I absolutely feel the Oppo earns a recommendation. It is just a matter of what your musical expectations are, and personally, I'm giving it a little more time (and perhaps a couple of tweaks), before I decide how i feel about its' musical presentation. But at this point, I can't imagine anyone being totally unhappy with it.

Thanks for this review. I am definitely looking forward to what you have to say in a week or two.
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post #545 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dart383 View Post
I have the 83SE, most of my listening is mch. sacd, dvda, bd. A solid comparison of mch. 83SE vs 95 would be appreciated.
Why didn't OPPO just put the 9018 dacs in the 83SE?
A few months ago I received the Marantz AV7005 and found out that the mch. was better than the OPPO 83SE (which was better than my older Denon). Now, the OPPO 95 mch. is better than the Marantz.
As far as a direct comparison, you're the only one who can really do that.
The amount of improvement is dependant on your system. (A system is only as good as its' weakest link.)
Maybe when OPPO was in the early stage of designing the 83SE, the ESS 9018 was not available in sufficient in quantity or at the right price point!??! Maybe they were thinking ahead. If they had done that they wouldn't be selling us any 95's.
In the last year other companies have been modifying, upgrading, copying, the OPPO 83SE (which was also restricted by the original design of the 83). Now, OPPO is copying them! For example, a torodial analog power supply.
I gave my 83SE to my son who is going to be happy with it because his system is not as revealing. In conclusion, OPPO has a 30-day return policy with no re-stocking fee (unlike Wyred4Sound at 15%) so it's not that hard to do your own comparison, in your own system.
P.S. Before, I could see musical instruments being played in the background and hardly hear them, but now with the 95, I don't have to strain to hear them. I'm really enjoying the new sound. There's no more need for me to do any comparisons. I just want to enjoy the music!
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post #546 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ltanzil View Post
Does the Linear power supply also supplying the video circuitry or just the audio section?
Just the analog board Itanzil ; a perceptive question

Quote:
While the main A/V board remains largely the same, the switching power supply adds an AC connector to provide power to the linear power supply for the new high performance audio board.
Found this posted by sunnyboy elsewhere on the quality of the analog board
Quote:
On the power supply to audio board, there are 4 1N400X type of diodes (which makes modification easy), and ELNA 3300 uF, 50V x 4 filtering caps, and after LM317 regulators, there are 6 x ELNA SILMIC 470uF, 25V filtering caps. The raw DC power then feed into the audio board with 2 x ESS 9018 DACs. On this board, all power supplies are regulated again, and each IC/OP amps, power supplies are regulated, decoupled by a 220uF, 25V elco caps by-pass by Wima MKP 0.47 uF, 100V, 5% metalized PP caps. For each OP amps's compensation network, they are all using polystyrene and metal film resistors! Well, probably I should say all resisters are 1/8 W 1% metal film resistors!
http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-pla...ml#post4351093
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post #547 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:34 AM
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Styln came over last night with his 83SE to compare 2 channel audio with the 95.

Bottom line, the 95 sounds noticeably better. Tighter bass and better resolution come to mind as the simplest way to describe the difference in sound. My girlfriend who does not share the passion I have for great sound easily picked the 95 as sounding better.

I have loaned the 95 to Styln for a few days to run more tests. I'm sure he will post additional observations later this week.

In my setup, I hook the 95 directly to a Krell FPB 200C via balanced XLR and drive Wilson Watt Puppies. The sound, as mentioned in a previous post, is very detailed but a little thin for my liking. Styln was nice enough to bring over a Musical Fidelity A3 preamp which, to my surprise, really added body to the music. Detail was not lost and the presentation was warmer and much more pleasant. This seems counter intuitive as I have always thought that you want to keep the signal path as direct as possible.

The interconnects we used to hook up the players to the preamp were of different quality. To fully verify the better sound of the 95, we swapped interconnects between the units and found the 95 sounding better despite cable quality.

In summary, the 95 sounds better than the 83SE. It will be interesting to hear Styln's report. I'm sure listening results will vary depending on the system. Obviously, whether an upgrade makes sense or not depends on the cost assocated with the upgrade. For those on the fence, I would give the 95 a shot. Worst case is that you return the unit in 30 days for a full refund.
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post #548 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:45 AM
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It would not make much sense that the 95 wasn't already on and warmed up when Styln arrived with his SE. I would not venture to run a face to face on equipment where both had not been turned on for at least a couple of hours. There is a noticeable opening to sound staging, high frequencies seem to have more shimmer and cymbal bite starting then, and the overall musicality starts that famous removal of veiled layers TAS often speaks of. Am glad to start seeing some SE vs 95 views, but on my years of listening and upgrading, some time for the players to settle down (and break in still of issue) makes a noticeable difference, even just a few hours especially from dead cold. Just my two and a half cents, and again, hoping to see more shootouts on these two great players. Seems to be quite a time delay in raves about the 95 sound compared to when the SE hit. Analytical is good, musical is better.

Old time audiophile and vinyl collector of various surround sound formats from the 70's sq/qs/cd4 (and even EV)
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post #549 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrmf1971 View Post
I wanted to chime in on the sound of the Oppo at this point.

I'm directly comparing the Oppo vs. my Denon 5910ci on different inputs of my pre-amp, using identical media, so i have a consistent benchmark that I keep comparing the Oppo to.

I've been playing the Oppo almost nonstop since Saturday, and I would say, at first, the player was more detailed (clinical?) than musical. I did find the sound fatiguing, and when I would switch to the Denon input, I would appreciate the soundstage of the Denon (which I'll describe in a minute).

Anyway, the musicality of the Oppo has improved by at least 50% (probably more) and the gap is narrowing between both players in the musicality department. I think it's too early to paint a more detailed impression of the player (at least for me). I'm using brand new XLR cables on the player, and between the Oppo and the cables, there are positive changes in sound that have occurred since the weekend.

But in general this is how I would describe the sound: The Oppo has significantly more detail and clarity than I've experienced before. I hear details that never previously caught my attention. This doesn't come at the expense of bass, so I'm not implying an overly bright sound. The bass is strong, clear, and articulate. Timbre seems very accurate. But the music was somewhat 2 dimensional and less involving compared to the Denon, when I listened over the weekend.

Where the Denon appealed more than the Oppo, at first, was in the way it presented audio as a "performance." The Denon has a voicing of the lower mid frequencies and below, in my opinion. This voicing imparts a body to the music, that may not be 100% neutral, but it turns the disc that's spinning in the player into a live performance in front of you. And for a good 75% of discs, it works very well. There are a percentage of discs that sound a bit bloated in my system, though, and I wanted more resolution.

The sound of the Oppo is improving. The musicality is becoming more apparent, but not at the expense of detail, and I hope it improves further over the next week(s). I'm keeping both the Denon and the Oppo in my system until I decide which one I like more for music playback. My goal in getting the Oppo (besides as a first blu-ray player) was in getting a disc player that had more resolution than my Denon. The Oppo is all of that, without question, for me.

So the Oppo is definitely on the right track, but the jury is still out as to whether it presents a satisfying musical experience, compared to what I had. I know its' resolution is outstanding (and kind of addictive). I continue to be optimistic and will drop my opinion in the next week or so. I absolutely feel the Oppo earns a recommendation. It is just a matter of what your musical expectations are, and personally, I'm giving it a little more time (and perhaps a couple of tweaks), before I decide how i feel about its' musical presentation. But at this point, I can't imagine anyone being totally unhappy with it.
Hve you tried moving the speakers around a bit, or adjusting the toe in, which affects reflections in the room? I'm assuming you have things set up optimally for your old unit.
My brother and I were experimenting with his system, Brysten seperates into PSB stratus golds. We were finding mid bass just slightly bloated so I moved the right speaker about 3 inches forward and everything cleared up wonderfully. The golds need a lot of room but were already off the rear wall about 4 feet.
My point is that minor changes have significant effects on sound. The 95s neutrality might require tweaking of speaker placements that were used to accomodate the previous player.

Oppo BDP-95
Bryston 3B-ST 2ch on mains
Lexicon 512 5ch
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post #550 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa_M View Post
A few months ago I received the Marantz AV7005 and found out that the mch. was better than the OPPO 83SE (which was better than my older Denon). Now, the OPPO 95 mch. is better than the Marantz.
A Marantz AV7005 is a preprocessor that has multichannel inputs. The Oppo's are universal players that have multichannel outputs. How then are you comparing the quality of their respective multichannel capabilities?

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post #551 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mikepos View Post
Hve you tried moving the speakers around a bit, or adjusting the toe in, which affects reflections in the room? I'm assuming you have things set up optimally for your old unit.
My brother and I were experimenting with his system, Brysten seperates into PSB stratus golds. We were finding mid bass just slightly bloated so I moved the right speaker about 3 inches forward and everything cleared up wonderfully. The golds need a lot of room but were already off the rear wall about 4 feet.
My point is that minor changes have significant effects on sound. The 95s neutrality might require tweaking of speaker placements that were used to accomodate the previous player.
That's certainly worth a try, but I'll do that in a week or so. I don't want to mess with the sound I'm used to as I'm comparing players. I decided on speaker placement (toe in, distance from each other) after listening for the best stereo imaging, and I thought I had it reasonably spot on.
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post #552 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Giberson View Post
Styln was nice enough to bring over a Musical Fidelity A3 preamp which, to my surprise, really added body to the music. Detail was not lost and the presentation was warmer and much more pleasant.In summary, the 95 sounds better than the 83SE
thanks for that report. Yes, the Musical Fidelity A3 is a nice sounding integrated amp, I've listened to an A5-CDP/A5 combo at my local boutique shop, I was totally blown away with the beautiful warm, transparent, sound, and using various speakers (ie. B&W CM-Series, etc.,...). It does'nt surprise me that the BDP-95sounded more balanced through the M3.
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post #553 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:28 AM
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Yep, I am looking for one now. The Krell only has balanced and CAST inputs so I was looking for a decent preamp with balanced inputs and outputs. It's difficult to know if using an RCA/XLR adapter with unbalanced RCA will create a degradation in sound quality vs. balanced. If I understand the value of balanced, it has more to do with shielding than sound quality. I guess one could argue that sound quality is a function of good shielding.
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post #554 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:35 AM
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By using an XLR to RCA adapter, as opposed to feeding a full differential XLR input, you won't lose any XLR interference rejection improvement along the cable length compared to normal shielded cable, but you may lose whatever improvement there might be due to the full differential output design of the Oppo's XLR output.
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post #555 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:40 AM
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That's what keeps this hobby interesting. With so many variables, trying to nail cause and effect is like trying to get everyone to agree how they feel about a piece of art. I guess it's all about the ears of the beholder.

Thanks Bob.
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post #556 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
By using an XLR to RCA adapter, as opposed to feeding a full differential XLR input, you won't lose any XLR interference rejection improvement along the cable length compared to normal shielded cable, but you may lose whatever improvement there might be due to the full differential output design of the Oppo's XLR output.
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Would you still get the "hotter" output associated with using the XLR outputs if you used an XLR to RCA adapter???

Thanks.
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post #557 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:08 AM
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I had an Arcam BDP-100 on loan for a review a found myself listening for the entire tracks, which i rarely do when i'm in reviewing mode, and that was from the 2 channel analog cd only.

So the arcam was better than the oppo83SE nuforce, which was supposed to have improved stereo on their D2CH outputs.

I now have a mcintosh MX-150 pre-amp on loan for another review (BTW what a beautifull piece of equipment to have in the rack...) that arrived in perfect sync with the 95's release, and then, gosh, darn,gooly(i used much worst french bad words), the oppo official release date was postponed 1 month and i already have sold the 83, so i'm stuck with a PS3 for HDMi sacd, a toshiba HD-a1, and a lowly pioneer dv-59 (dont remember the exact moel)

I'm very surprised on how good the sacd sound is from the PS3 hdmi out, to the MAC.
Not the best in transparency an all around sound stage focus, but i can cranck the volume much higher than with my former 83SE-NUforce + krell showcase pre-amp.

So i do found that the 83SE is not very musical and a feel some fatigue faster on some material.

No way i'm gonna spend 12k on a pre-pro, so i will be looking for a used mch MAC pre-amp and probably connect it to the 95.
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post #558 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:11 AM
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I have a Krell FPB 300C and KCT preamp. Saturday I got my 95 and am using Audioquest Colorado XLRs to the KCT. I was also trying 4m Audioquest Colorado between my KCT and FPB and didn't care for the sound as much as using the cast cables between the KCT and FPB. End result is that I really like the 95. I am keeping the 95 and 1 meter pair of XLRS, returned the 4m XLR pair.


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Yep, I am looking for one now. The Krell only has balanced and CAST inputs so I was looking for a decent preamp with balanced inputs and outputs. It's difficult to know if using an RCA/XLR adapter with unbalanced RCA will create a degradation in sound quality vs. balanced. If I understand the value of balanced, it has more to do with shielding than sound quality. I guess one could argue that sound quality is a function of good shielding.
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post #559 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:11 AM
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Does the 95 have the exact same feet as the 93? thinking of buying some after market ones.
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post #560 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by xxxxxx View Post
Would you still get the "hotter" output associated with using the XLR outputs if you used an XLR to RCA adapter???

Thanks.
The hotter output just falls out of the way XLR works. The signal is sent two ways, either side of ground. At the other end -- at some point -- the two signals are subtracted leaving one signal that is twice as hot (a - (-a)) = 2a. In dB, that's a +6dB increase.

The theory is that any interference that penetrates the cable shield along the length of the cable will affect both signals the same way, and so the combining at the other end magically subtracts that out. This is why XLR is used in studios where cable runs are much longer than is typical for home theater, and where sources of interference are much more numerous. In home theater, the advantage of XLR over good quality, shielded RCA cable -- purely as regards interference rejection -- can be vanishingly small.

So the answer is, "maybe". It depends on whether the RCA adapter does a simple combine or also halves the output. Although I haven't looked into these in a LONG time, my assumption would be that adapter makers would design them to halve the output so that you don't clip the RCA input you're are plugging them into.

By the way, the idea of the twice as hot signal reducing noise floor should also be taken with a grain of salt since there's inherent noise in both sides of the output signal (according to the quality of the analog output stage), and when they are combined at the other end the result is twice as much noise, just the same way as there is twice as much signal.
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post #561 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:25 AM
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Like others have mentioned, I'm too looking for more input on the sound of the 95 vs the 83se (& hopefully the guys that have posted initial thoughts will add some follow up). Have to admit, I'm a sucker for specs & when I saw the 95 on paper, first thought was time to sell the 83se .

Its sounds like most agree, the 95 will give you all the details but it sounds like reviews might be abit mixed on how "musical" the 95 is. I'm mostly interested how the 95 compares to the 83se as far as how "musical" the player is. Is one player more "analog" sounding vs the other? The extra resolution of the 95 would be nice to have but not sure I want this if its at the expense of sounding more "thin" then the 83se.
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post #562 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelseyhorne View Post

Does the 95 have the exact same feet as the 93? thinking of buying some after market ones.

The best way to check this is probably to send an email to Oppo tech support. If you include the info on the after-market feet you are considering, they might even know if there are any gotchas with those.
--Bob

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post #563 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:30 AM
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By using an XLR to RCA adapter, as opposed to feeding a full differential XLR input, you won't lose any XLR interference rejection improvement along the cable length compared to normal shielded cable, but you may lose whatever improvement there might be due to the full differential output design of the Oppo's XLR output.
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I would stay away from adapters, clean XLR cable is best
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post #564 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:33 AM
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I would stay away from adapters, clean XLR cable is best

The question, I suppose, is if your stereo pre-amp only has RCA inputs, whether you would be better to use the stereo RCA outputs from the 95, or to use its stereo XLR outputs with XLR to RCA adapters at the pre-amp end?

My first inclination would be to stick with RCA interconnect cable of good quality. I don't like adapters.
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post #565 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:41 AM
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The question, I suppose, is if your stereo pre-amp only has RCA inputs, whether you would be better to use the stereo RCA outputs from the 95, or to use its stereo XLR outputs with XLR to RCA adapters at the pre-amp end?

My first inclination would be to stick with RCA interconnect cable of good quality. I don't like adapters.
--Bob

Neither do I
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post #566 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:42 AM
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My Oppo BDP-95 has problems with certain Hard Drive! It just doesn't see them

Apparently a bug that should be fixed
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post #567 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:47 AM
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My Oppo BDP-95 has problems with certain Hard Drive! It just doesn't see them

Apparently a bug that should be fixed

Get the details to Oppo tech support.

If the drive in question is an eSATA drive, be aware that the eSATA connection, unlike the USB connection, is not "hot pluggable". That means you have to power things off before plugging or unplugging the eSATA connection for it to work right.

This can also be a problem if your eSATA drive is set to "standby" mode where it doesn't fully power up until it is accessed. The drive may implement this powering up as a "hot plug insertion", which means the Oppo won't see the drive. Try changing the setting in your eSATA drive to "always on".

------------------------------------

Also, quite a few people have attempted to use USB and eSATA connections from DLNA media server boxes. Such connections do NOT present the media server box as a disk drive to the Oppo. Instead, they are used for extending the capacity of the media server itself -- or possibly for backing up content in the server. You can't use them to provide a USB or eSATA direct disk drive connection to the Oppo.
--Bob

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post #568 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:55 AM
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My first inclination would be to stick with RCA interconnect cable of good quality. I don't like adapters.
--Bob[/quote]

+2 I agree. According to OPPO, XLR to RCA will add distortion and may give you a warmer sound.
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post #569 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:58 AM
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Yes it does in fact the remote is the same as the 95.


I will have my BDP-95 next [within 1 ft] to my BDP-83. I have the mod kit in my bd-83 and it's really not worth getting another kit for the 95 when I have far less money invested in region B and C discs then the mod cost in the first place.

Given that will the remote being the same be an issue. Meaning will each button press actually take effect on both units at same time? If so is there anything I can do to prevent that from the remote/Oppo unit point of view?
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post #570 of 11147 Old 02-09-2011, 10:59 AM
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"According to OPPO, XLR to RCA will add distortion and may give you a warmer sound."

You specifically asked Oppo tech about this?

Thanks.
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